Pyro Powertech and Merc Healer sleeper OP?

[jitsuo]

Problem is that good Merc healers can survive while multiple people were beating on them. Double Mara/PT seems like a good combo but, while the damage is high, they would need to outlast the double Vanguard/Commando healer. Vanguard DPS is super bursty while Anni Marauders have high sustain.

 

Mara's should be able to tear through PT's on their own so I would guess Double Mara+Commando healer would be able to tear through them.

 

If I had to guess the best combos, I would think that double Operative+Tankasin or double Tankasin+Commando healer would be tops. The first one would have stealth, a LOT of burst, and great survivability and utility from the Sin. 2nd one would just be an absolute ***** to kill due to all of their insane survivability.

[Rotm]

I wouldn't go double pure dps + commando better to have a tank hybrid for guard/taunt where you don't need the mara/sent survival cheese. Otherwise your healer is turned into a 12 second reactive shield damage soak. Hybrid Van vs Sin is very debateable.

[jitsuo]

I wouldn't go double pure dps + commando better to have a tank hybrid for guard/taunt where you don't need the mara/sent survival cheese. Otherwise your healer is turned into a 12 second reactive shield damage soak. Hybrid Van vs Sin is very debateable.

 

I would guess Sin because of the high DPS+self healing that Sin has. Plus, Sin brings stealth to the table.

[Scoobings]

On a side note, I don't think Merc could be considered sleeper OP. It's been my experience that a lot of people think merc healers are pretty OP

[Baconmonster]

Problem is that good Merc healers can survive while multiple people were beating on them. Double Mara/PT seems like a good combo but, while the damage is high, they would need to outlast the double Vanguard/Commando healer. Vanguard DPS is super bursty while Anni Marauders have high sustain.

 

Mara's should be able to tear through PT's on their own so I would guess Double Mara+Commando healer would be able to tear through them.

 

If I had to guess the best combos, I would think that double Operative+Tankasin or double Tankasin+Commando healer would be tops. The first one would have stealth, a LOT of burst, and great survivability and utility from the Sin. 2nd one would just be an absolute ***** to kill due to all of their insane survivability.

 

This. Mostly the Marauder and Commando 3v3. I play a pyrotech, I know the burst capable of our spec, however, Marauder/Marauder/Merc (or pub equivalent) would wipe the floor with VG/VG/Commando. In small settings especially with a healer, Marauders and Tanksins are king, High burst, high sustain, high survivablity. Honestly, give the VG group another type of healer, smuggler or sorc and watch how fast that group drops compared to Commando heals. Don't get me wrong, PTs and VGs are very good, we're very strong but we drop like a sack of rocks compared to Marauders and Tanksins. Hence why I get the feeling the commando had more to do with the win than the VGs did.

 

Honestly, I'd have to go with TankSin/TankSin/Merc(Shad/Shad/Com) then Mara/Mara/Merc(Sent/Sent/Com) then PT/PT/Merc(VG/VG/Com) I'd put them even with Ops/Ops/Merc(Scoundrel/Scoundrel/Com).

[xChroniCx]

Yes! balance pvp off my tournaments!!! We're doing 4v4 this weekend if another 100 cheerleaders would like to come watch. Would be nice if we had more than 6 teams participate in the actual fighting this time...

 

Having played WoW arenas to gladiator ratings every season I played, I know there are more viable comps out there. I kinda want to try sorc healer merc healer marauder, don't see how we'd lose to anything but another 2x healer team. But as we all know some classes are a little better than others atm, so the next tournament limits teams to 1 AC per team.

[Obie_Wan]

This. Mostly the Marauder and Commando 3v3. I play a pyrotech, I know the burst capable of our spec, however, Marauder/Marauder/Merc (or pub equivalent) would wipe the floor with VG/VG/Commando. In small settings especially with a healer, Marauders and Tanksins are king, High burst, high sustain, high survivablity. Honestly, give the VG group another type of healer, smuggler or sorc and watch how fast that group drops compared to Commando heals. Don't get me wrong, PTs and VGs are very good, we're very strong but we drop like a sack of rocks compared to Marauders and Tanksins. Hence why I get the feeling the commando had more to do with the win than the VGs did.

 

Honestly, I'd have to go with TankSin/TankSin/Merc(Shad/Shad/Com) then Mara/Mara/Merc(Sent/Sent/Com) then PT/PT/Merc(VG/VG/Com) I'd put them even with Ops/Ops/Merc(Scoundrel/Scoundrel/Com).

 

 

Marauders and Tank Assassins are in a league of their own, in a broken over-the-top way. Trying to use them as comparison is kind of like shooting yourself in the feet with a shotgun. Snipers and Operatives drops like a sack of rocks. Juggernauts and Powertechs has decent survivability for the role that they do. This is being generous, especially considering Powertech has a lower survivability cooldown and talents that can consistently lower the CD further.

 

And yeah, I had never thought of Merc healers as sleeper OPs either. I'd figure tales of Microwave would've resounded throughout the community by now. Good player with a class that has the skill sets to do amazing things, very nice things happens.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Obie_Wan

[Varicite]

This. Mostly the Marauder and Commando 3v3. I play a pyrotech, I know the burst capable of our spec, however, Marauder/Marauder/Merc (or pub equivalent) would wipe the floor with VG/VG/Commando. In small settings especially with a healer, Marauders and Tanksins are king, High burst, high sustain, high survivablity. Honestly, give the VG group another type of healer, smuggler or sorc and watch how fast that group drops compared to Commando heals. Don't get me wrong, PTs and VGs are very good, we're very strong but we drop like a sack of rocks compared to Marauders and Tanksins. Hence why I get the feeling the commando had more to do with the win than the VGs did.

 

Honestly, I'd have to go with TankSin/TankSin/Merc(Shad/Shad/Com) then Mara/Mara/Merc(Sent/Sent/Com) then PT/PT/Merc(VG/VG/Com) I'd put them even with Ops/Ops/Merc(Scoundrel/Scoundrel/Com).

 

What I noted when I watched this yesterday was that the Commando healer is also the only healer able to go for extended periods of time w/out Guard up and still survive.

 

Most of the matches, one of the VGs would switch Guard over to the healer only after they had killed one of the other team's members. The Commando would pretty much just heal/kite 2 people during the initial kill time.

 

Commando healer was definitely MVP for the team. I agree that 2x Sent + Commando heals would have performed equally well, if not better. Or even BETTER yet, Sent/VG/Commando healer for taunts/optional guard to make pretty much anyone cry.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Varicite

[da_krall]

That's because good Sorc/Sages don't try to DPS so much as they CC. They have very strong controlling elements, but most players want to get Healing records or Damage records. The strength of the Sorc/Sage lies in their CC and root ability.

 

Really?? even if a sorc all their CC in one burst that would take only 5 seconds and still leave them 7 seconds to wait for the quickest to come off CD (slow) 15 seconds (KB) 40 seconds (talented stun) 40 seconds (talented whirlwind)....seems like that leaves a 'good' sorc more than enough time to kick out their substandard DPS.

[Derian]

Really?? even if a sorc all their CC in one burst that would take only 5 seconds and still leave them 7 seconds to wait for the quickest to come off CD (slow) 15 seconds (KB) 40 seconds (talented stun) 40 seconds (talented whirlwind)....seems like that leaves a 'good' sorc more than enough time to kick out their substandard DPS.

 

Don't get offended brah. Just saying a lot of Sorc/Sages ignore the fact their biggest asset is their CC.

[Obie_Wan]

Or even BETTER yet, Sent/VG/Commando healer for taunts/optional guard to make pretty much anyone cry.

 

Someone really ought to give this combo a shot in the next event. Kudos to the HoG people for taking the initiative for their community in doing something fun like this.

[Varicite]

Someone really ought to give this combo a shot in the next event. Kudos to the HoG people for taking the initiative for their community in doing something fun like this.

 

I would love to try this combo, personally. Sent buffs + heal debuff + damage/survival w/ VG burst/taunts/guard/pull and merc heals seems easily OP.

 

That event also looked like a ton of fun.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Varicite

[ShadowOfVey]

I wouldn't say Sorcs are bad or not worth playing against good players.

 

They increase in viability the more people that are out on the field. I wouldn't want to use one in 3 v 3 combat (and wouldn't even if there was no post here telling me they performed poorly) but in an 8 v 8? I'd want at least one. They still have great CC options that might not stand up well against one person determined to kill them when they don't have help, but are excellent as support in large battles.

 

More targets mean more opportunity to find people that are in a bad position to attempt to LoS. Also more allies means more peels. In huttball the value of friendly pulls can't be denied, even against good players.

 

In short they have too many tools for you to decline having one around, even it it means a little help from teammates to make it work. The class itself performs well in 8 v 8 warzones.

[Iite]

You weren't talking to me, but your false bravado comes off as insecurity.

 

Is your sorc even level 50? Your sig says your valor is pretty low.

 

You really think i would form an opinion of sorcs in pvp if i hadn't leveled one to 50 at least ?

 

Gimmie a little credit lol.

 

Especially in response to retarded blanket statements like "sorcs aren't pvp viable, and if you think so your a newb"

Edited March 14, 2012 by Iite

[Karandor]

Honestly against the double VG+commando healer the best group would be 3 snipers.

 

 

Whichever sniper gets the incendiary round on him blows his 100% defense CD to make the first 2 HIB miss while they just destroy 1 PT because he has no real good defense against snipers. Between all the snipers roots, KBs, blind grenades and melee stuns the VGs won't be able to get into that 10m range to proc the HiB refreshes. 3 snipers can easily kill an assault VG through a merc healer.

 

 

 

 

3 snipers/gunslingers would actually be interesting to see in a competition like that as they can insta-gib just about anything and have enough CC (and CC immunity) to give melee teams huge problems.

[ShadowOfVey]

Honestly against the double VG+commando healer the best group would be 3 snipers.

 

 

Whichever sniper gets the incendiary round on him blows his 100% defense CD to make the first 2 HIB miss while they just destroy 1 PT because he has no real good defense against snipers. Between all the snipers roots, KBs, blind grenades and melee stuns the VGs won't be able to get into that 10m range to proc the HiB refreshes. 3 snipers can easily kill an assault VG through a merc healer.

 

 

 

 

3 snipers/gunslingers would actually be interesting to see in a competition like that as they can insta-gib just about anything and have enough CC (and CC immunity) to give melee teams huge problems.

 

How would people handle it if a group of snipers were beating everyone though? There'd be a lot of confusion.

 

 

"Snipers won? Wait, but that means...sniper? OP? Too good? I don't understand..."

[Varicite]

How would people handle it if a group of snipers were beating everyone though? There'd be a lot of confusion.

 

 

"Snipers won? Wait, but that means...sniper? OP? Too good? I don't understand..."

 

I would quit the game.

 

Seriously though, Snipers are pretty insane when stacked. I honestly think these guys are the best class to stack besides healers. Back them w/ just 1 healer and watch people die.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Varicite

[CrunkShizzle]

The Pyro build does way more damage and I'm pretty sure that class is getting "fixed" in 1.2, any tournaments after that should hopefully be more realistic.

 

what exactly do you mean by getting "fixed"

 

i was kinda thinkin about makin a powertech

[Howbadisbad]

I would quit the game.

 

Seriously though, Snipers are pretty insane when stacked. I honestly think these guys are the best class to stack besides healers. Back them w/ just 1 healer and watch people die.

 

 

In all honesty, I can see them performing around the same level as DPS Mercs. They will be doing good damage when they hit, but LOS will hard counter their damage.

[Jinnz]

Yes! balance pvp off my tournaments!!! We're doing 4v4 this weekend if another 100 cheerleaders would like to come watch. Would be nice if we had more than 6 teams participate in the actual fighting this time...

 

Having played WoW arenas to gladiator ratings every season I played, I know there are more viable comps out there. I kinda want to try sorc healer merc healer marauder, don't see how we'd lose to anything but another 2x healer team. But as we all know some classes are a little better than others atm, so the next tournament limits teams to 1 AC per team.

 

Glad youve seen sense and are AT LEAST making this 'tournament (lol) 4v4.

 

Next you need to get your 6 groups you speak of and roam a la DAOC style. If a group encoutner another group then no1 is to interfere, but other fights can break out.

 

wow ARENAS have ruined an entire generation of mmo pvp. In just the same way cod has done to online fps games (every game with spring? every game with ads?)

 

We are indeed in the noobs generation of player vs player games. I miss the old days when pve and pvp were mixed, and when you had to aim and control bullet recoil than jus ads spray and kill everyone.

 

/rant... for now.

[Varicite]

In all honesty, I can see them performing around the same level as DPS Mercs. They will be doing good damage when they hit, but LOS will hard counter their damage.

 

I agree that LOS definitely counters them hard, but I was thinking more along the lines of defense points like Alderaan nodes or VS doors, MAYBE the center bridges in Huttball.

 

They bring a lot more defense and utility than a dps merc, as well as being uninterruptable/CC'able for a time.

[Zunayson]

Snipers are beast at controlling the middle in Huttball, and are great defenders. I was Eng (Next to someone who was Lethality, so both of us were dot-based, I was energy he was internal), we could seriously burst down any single opponent in about 3 seconds.

[SYNAGORE]

In 3v3 Arena, i could see tank-shadow X 2 (or even 2 dps shadows in tanking stance) and a scoundrel just wrecking up the place. They can all stealth and they all have high burst. It will prob be a solo healer in most 3v3's and the healer will die before he knew what hit him. The poor SOB guarding the healer will drop next tbh. A hard counter would be a 2 merc/comm teams and that will prob be pretty rare.

 

However, I dont see this team being as viable in a 4v4; when most teams will have a 2nd healer. Cross healing will kill the burst.

[Howbadisbad]

In 3v3 Arena, i could see tank-shadow X 2 (or even 2 dps shadows in tanking stance) and a scoundrel just wrecking up the place. They can all stealth and they all have high burst. It will prob be a solo healer in most 3v3's and the healer will die before he knew what hit him. The poor SOB guarding the healer will drop next tbh. A hard counter would be a 2 merc/comm teams and that will prob be pretty rare.

 

However, I dont see this team being as viable in a 4v4; when most teams will have a 2nd healer. Cross healing will kill the burst.

 

Getting knocked from stealth would instantly counter that. One trick pony teams are not viable for arena.

[Manigma]

In all honesty, I can see them performing around the same level as DPS Mercs. They will be doing good damage when they hit, but LOS will hard counter their damage.

Have fun trying to constantly LOS 3 snipers from different angles.