Poor vanguard...

[Azrienov]

Tanks specifically. They get the shaft. The tank vanguard tree is useless in pvp. Once you hit charge(THE reason to go into the tree at all...) the rest is garbage. The system in place works by recycling ammo based on using generation abilities, and shielding. Alot of the tree boosts shielding, and armoring. And guess what... armor is highly overrated in pvp, most attacks penetrate a significant portion of it, or ignore it completely(elemental/internal). Shields only work on non-force/tech attacks. You effectively gutted the defensive mechanisms of the game, then based a pvp archetype on them specifically. That takes a massively bad case of being stupid not to see that.

 

Vanguard tanks are left to create hybrids, because they're not going to be the charge leading guys for pvp. Leave that to better designed, more intelligently created classes. Instead, I personally find myself settling into a mediocre role of partial dps/tank. This role only works when no one is looking at me personally. If that happens, I'm ****ed. My cooldowns are a bad joke(adrenaline rush), and my mobility is hosed down. If I charge a target, I get immediately knocked back. No immunity like the warrior has. He's a more dynamic class. No prior positioning like an assassin tank, who has the advantage of mobility and my pull(and that nifty vanish). These are all classes that do well for themselves.

 

But the vanguard trooper? I haven't seen one outside of myself that bothers with the defensive stats. No point. You get more out of the DPS hybrid than the defenses. The designer behind the trooper failed to take into account the pvp mechanisms, and left us with a bungled pvp creature. A failure. Instead of seeing tanks, we get cookie cutter hybrids that lack the impressive flair of their mirror.

 

Clearly, someone dropped the ball there.

[Mirdthestrill]

Any type of vanguard completely stomps over any other class 1v1. I don't think you're in a position to complain.

[Obie_Wan]

I know your pain.

 

Defense Guardians have this little talent called "Courage", it is supposed to reduce the cost of our attacks because Soresu absolutely destroys our focus generation.

 

Now for Courage to work we need to either "dodge, parry, resist, or shield". In order words, we need our tank stats to work very well and often.

 

Guess how good tank stats work in PVP?

 

...Yeah.

[Mirdthestrill]

I know your pain.

 

Defense Guardians have this little talent called "Courage", it is supposed to reduce the cost of our attacks because Soresu absolutely destroys our focus generation.

 

Now for Courage to work we need to either "dodge, parry, resist, or shield". In order words, we need our tank stats to work very well and often.

 

Guess how good tank stats work in PVP?

 

...Yeah.

 

Courage alone will not save you!

[Demarcc]

Any type of vanguard completely stomps over any other class 1v1. I don't think you're in a position to complain.

 

I would'ent go THAT far.

 

Vanguards can build wicked Pvp specs though that will destroy most other classes very quickly. Tanking ATM is flawed in PvP so my suggestion .. drop the tanking tree go DPS and destroy folks .. its alot of fun. Your pretty squishy yes .. but what you lose in mitigation you MORE than make up for in pure awesome killing power.

 

Try it.

[cashogy]

Courage alone will not save you!

 

well played

[Mirdthestrill]

well played

 

Thank you.

[jimmyquinella]

Darn! I thought this would be a post on how cool Vanguard the MMO could have been.

[Nmaharg]

Someomes never ran into a good 21/2/18 vanguard.

[Evuke]

then change spec to the pyro equivalent and be the best pvp class in the game, nobody is forcing u to stay tank spec.

 

it's pretty common knowledge that tanks don't work in pvp because armor/mitigation doesn't work properly with so many yellow damage abilities and crits ignoring it.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Evuke

[Agemnon]

Ever think that tanks weren't meant for PvP?

[Xinika]

Anyone complaining about vanguards' viability are just completely clueless.

[Grubfist]

Tanks specifically. They get the shaft. The tank vanguard tree is useless in pvp. Once you hit charge(THE reason to go into the tree at all...) the rest is garbage. The system in place works by recycling ammo based on using generation abilities, and shielding. Alot of the tree boosts shielding, and armoring. And guess what... armor is highly overrated in pvp, most attacks penetrate a significant portion of it, or ignore it completely(elemental/internal). Shields only work on non-force/tech attacks. You effectively gutted the defensive mechanisms of the game, then based a pvp archetype on them specifically. That takes a massively bad case of being stupid not to see that.

 

Vanguard tanks are left to create hybrids, because they're not going to be the charge leading guys for pvp. Leave that to better designed, more intelligently created classes. Instead, I personally find myself settling into a mediocre role of partial dps/tank. This role only works when no one is looking at me personally. If that happens, I'm ****ed. My cooldowns are a bad joke(adrenaline rush), and my mobility is hosed down. If I charge a target, I get immediately knocked back. No immunity like the warrior has. He's a more dynamic class. No prior positioning like an assassin tank, who has the advantage of mobility and my pull(and that nifty vanish). These are all classes that do well for themselves.

 

But the vanguard trooper? I haven't seen one outside of myself that bothers with the defensive stats. No point. You get more out of the DPS hybrid than the defenses. The designer behind the trooper failed to take into account the pvp mechanisms, and left us with a bungled pvp creature. A failure. Instead of seeing tanks, we get cookie cutter hybrids that lack the impressive flair of their mirror.

 

Clearly, someone dropped the ball there.

 

1. Armor is a huge deal in PvP, there's not much armor pen, and the highet armor pen is from a Vanguard's High Impact Bolt.

 

2. Defensive stats, while not always preferred, will go a long way for helping your pvp survivability. Many ACs use melee and ranged attacks. Not al of them, but a significant amount (Marauder, Juggernaut, Sniper, and the dreaded Rail Shot from Bounty Hunters)

 

3. You can shield while stunned.

 

4. You can dodge/parry and shield while channeling.

 

5. Vanguards kick serious ***.

 

6. Stop hybriding. It makes you terrible at both damage and survivability. Let your healers keep you up. You either focus on being a dps, or focus on keeping your teammates alive with guard and taunts and stuns. AKA, PERFORM YOUR ROLE, stop trying to be an unstoppable solo god and play your particular part WELL, your team will cover your weaknesses, that's why there are a variety of classes.

[Azrienov]

Any type of vanguard completely stomps over any other class 1v1. I don't think you're in a position to complain.

 

Haven't played the class have ya?

[Azrienov]

Anyone complaining about vanguards' viability are just completely clueless.

 

Read the article. I'm complaining about the tank. Not the pyro.

[Azrienov]

Ever think that tanks weren't meant for PvP?

 

Not once, considering how many MMOs I've played where they are excellent for controlling crowds, mitigating damage bursts, and soaking damage up.

[Azrienov]

6. Stop hybriding. It makes you terrible at both damage and survivability. Let your healers keep you up. You either focus on being a dps, or focus on keeping your teammates alive with guard and taunts and stuns. AKA, PERFORM YOUR ROLE, stop trying to be an unstoppable solo god and play your particular part WELL, your team will cover your weaknesses, that's why there are a variety of classes.

 

I perform the role fine as long as I'm not being targeted. When I am targeted, I take way too much damage to be considered a tank. I'm not pleased with the idea of being the "taunt/guard bot" archetype.

[Draeb]

My Vanguard bathes in the acid pits of Huttball.

[Varicite]

Any type of vanguard completely stomps over any other class 1v1. I don't think you're in a position to complain.

 

You're right, ANY TYPE of Vanguard absolutely demolishes every single class in the game. All of them. When you create a Vanguard, the game actually tells you that you beat SWTOR and rolls the credits.

 

It's pretty awesome.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Varicite

[Xinika]

My Vanguard bathes in the acid pits of Huttball.

 

I lol'd. Well done.

[Ryotknife]

play a hybrid tank then OP. tanks are not meant to...well..tank in pvp. they are utility bots, bringing more tools than their dps counterparts and are able to turn someone ELSE into a true tank.

[Eyevan]

Tanks specifically. They get the shaft. The tank vanguard tree is useless in pvp. Once you hit charge(THE reason to go into the tree at all...) the rest is garbage. The system in place works by recycling ammo based on using generation abilities, and shielding. Alot of the tree boosts shielding, and armoring. And guess what... armor is highly overrated in pvp, most attacks penetrate a significant portion of it, or ignore it completely(elemental/internal). Shields only work on non-force/tech attacks. You effectively gutted the defensive mechanisms of the game, then based a pvp archetype on them specifically. That takes a massively bad case of being stupid not to see that.

 

Vanguard tanks are left to create hybrids, because they're not going to be the charge leading guys for pvp. Leave that to better designed, more intelligently created classes. Instead, I personally find myself settling into a mediocre role of partial dps/tank. This role only works when no one is looking at me personally. If that happens, I'm ****ed. My cooldowns are a bad joke(adrenaline rush), and my mobility is hosed down. If I charge a target, I get immediately knocked back. No immunity like the warrior has. He's a more dynamic class. No prior positioning like an assassin tank, who has the advantage of mobility and my pull(and that nifty vanish). These are all classes that do well for themselves.

 

But the vanguard trooper? I haven't seen one outside of myself that bothers with the defensive stats. No point. You get more out of the DPS hybrid than the defenses. The designer behind the trooper failed to take into account the pvp mechanisms, and left us with a bungled pvp creature. A failure. Instead of seeing tanks, we get cookie cutter hybrids that lack the impressive flair of their mirror.

 

Clearly, someone dropped the ball there.

 

Your view seems to be skewed just like the majority of the players in this game do to current state of classes being played at the moment.

 

I think in the near future you will see a change in the current specs.

[Zocat]

If I charge a target, I get immediately knocked back. No immunity like the warrior has. He's a more dynamic class.

 

Guardian / Jugg has no immunity after Force Leap / Charge if he is tank specced.

Unremitting / Unstoppable are point 11 & 12 in the middle tree - to which you will not have access if you go 31 defense / immortal.

 

You cannot compare vanguard pure tanks to guardian hybrids. Well you can - but then my comment is: go hybrid - other classes need to go hybrid as well.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Zocat

[Grubfist]

Guardian / Jugg has no immunity after Force Leap / Charge if he is tank specced.

Unremitting / Unstoppable are point 11 & 12 in the middle tree - to which you will not have access if you go 31 defense / immortal.

 

Alright then! Tactics vanguards can be immune to KB/pulls/slows/roots for 8 seconds out of every 30. There we go. /thread.

[Ryotknife]

Alright then! Tactics vanguards can be immune to KB/pulls/slows/roots for 8 seconds out of every 30. There we go. /thread.

 

tactics vanguards dont exist.

 

shame too, the tree has real potential with a few changes. i remember speccing tactics/advanced prototype when i first hit 50 and laughing when 3-4 sorcs kept chaining their knockback with nothing to show for it while i was carrying the ball.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Ryotknife