Over Powered healing killing PvP

[vulup]

This is exactly how it is. If you're a tank, you cannot kill a healer.

 

Rock, papper, sissors.

 

Please noobs, learn it. Tank > Dps > Healer > Tank.

 

That's why all you bads crying are juggs. You're not designed to kill a healer, you're designed to soak damage. This will never be changed, and if it bothers you, you should reroll to a dps class that is designed to kill healers with healing debuffs and interrupts.

 

It's incredibly easy. My deception sin was very good at it until he specced darkness and only the best healers can still survive him without the necessary tools.

 

If anything, healing is underpowered in this game. You have a 30% handicap vs healers, what more do you want? WoW didn't even have that.

 

 

who in their right mind would rock a full tanking set as a tanked specced jugg right now?

 

Tank specced Juggs are pretty lackluster outside of preforms right now

 

Jugg tanks not darkness asssasins

 

I am not tank specced mate

 

 

Here is the thing - i can sit on a good healer and take him out of the fight for a good long time but i cant kill him

 

I can only kill a stupid healer and take him out of the fight for good

 

and i cant kill a healer if another healer is there to cross heal

 

just wonderful right

 

and i am talking about people with equivelant gear not some scrub with 14k health

 

and yes, sorry to dissapoint, jugg dps works but a healer wont just stand there and take it.

Edited March 29, 2012 by vulup

[Khoraji]

I just don't know how much expertise will be possible, it should be at least 25% from what I've seen.

 

Other that I don't need to test. We know the reason trauma exists, I'd you have healing bonus close/equal/greater then trauma then its broken. That simple.

 

How is it broken if your gear is close to it? That makes no sense. It is still a -30% healing debuff.

[voigt]

So you want to punish players for being a healer by slowing their queues compared to others. Also, what do you do in a group situation, people queue up with 2 healers (a smart thing to do to ensure that they have healers for their WZ), but then there are no healers queuing on the other side, so their group gets stuck in a queue. This wouldn't work within a single server environment.

 

If you want another healer in your WZ, group up with one and queue. In 1.2 you will be able to form a full premade so you can have as many healers as you want. However, you will learn that coordinated dps > healers.

 

The intent isn't to punish anyone but yes I agree it will work better with cross-server queues, in the mean time, not doing this inversely punishes teams with no healers to fight teams with 3 healers. Its not fair either way but in one scenario (balanced healers) its more fair then just allowing randomness to determine if your side is going to have a chance or not. 80-90% of my WZ queues are huttball, it would be easy to just balance teams by putting healers on both sides when setting up the teams. Its a bit more difficult with Empire vs Republic but yeah you could skip some healers from joining the current match but give them priority on the next match in the queue.

[MrXen]

Niktika: Can you please explain some of the reasoning behind the healing nerfs? It almost seems like every healer is up in arms regardless of their class.

 

Georg: Sometimes it's hard to hear this, but the change to healers you're referring to was, quite simply, a result of them being too good.

 

 

Argument over.

[Khoraji]

I am not a tank mate

 

 

Here is the thing - i can sit on a good healer and take him out of the fight for a good long time but i cant kill him

 

I can only kill a stupid healer and take him out of the fight for good

 

and i cant kill a healer if another healer is there to cross heal

 

just wonderful right regardless of whether they just stand there and take it

 

This is how it is supposed to be. You can't kill a good healer 1v1? Well guess what, they can't kill you either while they are healing themselves from your damage. If a good dps can kill a good healer 1v1..something is wrong. It should be a stalemate with a slight advantage to healing. There would be no point to healing if a single DPS could take them out.

[JustTray]

who in their right mind would rock a full tanking set as a tanked specced jugg right now?

 

Tank specced Juggs are pretty lackluster outside of preforms right now

 

Jugg tanks not darkness asssasins

 

I am not tank specced mate

 

 

Here is the thing - i can sit on a good healer and take him out of the fight for a good long time but i cant kill him

 

I can only kill a stupid healer and take him out of the fight for good

 

and i cant kill a healer if another healer is there to cross heal

 

just wonderful right

 

and i am talking about people with equivelant gear not some scrub with 14k health

 

and yes, sorry to dissapoint, jugg dps works but a healer wont just stand there and take it.

 

Jugg is not a dps class. That's your problem. Reroll. Jugg is a tank class, and even with a dps spec, is a hybrid tank/dps, and cannot kill a good healer 1v1. This is by design.

 

Now that you have proven me 100% correct I will leave assuming you finally get it. I strongly suggest maruader, assassin, or operative as your new class for much less QQ.

 

P.S. Also before you start - no I don't care that you want to play the class y ou think looks coolest. You don't get to have everything. If you want to be able to kill healers, pick a class that is supposed to kill healers and stop crying about not having every tool on the bad class you chose to roll for poor reasons.

Edited March 29, 2012 by JustTray

[vulup]

This is how it is supposed to be. You can't kill a good healer 1v1? Well guess what, they can't kill you either while they are healing themselves from your damage. If a good dps can kill a good healer 1v1..something is wrong. It should be a stalemate with a slight advantage to healing. There would be no point to healing if a single DPS could take them out.

 

Silly argument i keep seeing on these forums - usually coming from other healers - I should be able to kill one if i play it right

 

turning it into a 2v1 situation where two dps have to sit on a healer to kill them puts my team at a huge disadvantage while we focus down a healer, making them a hell of a lot more useful than any dps at that point.

 

Heck a friend of mine can occupy three dps as a sorc healer if he uses his CCs and other tools right

[Bnol]

The intent isn't to punish anyone but yes I agree it will work better with cross-server queues, in the mean time, not doing this inversely punishes teams with no healers to fight teams with 3 healers. Its not fair either way but in one scenario (balanced healers) its more fair then just allowing randomness to determine if your side is going to have a chance or not. 80-90% of my WZ queues are huttball, it would be easy to just balance teams by putting healers on both sides when setting up the teams. Its a bit more difficult with Empire vs Republic but yeah you could skip some healers from joining the current match but give them priority on the next match in the queue.

 

Except that you can ensure that your WZ has at least 1 healer by inviting a healer and group queuing (you could even grab 3 and queue with them!). Instead of taking the initiative and solving the no healer problem yourself, you want the game to punish healers, with longer queues to ensure your 2 healer limit, because you can't be bothered to /friend them and queue with them.

 

The only WZ that you need healers is Voidstar. You can win Huttball and Alderaan without healers.

[vulup]

Jugg is not a dps class. That's your problem. Reroll. Jugg is a tank class, and even with a dps spec, is a hybrid tank/dps, and cannot kill a good healer 1v1. This is by design.

 

Now that you have proven me 100% correct I will leave assuming you finally get it. I strongly suggest maruader, assassin, or operative as your new class for much less QQ.

 

sorry just no - we have a dps tree

 

this outdated Vanilla WoW falicy is , well , outdated

 

ill prove it to you once parses go live in 1.2

Edited March 29, 2012 by vulup

[teyngodown]

Made up numbers are made up.

 

If you counted the trauma debuff in the first numbers why was the healer not healing for 800 while the DPS (not affected by trauma) was at 1000 DPS?

 

Unless your point is that we need to remove trauma from the game so healers start out equal to DPS in PvP.

 

I'm glad you can't read because i stated that the debuf was already taken into account meaning that the healer would heal for more in a pve environment AKA outside of a pvp scenario.

 

And to anyone that is looking at stat scaling over time verses a direct % increase is crazy. If someone asked you to choose between have a 20% bonus to your primary stat and endurance, or a 20% bonus to damage/damage reduction which would you pick?

[JustTray]

Silly argument i keep seeing on these forums - usually coming from other healers - I should be able to kill one if i play it right

 

turning it into a 2v1 situation where two dps have to sit on a healer to kill them puts my team at a huge disadvantage while we focus down a healer, making them a hell of a lot more useful than any dps at that point.

 

Heck a friend of mine can occupy three dps as a sorc healer if he uses his CCs and other tools right

 

No, you should not. Your class does not beat healers 1v1. This will not change ever. See my above. You're arguing a non-point.

 

Your argument is, "any dps class should be able to kill a healer if they do it right." You can see clearly how this is flawed as there would be no balance if this were true.

[vulup]

No, you should not. Your class does not beat healers 1v1. This will not change ever. See my above. You're arguing a non-point.

 

Your argument is, "any dps class should be able to kill a healer if they do it right." You can see clearly how this is flawed as there would be no balance if this were true.

 

Its pretty simple really - your philosopy makes healers way too useful in a 8v8 setting - i should be able to if done right (a) lock healers down (b) with some luck kill them

 

right now (a) i can lock a healer down to die eventually (b) not even do that if another healer is present

 

One healer should not be able to occupy two - three people, turning a wz into a 5 v 7 situation for your team

Edited March 29, 2012 by vulup

[JustTray]

sorry just no - we have a dps tree

 

this outdated Vanilla WoW falicy is , well , outdated

 

ill prove it to you once parses go live in 1.2

 

So because you have a dps tree your class should be able to kill healers 1v1? Every class has a dps tree. Therefore every class should be able to kill healers 1v1. Good logic.

 

Stay in school. Stop posting too please. You are clearly not old enough, nor experienced enough, to follow the basic logic in this thread and so I kindly ask you to stop or embarrass yourself further.

[Bnol]

Silly argument i keep seeing on these forums - usually coming from other healers - I should be able to kill one if i play it right

 

turning it into a 2v1 situation where two dps have to sit on a healer to kill them puts my team at a huge disadvantage while we focus down a healer, making them a hell of a lot more useful than any dps at that point.

 

Heck a friend of mine can occupy three dps as a sorc healer if he uses his CCs and other tools right

 

I see this a lot coming from dps, that they think they should be able to kill a healer, who is only healing, 1v1. What the argument tends to miss is that the healer is not killing you in the stalemate scenario. If a healer cannot keep himself alive versus 1 dps while only healing (and CCing to counter dps CC), then there is no point in bringing a healer, you would be better off with another dps

[vulup]

So because you have a dps tree your class should be able to kill healers 1v1? Every class has a dps tree. Therefore every class should be able to kill healers 1v1. Good logic.

 

Stay in school. Stop posting too please. You are clearly not old enough, nor experienced enough, to follow the basic logic in this thread and so I kindly ask you to stop or embarrass yourself further.

 

see my above post and stop ignoring valid points because it suits you

[JustTray]

Its pretty simple really - your philosopy makes healers way too useful in a 8v8 setting

 

You can't define "way too useful" that is a subjective term.

 

Yes, healers are useful. They have to be, or no one would play them.

 

The basic crux is healing will always out heal dps, or no one will heal. It's so basic that I can't make it anymore simple than that.

 

If you want to have a game where there are no healers, play a different game. Why do you expect this game to change to suit you? Reroll your tank class to a dps class.

[JustTray]

see my above post and stop ignoring valid points because it suits you

 

You don't have ANY valid points.

 

I'm serious. You don't. - list them out. I'll show you why they're not valid individually, even though I already have in the last 3 posts.

Edited March 29, 2012 by JustTray

[vulup]

I see this a lot coming from dps, that they think they should be able to kill a healer, who is only healing, 1v1. What the argument tends to miss is that the healer is not killing you in the stalemate scenario. If a healer cannot keep himself alive versus 1 dps while only healing (and CCing to counter dps CC), then there is no point in bringing a healer, you would be better off with another dps

 

makes healers too useful

 

what a lot of people miss is that a good team should train whoever is on a healer down

 

allowing a healer to occupy 2 dps before dying is a horrible solution in a 8v 8 setting

Edited March 29, 2012 by vulup

[Khoraji]

Silly argument i keep seeing on these forums - usually coming from other healers - I should be able to kill one if i play it right

 

turning it into a 2v1 situation where two dps have to sit on a healer to kill them puts my team at a huge disadvantage while we focus down a healer, making them a hell of a lot more useful than any dps at that point.

 

Heck a friend of mine can occupy three dps as a sorc healer if he uses his CCs and other tools right

 

Tell me what the point of bringing a healer with you is if any DPS can just take them 1v1? Why would anyone choose a healer over a DPS for their group?

 

2v1'ing the healer only puts your team at a disadvantage if your team doesn't have a healer...which again.. is as it should be.

[fungihoujo]

Any game that allows a single healer to outheal a DPS is basically unbalanced. Theoretically you can add any number of healers and any number of DPS (e.g. 4 healer vs 4 dps) and the healers will always eventually win because healers still have damage abilities.

 

Combine that fact with guard specs in this game and healers are nearly unstoppable.

 

I have seen many, many WZs where the enemy team has 3 healers and a couple tanks and they are literally invincible. Against a team of DPS, healer/tank combos win every time. SWTOR further pushes this fact because all classes have damage capabilities. This ensures that normally weak attackers like tanks still kill dps.

 

I feel there is some balancing that needs to be done in WZs whether it be an automatic 20% healing debuff or a tank/healer limit.

 

Utterly wrong- since healing is reactive, interruptable and pressurable- any game where dps can outdps a healer is extremely broken. Considering how long dps classes can shut down a healer- when you don't do anything for 6 seconds, you've got 6 sec of 0 HPS against a dps with 6 sec of 2k dps or so.

[Daayz]

so bring a healer or two with a tank or two to guard them??

 

can't do pve raids without healers / tanks don't see why pvp with ALL DPS should be better than a well balanced group of healers, tanks, and dps.

[Toonicker]

In a previous game of mine, it was possible to go full Reaction stat (adds to Defense and +5 to HP each stat point) and still heal in abundance if you played your cards right with how you filled out your gear. I can't say Star Wars even remotely reminds me of this.

 

I'm a Sage healer, therefore, my armor is the lowest there is. I am also more often than not the only healer in a Warzone, whether I queued solo or not. It's frustrating when someone marks me, and more frustrating when a tank can do little to lessen the amount of damage coming at me. Interrupts are used against me very often, too. Generally, when myself or the tank are targeted by 3-4 from the opposing team, I can do little to keep either of us alive when every other healing ability I use is either rendered useless for a few seconds or interrupted altogether while I am stunned or knocked back. I am left with very little room for me to try and keep everyone else alive, and they are being hit for a hell of a lot of damage, too.

 

I've had some great Warzones where this isn't the case, too. I've been able to heal unhindered for the entire game before.

 

Each PvP instance is always a little bit different than the last. I'm useful in one WZ, made useless in the next by an extremely well-coordinated team. I consistently power out at least 400k heals in Warzones and it does not always makes a difference. I'm either in a team with bad coordination, too little DPS, or 3-4 healers (rare) that yes, can keep everyone alive but cannot move forward with objectives because they cannot kill anyone fast enough to complete it. I do not think anything needs to change with heals at this time. Utilizing my CCs, my LoS and tanks with me, I'm still quite far from being invincible.

 

The only thing I'm worried about with healing right now is whether or not I'll ever be chosen for ranked WZs over a heavy healer

 

^^ this, agree 100% because on my Sorc healer I experience the EXACT same thing.

[vulup]

You can't define "way too useful" that is a subjective term.

 

Yes, healers are useful. They have to be, or no one would play them.

 

The basic crux is healing will always out heal dps, or no one will heal. It's so basic that I can't make it anymore simple than that.

 

If you want to have a game where there are no healers, play a different game. Why do you expect this game to change to suit you? Reroll your tank class to a dps class.

 

oh please i defined it in another post

 

three times is the charm?

 

"way too useful" - a healer takes two dps + to kill / take out of the fight putting a team with less healers at a numerical disadvantage

[Khoraji]

oh please i defined it in another post

 

three times is the charm?

 

"way too useful" - a healer takes two dps + to kill / take out of the fight putting a team with less healers at a numerical disadvantage

 

Like i said.. this is only a disadvantage if your team is too stupid to have a healer as well. If we took your suggestions, it would just be 8dps vs 8dps in all pvp matches.

 

Diversity in groups should be encouraged, and the only way to make healers useful is to make sure they can survive 1v1 long enough to get help...or else DPS are more useful in almost every single situation.

[vulup]

You don't have ANY valid points.

 

I'm serious. You don't. - list them out. I'll show you why they're not valid individually, even though I already have in the last 3 posts.

 

of course they are invalid since you believe healing in swotor is balanced - i made my points.

 

call them what you will but healing, as it stands in swotor, is, in objective based pvp, not balanced

 

why the heck do you think we see 3+ healers on all preforms