Kotor fans

[Spartanik]

You also haven't provided the proof of why KotOR II is an immature game, when the opposite is clearly true, your average teen can playthrough KotOR 1 and get the whole thing, almost all the time they claim KotOR II sucked just because they weren't intelligent enough to get that this wasn't just your fantastical typical Star Wars story, it was much more down to earth, it was an intellectual's game, unlike KotOR.

I dont need to prove that kotor is more mature because that wasnt my point at all. My point is neither game is mature.... kotor 2 isnt intelectual at all... nor star wars.

My point kotor 1 its much more acomplished as a video game regarding story line, my meaning, you get a sense of acomplishement in the end you know what you are doing, in kotor 2 yes you find the answers you seek you can chose dark and light side but it doenst give the player much since of acomplishment, you dont know what happens next that you actions have consequenses... when you say that if you chose the dark side you destroy the jedi order.. that isnt true or it isnt clear in the game, you just kill 3 masters, you are suposed to be the last jedi, but you as a player dont get the impression that this is major thing at all, it is mentioned that there is more jedi out there in hiding so it isnt persé the end of the jedi . Im sorry a vague ending and unclear outcome its not intelectual or mature its just that vague, unfinish unpolished. just the same when you chose the light side, what happen? you dont know what did happen you can guess that the jedi are restored, and that your companions rebuild the jedi order, but none of that is in the game they never say that visas or mical or brianna rebuild the order, its not there, its not in the game that any of your actions ,matter that is the big fault of kotor2. The game just ends whenever you chose dark or light with the ebonw hawk leaving malachor... that is my grip with it, Or the ebow hawk destroyed i dont recall.

 

Dont get me wrong i love the game. I understand why people would think its a mature story it deals in shades of grey concerning the force and all that, but it hasnt any since of acomplishment at all. if you just play the game, but if you go on and read on other sources to fill holes yeah it makes much more sense.

 

But please dont call star wars intelectual it is nothing of a sort. It always have been and will always a be a fantasy fiction adventure based works. kotor 2 isnt any diferent. and i fail to see how kotor 1 is the same thing as the original triology but ok. Despite being adventure themed. if you take a good look kotor 2 folows the exact same pattern.

Detractors claim it only has one ending. That's not entirely accurate. The "endings" for each of your companions are given to you by Kreia after the final boss fight is pretty much over except for her croaking. They differ depending on the choices you made throughout the game.

yes it change small details nothing major changes... at least in teh game isnt clear.

Do i find kotor 2 story more interesting then kotor? yes i do in theory, but i had a much more enjoyfull experience as a gamer playing kotor 1 then 2. and that was the reason why. It lacked sense of acomlishement, that no matter what you would do your actions realy matter, instead they only changed small dialogues and a few images in the end with no closure what your action entail in the grand scheme of things.

 

So Spartanik, basically you are saying mature writing = writing with a sledgehammer?

no i sugest instead if you are after mature writing you might find it outside of star wars universe. Edited March 19, 2012 by Spartanik

[ellrochell]

how do people say kotor 2 is actually rubbish? i thought it had a quality character creation and in depth story. I really enjoyed playing both but i actually enjoyed playing kotor 2 more. Like turning your companions to the dark side and teaching them in the ways of the force

[Dext]

I liked KOTOR a lot. I have yet to play 2 yet but that has to do with Time and people I know that have played it have told me that it is really not worth it. I do know the story of the game tho.

[Castiel]

I love both Kotor and Kotor 2. If Obsidian were given free reign with time, and no rush, I'd say Kotor 2 would've been the best game of the two. But I prefer the 1st game.

[Rayla_Felana]

IMy point kotor 1 its much more acomplished as a video game regarding story line, my meaning, you get a sense of acomplishement in the end you know what you are doing, in kotor 2 yes you find the answers you seek you can chose dark and light side but it doenst give the player much since of acomplishment, you dont know what happens next that you actions have consequenses... when you say that if you chose the dark side you destroy the jedi order.. that isnt true or it isnt clear in the game, you just kill 3 masters, you are suposed to be the last jedi, but you as a player dont get the impression that this is major thing at all, it is mentioned that there is more jedi out there in hiding so it isnt persé the end of the jedi . Im sorry a vague ending and unclear outcome its not intelectual or mature its just that vague, unfinish unpolished. just the same when you chose the light side, what happen? you dont know what did happen you can guess that the jedi are restored, and that your companions rebuild the jedi order, but none of that is in the game they never say that visas or mical or brianna rebuild the order, its not there, its not in the game that any of your actions ,matter that is the big fault of kotor2. The game just ends whenever you chose dark or light with the ebonw hawk leaving malachor... that is my grip with it, Or the ebow hawk destroyed i dont recall.

 

Apparently you clearly ignored the massive conversation with Darth Traya at the end.

 

Don't get me wrong i love the game. I understand why people would think its a mature story it deals in shades of grey concerning the force and all that, but it hasnt any since of acomplishment at all. if you just play the game, but if you go on and read on other sources to fill holes yeah it makes much more sense.

 

Again you clearly didn't pay attention, and how is it NOT mature writing? you aren't some big hero, everybody loves, you are just a war vet, unlike KotOR.

 

There is no big happy ending, simply because her journey, which was becoming a Jedi again, was over, her duty to restore the Order, was the new journey, this would have been continued in KotOR 3, but LucasArts disallowed it, so yes there was an ending, Kreia tells you VERY clearly what is going to happen because of what you have done, you don't need to see it, you are TOLD it.

 

But please dont call star wars intelectual it is nothing of a sort. It always have been and will always a be a fantasy fiction adventure based works. kotor 2 isnt any diferent. and i fail to see how kotor 1 is the same thing as the original triology but ok. Despite being adventure themed. if you take a good look kotor 2 folows the exact same pattern.

yes it change small details nothing major changes... at least in teh game isnt clear.

Do i find kotor 2 story more interesting then kotor? yes i do in theory, but i had a much more enjoyfull experience as a gamer playing kotor 1 then 2. and that was the reason why. It lacked sense of acomlishement, that no matter what you would do your actions realy matter, instead they only changed small dialogues and a few images in the end with no closure what your action entail in the grand scheme of things.

 

So I take it The Lord of the Rings is a child's tale? and it's very immature, simply because it is set in a fictional world? no, The Hobbit is a child's tale yet it is only immature because it was written for children.

 

That's the difference between KotOR and TSL, KotOR is, go from nobody, to big hero (Revan), in five seconds, defeat the evil guy(Malak) and save the world(Galaxy) Get the wench(Bastila), everyone lives happily ever after.

 

KotOR II: TSL, You find out the Republic you spent years and many sacrifices defending, is about to collapse, the Jedi Order you once served is all but non-existent, your old best friend turned to the Dark Side, almost wiped out all of your friends, and then disappeared after killing Malak, seemingly un-killable Sith Lords are wiping out all life, and all the support you have is an forgiving old woman, an idiot pilot and the weirdest group of people you can imagine, and oh, that isn't the best part, when you go and ask the Jedi that FYI hate you, what happened all those years ago, they tell you you are one of the worst things to happen to the galaxy and you need to basically die or you'll kill everybody you know.

 

Even through all that, you persevere, you remain loyal to the old fight, even though this is a different enemy and the war already seems lost, you still continue to fight, you rebuild the Order that banished you, you prove everybody wrong and you put the galaxy back to the way it should be, you, the Exile, become the greatest Jedi the order has seen in a long time and no one even knows about it, best part is history never remembers you, for anything but your Exile.

 

If those are not completely different stories, well then you clearly can blur anything into a perception you prefer.

 

No i sugest instead if you are after mature writing you might find it outside of star wars universe.

 

Again, Fantasy=/=Immature.

 

By your logic, Warhammer 40,000 should be taught in nurseries.

[Castiel]

You're SUCH a fanboy, haha

[Rayla_Felana]

You're SUCH a fanboy, haha

 

Call me whatever makes you feel better kid.

[Castiel]

Call me whatever makes you feel better kid.

 

You make me feel better

[mefit]

I do not like Obsidian and to be honest , I think KotoR II would have been better if it was done by someone else !

Kinda like how I love Fallout3 but do not like Fallout Vegas.

 

KotoR II was a Decent game with over the TOP Sith Lords , they really went the distance with that game .

I liked KotoR II story but the game was not all that great to me, and after being on this game with the trolls on these forums picking apart KotoR and saying KotoRII was better , I feel like I have to root a football team ..............

 

 

KotoR was nothing like OT , it was about

*2 Republic Heros that were Jedi who went against the wishes of the Jedi Council and took on the greatest threat of their time.

 

*The 2 Republic Heros with the Jedi that followed them turned Sith and betrayed the Republic

 

*Sithlord was killed or thought to be killed by his apprentic , in which he turns back to light and cleans kills the New Sithlord his former apprentic.

 

^ How is that anything or in anyway like OT ? I have said this before on the Revan Hate threads and it seems the same crap is being said on here .

 

KotoR was more awarded than KotoR2 and had a greater impact on the StarWars Series ! Not to mention if it wasn't for KotoR , KotoR 2 would have never came to be .

[Rayla_Felana]

I do not like Obsidian and to be honest , I think KotoR II would have been better if it was done by someone else !

Kinda like how I love Fallout3 but do not like Fallout Vegas.

 

I completely disagree.

 

KotoR II was a Decent game with over the TOP Sith Lords , they really went the distance with that game .

I liked KotoR II story but the game was not all that great to me, and after being on this game with the trolls on these forums picking apart KotoR and saying KotoRII was better , I feel like I have to root a football team ..............

 

Story was more refined, weapon and armor Modding was more refined, advanced class system, companion system, ACTUAL Jedi robes, influence system, You could truly affect the places you went to, in much greater ways than the first game, Your character wasn't made completely irrelevant by a revelation scene.

 

KotoR was nothing like OT , it was about

*2 Republic Heros that were Jedi who went against the wishes of the Jedi Council and took on the greatest threat of their time.

 

*The 2 Republic Heros with the Jedi that followed them turned Sith and betrayed the Republic

 

*Sithlord was killed or thought to be killed by his apprentic , in which he turns back to light and cleans kills the New Sithlord his former apprentic.

 

^ How is that anything or in anyway like OT ? I have said this before on the Revan Hate threads and it seems the same crap is being said on here .

 

You didn't even write the story of the game, just the back story, AND you are being way too literal.

 

Revelation scene = 'No I am your father'.

 

A nobody turns into a great Jedi Knight = Luke Skywalker.

 

Malak's Sith Empire = Galactic Empire, seriously same style of Ships and troopers, not to mention Malak himself resembles Vader somewhat.

 

And the back story is literally Vader's own backstory with the name Revan plastered on.

 

Revan was a great Jedi Knight and General that stopped the Mandalorians and then turned to the Dark Side.

 

Anakin Skywalker was a Great Jedi Knight and general that stopped the Separatists and then became Darth Vader.

 

Revan and Bastila, clearly resembles Han and Leia.

 

T3-M4 and HJK-47? guess what?

 

Want me to carry on?

 

KotoR was more awarded than KotoR2 and had a greater impact on the StarWars Series ! Not to mention if it wasn't for KotoR , KotoR 2 would have never came to be .

 

By that logic, Titanic and Avatar, etc...are the best movies ever, Call of Duty is the best game series ever and Twilight by virtue of being extremely popular is best ever, along with Justin Bieber in music.

 

Oh and by that last bit of logic, A New Hope novel > All.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Malastare]

Ugh. Why do people insist on proving how unique they are by coloring their posts? It just makes it a pain when I have to fix it...

 

Anyway, your comparison is... heavily colored by your own bias.

 

You didn't even write the story of the game, just the back story, AND you are being way too literal.

 

...and you in turn, are being far too accepting of vague similarities.

 

Revelation scene = 'No I am your father'.

 

A nobody turns into a great Jedi Knight = Luke Skywalker.

 

Except it was used for completely different purposes... and in completely different ways... and on characters at different stages in their journey.

 

Luke was a barely trained force sensitive, with who had managed a couple impressive feats through luck/The Force, and thus gained the attention of Vader. For him, the Revelation was intended to help turn him. Story-wise, the purpose is to set up a heroic destiny for the character and explain why they are more important than they appeared.

 

In KoTOR, Revan was a (nearly?) fully trained force prodigy who had already shown himself (or herself) to be a capable fighter. After accomplishing many feats others couldn't, he tracked down Malak and had the Revelation tossed in his face as mockery, in an attempt to weaken his (or her) will to fight. Story-wise, the purpose is to reveal the secret past of the character and justify their rise to prominence.

 

Both were a Big Reveal, but to say they were similar beyond that... is a bit hard to justify.

 

Malak's Sith Empire = Galactic Empire, seriously same style of Ships and troopers

 

I don't see any notable similarity between the Sith toopers in KoTOR and Ep4-6. They wear masks?

 

And the ships are a thematic element that is intended to trigger recognition. Why didn't you mention red lightsabers, too?

 

not to mention Malak himself resembles Vader somewhat.

 

Er... in what way? Maybe you could argue that they look similar if Vader takes his mask off, but that's a pretty silly way to argue.

 

And the back story is literally Vader's own backstory with the name Revan plastered on.

 

Except that Anakin wasn't actually in charge of fighting the Separitists. He was just one of dozens of Jedi doing that... and not even a high ranking Jedi. Revan defied the order to fight the Mandalorians, while Anakin was actually told by the Order to fight the Separatists. Revan was a figurehead for the war, Anakin was... not really well known outside the Jedi. After turning, Revan returned as part of a pair of warlords. Anakin returned as an underling enforcer for the new Emperor and Moffs.

 

Revan and Bastila, clearly resembles Han and Leia.

 

Why? Because one is a male and the other is a female and they had children?

 

How are Revan and Han similar? How are Bastila and Leia similar? How is the romance between a Jedi Master/Sith Lord and another Jedi Knight similar to the romance between a lowly smuggler and an strong-willed, noble aristocrat?

 

You'd have a better chance of trying to compare Revan/Bastila to Anakin/Padme, but even that is a waste of your time.

 

T3-M4 and HJK-47? guess what?

 

Uh... no, you're gonna have to help me out here.

 

Because I don't think you've drank enough to suggest that HK-47 and C3-P0 had much in common beyond being non-silver droids which spoke multiple languages.

 

Want me to carry on?

 

No need. You seem to have run out of steam.

 

The issue here is that you're grabbing superficial similarities and not paying any attention to how they are used. It's as silly as claiming that Han and Leia are like Romeo and Juliet. Sure, you can find similarities, but that requires you to completely ignore the fact that the story motivation and themes are completely different.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Malastare

[wrong_turn]

Loved them. KOTOR got me back into Star Wars after getting sort of ambivalent about the whole thing.

[Rayla_Felana]

Ugh. Why do people insist on proving how unique they are by coloring their posts? It just makes it a pain when I have to fix it...

 

Don't like, don't read, that was easy now wasn't it?

 

Except it was used for completely different purposes... and in completely different ways... and on characters at different stages in their journey.

 

Luke was a barely trained force sensitive, with who had managed a couple impressive feats through luck/The Force, and thus gained the attention of Vader. For him, the Revelation was intended to help turn him. Story-wise, the purpose is to set up a heroic destiny for the character and explain why they are more important than they appeared.

 

In KoTOR, Revan was a (nearly?) fully trained force prodigy who had already shown himself (or herself) to be a capable fighter. After accomplishing many feats others couldn't, he tracked down Malak and had the Revelation tossed in his face as mockery, in an attempt to weaken his (or her) will to fight. Story-wise, the purpose is to reveal the secret past of the character and justify their rise to prominence.

 

Both were a Big Reveal, but to say they were similar beyond that... is a bit hard to justify.

 

Yet the revelation scene is apparently the crowning moment of Knights of the Old republic's story, yet all they had done is taken a plot twist somewhat similar to the Vader/Luke plot twist, to demoralize the character and overshadow everything that had happened.

 

I don't see any notable similarity between the Sith toopers in KoTOR and Ep4-6. They wear masks?

 

Both practically white and covered their entire body, how is that not similar?

 

And the ships are a thematic element that is intended to trigger recognition.

 

Yes, a symbol very similar to the widely used Imperial Star Destroyer, almost identical apart from a more alien design.

 

Er... in what way? Maybe you could argue that they look similar if Vader takes his mask off, but that's a pretty silly way to argue.

 

You call it silly, so you can discredit my argument, yet, without his helmet, Malak and Vader have definite similarities.

 

Except that Anakin wasn't actually in charge of fighting the Separitists. He was just one of dozens of Jedi doing that... and not even a high ranking Jedi. Revan defied the order to fight the Mandalorians, while Anakin was actually told by the Order to fight the Separatists. Revan was a figurehead for the war, Anakin was... not really well known outside the Jedi. After turning, Revan returned as part of a pair of warlords. Anakin returned as an underling enforcer for the new Emperor and Moffs.

Anakin Skywalker was the most famous general of the Clone Wars, he was the poster boy of the war effort, and it got to his head multiple times.

 

Also, Vader was very clearly the second in command, Tarkin had partial control over him for a very small amount of time.

 

Why? Because one is a male and the other is a female and they had children?

 

How are Revan and Han similar? How are Bastila and Leia similar? How is the romance between a Jedi Master/Sith Lord and another Jedi Knight similar to the romance between a lowly smuggler and an strong-willed, noble aristocrat?

 

You'd have a better chance of trying to compare Revan/Bastila to Anakin/Padme, but even that is a waste of your time.

 

Their relationship was very similar, it was half the time an argument and half the time romantic, they didn't like each other yet they were attracted to each other.

 

Uh... no, you're gonna have to help me out here.

 

Because I don't think you've drank enough to suggest that HK-47 and C3-P0 had much in common beyond being non-silver droids which spoke multiple languages.

 

So you are telling me an astromech droid and a protocol droid that both lived on the Ebon Hawk has no similarities to, an astromech droid and a protocol droid that both lived on the Millenium Falcon.

No need. You seem to have run out of steam.

 

The issue here is that you're grabbing superficial similarities and not paying any attention to how they are used. It's as silly as claiming that Han and Leia are like Romeo and Juliet. Sure, you can find similarities, but that requires you to completely ignore the fact that the story motivation and themes are completely different.

 

So your argument has been this:

 

"I disagree.

 

I disagree.

 

I disagree.

 

I didn't get that you were comparing the over-all story arc and just about somewhat the characters.

 

I disagree.

 

I disagree.

 

I have no actual argument or reading comprehension clearly.

 

I disagree."

 

Thanks for clarifying.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Darth_Urtani]

KOTOR was awesome, hell, I still play it (and somet times use mods). SWTOR was such a let down

[mefit]

So your argument has been this:

 

"I disagree.

 

I disagree.

 

I disagree.

 

I didn't get that you were comparing the over-all story arc and just about somewhat the characters.

 

I disagree.

 

I disagree.

 

I have no actual argument or reading comprehension clearly.

 

I disagree."

 

Thanks for clarifying.

 

If you read the name "Star Wars" than you'd think KotoR was the same :/

[Rayla_Felana]

If you read the name "Star Wars" than you'd think KotoR was the same :/

 

So making a general observation on the writing style and the over-all structure and arc of the story and claiming it similar to the Original trilogy is beyond believability for you? well clearly I don't see things in a similar fashion.

[Restepor]

Kotor 1&2 are among my all time favorite games. No matter how many times I play I still feel like there's things that I haven't done yet.

[Shiela]

Loved both games but I feel KOTOR 2 gave me more freedom and crafting choices for my weapons and supplies. I wish we could have inreacted more with our companions though. Over all though I'm a big fan!

[Spartanik]

So your argument has been this:

 

"I disagree.

 

I disagree.

 

I disagree.

 

I didn't get that you were comparing the over-all story arc and just about somewhat the characters.

 

I disagree.

 

I disagree.

 

I have no actual argument or reading comprehension clearly.

 

I disagree."

 

Thanks for clarifying.

sight.... you do the exact same thing you are just to sure of yourself to see it aparently.

But this what we get when we debate with people that think they are owners of reason.

 

Again, Fantasy=/=Immature.

 

By your logic, Warhammer 40,000 should be taught in nurseries.

Oh please be real. Its not childish but its made for midle late teenagers its not adult suff. and im in no way saying that is wrong for an adult to like to read those books or that kind of material. And yes Lord of the rings and the hobbit is cleary imature, so what? people of all ages can enjoy it. Doesnt mean Its intelectual work or complex stuff about the human existince and its porpuse or any other philosophical subject or slice of life that makes you think and wonder etc.

 

You comparing warhammer another fantasy setting from a video game to make your point is laughable to say the least.

 

And yes i ignore kreia and i ignore the whole game of kotor 2 cleary, just because i didnt like the way the story unfolds it makes me short sighted and not inteligent and wrong and you cleary right because you are the god of reason and god of lore as you deem it so. And your ever need in this threads to make feel on to other posters and their opinions your superiority logic and reason, its making me feel sorry for you.

But please if its so important to you then you win. Hope you be happy now.

Wont stop me from posting what i felt about the games. I loved to play kotor 2 in manny ways, there were more features in all aspects yes. But story telling it wasnt their major acomplishment, that was what i felt and think of the game. As Gamer.

And yes fantasy fiction is great, but its not meant to be complex of any way, comparing warhamer to works such war and piece, sidartha, blindness i dont know, so manny films and stuf pop to mind that are much more substancial, is unthinkable. when i said imature or childish i didnt had bob the builder or noddy in mind... But that is besides the point.

 

 

Imo i played both games alot of times in the past kotor and kotor 2, i like then both alot, in story telling Kotor caused more of an impact, and you say that the big revalatin makes you character irrelevant, i think other wise, knowing that you are revan is a plot twist, and in fact makes your character even more relevant in the story not otherwise. that is the way i see it.

Kotor 2 tried to be diferent in a star wars setting, imo they tried and become lost a bit in the process, but that might be because of no real closure in the end.

kreia answering your questions it isnt closure enough even more when some of her answers are vague, its pretty much like the kid from mass effect 3. I recall i played kotor 2 much more due of gameplay mechanics as well, it is great game, but imo lacked sense of acomplishment, that is what i felt when i first finish the game for the first time. And there is nothing you can say that will change that.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Spartanik

[Sewerus]

both kotor games were my favorite xbox games ever!!

 

How could you done this to those games, Games should be played on pc only.

 

You have more options, more things you can do with it.

 

Kotor 1 and kotor 2 had great modding community.

 

Playing on console takes you out of it.

 

Never could understand that.

 

It is like playing morrowind, oblivion and skyrim on a console.

 

To tell truly you wasted your money buying those games on console.

 

Games look better on pc always, if you have decent pc after all.

 

Months upon months I was playing with mods for kotor 1 and kotor 2.

 

Damn shame, damn shame that you wasted time playing those games on a console.

 

PC is so much pleasent experience.

[DeathDiciple]

Loved both, tho Kotor1 is still my favorite. Possibly because of all the bugfest in Kotor2 early on but dunno, it just feels it has better immersion.

[the_nerfherder]

Beat both games numerous times. Wish Swtor had more of a KOTOR feel to it.

[DawgPoundSwag]

LOL @ the silly fanboi flaming

 

Story - KoTOR>TSL

 

Gameplay - KoTOR<TSL

[Philangelus]

both kotor games were my favorite xbox games ever!!

 

Absolutely!! The reason I am playing TOR is because of those games. This is my first MMO and so far I am really digging it. I have to say though, that Im not getting that feeling I had when playing those games. I am not sure what it is. Perhaps its the PVP aspect that makes the story side or PVE meaningless. I do like the usage of some of the music from those games, especially KOTOR 2. I am hoping in the next patch, perhaps 1.3 we can get an HK for a companion. And more Revan and Exile backstory!!!!!!

[Philangelus]

Beat both games numerous times. Wish Swtor had more of a KOTOR feel to it.

 

Yes! I know what you mean. I will never get tired of those games. They are special to me and always will be. I think the main reason KOTOR is so popular with true hardcore fans of Star Wars is because the prequels were disappointing. The Old Republic era is WAY more interesting in my opinion.