Over Powered healing killing PvP

[LoKiei]

In equal situations the purpose of healing is to totally prevent death. I'm sorry we disagree.

 

I don't believe these people exist that are total masochists that would actually play healers for pvp if they knew they would not be able to kill anyone with their damage and also die to every other player that played a DPS class.

 

Your statement is half right, let me change some of the words... it should have been "the game is inherrantly focused on the viceral fun of killing, all games are. "

 

If you stated it as I corrected it then you would be able to bridge the gap to the healer's point of view of having to give up that viceral fun.

 

This whole thread is not about nerfing healers DPS as your argument would lend more to.. it seems to me people want to nerf healing.

 

I don't believe healing in pvp is intended to allow healers to tank damage or keep players alive indefinintly. While it may take longer for a single dps to kill a healer, I believe that the healer should die eventually through continued resource drain. It is up to the players teammates to remove the threat before death occurs.

 

As a healer you're supposed to depend on your team to protect you, not be a tank.

Edited March 16, 2012 by LoKiei

[Neozero]

only healers I have issues with atm are heavy armor healers, not only do they have the advantage of superior armor vs other healing classes that damned shield of theirs makes interrupts impossible. I can 1v1 any other healing class just fine as a pure dps, but if its heavy armor forget it, not only will they out heal me but the do enough DPS that even if I do whittle them down they have me dead to rights simply because I cannot heal myself after my first med pack is used.

[Zafeer]

Right which is why I edited my post. I believe that it needs to be a larger return, especially if they increase Expertise on the new PvP armor.

[Irenicus_Jon]

There is a certain Republic team on my server that almost every empire player hates. This is because they queue with two groups, usually manage to get in the same game, and have 3-4 healers in the team. Nevermind winning, DPS classes can barely (if at all) get their 4 badges, because nobody dies. Even when people put on markers on the healers and focus fire them.

[AvalonBunny]

Not sure if you're on the same server as me, but I've seen a Repub team like that. They're well organised and have several healers. Being on a pug team gives us little chance.

Where I admire good team, having premades against pugs IS killing PvP. No-one wants to constantly lose, and the newer level 50's with only a couple of Champion pieces are becoming very disheartened.

Edited March 16, 2012 by AvalonBunny

[AetherMcLoud]

It's not that healing per se is overpowered. 1-2 healers on a team are killable with strategy and focus.

 

But once you have 3 healers crosshealing each other it's no use anymore. You simply can't kill anyone.

 

The best solution would be to balance the amount of healers in warzones.

[Vaipyr]

As a healer you're supposed to depend on your team to protect you, not be a tank.

 

They do.

 

Healers in pugs die more than anyone else the majority of the time because puggers don't help their healers.

 

Healers in premades however are magnificently powerful.

 

Working

 

as

 

intended.

 

I can kill a healer 1v1 as a TANK as long as I use my cc's and interrupts correctly. If someone can't do it on a DPS it's a L2P issue.

[AvalonBunny]

It's not that healing per se is overpowered. 1-2 healers on a team are killable with strategy and focus.

 

But once you have 3 healers crosshealing each other it's no use anymore. You simply can't kill anyone.

 

The best solution would be to balance the amount of healers in warzones.

 

I agree with what you're saying. Sadly a pug team Vs a premade with healers is difficult. I've been on the pug team against such, and it was terrible.

[Elaithe]

signed.

 

If a healer can outheal a good dps and throwing heals into his group then something is wrong.

 

You really need to re-think your idea of good DPS. Any GOOD DPS can kill a healer or at least make the completely ineffective without help from their team with peels. Any 2 GOOD DPS can destroy a healer in under 10 seconds.

 

The only thing I see in this thread is "Whine whine whine, I'm really bad and don't know how to coordinate with my team to take down healers so I'm going to cry about it on the forums". Get some perspective, learn how to handle healers, and you'll be fine.

[jnine]

For anyone moaning about healing, try levelling 1, get to 50 and pug some WZ's then come back and talk, its a nightmare, you get focused down and nobody guards you.

 

When i group with my guildies and i am guarded its a different story, If we go up against new dinged 50's we faceroll them, but when its a well geared group on the other team, its another story totally, im in full champ gear with a few bits of BM gear, i still melt like butter when i am focused by 2 marauders, 1 well played marauder/sentinal can pretty much negate my team healing. This is how it should be!

 

If you think healing is over powered you are either undergeared or need to get more organised.

 

I cant solo pug WZ's on my server as it makes me rage cos i just get focused, perhaps the other teams all know my name by now and know im a healer, but i will add that there are some very good empire players/teams on my server.

[TheConjecturer]

So here is a rundown of how pvp healing works:

 

1. The dps all pile down as a team on each of the individual enemy healers to get them out of the way

2. Then the dps toons all go group to opposing single dps toon until they are eliminated for the purpose of securing victory

3. The enemy team is doing the same thing

 

---now here are the important things to remember---

 

a. When two teams of equal skill and gear compete against one another: the team without healers or the appropriate ratio of dps to healers will lose 100% of the time

b. When two teams of equal skill, gear, and correct dps to healer ratio compete: the healers for both teams are just trying to outlive the opposite team's healers through self heals, self buffs, and de-buffing, stunning, and interupting the enemy team's healers for the purpose of granting your team the crucial seconds for them to start killing the enemy team's dps players before they get the chance to start killing your team's dps players.

 

I am not assuming to be an expert at mmos, it is just the way that it has been since the beginning of the genre

 

I am not assuming that all of you do not understand this basic strategy, it is just the impression that I am getting from many of these forums and general chat postings is that there are many new mmo players to this game

 

Healing is already nerfed: the nerf is called teamwork

[Scav]

Kinda, put a BH/Troop healer w/ a tank, good luck killing any of 'em, even w/ a full 8 man team.

[Azygous]

So as I understand it, you're saying that dps should win no matter what. a healer (which is rare enough in PvP) shouldnt be able to keep anyone up or even himself when a dps comes along?

 

what incentive if any then would it be to have a healer in PvP if you get what you want?

 

Second killing healers may be hard but removing them from a group fight so they focus on themselves is actually a good tactic but i guess you would prefer to remove healer class all together.

 

if you think they are god mode then roll a healer and find out for yourself i can assure you its much harder than rofl look heal me heal player heal me etc.

 

No. He is saying that a commando or merc in full BM heavy armor should not outlive 2 dps in BM on him while managing to throw heals on people.

 

Staying alive against 2 DPS while healing someone is incentive? No that is an imbalance. If an imbalance is what makes you roll a class then you must roll FOTM quite often. Were you an OPs before? Your arguments with rofl seem to fit similar ones for OPs pre nerf.

 

You should not focus on removing a healer from a group instead of killing him using your 1 or 2 timed CCs that you might have or have not blown already.

 

That is ridiculous..why should you struggle against a single class like that? What is special about that class? This is the exact same argument that took place about the OPs except it is ridiculous survivability instead of DPS this time.

 

There usually are 2 healers minimum and come ranked wz this is most likely. So imagine BM heavy armor+ Spam heals (interrupts does not lock down the whole tree just the specific heal) and being guarded and having another healer on them. You shouldn't have to focus 4 dps on a single class leaving the objective. That defeats the purpose of a wz

 

I have seen a full BM merc healer outlive 2 champ and 2 cent dps on a node for 6 minutes straight. Alone. Unguarded and with no other healers. I gave up because the alderan was about objectives so I left 2 people on him while we moved to middle.

 

I don't care what you say but I don't want to have that situation in ranked where people will brush off their BM heavy healers and join.

 

Bioware should tackle this instead of waiting for those teams to farm medals and cause an even greater imbalance like the ilum spawn camping fiasco.

 

I did not play against any full BM sages to be able to assess them but given their speed to LOS and knockbacks and bubbles I think they are approaching the same. At least from the sub BM gear I saw.

[Exilim]

I don't want healing nerfed, but I would like for my interrupt cooldown to be lessened. 12 seconds is pitiful. 8 is good.

 

~Gunslinger

[MightyHalo]

It's too easy to heal.

 

I don't mind healers, but heals need a severe penalty in WZ's.

 

It's starting to get stupid in wz's, and ranked wz's are going to be a nightmare unless they do something about heal effectiveness in WZ's now.

[Azygous]

For anyone moaning about healing, try levelling 1, get to 50 and pug some WZ's then come back and talk, its a nightmare, you get focused down and nobody guards you.

 

When i group with my guildies and i am guarded its a different story, If we go up against new dinged 50's we faceroll them, but when its a well geared group on the other team, its another story totally, im in full champ gear with a few bits of BM gear, i still melt like butter when i am focused by 2 marauders, 1 well played marauder/sentinal can pretty much negate my team healing. This is how it should be!

 

If you think healing is over powered you are either undergeared or need to get more organised.

 

I cant solo pug WZ's on my server as it makes me rage cos i just get focused, perhaps the other teams all know my name by now and know im a healer, but i will add that there are some very good empire players/teams on my server.

 

Leveling one is not a nightmare. You have companions and various quests. I don't think anyone says that lvling in swtor is a nightmare.

 

We are talking about groups organized in good gear and know how to play their class where imbalance shows. Not about other random factors like PUGs, lowbies, crap gear etc.

 

I'm full BM and with other full BM/champ rakat players and we run into full BM healers and there is an imbalance.

 

Please come up with other arguments instead of posting your pre-50 PUG experience as one.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Azygous

[MightyHalo]

I can kill a healer 1v1 as a TANK as long as I use my cc's and interrupts correctly. If someone can't do it on a DPS it's a L2P issue.

 

No you can't.

[CaptainInsano]

Yeah I think the point is it isn't about healers vs dps. Everyone decent will have access to healers so it won't be an advantage for either side in a rated Warzone. The point is at optimal levels of play with the correct amount of tanks and healers on both teams, nobody is going to die on either side. The games are going to be stalemates due to the synergy tanks and healers currently have. There won't be enough time between deaths for anyone to cap a door in Voidstar or take a node in Civil War. That's why there needs to be a counter of some kind. I would just cap the amount of healers allowed in a match by detecting something like 21 points or more detected in the healing tree. It seems clear healers weren't intended to be stacked because if it takes 2 DPS to kill one healer, when you have 3-4 healers where does that leave us? It breaks the game in a way. We'll see how it goes but I have a feeling this is how its going to play out in ranked.

[Brewthor]

Don't worry target of of target is coming soon. Even idiots will have 5+ man insta lock assist trains for dps.

 

Healing, especially HOTS, will be worthless and pvp will be based on CC and ez mode focus fire. You will get CCed, preferably stunned, and will be dead before the CC wears off. Matches will be decided by who applys CC better and which assist train rolls the hardest.

 

OP will be delighted!! It's like a FPS but with MOAR LGHTSABERS!!!!!!!!!!

[Xsorus]

That's either complete ********, or you killed really bad healers. Interrupts don't do anything aside breifly lock one healing ability. So unless your healers are drooling morons who have nothing but one healing ability on their toolbar. So stop playint the pro by pretending you deal with a serious issue with ease, it's overrated.

 

Now lets talk about the rest of the mouth dump you just posted..

 

 

 

How when expertise scales differently with damage and healing considering there are no healing reduction abilities, aside the Trauma debuff which would make healing totally ridiculous, cosidering it's meant to heal raid boss damage, not just player damage, but there are plenty of damage reduction not to mention the HP increase and combined they make a pretty meaning difference so stop pretending it's nothing.

 

 

 

Lemme guess, you play a Grav round spammer? Yeah good luck denting my healer with my guard up and constantly taunting you, eating at your health with my crappy damage. Like I said, it's overrated to pretend you are the rebel ****** dealing with a problem.

 

A. You lock out the primary form of them healing themselves, and you cannot keep up with Damage. Be it Dark Infusion, Medical Probe, or Kolto Injection. The other Abilities will let them heal somewhat, but if you lock out those abilities, they cannot keep up, Factor in classes like Pyro Powertech which can interrupt, then stun twice, then follow with another interrupt, and there is not much you can do. Like I said, unless this Healer has help, he's screwed and he's certainly not healing anyone else.

 

B. Marauders have a healing debuff mate, they can throw that on any healer they want. It's what makes them great vs healers. As for Damage Reduction abilities, the only healer with a decent damage reduction ability is Commando's and Mercs, They're actually hard to bring down with Energy Shield up (and the Commando Equiv) but they have to invest into it and hopefully you can save your Stuns for when they pop it. Other then that, Healers in this game rely on Taunts and Guard from Tanks or terrible DPS who just don't know how to properly dps or interrupt.

 

C. No, I'm not a "Grav round" spammer, i'm a Pyro Powertech, ya know.. the class that ignores all your armor and does stupid amounts of damage. But I'd like to point out what you just said for everyone "Good luck denting my healer with guard up, and me taunting you" So it basically went from "Healers are overpowered" to "Good luck beating on my Healer who's guarded and i'm taunting you" 2v1 I'd hope would be difficult for me... But Then again, Guess who's probably going to die in that fight.. You... Because of the way Powertech's Combustible Gas Cylinder works, It procs everytime i do a flameburst, and because you're guarding him.. Guess what.. you get to eat the dot just the same as him...I'm pretty sure it's a bug, but Guarded Targets usually end up with 1 of the targets dead and usually its the tank as the healer can't keep up.

[Xsorus]

As opposed to what happen to rift? You know, they just wouldn't fix healing so eventually everyone quit. Guess what? PVP works just fine without healers as well.

 

You mean where they separated Premades and Pugs and that's why everyone quit not healing..

 

I remember all the terrible DPS in that game to "Why can't I solo down this healer" and them posting video's of this crap Warden who we regularly shat on because none of us sucked at DPS.

 

If you thought healing was overpowered in Rift, you clearly didn't play a good dps, and it's carried over to this game..

[Xsorus]

This thread is hilarious, It's went from "Healers are able to solo heal themselves while being attacked and healing everyone else" to "3 or 4 Healers make it difficult for anyone to kill someone"

 

We still have some tards talking about how a single healer can stand up to 2 dps and heal themselves and everyone else, but they'll be laughed out of the thread soon enough.

 

Fact is, This is an issue in every game, because every game has people who suck horribly at playing a DPS class, which is surprising, since usually playing a DPS isn't that hard.

 

Rift was a perfect example of this.. This is a game where people cried healers were overpowered, specifically wardens... Now mind you.. this is a game where my mage could ONE SHOT you... One shot.... there was no healing.. you just died... My Mage could wipe your entire group in a matter of seconds if specced into stormcaller, My Mage could Drain all your mana away in a few seconds also.

 

This is a game where a Hot based class with a 1.5 second global cooldown was somehow considered massively overpowered even when a Range Rogue Based class with a 1.0 second cooldown could strip 2 buffs away...and do it constantly with no cooldown...

 

This is a Game where Warriors.. had a bloody passive 50% heal debuff, that could be applied AOE to every target they hit basically and crit on.....

 

Even still, you had terrible players crying about how they couldn't kill a healer in a Warfront.

 

It happens every game, and you can see it at the end on the scoreboards, A lot of people say damage means nothing, but it does.... If you're playing a marauder for example, and you do below 100k damage for an entire fight, Guess what.. You're bad..

 

If one player is pulling 2x to 3x the amount of damage has half his team, Guess what, Half his team if they weren't healing or tanking, were bloody useless.. and I see this daily while pvping..

 

Bad players will be Bad, and it doesn't matter what game they're in.

[babiegirlla]

This thread is hilarious, It's went from "Healers are able to solo heal themselves while being attacked and healing everyone else" to "3 or 4 Healers make it difficult for anyone to kill someone"

 

We still have some tards talking about how a single healer can stand up to 2 dps and heal themselves and everyone else, but they'll be laughed out of the thread soon enough.

 

Fact is, This is an issue in every game, because every game has people who suck horribly at playing a DPS class, which is surprising, since usually playing a DPS isn't that hard.

 

Rift was a perfect example of this.. This is a game where people cried healers were overpowered, specifically wardens... Now mind you.. this is a game where my mage could ONE SHOT you... One shot.... there was no healing.. you just died... My Mage could wipe your entire group in a matter of seconds if specced into stormcaller, My Mage could Drain all your mana away in a few seconds also.

 

This is a game where a Hot based class with a 1.5 second global cooldown was somehow considered massively overpowered even when a Range Rogue Based class with a 1.0 second cooldown could strip 2 buffs away...and do it constantly with no cooldown...

 

This is a Game where Warriors.. had a bloody passive 50% heal debuff, that could be applied AOE to every target they hit basically and crit on.....

 

Even still, you had terrible players crying about how they couldn't kill a healer in a Warfront.

 

It happens every game, and you can see it at the end on the scoreboards, A lot of people say damage means nothing, but it does.... If you're playing a marauder for example, and you do below 100k damage for an entire fight, Guess what.. You're bad..

 

If one player is pulling 2x to 3x the amount of damage has half his team, Guess what, Half his team if they weren't healing or tanking, were bloody useless.. and I see this daily while pvping..

 

Bad players will be Bad, and it doesn't matter what game they're in.

 

it has nothing to do with being bad, i do premades with my friends, all war hero before these changes, people that quit and came back, it`s not so much that they`re overpowered, it`s that when you have 2-3 BM healers on both sides, on say Voidstar. Now, we`ve all had one of these games, where neither side gets passed the first door because both sides have amazing heals, tanks and dps. It doesn`t matter how hard we cc, how hard we interrupt, the truth is healing is SO powerful, you`ll never burst that sorc healer down before that other healer, and the healer you`re on, heals right back up. You`ll never put out enough dps if you split dps on both healers either. It`s frustrating and annoying, and it`s just not fun.

 

I`d also like to point out that healing in this game is boring as boring gets. Someone takes damage, you click and cast a heal, someone takes damage you click and cast a heal. There`s no hand of freedom there`s no CDs there`s no increased haste, should I use this spell to prevent slows for 10 seconds or should I wait for when this other class casts this. There`s 0 thought process in healing it`s just boring.

Edited March 16, 2012 by babiegirlla

[DomingoDarkrage]

I find healing rather fun in warzones. If there are 3+ on a team, you need to seperate them out. push, shove, pull, jet boost, knock behind cover, cc, mez, stun.

 

Get a team that coordinates tossing healers around, preferable out of LOS, and stuff dies.

[Astarica]

it has nothing to do with being bad, i do premades with my friends, all war hero before these changes, people that quit and came back, it`s not so much that they`re overpowered, it`s that when you have 2-3 BM healers on both sides, on say Voidstar. Now, we`ve all had one of these games, where neither side gets passed the first door because both sides have amazing heals, tanks and dps. It doesn`t matter how hard we cc, how hard we interrupt, the truth is healing is SO powerful, you`ll never burst that sorc healer down before that other healer, and the healer you`re on, heals right back up. You`ll never put out enough dps if you split dps on both healers either. It`s frustrating and annoying, and it`s just not fun.

 

I`d also like to point out that healing in this game is boring as boring gets. Someone takes damage, you click and cast a heal, someone takes damage you click and cast a heal. There`s no hand of freedom there`s no CDs there`s no increased haste, should I use this spell to prevent slows for 10 seconds or should I wait for when this other class casts this. There`s 0 thought process in healing it`s just boring.

 

Assuming tanks don't include Assassins (which can be tank + DPS), if you've 2-3 healers and supported by an equal number of tanks then at least half of your team isn't DPS on both sides and why should getting into a 0-0 stalemate be surprising? 1 DPS, 1 tank, and 6 DPS is a perfectly viable team and I've seen such a team punch through 2-3 healers that are properly supported fine. A 2-0 victory is a perfectly fine score.