Why does everyone like easy mode?

[Newbrax]

Oh... I guess because it's easy.

 

What's happening to MMO's? Everything has become so easy/uncompetitive and the majority are completely okay with it.

 

Operations are a joke. They are unthinkably easy and the bosses just crap purple gear all over the place when they die, it's like a pinata.

 

In PvP all you do is hop in a WZ and complete it (regardless of how you perform, mind you) and load up on valor, comms and wins for your daily/weekly grab bags of PvP gear. Where is the competition?

 

I fear MMO's have gone mainstream and are losing their core values as a genre. Am I alone on this? Am I the only one that wants the difficulty and competition levels cranked way the hell up in this game? Everything is so easy mode it hurts to play.

 

**EDIT** I have a career and work 42 hours a week with a girlfriend (soon to be wife) and family. This is not an argument. Maybe it is for some but nothing in the world takes the competitive nature and hard working attitude out of me. I apply it to everything I do.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Newbrax

[Endel]

I fear MMO's have gone mainstream and are losing their core values as a genre. Am I alone on this? Am I the only one that wants the difficulty and competition levels cranked way the hell up in this game? Everything is so easy mode it hurts to play.

 

You are not alone.

 

Unfortunately that is the direction MMO's will take. The crybabies that cry (and are the most vocal group of subscribers) are the biggest group atm it seems, so to keep the income, game companies will cater to them and their "i wan't everything NOW and for free' attitude.

 

SW:TOR is the best example of this new direction.

 

And i thought LOTRO was already an easy game but "easy" got a new meaning with sw:tor.

 

I still like to pvp here tho, so will wait and see what 1.2 will bring us.

[ZDProletariat]

Their core values as MMOs? lol and what pray tell are these core values that are lost? And how were they decided that they are the core values?

Just face it, MMOs are followed just about every genre and business model and "core value." There is nothing central to MMOs except multiple people play it simultaneously. That's it.

[Frostbyt]

awe someone please feed these trolls, they're hungry

[DariuszPol]

Oh... I guess because it's easy.

 

What's happening to MMO's? Everything has become so easy/uncompetitive and the majority are completely okay with it.

 

Operations are a joke. They are unthinkably easy and the bosses just crap purple gear all over the place when they die, it's like a pinata.

 

In PvP all you do is hop in a WZ and complete it (regardless of how you perform, mind you) and load up on valor, comms and wins for your daily/weekly grab bags of PvP gear. Where is the competition?

 

I fear MMO's have gone mainstream and are losing their core values as a genre. Am I alone on this? Am I the only one that wants the difficulty and competition levels cranked way the hell up in this game? Everything is so easy mode it hurts to play.

 

Nothing like that. MMO are for nerds that sit and play 8 hours a day, have no life, no friends, no girlfriend etc. It's not about competition, better or worst skills or ANYTHING. It's just about how much time you invest in the game.

 

That would work years ago but not today. Today people that was 15 are not 22 or more. They have life, they have jobs, kids, they have loot of stuff going on.

I could spend 4-5 hours playing some game few years ago. Now I'm happy when I can spend 2-3. And often it's just 1 or maybe 2 and not every day.

 

So keeping MMO like they were when only time invested into the game matter would only end up ME going somewhere else. Simple right ? If I can have fun in PVP because every nolife outgear me then what is the point ? If I can join Operation / Raid because I didn't spend last half a year gearing myself then what I should do ? No point playing.

 

Problem is that people +20 years old are the ones with the job, money and age that know what a PC GAME is. So we pay and play. Younger people MUST rely on their parents and not every parent want to pay so their child will waste their life on computer game. But older people don't.

 

This is why stuff in MMO are easier to get game after game. Because we don't have too much time to invest. And I don't see it at bad thing. This way:

 

~ I can fight in PVP just like any nerd and only our skills will matter in a fight. If PVP is gear based nerd will only win because you wasted more of your life on games while I was producing new generation of people with some nice girl. If gear is easy accessible then I can get it and fight on equal terms.

~ I can fight in PVE just like any nerd because mobs will not 2-shot me. This way I can play with my friends that spend more time with the game without problems.

~ I can log in and play doing what I want and not spending time farming gear and other stuff so I could have some fun.

 

That's the only change. You have fun with the game. They removing part when you "work your ***" so you can have fun. You have it now. Don't see any problem with that. Only wish for me is that MMO should be more complex to provide rich experience. Killing mobs for 5 years ? No thank you. Last time I tried themepark MMO like that - it last around 3-4 monts. Same will happen to TOR.

 

Sandbox + Themepark == GOOD MMO. This is how they make Guild Wars 2 that I will check next.

Edited March 15, 2012 by DariuszPol

[Ihak]

In principle I agree. However I would suggest that doing it this way has greater mass appeal especially for those who like MMOs but don't have the time to repeatedly run WZs, FPs because of poor game play or because people (hard core MMOers) not letting you join Raids unless you have run it before with the right tactics and so on.

 

With the larger appeal they will be the necessity to make the game playable for a wider range of player skills/abilities and players who are not going to spend every waking hour levelling, raiding and kitting out their characters. Just because I can't spend all my time on the game I don't want to miss out on aspects such as these. To this end I think the game is nicely setup but maybe some things could do with a tweak when it come to difficulty.

 

Just a thought. What you think?

[Blasphemerr]

What MMO could you have come from that is NOT easy mode?

[Endel]

What MMO could you have come from that is NOT easy mode?

 

EVE Online

Edited March 15, 2012 by Endel

[Crazylor]

You are not alone.

 

Unfortunately that is the direction MMO's will take. The crybabies that cry (and are the most vocal group of subscribers) are the biggest group atm it seems, so to keep the income, game companies will cater to them and their "i wan't everything NOW and for free' attitude.

 

SW:TOR is the best example of this new direction.

 

And i thought LOTRO was already an easy game but "easy" got a new meaning with sw:tor.

 

I still like to pvp here tho, so will wait and see what 1.2 will bring us.

 

I disagree, they aren't the biggest group, just the most vocal.

[Blasphemerr]

EVE Online

 

The first M stands for MASSIVELY.

[Endel]

The first M stands for MASSIVELY.

 

And you are trying to tell me that EVE is not Massive Multiplayer? Can't think of more massive multiplayer online game out there.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Endel

[Battilea]

Oh... I guess because it's easy.

 

What's happening to MMO's? Everything has become so easy/uncompetitive and the majority are completely okay with it.

 

The thing to keep in mind is that for much of that majority, it isn't super easy. They aren't good at min/maxing. They don't invest time outside of the game doing lots of research. They don't even figure out their own strategies for most boss fights. So that's one half of it.

 

The other half is that they don't play that much but still want to feel like they are making progress.

 

Operations are a joke. They are unthinkably easy and the bosses just crap purple gear all over the place when they die, it's like a pinata.

 

Yup, but most casuals would have issues with hard modes. And, well, normal mode? That drops stuff you get in single group content. They are trainers, to teach people some of the basic fight mechanics, not really operations.

 

Personally, I'm not a big fan of them, the normal mode ops, mostly because they, along with easy mode PvP gear, remove the incentive for people to do single group content, meaning that there's very little to do in this game most nights for someone who prefers PvE.

 

In PvP all you do is hop in a WZ and complete it (regardless of how you perform, mind you) and load up on valor, comms and wins for your daily/weekly grab bags of PvP gear. Where is the competition?

 

The competition is about winning. And most of the time, people are trying to win. At least some of them. Huttball has a bit of a learning curve, which hampers people. And, keep in mind, if they aren't hardcore types, even of the time starved power gamer type, they won't be as quick to pick things up, so what you learn in 2 hours will take them 6...and that 6 is spread out over days.

 

Honestly, if winning was required to gear up, then pre-mades and such would discourage newer players and drive them away from PvP. Especially when you combine it with the attitude of certain hardcore types. Then the PvPers don't have enough people to PvP with and they begin to complain.

 

I fear MMO's have gone mainstream and are losing their core values as a genre. Am I alone on this? Am I the only one that wants the difficulty and competition levels cranked way the hell up in this game? Everything is so easy mode it hurts to play.

 

MMOs have been taking steps backward right from the start.

 

Now, I'm not just talking about content there. Sure, it seemed like EQ had a lot to do when it launched, but really, it was mostly because we, as players, didn't have a clue and hadn't come up with the idea of "the game begins at max level" that came with raiding. No, we had to figure out basic concepts, learn the value of CC, downtime, all sorts of things. And it took us a lot longer to level and we did it with a lot less complaining. Content, on the whole, has always been a bit lacking, though even that has taken a step backwards. Old school MMOs generally had 2 advancement locations per level, so you could level 2 different characters with very little overlap. Newer ones tend to only have one.

 

No, I'm talking about scale, epicness, factions, things they tried to do like make religion matter, that sort of thing. And I miss that. The newer ones just aren't as ambitious. Although, really, if you look at how much EQ tried to have, well, it is quite impressive.

 

That said, I have no desire to return to a lot of the crap from those days. I don't miss running 30 minutes to a location. Or long corpse recoveries. I might have made some good friends on those, but I still don't miss them.

 

Anyway, I'm a niche market myself. My preferred type of content is progression through hard, single group content. That's a market segment MMOs have pretty much always ignored, though EQ did have a bit of it in Omens of War, I believe it was. But, on the whole, single group content is for casuals as far as MMO designers are concerned. And now, well, that same thought is being applied to raids. Cater to the largest demographic. Welcome to my world, in every MMO. And I don't mind them catering to that majority. Just wish they'd cater a bit to my minority as well.

 

But hey, you can make the game more challenging if you want, like some players already do, by doing things like 4 or 5 man 8-man ops. The option is there. Odds are you won't bother though. Easier with the full group, don't want to leave people out, that sort of thing.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Battilea

[DariuszPol]

In principle I agree. However I would suggest that doing it this way has greater mass appeal especially for those who like MMOs but don't have the time to repeatedly run WZs, FPs because of poor game play or because people (hard core MMOers) not letting you join Raids unless you have run it before with the right tactics and so on.

 

With the larger appeal they will be the necessity to make the game playable for a wider range of player skills/abilities and players who are not going to spend every waking hour levelling, raiding and kitting out their characters. Just because I can't spend all my time on the game I don't want to miss out on aspects such as these. To this end I think the game is nicely setup but maybe some things could do with a tweak when it come to difficulty.

 

Just a thought. What you think?

 

I think that there should be content for all. Easy mode. Content that require you to play your character and play it good. Like in current Operations etc. And hard mode content. Not current content but tweaked. Real hard mode.

 

Where you have bosses than can anihilate team if they don't have great team play. Where you have puzzles that can't be solved just by anyone. That require some brain to do them EVEN if you know how they work and how they could be solved.

 

Also BW COULD thinkg about cross server operations with dungeon master.

~ cross server so you won't need 1 employee per server to manage them. Just few employees. It will end up in longer queues but it still could be really fun if you get there.

~ with dungeon master that will do some unexpected things. Turn off lights. Spam some monsters. Put a boss in unexpected situation, build tension etc.

~ with complex map and ability to close / open paths.

~ with tools that would allow to create some quick story behind scenerio.

 

Or make a tools for players so we could actually join some instance where ONE of us take a roll of a master AND others play the scenerio. Then give players ability to VOTE on them.

 

This would create player driven content and with ability to vote + / - on the player - people with talent would emerge from them.

 

Something like that. Final idea is that scenerio with actual dungeon master could be far more challenging and interesting than some stupid Operation that we seen 20 times before.

[Sparcrypt]

I do kinda miss the old ways of OMG THE GRINDING IT BURNS IT BURNS SO BAD!

 

But there was fun there.. otherwise we wouldn't have done it. But yeah, MMOs are becoming much much easier than ever before. I personally never liked the 'put in time, get rewards' method, I like actual skill based rewards (having a lot of free time is not skill) so it would be nice to see more of that.

[Battilea]

This is why stuff in MMO are easier to get game after game. Because we don't have too much time to invest. And I don't see it at bad thing. This way:

 

~ I can fight in PVP just like any nerd and only our skills will matter in a fight. If PVP is gear based nerd will only win because you wasted more of your life on games while I was producing new generation of people with some nice girl. If gear is easy accessible then I can get it and fight on equal terms.

 

Now, to be fair, most PvPers are not nerds. They are college students, frat boys and such, maybe military, with a must win, must talk trash attitude.

[DariuszPol]

The first M stands for MASSIVELY.

 

How many people at most you saw in TOR ? I saw 300 people on fleet doing nothing. I saw 200 people on entire planet and that was BIG.

 

While in EVE there was records on BATTLES where 500-1000 ships PER SIDE fight with each other. My friend once told me when I join the EVE that they once have battle with more than 3000 ships. Lag was so big that you could watch TV while fighting. And in EVE with decent PC you can fight with battles between 500 ships.

 

There is 30.000 active players in EVE all the time and there is NO servers there. 30.000 people in ONE UNVIERSE that can talk, trade, fight, explore, mine, craft etc. With player driven economy, open pvp etc.

 

If we talking about MASSIVE I can tell that if we call EVE MASSIVE ONLINE game then we CAN'T CALL that ANY OTHER GAME. Because compare to EVE, everything else is a joke in terms of "MASSIVE".

Edited March 15, 2012 by DariuszPol

[BeeSiK]

EVE Online

 

how is eve hard? considering i was in DPS and i love eve....i find nothing hard about eve lvl 5 missions were cake with the right set up..infact if u can do research and find the right people to play with...then any game is easy...the only "hard" thing about an online game is people are too reluctant to speak, too afraid of rejection

[RenegadeSLX]

Oh... I guess because it's easy.

 

What's happening to MMO's? Everything has become so easy/uncompetitive and the majority are completely okay with it.

 

Operations are a joke. They are unthinkably easy and the bosses just crap purple gear all over the place when they die, it's like a pinata.

 

In PvP all you do is hop in a WZ and complete it (regardless of how you perform, mind you) and load up on valor, comms and wins for your daily/weekly grab bags of PvP gear. Where is the competition?

 

I fear MMO's have gone mainstream and are losing their core values as a genre. Am I alone on this? Am I the only one that wants the difficulty and competition levels cranked way the hell up in this game? Everything is so easy mode it hurts to play.

 

Everyone is fat and lazy. So they play like fat lazy people.

[Endel]

how is eve hard? considering i was in DPS and i love eve....i find nothing hard about eve lvl 5 missions were cake with the right set up..infact if u can do research and find the right people to play with...then any game is easy...the only "hard" thing about an online game is people are too reluctant to speak, too afraid of rejection

 

EVE as a whole is much harder and 100 times more complex than sw:tor. You narrowed it to missions which ofc can be done normally just like a solo quest/mission in every MMO can be soloed right?

Edited March 15, 2012 by Endel

[Newbrax]

I wouldn't care if there were 1000+ people better geared with a better team than me. I would be excited to try and beat them. I wouldn't care if they had better gear or not or if they were a premade or not. It's the challenge that makes multiplayer games exciting for me. Sadly, the mentality I have is an extreme minority amongst modern day players.

[Harakir]

Incase you dint know we are humans , we dont walk till 1 year life , we are born lazy so we play lazy.

 

And to be honest hard doesnt mean killing the same monsters for 3 years hoping for a drop , that means grind fest if you want some of that just research any Korean MMO.

[fungihoujo]

I wouldn't care if there were 1000+ people better geared with a better team than me. I would be excited to try and beat them. I wouldn't care if they had better gear or not or if they were a premade or not. It's the challenge that makes multiplayer games exciting for me. Sadly, the mentality I have is an extreme minority amongst modern day players.

 

If you can beat a player who's better geared than you, it means they're a bad player- personally, I'd rather be trying to beat players as good as I am with the same gear, then trying to beat terrible players with better gear.

 

The only thing that is easy mode, is what the players with the best gear get against everyone else- and no, don't try to tell me that players with full BM are on an even playing field as new 50s- they are not. And I'm not saying this is an underperformer- I tend to top healing/damage charts, and I'm at rank 55 (I alt a great deal, if I focused on only a main I'd be around rank 75) with full champ gear (which is pretty competitive on my server as, other than premades, there's usually an average of 3 BMs per game per side, so I fall in the middle for gear).

 

Sure, it can be fun to wtfpwn guys, but that is NOT competitive play whatsoever, and getting gear doesn't mean 'easy' or 'hard', it means time consuming right now (albeit less so than older mmos).

 

 

Competitive play comes soon, but think about it this way.

 

Do NHL or NBA or NFL players, the most competitive in the world, have substantial gear advantages? No- they have skill differences, teamwork differences, and likely some teams have pretty the budgets to buy better players/better training- but in the end, when they get on that field, it is just teamwork/skill.

 

RTS games, same deal- MOBA tournies, same deal- FPS tournies, same deal.

 

And even when you get to competitive WoW tournies and other mmo tournies- do you think they give some teams gear advantages over others? No, because that's not competitive- any serious pvper will tell you that's not competitive.

 

 

So, OP, why are you asking for easy mode?

[Ruuprect]

They have to create games that cater to the lowest common denominator. The majority of people are terrible at mechanics and especially pvp. If they make it too hard most people will just quit because they want easy mode and not to have to work for anything.

 

I mean really, I already see posts about questing being too hard. Most of the complaints I see are that people cant just walk through things without dying. There were numerous posts about the length of time you have to wait if you die 3+ times (Cant remeber exactly as I have never had this happen) and then they have to wait 10 minutes to res at thier location. It seems for some reason that it does not even occur to people that they could just res at the medcenter and run back. I mean really these guys will wait out the 10 minutes instead of running back, which would probably take them like 2 minutes. That is how lazy and ez mode people have gotten.

[Slurmez]

You are not alone.

 

Unfortunately that is the direction MMO's will take. The crybabies that cry (and are the most vocal group of subscribers) are the biggest group atm it seems, so to keep the income, game companies will cater to them and their "i wan't everything NOW and for free' attitude.

 

SW:TOR is the best example of this new direction.

 

And i thought LOTRO was already an easy game but "easy" got a new meaning with sw:tor.

 

I still like to pvp here tho, so will wait and see what 1.2 will bring us.

 

sadly pandering to whiners doesnt keep the income at all, people only think they want the stuff when what they really want is to be in the process of getting it. Once they acheive it they get bored and move on. Its pretty indicative of most things today as they just dont seem to plan out a long term longevity strategy. Already server populations have vanished.

[Barrechor]

how is eve hard? considering i was in DPS and i love eve....i find nothing hard about eve lvl 5 missions were cake with the right set up..infact if u can do research and find the right people to play with...then any game is easy...the only "hard" thing about an online game is people are too reluctant to speak, too afraid of rejection

 

EVE PvE is easy, but its garbage. Go and do EVE PvP and come back with the same opinion.

 

EVE PvP was once the greatest PvP experience in any game. Its been ruined by CCP, but anyone who played EVE (Properly) knows the PvP was amazing, and anyone who says otherwise either never played it or was just terrible.

 

As much as I hate EVE now and for as much as I hate CCP. EVE is still my most memorable gaming experience to date by a long, long way.

 

5 years of nullsec PvP left a lasting memory.