Lack of performance patches - disappointing

[MajikMyst]

So your tell me, both them systems when on ilum. in a big open world battle with more then 40ish people dont drop at all?

 

I never said my FPS doesn't drop.. Please read my post..

 

Also, you only need 24 FPS for motion to look totally smooth.. That is the FPS of a movie.. Sure.. Our FPS drops in some areas and in some situations.. But never below about 35 to 40 fps.. Again all you need is 24 to be smooth as silk..

 

My only point was, there are other things people could be doing besides blaming the engine, which seems to be a main stay for any video game.. Even back in the days of the Quake engine.. People that couldn't run it said was the worst engine in history.. The Unreal engine got much of the same reviews from much of the same people.. As did the more recent Cry engine.. Seems that if your computer can't run it well due to lack of specs.. Blame the engine is the way to go.. Has been for years..

 

There is nothing wrong with the Hero engine.. No.. It is no perfect.. No engine is.. But it isn't the cause of all the FPS issues that people are having.. For that, people need to look no further then their own laptop or desktop computer.. I am sure that doing some upgrades or optimizations there will go a lot further in your gaming performance than it will to complain about the engine..

Edited March 14, 2012 by MajikMyst

[MajikMyst]

We can scream how much the Hero engine sucks but it won't make Bioware fix anything while they are still in denial about how bad 64bit SWTOR runs for many people.

 

Both my computers are 64 bit.. One is Windows 7 and the other is Vista.. No issues here.. There is no 64 bit version of the game so any statment about how bad 64bit SWTOR runs is incorrect to begin with..

[Stormnut]

We can scream how much the Hero engine sucks but it won't make Bioware fix anything while they are still in denial about how bad 64bit SWTOR runs for many people.

 

SWTOR is 32 bit not 64 bit.

[Phaedrynn]

LOL - Kid, its the engine, I have a 2700k @4.6 system with an XFX 7970 black edition. 16gb of corsair vengane memory, win7 64bit. When i go to illum (PVP area) id be lucky to get 20fps. Its the engine. Im not sure if you know about PCs, from your post, I doubt it, But a ATI 7970 and a 2700k should be able to eat up anything this game has to offer. Anyway....

 

Stop been a fanboy! this is a major problem.

 

What I would like you to do now is go to ilum, record your gameplay on fraps. Come back here and post the link to the video. Prove us all wrong !

 

Anyone who says its fine. record your gameplay and post back here.

 

If you are getting 20 FPS just *going* to Ilum, it IS your computer.

 

I have the same system (CPU/RAM/SSD), except I don't OC (it isn't needed with that system at all) and Im running a pair of GTX 560 Ti's. I get 50-60 FPS on Ilum.

 

First, I would suspect your OC isn't as stable as you think it is. Have you run Prime95 to ensure that OC is stable? OCing can actually degrade performance if you push too far.

 

Second, almost every single post I have seen claiming poor performance is using an ATi/AMD GPU. Most people running nVidia have few problems (though there are always exceptions).

Edited March 14, 2012 by Phaedrynn

[Baracca]

it's not 200 vs 200. It's more like 10 vs 10 in Ilum. It's not the graphics card or CPU or anything on my system. Proof? Yea. With graphics turned all the way down, I can tell when I'm going to get jumped by 10-20 people in Ilum (FROM BEHIND) just by the game slowing down to a slide show. So tell me, why does that happen? Oh, I see, my PC is rendering all those polygons that are not even on screen that must be it.

 

Also, find a 100 FPS area like a tiny corner in your ship and mash the "b" on your keyboard or the character screen for that matter. Enjoy the slide show.

 

EDIT: PS, if it's an AMD issue, that really no excuse.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Baracca

[Tenceriker]

Both my computers are 64 bit.. One is Windows 7 and the other is Vista.. No issues here.. There is no 64 bit version of the game so any statment about how bad 64bit SWTOR runs is incorrect to begin with..

 

Glad everything is running well for you but it isn't running well for many of us. Hence the thread.

[Goretzu]

Besides all the other issues like LFG, PVP, and content, I'm really disappointed in the performance.

 

12 gigs ram, SSD drive, and Radeon 7970 you can kill the framerate by the following:

 

going to Ilum

opening and closing your inventory

mounting and dismounting

 

Is there any hope for increased performance or is this engine THAT bad?

 

 

 

 

Ilum has seemingly been put on the back burner for now (maybe even the back of the cupboard), with 1.2.

 

No sure we'll be seeing much there any time soon.

[Jeskelech]

Every patch has been a perrformance patch to one degree or another..

 

As far as the engine goes?? Let's just say that I am quite certian that Bioware has more technical knowlege of the engine than any of us.. It is also much easier to blame one's performance issues on the game engine than their own computer.. Besides that it seems to make them feel informed and smart to complain about the game engine.. Instead of what the actual problem is..

 

I7-2600 Proc

GTX 560TI 1g Video card

16 gig Ram

 

No performance issues..

 

Quad core

GTX 260 725mb Video Card

8 gig ram

 

No performance issues..

 

One of the computers above is mine and the other belongs to my wife.. Both of us play this game and neither of us are having any kind of performance issues.. Both computers are running at max settings.. The lower computer has shadows turned down a little.. That is it.. We are both sitting on about 80 fps at all times.. That of course is just an average.. We of course have our dips in FPS depending on what we are doing and what is going on..

 

I am already noticing Bioware dumbing down the game to help people with low end computers.. many of the signs in Nar Shaddaa no longer move.. Blaster turrets that shoot into the air are no longer actually shooting blaster fire.. That is just what I have noticed..

 

There is nothing wrong with the engine.. People need to fix or upgrade their computers..

 

That last line is exactly what MicroSoft marketing wants you to believe, let's **** all over good development policies, which would be to make stuff that actually works, but instead let's just make this hack here and another one here, and not worry about the performance impact, people can just buy a new computer.

 

That said, the game is specced to be able to run on a wide range of computers, which is what an MMO needs to do to be able to be successful, so my take on this issue is quite simply.

 

Anyone who meets the minimum specs, is entitled to expect the game to run smoothly at max resolution (i.e. 1920 by 1080) and otherwise minimum graphical settings.

 

The notion that min specs still assume resolutions as low as 800 by 600 is stupid to be honest, don't think any of those monitors has been around for about 5 years, possibly even longer.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Jeskelech

[DigitalPrime]

I never said my FPS doesn't drop.. Please read my post..

 

Also, you only need 24 FPS for motion to look totally smooth.. That is the FPS of a movie.. Sure.. Our FPS drops in some areas and in some situations.. But never below about 35 to 40 fps.. Again all you need is 24 to be smooth as silk..

 

My only point was, there are other things people could be doing besides blaming the engine, which seems to be a main stay for any video game.. Even back in the days of the Quake engine.. People that couldn't run it said was the worst engine in history.. The Unreal engine got much of the same reviews from much of the same people.. As did the more recent Cry engine.. Seems that if your computer can't run it well due to lack of specs.. Blame the engine is the way to go.. Has been for years..

 

There is nothing wrong with the Hero engine.. No.. It is no perfect.. No engine is.. But it isn't the cause of all the FPS issues that people are having.. For that, people need to look no further then their own laptop or desktop computer.. I am sure that doing some upgrades or optimizations there will go a lot further in your gaming performance than it will to complain about the engine..

 

Ok, here goes for the hardware and upgrading.

 

Built my own rig after using a laptop

 

Rig -

 

Asrock Z68 Extreme4 gen 3 mobo

XFX ATI 7970 Black edition

3.5 2700k @4.6

16gb Corsair Vengramce ram 1600

 

HERE - http://youtu.be/F2BSMSc3Anc

 

This is what the system is build around, I have SSD drives, everything running smooth as a nut in everything Except ilum

 

Trust me, an upgrade is not needed. And to say ive been building PCs before most of you lot got to school Its not my system. Anyway, I understand engines need to to mature. But this "it must be your system" is crazy when the fact is, ilum is gimped. Everyone knows this.

Edited March 14, 2012 by DigitalPrime

[Rogoo]

It's your computer. here are my specs and i get 40-60 fps everywhere (excluding ilum) including ops fights

 

Could you please post a video of you in a warzone, with framerate counter on ?

[TimeWar]

LOL - Kid, its the engine, I have a 2700k @4.6 system with an XFX 7970 black edition. 16gb of corsair vengane memory, win7 64bit. When i go to illum (PVP area) id be lucky to get 20fps. Its the engine. Im not sure if you know about PCs, from your post, I doubt it, But a ATI 7970 and a 2700k should be able to eat up anything this game has to offer. Anyway....

 

Stop been a fanboy! this is a major problem.

 

What I would like you to do now is go to ilum, record your gameplay on fraps. Come back here and post the link to the video. Prove us all wrong !

 

Anyone who says its fine. record your gameplay and post back here.

 

Look into running the .exe in XP compatibility mode, it should help a lot based on your configuration. They didn't capitalize on Win7's memory management features. (Note: Not just the launcher, the swtor exe, although it should cascade if you set the launcher exe to Win XP 3 compatiblilty mode). Use your ATI performance center to monitor before/after load on the card, and task manager to monitor the cpu load before/after. It made a significant difference for me, enough to pass this along.

Edited March 14, 2012 by TimeWar

[monkgryphon]

Wow... lowest I've seen was in Ilum at around 35 FPS, which seemed fine for me. That was with full raid groups on both factions. Edited March 14, 2012 by monkgryphon

[Stormnut]

I have no issues 110 FPS almost everywhere (have not gone to illum so don't ask)

 

2500k (no overclock)

8 gigs of ddr3 1600

geforce 560 296 drivers

windows 7 64 bit

SATA 3 500 gig HD

 

Warzones are around 50 or 60 FPS

 

I have a tough time understanding that the game is at fault when I have no issues. If it was coding then would not everyone being having issues regardless of hardware.

 

Not denying people have FPS issues, but how is it that I can have great FPS but the person next to me with even better system specs has sub 30 FPS?

Edited March 14, 2012 by Stormnut

[xsmspiffs]

it's not 200 vs 200. It's more like 10 vs 10 in Ilum. It's not the graphics card or CPU or anything on my system. Proof? Yea. With graphics turned all the way down, I can tell when I'm going to get jumped by 10-20 people in Ilum (FROM BEHIND) just by the game slowing down to a slide show. So tell me, why does that happen? Oh, I see, my PC is rendering all those polygons that are not even on screen that must be it.

 

Also, find a 100 FPS area like a tiny corner in your ship and mash the "b" on your keyboard or the character screen for that matter. Enjoy the slide show.

 

EDIT: PS, if it's an AMD issue, that really no excuse.

 

1) the b key (opening inventory) probably has to hit the server to get the items that are in your inventory, so, depending on how it is written there will be a slowdown while it does the request/reply from the server.

 

2) the people behind you doesn't mean that the network isn't getting data even if the polygons that will not be displayed are not rendering. You assume that it has to do with the graphics, it could just as easily be the networking code.

 

3) if it is a bug in the AMD driver then it is not the fault of BioWare or the Hero engine, it is the fault of AMD. Go look at AMD (and nVidea) and look at their driver histories and see how many bugs they have fixed/performance fixes for specific games they have added. If a driver is poorly implemented it is hardly the fault of the code that relies on the driver being correct.

 

TL;DR - you are assuming it is the graphics engine, it could be the network code on the client, or the server, or your network connection (to some extent). It could also be the graphics engine. It could also be a driver issue that the GPU vendor has to fix. However none of what you have provided can say what it is one way or another.

[MajikMyst]

That last line is exactly what MicroSoft marketing wants you to believe, let's **** all over good development policies, and make stuff that actually works, instead let's just make this hack here and another one here, and not worry about the performance impact, people can just buy a new computer.

 

Well.. I upgraded both my computers and I am not having any issues.. What does that tell you??

 

It is always wise to make sure the issue you are having is not on your end first.. No software company is ever obligated to make something run or perform well on a computer that the user refuses the upgrade or properly maintain..

 

I haven't bought a new computer in about 6 years or more.. I do upgrade them every year though.. This year I spent about $600 dollars and upgraded both computers.. They are both above system requirements for the game and the game is running great.. No issues..

 

Part of owning a computer is staying current with technology.. Technology doesn't stop because you bought a computer.. At some point, technology will have moved on and your computer will start to struggle.. Eventually, it won't even be able to run the current software.. It isn't the software companies fault that people just don't keep their computers up to par with todays technology..

 

Sometimes buying a new computer is the answer.. I also think you are confusing Apples markating with Microsoft.. Apple is the one that you always had to buy a new computer for the latest software for.. Not Microsoft.. I am running Windows 7.. The third version of Windows on this computer.. Which is also now ready for Windows 8.. Which will be the 4th version.. Same computer, just upgraded..

[RelentlessWiz]

Besides all the other issues like LFG, PVP, and content, I'm really disappointed in the performance.

 

12 gigs ram, SSD drive, and Radeon 7970 you can kill the framerate by the following:

 

going to Ilum

opening and closing your inventory

mounting and dismounting

 

Is there any hope for increased performance or is this engine THAT bad?

 

 

Most of Ilum performance is going to be directly influenced by how fast your internet is... 12 GIGs.. don't really need that much memory... SSD...Not a big deal in this game. Radeon 7970... This game isn't Crysis.

[MajikMyst]

Glad everything is running well for you but it isn't running well for many of us. Hence the thread.

 

Like I said.. Take a hard look at your computer, your graphics card, CPU, and what software you have running in the background.. Also check your drivers..

 

The simple thing is to make sure you have done all you can on your end to give yourself the best performance.. Check out some upgrades.. Maybe a little more ram.. Maybe you are just at the point where you need to start looking for a new machine.. They are pretty cheap you know.. But complaining on the forum isn't going to fix anyone's issue.. Guaranteed..

[Loxion]

So very true, people believe a computer is only the GPU, CPU and Ram, but they always forget to list what

 

1. Make

2. Model

3. Wattage

4. 12v Rail amps + how many there are

 

their PSU is/has...

 

Even having something causing other power issue else where in the machine can cause other issue. USB peripheral not being recognized or even a defective device can draw a lot of power from your machine.

 

Have to agree, the single most overlooked component in most PCs is the PSU, when in reality it is actually one of the most important to get right.

[MajikMyst]

This is what the system is build around, I have SSD drives, everything running smooth as a nut in everything Except ilum.

 

Then there is your answer.. Fix the one thing you haven't mentioned.. Your net access..

 

If the game is performing well everywhere else except Ilum.. Then the game is not the issue..

 

That doesn't mean there isn't some network optimizations they can do to help with the issue.. But my guess is your own connection is probably the issue.. It usually is when it comes to loss of FPS and PVP, or any activity when a lot of people are close by..

 

Again.. Not the engine..

Edited March 14, 2012 by MajikMyst

[Goretzu]

Well.. I upgraded both my computers and I am not having any issues.. What does that tell you??

 

It is always wise to make sure the issue you are having is not on your end first.. No software company is ever obligated to make something run or perform well on a computer that the user refuses the upgrade or properly maintain..

 

I haven't bought a new computer in about 6 years or more.. I do upgrade them every year though.. This year I spent about $600 dollars and upgraded both computers.. They are both above system requirements for the game and the game is running great.. No issues..

 

Part of owning a computer is staying current with technology.. Technology doesn't stop because you bought a computer.. At some point, technology will have moved on and your computer will start to struggle.. Eventually, it won't even be able to run the current software.. It isn't the software companies fault that people just don't keep their computers up to par with todays technology..

 

Sometimes buying a new computer is the answer.. I also think you are confusing Apples markating with Microsoft.. Apple is the one that you always had to buy a new computer for the latest software for.. Not Microsoft.. I am running Windows 7.. The third version of Windows on this computer.. Which is also now ready for Windows 8.. Which will be the 4th version.. Same computer, just upgraded..

 

 

 

According to MS, if you change the motherboard it's a new PC..... and they aren't really wrong, depending on the point of view.

[Yomitako]

There's always going to be bantering on what is causing which problem, but for the most part, especially when it comes to ops groups on Ilum, one of the key bottlenecks is going to be your network connection. As most gamers should already know, you will always get better bandwidth and performance on a wired connection, vs a wireless connection. Also, server population can directly affect how things run as well (although lately, a non-issue).

 

But one of things I found that helped me squeeze out an extra 5FPS, was using a tool called the Leatrix Latency Fix

 

What it really boils down to is trying to figure out where the bottleneck is. With some people having the problem and some people not having it, There's only so much to blame. Probably not your computer directly, hardware-wise (But still never a bad idea to make sure all of your Windows and video driver files are up to date). Most of the bottlenecking is going to occur somewhere within the network.

[WildbloodX]

Besides all the other issues like LFG, PVP, and content, I'm really disappointed in the performance.

 

12 gigs ram, SSD drive, and Radeon 7970 you can kill the framerate by the following:

 

going to Ilum

opening and closing your inventory

mounting and dismounting

 

Is there any hope for increased performance or is this engine THAT bad?

 

 

Hear the performance issue a lot, but I am using i7 16 gig ram 2tb drives in raid 0 config, and 560ti cards in SLI mode with no issues besides the occasional rare crash. I am using win xp 32 bit so technically I am only using 4 gig of ram with good frame rate even in Ilum. Baracca you might want to check other issues with your system, errors in reg. and disk fragmentation. Also can try and set your virtual memory to use max in minimal. You might want to try the repair tool in the launcher as well.

 

My issue is with the bug fixes in the patch notes. I wonder if they are listing all the actual fixes. I remember huge lists of bug fixes “in that other MMO”, but last weak only had two fixes listed!? Not sure what is going on, but two fixes in a weak time would make me think BW only has 1 engineer working on the game.

[Proksham]

I find their lack of acknowledging performance issues could be related to their client disturbing.

[DrakusMa]

I gave up home long time ago. I am not waiting for the FPS fix any more, just for my sub to run out (40 more days). I honestly can't play a game that doesn't even run properly on my machine. I can't stand 10 FPS Ops fights.

 

And before some idiot tells me its my computer - it's not. And I mean when I say it - It's not. I hope I don't have to repeat myself.

 

It's your system bro.

 

I have recently upgraded my Mobo and CPU, run a sub par graphics card, and run everything on max. And I mean Max. I hope I don't have to repeat myself.

[DigitalPrime]

I have no issues 110 FPS almost everywhere (have not gone to illum so don't ask)

 

2500k (no overclock)

8 gigs of ddr3 1600

geforce 560 296 drivers

windows 7 64 bit

SATA 3 500 gig HD

 

Warzones are around 50 or 60 FPS

 

I have a tough time understanding that the game is at fault when I have no issues. If it was coding then would not everyone being having issues regardless of hardware.

 

Not denying people have FPS issues, but how is it that I can have great FPS but the person next to me with even better system specs has sub 30 FPS?

 

Go to ilum PVP area primetime!