Over Powered healing killing PvP

[Astarica]

Cash shop and pay to win are already detailed for this game. Also, their "open world" pvp is just an instanced battleground.

 

Yeah, and it's hardly surprising because it takes big money to pull off everything they claim to deliver so if they did succeed, of course they want big money back, unless for some reason the guys at ArenaNet don't want money. They might actually succeed, but people thinking GW2 is going to be some kind of savior to MMORPG and actually free to play would be in for a shock. A game that saved the world from WoW will expect WoW's money for pulling that off.

[fungihoujo]

Grats OP! BW proves once again their metrics are a measurement of forum QQ- healing from expertise has been nerfed.

 

Yaaaaay! QQ nerfs ftw!

[Astarica]

If a healer outheals your DPS, you are simply bad. Really. Melee have NO difficulty outDPSing my heals using a couple of cc's at their disposal. As a sorc healer I've got whatever the equivilant of 700 force power is in healing. It's a bit less in my PvP gear, but after expertise it's not much. Healers can't heal if you stop their skills.

 

Every class has interrupts, stuns, mezzes, knockbacks. USE THEM. Stop being bad. I am leveling a marauder. He's 28 now. I solo healers of all classes most of the time I try (in 10-49's). Some of the better ones take longer, but I've got tools to wear him down if left alone with him. Sometimes I lose. That's okay. Healers aren't supposed to be walking batteries.

 

Merc healers are pretty surviviable, but you should not, 1 vs 1, be able to get out HPS'd by any healer one on one unless you're simply a facerolling dps masher who's only adequate with following an optimized DPS button sequence.

 

Now, if you want to complain about not being able to 2v2 2 healers as 2 dpsers, that argument I'll hear. Although I'm not sure exactly how those two healers would actually kill you two if they are focused on just healing whoever's taking damage. It'd take a good while, I suspect.

 

Actually most healers are quite capable of outhealing one DPS if they do nothing but heal themselves. Of course, in that case you literally have no chance of losing and it'll still just be a matter of time before that guy finally runs out of whatever resource he has.

 

A DPS can comfortably defeat the HPS from a healer who is actually trying to defend himself instead of just trying to delay his death for as long as possible. Some healers can delay their death for a very long time. I had an Op healer that just ran around the field in Huttball casting instant heals on himself while running away and using various LoS/elevation tricks and it took minutes before finally killing that guy. I'm pretty sure he didn't do anything else useful in the whole fight but it sure took forever to finally kill him. But then you shouldn't be mad that you're fighting someone who literally has no chance of beating you even if it takes a long time.

[EndlessObsession]

Signed. Healers are OP and everyone knows it. Teams are exploiting this with 3 heals vs 1 or maybe none. WZ victory's are determined by the amount of healers on each team rather than teamwork, skill, and composition (and a pinch of gear for flavor). This is nothing but frustrating and a griefers paradise. They either need nerfing or WZ's need to have a matchmaking system which ensures both sides have an equal amount of healers. 1v1, 0v0, 3v3... not 3v1 or none. It's ridiculous how OP they are.

[EndlessObsession]

If a healer outheals your DPS, you are simply bad. Really. Melee have NO difficulty outDPSing my heals using a couple of cc's at their disposal. As a sorc healer I've got whatever the equivilant of 700 force power is in healing. It's a bit less in my PvP gear, but after expertise it's not much. Healers can't heal if you stop their skills.

 

Every class has interrupts, stuns, mezzes, knockbacks. USE THEM. Stop being bad. I am leveling a marauder. He's 28 now. I solo healers of all classes most of the time I try (in 10-49's). Some of the better ones take longer, but I've got tools to wear him down if left alone with him. Sometimes I lose. That's okay. Healers aren't supposed to be walking batteries.

 

Merc healers are pretty surviviable, but you should not, 1 vs 1, be able to get out HPS'd by any healer one on one unless you're simply a facerolling dps masher who's only adequate with following an optimized DPS button sequence.

 

Now, if you want to complain about not being able to 2v2 2 healers as 2 dpsers, that argument I'll hear. Although I'm not sure exactly how those two healers would actually kill you two if they are focused on just healing whoever's taking damage. It'd take a good while, I suspect.

 

^ Obvious healer

 

Sorry but I'm a full BM geared focus guardian, I know how to play my class and I can't come close to solo'ing or shutting down a good healer, I can bother a bad one but not outdamage. The problem as well is that they synergize too well. It's one thing to have 1 healer, but 2 or 3 in the same area is ridiculously OP.

[HellFlame]

^ Obvious healer

 

Sorry but I'm a full BM geared focus guardian, I know how to play my class and I can't come close to solo'ing or shutting down a good healer, I can bother a bad one but not outdamage. The problem as well is that they synergize too well. It's one thing to have 1 healer, but 2 or 3 in the same area is ridiculously OP.

 

Well you cant say that healers are OP just because stacking them is OP. Thats two different things. If you nerf healers now that "one thing" called 1 healer would be totally useless and that ur always forced to have 2-3 healers.

[LancelotOC]

^ Obvious healer

 

Sorry but I'm a full BM geared focus guardian, I know how to play my class and I can't come close to solo'ing or shutting down a good healer, I can bother a bad one but not outdamage. The problem as well is that they synergize too well. It's one thing to have 1 healer, but 2 or 3 in the same area is ridiculously OP.

 

I hope for the day when tanks realise they are healers themselves.

 

All these pleas for tanks to be able to kill people and have high survivabilty are the same as healers saying they want to kill people and be able to out heal people dpsing them.

 

There should be no Rock Paper Scizor type balancing in any game because people cant accept they will loose when they play with too many Scizors against too many Rocks.

 

The balancing should simply be tanks = healers > slightly over DPS if given endless time.

 

I really think people can't wrap their heads around the balancing because the numbers are too big. To make it simple if your ability does 5 damage and a healer can heal for 6 damage and people have 20 hitpoints the solution is hit a guy with 4 people where you one shot him. So the healer cant heal at all.

 

This is moreso true if heals take longer to cast than damage, have forceback, can be interupted, require the healer to be in LOS, require the healer to be in range.. etc .. etc.

 

Healers and healing will never be OP unless people start having more hitpoints/mitigation than a few DPS people can put out before a healer can cast a heal.

 

This is a group game and balancing for groups means people will assist. You have to balance to that regardless if there are countless people that cant understand they need to assist and think its about 1 on 1. At the same time you have to make it where playing tanks/healers makes sence instaed of a DPS.

 

Just my humble opionion. I've never developed a game I've just played many of them so maybe I'm wrong.

[EndlessObsession]

I definitely understand what you're saying, I have both taunts consistently on cooldown and use soresu form w/ guard more often than shii-cho (even though I'm focus). I'm well aware of how powerful these defensive tools can be. However, I am very easy to kill. Additionally, to make up for having these useful abilities, even though I'm technically a DPS spec I put out about 1/4 the damage of a pure DPS like sents/maras or other pure dpsers. Healers should be able to out heal DPS, but what they can do now is definitely more than they should. I think one solution would be to make more abilities interrupt them? Right now, 2 "good" healers who know what they are doing are nearly impossible to kill. I've seen single merc healers tank 2 sentinals, myself, and a gunslinger for an indefinite amount of time. We were all interrupting and knocking him back, however he just really knew how to play his class. The dev's worded it well, some of them are significantly outperforming the target output that they were designed to do. WZ's simply shouldn't be decided by how many healers you have, but by your cooperation, performance, composition, and gear.

[Harden]

OH come on, if you cannot kill a healer then YOU SUCK at playing you're class!! I can kill a Jedi Sage or Jedi Sorcerer specced to healing with my Jedi Shadow no problem! It is you're inability to learn how to kill them or use you're class that is why u cannot kill them!!

When i was playing Star Wars Galaxies my Elder Jedi was the most feared Medic killer on the server, because i knew how to kill the Medic's, and i even had the hardest medic on the server say she feared me when i came after her because she knew i was the only one who could kill her!

So go complain you cannot kill a healer some place else, and that their heals are over-powering because ya not playing ya class right, or better yet when you are trying to kill a healer have the team ya with also try and help, because that might be why you cannot kill them because the team is trying to fight the other people and not the healer!!

[islander]

Well it looked good to me from what videos I have been watching. To each to their own.

 

April 10th cant come fast enough....give me the pre-purchase with all the beta fixings!!

 

we'll see you back here in June, then.

[islander]

I'm a combat medic trooper, champ gear only, and I get roflstomped 1v1 sometimes, other times I can survive 1v2, and others I can keep a tanky friend and myself up against 3-4 for a while, but it all depends on CDs, skill and timing.

 

If you can't kill a healer by yourself, stop whining and go practice. When I'm playing in DPS spec, I can kill a healer 1v1 no problem - again, I have no BM gear, and im talking about fights against people sporting their fancy "War Hero" titles.

 

Healing is in no way OP. healers should be able to prevent deaths of allies. That's their intended purpose.

 

Exactly what I'm saying. Any DPS that cant kill a similarly geared healer is simply bad at their craft.

[islander]

^ Obvious healer

 

Sorry but I'm a full BM geared focus guardian, I know how to play my class and I can't come close to solo'ing or shutting down a good healer, I can bother a bad one but not outdamage. The problem as well is that they synergize too well. It's one thing to have 1 healer, but 2 or 3 in the same area is ridiculously OP.

 

Now now, note when I said having 2 healers spamming each other was an argument I'd here. They DO synergize well. Arguably too well.

 

But if you can't solo one, that's pretty bad. You've got to interrupt them intelligently. Sorc can't heal and move. Everything they do can be interrupted.

 

Sorc have weak DPS when they aren't busy outhealing you. I can't speak first hand for Mercs.

 

Yes, I'm a healer, and I get killed by good melee players. Part of it is sometimes I realize it's simply smarter for me to die in the bigger picture - this varies moment by moment. Really though, my DPS output is so pathetic that it'd take me a long time to shock/forcelightning/dot one down.

 

If I want to, I can escape from one without much difficulty. It just depends, again, on what I'm doing. If I think it's smarter to keep someone upright because they are 6 seconds from the huttball goal, then I'll eat the death and make sure the ball carrier crosses the line. Dying in warzones really doesn't matter.

Edited March 31, 2012 by islander

[islander]

Signed. Healers are OP and everyone knows it. Teams are exploiting this with 3 heals vs 1 or maybe none. WZ victory's are determined by the amount of healers on each team rather than teamwork, skill, and composition (and a pinch of gear for flavor). This is nothing but frustrating and a griefers paradise. They either need nerfing or WZ's need to have a matchmaking system which ensures both sides have an equal amount of healers. 1v1, 0v0, 3v3... not 3v1 or none. It's ridiculous how OP they are.

 

On this note, did it occur to you to maybe bring another healer yourself?

 

Now you're crying that one team has more healers then the other.

How dare they do that!!!

 

Only on the Bioware forums does an 8 man team having 2 more healers then the other constitute 'exploiting'.

 

My head is going to explode now.

[ShakesMcQueen]

I LOL'd at the sniper not being able to kill a healer. The only thing ANY class healer can do with an equally geared/skilled sniper focusing them is LOS (or vanish if smug/op) and then the healer is removed from his role anyway. Snipers melt healers plain and simple.

 

This is "plain and simply" not true. We can melt Sages/Sorcs through controlled burst DPS, but we absolutely do NOT "melt" heavily armored healing classes, unless they've been thoroughly debuffed by other players. My hypothetical situation was 1v1. Most of a snipers talents are white damage, which means they are fully mitigated by every form of defense and armor - against classes with heavy armor, this amounts to a significant decrease in damage taken.

 

I should add that I'm not some unwashed noob to this class - I'm a Rank 68 Battlemaster.

 

And as I said at the time, this isn't even really a gripe. I'm weak against some classes, and incredibly strong against others - like every class. My point was that this game isn't balanced on a class-v-class-v-class basis. It's more of a rock-paper-scissors type of balance. The fact that rock takes scissors, doesn't make rock overpowered. However, it can lead to the occasional circumstance where a team of mostly rocks is playing against a team of mostly scissors. But that's a matchmaking issue, not a balance one.

 

I can easily kill some Commando players - it depends on their skill level relative to mine, and whether teammates have already debuffed them. But all things being equal, a hybrid specced Commando will always beat me. At least prior to Update 1.2.

Edited March 31, 2012 by ShakesMcQueen

[TDRedmage]

^ Obvious healer

 

Sorry but I'm a full BM geared focus guardian, I know how to play my class and I can't come close to solo'ing or shutting down a good healer, I can bother a bad one but not outdamage. The problem as well is that they synergize too well. It's one thing to have 1 healer, but 2 or 3 in the same area is ridiculously OP.

 

This is what I'm talking about.

 

Your class is good at shutting them down so that your team mates can kill them. You're loaded with abilities that healers hate. Your interrupt interrupts, your charge interrupts, your stun interrupts, your force push interrupts, your force choke interrupts, did I miss anything?

 

You shut him down, your team kills. Keyword: TEAM

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about, people fixated on 1v1 in an 8v8 game. They don't work together and they fail. Then they come on here anc cry about how they should be able to solo everything. This is why you fail, and why you deserve to fail.

[Gnotong]

signed!

[rweiowjerwei]

Signed

[LillyWhiteS]

Got to laugh at threads like this and some of the comments...

 

Take Combat Medics and the shield, it stops a minority of CC, just interrupts, a small window where you are immune is very much needed, you are on the end of enough of them as it is for the majority of time it's down, most CC still works with it up.

 

You also have to spend 3 skill points to make it better aswell, it HAS to be worth it.

 

Any decent team can stop you getting any more than a heal or two off with it up and it's on a long CD, it's not that bad, only poorly played teams and some pugs would think it's bad.

 

Combat Medics are one of the worst one v one classes as it is, before the nerfs even come into effect, you can be shut down easily and have no escape ability, certain death against certain classes, with gear and talent being equal.

 

I would agree you shouldn't get say 5 healers in a WZ, but that isn't the healers fault and nerfs shouldn't happen because of that, limit how many healers can be in a WZ, to three at most, so you could have one of each class.

 

What is killing the game from a PvP perspective, is having WZ as the main PvP, it's secondary and for variety at best, you need the big scale PvP that goes for hours, like in Warhammer with forts and stuff, raiding an enemy city as reward, but improved upon from mistakes made in that game.

 

Warzones are too repetative, is because you have no other option, they are getting played more than they would if you had working world PvP.

[EndlessObsession]

This is what I'm talking about.

 

Your class is good at shutting them down so that your team mates can kill them. You're loaded with abilities that healers hate. Your interrupt interrupts, your charge interrupts, your stun interrupts, your force push interrupts, your force choke interrupts, did I miss anything?

 

You shut him down, your team kills. Keyword: TEAM

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about, people fixated on 1v1 in an 8v8 game. They don't work together and they fail. Then they come on here anc cry about how they should be able to solo everything. This is why you fail, and why you deserve to fail.

 

I guess BW is nerfing heals for no reason then? I'm not talking specifically about 1v1, the main problem is that 2 good healers can become nearly invincible while healing eachother and their team. As a guardian (focus) I have some great abilities for stalling a healer, and no I don't expect to solo kill him. But I do feel that myself and 4 other DPS specs all focusing 1 healer should be able to quickly dispatch him, regardless of whether he has offheals. They simply have too much survivability and healing output. I'm not the one making the changes, BW is. So if it was really a L2P issue like some of you are suggesting, why are they nerfing heals? Because of the vocal minority? ROFL

[EndlessObsession]

Additionally, some people have a life and don't get to form elite PVP groups. My friends actually have families and jobs, and the people on my server who are good enough to premade with are spread too thin. So I don't have the luxury of rolling with my healbot friends 24/7. The answer to an imbalance is not "take advantage of it yourself". And to the idiot who only understands one meaning of the word exploit... I wasn't saying group healing is AN exploit, I said they're "exploiting" (verb - to take advantage of) the power and synergy of multiple heals. Mark my words, rated groups will run 3 heals because it's stupid ridiculous. Some of you people are so damn stupid and close minded narrow sighted. L2spell, talk, speak, read, etc. Words in the english language have more than one meaning depending on the context.

[fungihoujo]

Time to roll the wheel of nerf! The whiners have spoken! Nerf nerf nerf so the bads can feel a bit better!

 

Where will the wheel land next?

[TheNegotiator]

Just had another run of super-healers again today. Unkillable sorcerers in Alderaan and Huttball. Alderaaan was a blowout and Hutt Ball was 6-0. Why even bother showing up in these warzones if you focus fire 4 people on a sorcerer and they laugh as they heal not only themselves but also their group.

[TDRedmage]

Additionally, some people have a life and don't get to form elite PVP groups. My friends actually have families and jobs, and the people on my server who are good enough to premade with are spread too thin. So I don't have the luxury of rolling with my healbot friends 24/7. The answer to an imbalance is not "take advantage of it yourself". And to the idiot who only understands one meaning of the word exploit... I wasn't saying group healing is AN exploit, I said they're "exploiting" (verb - to take advantage of) the power and synergy of multiple heals. Mark my words, rated groups will run 3 heals because it's stupid ridiculous. Some of you people are so damn stupid and close minded narrow sighted. L2spell, talk, speak, read, etc. Words in the english language have more than one meaning depending on the context.

 

They're nerfing the broken parts. Scoundrel heals are getting a pretty big buff. I suppose your next qq post will be about how you can't solo scoundrels?

[fungihoujo]

Just had another run of super-healers again today. Unkillable sorcerers in Alderaan and Huttball. Alderaaan was a blowout and Hutt Ball was 6-0. Why even bother showing up in these warzones if you focus fire 4 people on a sorcerer and they laugh as they heal not only themselves but also their group.

 

Every single heal they have has a cast time except for a small HoT- try putting that interrupt ability on your hotbar and you'll find out what it does.

[HellionX]

The nerf ball bat to healing will have serious repercussions that will kill SWtOR completely, Wonderful that the pvp'ers got their way though. I'm sure you will be quite miserable when you have no heals playing anymore. Don't forget ... your DPS / Tank classes kinda need heals to well ya know ... not die .... morons?

 

I can understand how mad you get though when your fingers hurt from hitting all those colorful buttons and not being able to kill something in under 5 seconds ... must be a horrible feeling ...

 

enjoy being farmed because all the healers quit ....

 

On a side note MMORPG's are not really about PVP .... Want PVP maybe go play an FPS? Wat Think?

Edited April 1, 2012 by HellionX