Darthater asks BW about engine optimization.

[Mephane]

You know that portion of Ilum, right near the ice tunnel leading to the PvP section of the map? I currently hear a vehicle 'dismount' sound when I ride around there on my speeder (just a random sound, nobody else nearby). When I hear that sound, I can dismount from my speeder as smoothly as mounting/dismounting in WoW. NO LAG at all! But anywhere else in this entire game, holy frame lag Batman. It really puzzles me what about that specific area allows me to dismount without an ounce of stutter.

 

I do admit it has improved since launch though, but not enough to be acceptable.

 

That is really weird. Maybe I'll check this out myself.

 

 

What I suppose is happening when everything locks up for a second upon opening a window or dismounting is that the game probably either loads something from the disc or from the server.

 

But...

 

If it's on the disk, why not keep it loaded? You don't have to unload and reload my companions model and textures everytime it goes away or reappears. You don't have to load the resources for the inventory window, item icons etc. from the hard drive every time I open my inventory.

 

And if it's from the server... why is it loading it synchronously/blockingly? I know the network code is there to load stuff while you can still play without problem, for example when loggin in on the fleet usually it takes some time for all the players to appear, yet I can already walk around, use the GTN etc.

[Goretzu]

 

And PVPers want to be taken seriously when all they do is complain about balancing and what they don't get in PVP.....Some guy in another thread even suggested Biometric should be rewards for PVP...ROFL.

 

 

 

You've got to have balance in PvP, just how it is. (Lol uv got 2lol have lolroflolol balolnce lolin pvp lol just rofl how lol it is lol!1111)

 

 

You've got to have performance too. (lololololol uv glolt 2 have rolf perflolrmance tlollol lol!!!111)

 

[Goretzu]

That is really weird. Maybe I'll check this out myself.

 

 

What I suppose is happening when everything locks up for a second upon opening a window or dismounting is that the game probably either loads something from the disc or from the server.

 

But...

 

If it's on the disk, why not keep it loaded? You don't have to unload and reload my companions model and textures everytime it goes away or reappears. You don't have to load the resources for the inventory window, item icons etc. from the hard drive every time I open my inventory.

 

And if it's from the server... why is it loading it synchronously/blockingly? I know the network code is there to load stuff while you can still play without problem, for example when loggin in on the fleet usually it takes some time for all the players to appear, yet I can already walk around, use the GTN etc.

 

 

 

 

Another strange thing is when loading a zone sometime it loads up, you see your self in game (and can even move about and see it if you're quick), but THEN a loading screen comes up and sits there for 20+ seconds before going away again.

 

I think it's fair to say the game to stand a lot of optimisation, but then being so young it is bound too.

 

What worries me more is that with 1.2 they've basically killed off Ilum and RvR for the foreseeable future (late 2012, 2013, never - who knows?).

 

Which could be an effective admission that they've realised they cannot get the game working will in those circumstances.

[anticept]

If PVPis so abundant and popular...Why are there not THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of players on Ilum huh ... ??? And don't say because of the glitches and hitching....If that was perfect, at best you would have a 100v100 fight at any given time....

 

Because on most peoples rigs it can barely take 20v20 fights like my old setup it produced 0.5-2fps on ilum with fights bigger than that. With the new rig i can get around 30-40fps on 3v2-3 raidgroups but still i got the lagspikes when quests updatad but it didn´t bother as much as trying to cope with less than 1fps.

Not sure how high the population on your server is but doubt there´s enough for 1000v1000 even if all the players would meet up.

 

Well lets say you only ever PVE, just log in and do Flashpoint's and Ops...Ow and craft.

You make creds yes, but you also get Armour degeneration, so yes it cost creds....

What was your point again....Ow you don't have one...

Do you get ANY LOSS in PVP...LOL...No but you get xp, creds comms and valor FOR LOSING LOLROFLROLFLFLL....

 

And PVPers want to be taken seriously when all they do is complain about balancing and what they don't get in PVP.....Some guy in another thread even suggested Biometric should be rewards for PVP...ROFL.

Every single credit sink in this game comes via PVE.

LOL...

sorry i cant stop laughing...

 

Wonder if it´s even possible to make you comprehend that pvp is just an other avenue for leveling up that´s why you get xp , creds , comms and valor do losing side get too much maybe but it´s an american game gotta keep the kids happy.

And let´s be honest the tokens+creds you get from weekly raids or weekly hms are just as abundant as the rewards from pvping and what you gotta kills few bosses to get the weekly raid which are ...really not demanding at all my guild cleared all the bosses in EV in our first run and we´re not an good pve guild(extremely casual) not even really over geared just few columni parts mostly modded oranges some rakata ear/implants.

 

And what´s up with this lolrolfkeke if you want to make an point do so writing stuff like that just makes you look like 12yo.

[Samborino]

I don't know of anyone who doesn't get a freeze opening their inventory bag or when the quest/valor updates in Ilum.

 

Every single one of my guildmates has this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEuFZbdJsKk

 

I 100% dont have this issue. I am running an i7 2700k oc'd to 4.5 ghz with Liquid Cooling

 

8 gigs of 1600 corsair ram

 

Radeon HD 6870 1gb

 

I have 120 gig SSD but TOR isnt installed on it, just operating system + games that dont update often

 

Motherboard Asus p8p67 pro rev 3.1

 

 

No issues whatsoever except for when there is 50+ ppl on each side in ilum, even 20v20 i was getting decent framerates late during the night a few weeks ago.

[Mal-Sharran]

Actually, I just went to Ilum, turned on FRAPS, and took a 1920x1080 video of myself smooth dismounting several times, without even 1% frame lag. I turned off all background apps (normally have youtube, skype, e-mail) all running, my machine is beast it should handle it. But the video is like 500MB uncompressed and I don't feel like upping it to youtube right now, would take over an hour :-/

 

*edit* Pulled out my companion, tried again, dismounting took me from 111FPS to 70 for over a full second, and my screen went super choppy. Perhaps that has been my problem the whole time. If I wasn't afraid of being jumped by an Imp with THEIR companion out, I'd forgo my companion all together on Ilum...

Edited March 15, 2012 by Mal-Sharran

[Mal-Sharran]

I 100% dont have this issue. I am running an i7 2700k oc'd to 4.5 ghz with Liquid Cooling

 

8 gigs of 1600 corsair ram

 

Radeon HD 6870 1gb

 

I have 120 gig SSD but TOR isnt installed on it, just operating system + games that dont update often

 

Motherboard Asus p8p67 pro rev 3.1

 

 

No issues whatsoever except for when there is 50+ ppl on each side in ilum, even 20v20 i was getting decent framerates late during the night a few weeks ago.

 

i7 920 @ 4.2GHz, air cooled (4.5 with liquid? Overkill man)

6GB ram

HD6970 2GB

 

And I DO get stuttering when I open my bags or character screen. Every single person I play with does too. I'm willing to bet you haven't noticed it yet, it can be subtle if you aren't looking for it. Try spamming your bags or your character screen open and closed rapidly while moving, I guarantee you you suffer from it as well.

[Samborino]

I agree that some of the people that have this problem probably has to do with some optimization, but i think its blown way out of proportion , as with all games some rigs / brands will run it smoother than others.

 

Also some games run alot hotter and cooling is more important, there was a thread a little while back on this or some other forum, and the guy had a pretty beast rig but he had just moved and his computer was on his carpet + he was using a stock fan for the CPU. He took it off the carpet saw a pretty decent improvement, he replaced the fan with a high end one and saw much much better performance. So sure you could have a beast rig but not be cooling it right or have it in a hot place where it isnt getting enough cooling and the beast rig wont do you any good.

 

Im not saying this is the case with everyone, but their are simple things you can do to improve your performance. Also not everyone is computer adept, some people think they have beast rigs , but really they dont, or they thought they could build a computer and bought a bunch of good parts that dont run well with each other, i see that happen all the time.

 

So although im not saying that every single person that has FPS / Frame issues is because of this i think a very larger portion the problem is on their end. And as with any game their are some very high end rigs that arent performing well, and it on BW's End, something they need to and are working on. They have an optimization team that is focusing on low and high end problems.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Samborino

[Samborino]

i7 920 @ 4.2GHz, air cooled (4.5 with liquid? Overkill man)

6GB ram

HD6970 2GB

 

And I DO get stuttering when I open my bags or character screen. Every single person I play with does too. I'm willing to bet you haven't noticed it yet, it can be subtle if you aren't looking for it. Try spamming your bags or your character screen open and closed rapidly while moving, I guarantee you you suffer from it as well.

 

Not all liquid cooling is some super expensive cooling solution, mine is a self contained (never have to replace the liquid or anything) system that cost around 100 dollars. It does its job and its quiet (the main reason i got it)

[kisharrr]

I don't know of anyone who doesn't get a freeze opening their inventory bag or when the quest/valor updates in Ilum.

 

Every single one of my guildmates has this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEuFZbdJsKk

 

Both sides are in the wrong here. The plural of anecdote is not data.

 

There are some 2 million players of this game. Your guild has AT MOST 500. Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you have a 500 member guild, and that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM experiences that problem, that's still only 0.025% of the game's population. You cannot possibly extrapolate that minuscule number to anything meaningful.

 

The exact same argument holds true for "my game runs fine and i don't see these problems therefore there are no problems" argument. You may be the isolated case of someone not experiencing a widespread issue. While it's a race to see who is more insignificant, the fact that your game runs fine represents 0.000005% of the population. It is just as laughable for anyone to argue from this position as it is the above.

 

The only people who have any chance of _knowing_ what the statistics are for people having problems with graphics performance are Bioware.

[Samborino]

i7 920 @ 4.2GHz, air cooled (4.5 with liquid? Overkill man)

6GB ram

HD6970 2GB

 

And I DO get stuttering when I open my bags or character screen. Every single person I play with does too. I'm willing to bet you haven't noticed it yet, it can be subtle if you aren't looking for it. Try spamming your bags or your character screen open and closed rapidly while moving, I guarantee you you suffer from it as well.

 

I logged on and tried multiple times in a few different areas before posting (alderaan , fleet , belsavis) because i though that it probably was just something i hadnt noticed and i didnt see what you were talking about or what was being shown in the video. Also i have opened my bags or character sheet or crew skils tab while moving 1000's upon 1000's of times and it definitely would have been something i would have noticed , especially now that i have retested it just now to make sure.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Samborino

[dashspeed]

Source: http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/19981-guild-summit-interview-with-daniel-erickson/page-2

 

What strikes me is the first sentence:

 

Q: Where are you on game engine optimizations? Because I currently get about 5 to 10 frames per second on Alderaan and about 20 in Huttball and I have a PC that can run Crysis 2 at ultra. With no real explanation on what is going on.

 

A: "Wow. You should do some investigation, because that is not typical. [...]

 

HE needs to do some investigation ? Really Daniel ? The CUSTOMER should investigate issues with your engine ? You still officially blame it on OUR RIGS ?

 

Will this ever end ? o.O

 

Yes, he does, because that kind of statement sounds more of a lie than anything else. Crysis on ultra, but 5 fps on Alderan? Sounds like BS to me.

 

Unless he can "run" Crysis 2 on ultra with 1fps.

Edited March 15, 2012 by dashspeed

[Deathmond]

game optimization is a huge joke

[kidatwood]

So I read the artical. But I don't get your point op. He goes on to say that There putting. In options to help. Run it on lower end Machines.

[owenthorn]

read it again, and don't read into it, he says 'acceptable" to who's acceptable standards does he compare it to??? and he never spoke of what specs the computer had and how many FPS he was getting, more BS from BW about the crappy engine those choose to use

[Fentz]

Because it's not obvious, since more people are not having those problems. If every single person had problems, it's the engine.

 

pretty sure every single player gets their game slowed down by opening their inventory etc, if you want a more clear showcase of it, just spam b and you'll see

[Kryttos]

Right now I'm on hoth out in the open. Running 45-70fps

 

Quad Core Q6600 3.0ghz

4GB DDR2 ram

Radeon HD6850

SATA I hard drive.

 

but i do get the stuttering when opening or closing UI windows. WZ i usually never have trouble. fleet gets a bit slow on the FPS

[juanni]

My question is, why do you need to spam open your inventory or character screen anyway? Do you like the sound effect that much?

[Samborino]

Right now I'm on hoth out in the open. Running 45-70fps

 

Quad Core Q6600 3.0ghz

4GB DDR2 ram

Radeon HD6850

SATA I hard drive.

 

but i do get the stuttering when opening or closing UI windows. WZ i usually never have trouble. fleet gets a bit slow on the FPS

 

Yea i would expect UI stuttering with a 5-6 year old processor and ddr2 ram (no offense, its just what your system is)

 

Your Framerate on hoth is impressive, is it similair in alderaan? Where many people say they have problems.

 

I tried to stutter my UI in a few different places including alderaan (where my trooper currently is leveling) and i couldnt replicate it. I also just did it with normal use, open and **** every few seconds.

 

Obviously your going to freeze up the UI if you start spamming B again and again like one of the posters above me suggests. With normal use open shut, while moving on a speeder or running, It is fine for me. Ive never noticed a problem at all. I thought that maybe it was just something minimal that i was overlooking so i tried it out before i posted on this thread about an hour ago, and could not replicate the problem WITH normal use. (AKA i wasnt spamming B super fast, because who actually does that? I dont care if it freezes up when you spam B over and over.)

[Kryttos]

Yea i would expect UI stuttering with a 5-6 year old processor and ddr2 ram (no offense, its just what your system is)

 

Your Framerate on hoth is impressive, is it similair in alderaan? Where many people say they have problems.

 

I tried to stutter my UI in a few different places including alderaan (where my trooper currently is leveling) and i couldnt replicate it. I also just did it with normal use, open and **** every few seconds.

 

Obviously your going to freeze up the UI if you start spamming B again and again like one of the posters above me suggests. With normal use open shut, while moving on a speeder or running, It is fine for me. Ive never noticed a problem at all. I thought that maybe it was just something minimal that i was overlooking so i tried it out before i posted on this thread about an hour ago, and could not replicate the problem WITH normal use. (AKA i wasnt spamming B super fast, because who actually does that? I dont care if it freezes up when you spam B over and over.)

 

Yeah its an older computer, but it runs BF3 and SWTOR fairly well. I'm due for a new one eventually.. Probably when this one finally catches fire or something. lol.

 

I remember Everquest 1 had issues and completely changed their UI and fixed it. So who knows.

[kidatwood]

My question is, why do you need to spam open your inventory or character screen anyway? Do you like the sound effect that much?

 

Lol don't knock them they might have an OCD or something.

[Samborino]

Also i noticed that alot of the people that have problems (MOST) have AMD processors. I dont know if that has something to do with it, but most people i see posting about the problem also seem to have an AMD CPU.

 

Obviously that still isnt acceptable, its just an observation.

[Kryttos]

yeah I think mine is more age than architecture. its an Intel Core 2 Quad. from years ago.

[AJediKnight]

My question is, why do you need to spam open your inventory or character screen anyway? Do you like the sound effect that much?

 

So, is this trolling, or do you seriously believe that the lag in those videos is some kind of a big joke? Either way, that's sad, brah.

[Boissi]

I have a 6core amd processor, GF 460gtx and 4gb of ddr3 ram, and the performance for me is appalling. I play with most of the sliders on their lowest possible setting to get bearable fps in warzones, but still the load times are huge, and there are still the occasional fps drops, and honestly the avarage fps is still like 15-30. Opening the inventory etc does cause a hickup, as does getting a kill in ilum. Also, the game starts running slower and slower the longer it is on due to memory leaking. After some hours it will start being almost unplayable, which means it's time to restart the game. Just quitting the game takes like 2-3 minutes at that point.

 

I honestly don't know how people can defend the engine. If a rig that can run every other new game with great fps on very high settings can't properly run this game, then there is something seriously wrong here. It's hardly the fault of the user, is it? The especially weird thing is that people with worse rigs get much better performance.

 

This is really my only problem with the game itself, and because Bioware doesn't even seem aware of the problem, I'm pretty worried that I'll never be able to run this game as well as I should be able to run it.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Boissi