★★★[ARENA] - benefits of adding ARENA to SWTOR★★★

[Selout]

I'm curious where you got this information from about high level WoW arena players?

 

Arena Junkies members, with maybe the early exception of Lopez (lol - yeah, Lopez) almost universaly condemn ToR PvP as being much too simplistic and the skillcap to be way to low to have any type of truly competitive small scale PvP like Arena.

 

My guild, which at the start was primarly Gladiators from WoW, is now virtually empty - as most have returned to WoW with many who were in the TERA betas raving about their PvP system.

 

Reading comprehension is your friend. Re-read. I am not saying that your assessment of the attitude of the remaining arena community in WoW is wrong. And I do emphasize "remaining". I am saying, the people I know that are still playing SWTOR (admittedly the numbers are much lower now) and were/are high level arena players seem to have this point of view. I am not saying I know everyone.

 

I honestly don't care what game it is. If it's TERA, sweet... I'll play that. My point is, I'd like it to be this game and there is no reason it can't be.

[Rasstavad]

one of the purpose of arena is so that we can study all the matchups and can precisely pinpoint which classes are overpowered / exactly how much theyre overpowered (what % of time do they win arena?), so that they can be adjusted

 

 

 

itd b much more preferable to have the game balanced around proven win ratios / statistics / numbers, and not around whiners on the forums

 

 

 

once they add arena and start balancing around statistics, you wont be seeing much cookie cutter premade comps in WZ's either

 

I can agree to this.

 

Balance, as it stand right now, is pretty bad. The only thing that keeps the real numbers hidden is our lack of small scale rated PvP and detailed combat logs.

 

Every Warzone is mostly a Zerg the Objective map or Huttball (which is silly since it favors some classes so heavily).

[Rasstavad]

Reading comprehension is your friend. Re-read. I am not saying that your assessment of the attitude of the remaining arena community in WoW is wrong. And I do emphasize "remaining". I am saying, the people I know that are still playing SWTOR (admittedly the numbers are much lower now) and were/are high level arena players seem to have this point of view. I am not saying I know everyone.

 

I honestly don't care what game it is. If it's TERA, sweet... I'll play that. My point is, I'd like it to be this game and there is no reason it can't be.

 

Lopez... is that you? Not still pissed at me about that thread are you?

 

All kidding aside... We'll have to see. For Arena I think our best hope will be GW2, although from what I'm being told by friends - TERA PvP is very skill based, but I don't think they will have a rated system in place.

[Selout]

Lopez... is that you? Not still pissed at me about that thread are you?

 

All kidding aside... We'll have to see. For Arena I think our best hope will be GW2, although from what I'm being told by friends - TERA PvP is very skill based, but I don't think they will have a rated system in place.

 

Sorry to disappoint but I am not a forum spamming try-hard seeking attention. I like this game, and hope it does well. People like Lopez is one of the many reasons why AJ has turned into a pile of garbage and has been such for quite some time.

 

I do think, however, you are right about our best hopes. I wonder if a company like Bioware is nimble enough or has the will to implement such a system in such a short time. People seem to be losing interest in PvP here by the day and I am not sure what they can do to stop the bleeding. Clearly, it isn't rated WZ/BG's. One can hope I guess...

Edited March 18, 2012 by Selout

[Mirialol]

Sorry to disappoint but I am not a forum spamming try-hard seeking attention. I like this game, and hope it does well. People like Lopez is one of the many reasons why AJ has turned into a pile of garbage and has been such for quite some time.

 

I do think, however, you are right about our best hopes. I wonder if a company like Bioware is nimble enough or has the will to implement such a system in such a short time. People seem to be losing interest in PvP here by the day and I am not sure what they can do to stop the bleeding. Clearly, it isn't rated WZ/BG's. One can hope I guess...

 

sometimes i wish bioware can hire me to be a lead pvp dev

[NetherGG]

I prefear arena than ranked warzone

[Divinism]

When arenas are mentioned, people tend to think about the deathmatch style arenas WoW has. Sure, even then it's a great fun, but the concept can be expanded to become even more exciting.

 

In addition to the current deathmatch "kill everyone in the opposing team and win" style, there could be actual objectives. Think of a small scale warzone. Do you have a favorite game mode in an another game, like in FPS games? Pick that, tune it down to smaller scale and apply it to an MMO enviroment. For example:

 

For 3v3/4v4/more

King of the Hill - A capture point spawns randomly in a map. The objective is to capture the point certain amount of times (1-3) to win. Has a respawn.

 

Possession - A ball / flag spawns in the middle of the map. Holding the item grants you points, the first team to reach certain amount of points wins. Has a respawn.

 

Juggernaut / Gladiator - One team member from each team is elevated to be a gladiator/juggernaut (either by random or decision), granting him enormous amount of health and/or other possible bonuses. The gladiator/juggernaut cannot be healed by anyone else but himself or herself, but he/she can heal other team members. The team who kills the gladiator/juggernaut the fastest wins. No respawn.

 

For 2v2/3v3

Hide and Seek - The opposite team goes into hiding (weak stealth, visible to anyone within 5-10m) in a relatively small map, but leave (possibly) temporary traces when they move. The opposing team would occasionally get clues of the locations (Player X is nearby) of the hiding team.

 

Upon getting spotted, the hiding team member(s) may try to fight back (with a possible penalty like -25% passive damage / health / healing to encourage escaping) or try to get out of combat, in which case they would enter in stealth mode again. 2 rounds, 2-5 minutes each round. No respawn except for the searching team. The team who killed the hiding team fastest, succeeded staying hidden or did better progress in both rounds (stayed hidden the longest until being spotted the first time, killed one hiding team member) wins.

 

 

These are what I'd like to have. But you can use your imagination, even the current warzone could be tuned down in map size and to arena scale.

[stiernstrom]

Im hardcore pvper and its true, with no arena to realy enjoy endgame with it gets booring fast and will move on to another game. I got two lvl 50 in swtor and a few lower lvls and its just nothing to do when lvl 50. Rated bgs dont cut it, its often hard to set up good teams rather then just fool around in arena with one or two of your friends.

 

Get arena, or get lost.

[Metalmac]

No Arena!

 

If you want Arena go back to WOW. I like this game and left WoW for a good reason.

 

ARENA RUINED WOW!

[AMKSED]

Pass on Arenas. NO thank you.

 

Objective based WZ maps and maybe 1-2 TDM maps > Arenas.

 

Arenas are breeding grounds for skilled players...but they are also breeding grounds for a terrible community with a dash of class OP outcry.

 

Because that isn't already happening?

 

 

I agree with the OP, add some TDM into this game.

[Ritterific]

It seems to me the crux of the argument for people in support of arenas in Swtor is that smaller groups are easier to get and this somehow makes it better for PvP. What having smaller groups does is highlight class imbalances and leads to a few overpowered compositions dominating the scene. This then leads to massive buffs/nerfs to bring those down which only creates new overpowered compositions. Repeat ad nauseum like WoW is doing.

 

The other part of it is just people being lazy. If people want to run operations at endgame, they need at least 8 people. So, guess what, if you want to run successful rated warzones, guess how many people you need? Eight.

 

Arena adds nothing to game that rated Warzones won't add. Instead it creates a balancing nightmare that can't be sustained in a large focus game like this. If the whole point of this game was playing arena and that was the only thing characters were balanced around, then yes, I could see them finally creating a balanced arena playing field. However, if arena was the only reason to play this game, only a few people would even bother playing it.

 

Arenas aren't popular enough to base an entire game on and the only way to successfully balance a game with arena in it is to base the entire game around arena. It's a lovely oxymoron, because no investors will support a game that no one will play. So no, Swtor does not now nor will it ever benefit from adding arenas to the game.

[Entel]

Yess!!!!!!!! I love arenas!!!!! I loved them in wow and I wish we had them here!!!

 

They had arena style fighting in the sw movies lets get them in here!

 

Arenas is the real reason I kept on playing wow for as long as I did. I only quit because of this game! I would stay subbed to both but it gets really expensive! Anyways, I am enjoying the game, but war zones are starting to get REALLY boring! And ilum is a mess! If I dont see any incentive to keep on pvping I will definitely go back to wow when the expansion comes out.

[Mirialol]

This then leads to massive buffs/nerfs to bring those down which only creates new overpowered compositions. Repeat ad nauseum like WoW is doing.

 

stop posting these b/c that is so inaccurate in every way

 

 

in fact i WISH blizzard balanced games around arena / pvp. reason classes ended up being broken in wow was because they only balanced around PVE dps and healing. they cared nothing about pvp - something would be broken or have overpowered mechanic in PVP, and it would stay like that for rest of the expansion.

 

in fact game broke because blizzard neglected arena as if it doesnt exist

Edited March 18, 2012 by Mirialol

[Swampylol]

stop posting these b/c that is so inaccurate in every way

 

 

in fact i WISH blizzard balanced games around arena / pvp. reason classes ended up being broken in wow was because they only balanced around PVE dps and healing. they cared nothing about pvp - something would be broken or have overpowered mechanic in PVP, and it would stay like that for rest of the expansion.

 

in fact game broke because blizzard neglected arena as if it doesnt exist

 

HAHAHAHAHAAHA,

 

Pom Pyro mages at the start of WotLK got nerfed coz of their immense pve burst?

[Mirialol]

HAHAHAHAHAAHA,

 

Pom Pyro mages at the start of WotLK got nerfed coz of their immense pve burst?

 

they were prob nerfed cuz they also had higher unbalanced pve dps

 

 

and they sometimes fix ridiculously overpowered / unbalanced stuff if enough people (mostly bad battleground pvpers) QQ about it. kind of like what SWTOR pvp forums did to 1.0 operatives

 

but no they never balance around arenas

Edited March 18, 2012 by Mirialol

[Ghostmachine]

stop posting these b/c that is so inaccurate in every way

 

 

in fact i WISH blizzard balanced games around arena / pvp. reason classes ended up being broken in wow was because they only balanced around PVE dps and healing. they cared nothing about pvp - something would be broken or have overpowered mechanic in PVP, and it would stay like that for rest of the expansion.

 

in fact game broke because blizzard neglected arena as if it doesnt exist

 

I would have to ask you to stop making comparisons to Star Craft then because that kind of thinking is actually erroneous. Star Craft is an RTS. Every aspect of that game lends itself to competitive 1v1 and team play. Star Wars The Old Republic is not a real time strategy game.

 

Many of us who do not want Arena in SWTOR do not want it for very good reasons. It's not because we don't like Arena, it's because we've seen the negative impact that this niche has on every other aspect of game play. It's not as though people are coming to this thread seeing Arena and then completely fabricating class balance issues.

 

If you really don't believe that Blizzard made class balance changes because of Arena you're either delusional or you haven't been paying attention the last 4-5 years. If you really think an RPG can ever have balanced, competitive PvP in an arena setting you're far more optimistic than the rest of us.

 

For anyone that wants Arena play in SWTOR, I say more power to you. But I'll only support the addition of Arena play if Bioware can assure me three things:

 

1. Arena Rewards should never be better than what can be earned through any other form of PvP. This means no unique titles, no weapons, mounts or anything that you can't earn through Warzones or open world PvP.

 

2. If Arena ranks players anyone who sells or trades ratings should be permanently banned. No ifs ands or buts about it. I'm tired of talking to people that think Arenas are a measure of skill and are willing to tarnish that by cheating. Those are just not the kind of people any gaming community wants.

 

3. Not one class change can be made as a direct result of Arena matches. Not one buff or nerf.

[unicornfive]

stop posting these b/c that is so inaccurate in every way

 

 

in fact i WISH blizzard balanced games around arena / pvp. reason classes ended up being broken in wow was because they only balanced around PVE dps and healing. they cared nothing about pvp - something would be broken or have overpowered mechanic in PVP, and it would stay like that for rest of the expansion.

 

in fact game broke because blizzard neglected arena as if it doesnt exist

 

HF with bioware's sense of balance in this game then....

They just took jugg's rage spec and gave it to mara with more buffs on it and the +30% dmg along with their 30% aoe dmg reduction talent and all their other defensive cds..

And Jugg charge now will stun enemy instead of root, which means 2 jugg charge on same target = full resolve on target instantly....

 

HF again in your rated wz and soon arena with these changes, rofl

And as much i was hating it go back to wow, after the add of rated wz and their terrible sense of balance, i prefer playing wow with blizzard making the buffs/nerfs than a wow clone game thats lacks almost everything still...

[Crazyknight]

stop posting these b/c that is so inaccurate in every way

 

 

in fact i WISH blizzard balanced games around arena / pvp. reason classes ended up being broken in wow was because they only balanced around PVE dps and healing. they cared nothing about pvp - something would be broken or have overpowered mechanic in PVP, and it would stay like that for rest of the expansion.

 

in fact game broke because blizzard neglected arena as if it doesnt exist

 

That is just not true at least not all of it.You must be talking of the time when pvers complain about buffs and nerfs that are based solely on arenas or pvp.What do devs do? try to balance around pve? what do pvpers do? complain and the devs go back to pvp and try to balance that , thats the worst part about this , its really hard to balance talents for 1.PVE 2.Large group PVP 3.Arenas all at the same time.

 

 

Is either make the game focus around arenas and build the classes with that in mind or add new abilities that are only usable in pvp.

[Ahebish]

Ok, I'll bite.

 

As a non-WoW player (many other MMOs) how is this arena implemented?

 

A coliseum arena circle? How many players? Just kill each other once? How does it work?

 

Healers are overpowered, concealments continuously nerf'd (deathknights) caster class get stronger (frost mage)

 

45 minute 2v2's no mana burn

 

Dual healer Q's making them unbeatable you either quit or you fight a never ending fight.

 

There are a lot of BAD things in arenas in wow

 

3v3 is not so bad, 5v5 is better

 

2v2's are just plain stupid.

 

Now consider SWTOR follows the exact same path as wow, and the community is just as lovely

Edited March 18, 2012 by Ahebish

[Lavasmoke]

Heck I think this is a great idea and they should have put this in the game from the start,Arena Was fun in WoW and i think it will be great in this game.Your post hear is great now if bioware actually spends the time to take a look at it that would be great.

[Optimism]

Well if there's one thing that SW:TOR has done right is the PvP and as much as I hate to admit it, balancing of the classes.

 

I've never touched PvP at all other than the very rare world PvP in WoW. That completely changed in TOR as I've never been PvPing this much since BC. In fact I like the PvP alot more in this game than the PvE.

 

If arena's were to be implemented, Bioware HAS to commit to it. Blizzard themselves admit that adding arena's into WoW was a mistake. If Bioware provides 100% support to this, I'll be doing these as well.

 

FYI

 

http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/blizzard-arenas-were-a-mistake/

 

 

in fact game broke because blizzard neglected arena as if it doesnt exist

 

That's definitely true especially in cataclysm. Every PvPer I've known felt disrespected on how they handled either PvP balance or the big MMR exploitation that did it's damage on the high end brackets. Took them this season to reset MMR but it left a bad taste in their mouth.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Optimism

[Foenixz]

stop posting these b/c that is so inaccurate in every way

 

 

in fact i WISH blizzard balanced games around arena / pvp. reason classes ended up being broken in wow was because they only balanced around PVE dps and healing. they cared nothing about pvp - something would be broken or have overpowered mechanic in PVP, and it would stay like that for rest of the expansion.

 

in fact game broke because blizzard neglected arena as if it doesnt exist

 

 

 

Once again for teh hard of reading

 

2% = max amount of hard core arena players. It's far less now. Yet huge sweeping changes were made to classes because of the 2%ers QQing. e.g.

1st fel puppy nerf QQing rogues

2nd fel puppy nerf QQing mages

SL/SL buff devs nerf everyone else QQing

BM hunter nerf everyone QQing

Mace specced rogues warriors = everyone QQing

MS warrior nerf all comps with a heals QQing

Mana burn/drain nerfs QQing pallys

Frost buffs (devs) aka Kalgon (have they ever been nerfed?)

 

 

Those are the top of the iceberg either you are lying to prove your point or misinformed. Either way,

 

 

If you really don't believe that Blizzard made class balance changes because of Arena you're either delusional or you haven't been paying attention the last 4-5 years. If you really think an RPG can ever have balanced, competitive PvP in an arena setting you're far more optimistic than the rest of us.

 

For anyone that wants Arena play in SWTOR, I say more power to you. But I'll only support the addition of Arena play if Bioware can assure me three things:

 

1. Arena Rewards should never be better than what can be earned through any other form of PvP. This means no unique titles, no weapons, mounts or anything that you can't earn through Warzones or open world PvP.

 

2. If Arena ranks players anyone who sells or trades ratings should be permanently banned. No ifs ands or buts about it. I'm tired of talking to people that think Arenas are a measure of skill and are willing to tarnish that by cheating. Those are just not the kind of people any gaming community wants.

 

3. Not one class change can be made as a direct result of Arena matches. Not one buff or nerf.

 

 

I would welcome arenas with these qualifications.

[Zanzobar]

I've never read anything that was as truthful as this post. There is absolutely no reason why Bioware shouldn't put Arena into the game. Making ranked, small team based ladder makes PvP-ers stay. From playing Starcraft 2 since release I've noticed that the ladder system in that game makes me want to finish the game every time because I want to achieve higher rank and compete against harder opponents. I agree with you Mirialol in every way. Hope Bioware sees this post and foremost, does something about it. I want to be able to play PvE untill lvl 50 and then start focusing on PvP, but not if there is no competitive players and competitive armosphere.

[Raggok]

lol, in 1v1 there will always be class balance issues unless all the classes are identical. is this a joke thread?

 

I'm still wondering how 1v1s reveal how classes will synergize with other. I mean, there is a pretty big difference between a tank with guard that is doing a 1v1 and a tank with guard that is doing a 2v2.

[Mirialol]

I'm still wondering how 1v1s reveal how classes will synergize with other. I mean, there is a pretty big difference between a tank with guard that is doing a 1v1 and a tank with guard that is doing a 2v2.

 

yea tanks should be roughly equal (50:50 win ratio) to dps's in 1v1. not because of damage, but just because they can survive longer and outlast the dps, plus they have more cc's / stuns

 

 

that way tanks will still be balanced in the team play.

 

 

I.E. In large group PvP like warzones and such, u cant replace all dps's in the teams with tank classes b/c the team will end up lacking in damage output to outdps the enemy heals. likewise team with only dpses+healer will be inferior to balanced team with tank+dpses+healer because they lack guards and taunts.

 

and i also believe that way even in 3v3 setting tank+dps+healer teams can also be roughly equal to dps+dps+healer teams. one side has better defensive capabilities while other has raw dps power

Edited March 19, 2012 by Mirialol