Mongrul Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 ok i have just listened to the darth plagueis audio book and this explains a lot for me. apparantly this plagueis was very wise and had huge plans that he basically gave to palpatine. and i understand now how palp cloaked himself for years. i highly recommend this book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomberlegend Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Yoda cannot even be considered for the worst Jedi ever he is arguably the most powerful force wielder in the known galaxy. Count dooku was a wimp compaired to Yoda as seen in episode 2 and even Darth Sidious was fairly evenly matched but in the end if Yoda didn't make his lightening explode in his face and send both of them flying then he would have won that fight. Yoda is the best and I wouldn't put anyone abouve him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Yoda cannot even be considered for the worst Jedi ever he is arguably the most powerful force wielder in the known galaxy. Count dooku was a wimp compaired to Yoda as seen in episode 2 and even Darth Sidious was fairly evenly matched but in the end if Yoda didn't make his lightening explode in his face and send both of them flying then he would have won that fight. Yoda is the best and I wouldn't put anyone abouve him Except GM Luke Skywalker who is leagues better than Yoda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trixdope Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Except GM Luke Skywalker who is leagues better than Yoda. Oh I can't wait till all that post Rotj dragon ball z **** gets retconned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaulderBenson Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) No, Yoda was one of the most accomplished, powerful, wise, and knowledgeable Jedi who ever lived; hardly one of the worst jedi. However, he was a very terrible and incompetent Grand Master in my opinion.Yoda was presided over the twilight of the jedi. Both he and Mace Windu mismanaged the Clone Wars very badly, played right into Darth Sidous' hands, and very nearly allowed the Jedi to go completely extinct. Let's see...under Yoda's watch: 1. The Jedi order stagnates under Yoda's stewardship, while the Sith evolve and grow stronger. 2. The Clone Wars begins, ending roughly a 1000 years of peace. 3. The Jedi fight and lose the Clone Wars. 4 The Sith (all two of them) nearly wipe out the entire Jedi Order. 5. The Republic is turned into a Galactic Empire 6. The Sith reign unchallenged for two decades committing genocide, enslaving species, and destroying entire planets. The final kicker, is that in the end, Luke defeats the Emperor and Vader by ignoring Yoda and Obi Wan's advice to kill the Sith, he appeals to Vader's emotions and touches what's left of his soul. Ultimately Luke defeats them because of his love and faith in the man his father was; not because of the Jedi dogma Yoda preached during his time as Grand Master of the Jedi order. Yoda was essentially too old and set in his ways, and had been in charge of the Jedi for far too long. Great jedi, terrible leader. Yoda is an interesting character. His youth could be fun to explore in a feature length movie or cartoon. My two cents anyway. Edited March 4, 2014 by CaulderBenson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 No, Yoda was one of the most accomplished, powerful, wise, and knowledgeable Jedi who ever lived. Hardly the worst in my opinion. However, he was a very terrible and incompetent Grand Master in my opinion.Yoda was presided over the twilight of the jedi. Both he and Mace Windu mismanaged the Clone Wars very badly, played right into Darth Sidous' hands, and very nearly allowed the Jedi to go completely extinct. Let's see...under Yoda's watch: 1. The Jedi order stagnates under Yoda's stewardship, while the Sith evolve and grow stronger. 2. The Clone Wars begins, ending roughly a 1000 years of peace. 3. The Jedi fight and lose the Clone Wars. 4 The Sith (all two of them) nearly wipe out the entire Jedi Order. 5. The Republic is turned into a Galactic Empire 6. The Sith reign unchallenged for two decades committing genocide, enslaving species, and destroying entire planets. The final kicker, is that in the end, Luke defeats the Emperor and Vader by ignoring Yoda and Obi Wan's advice to kill the Sith, he appeals to Vader's emotions and touches what's left of his soul. Ultimately Luke defeats them because of his love and faith in the man his father was; not because of the Jedi dogma Yoda preached during his time as Grand Master of the Jedi order. Yoda was essentially too old and set in his ways, and had been in charge of the Jedi for far too long. Great jedi, terrible leader. Yoda is an interesting character. His youth could be fun to explore in a feature length movie or cartoon. My two cents anyway. Check your facts. None of that is Yoda's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaulderBenson Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Check your facts. None of that is Yoda's fault. Buck stops at the guy in charge. It wasn't President Hoover's fault the stock market crashed eight months after he took office, but he had to shoulder the blame. People can decide for themselves. None of that may have been Yoda's "fault" but all that happened on his watch and he failed to stop a lot of it. There were reasons for that beyond just predetermined fate. You have to remember, the Jedi did lose the Clone Wars. There was a reason for that. Their outlook, tactics, and strategy was flawed. They way they practiced their belief in how they should be serving the Force and conducting Jedi business ultimately failed. This was one of the things explored by George Lucas and Dave Filoni over the course of the Clone Wars tv series.They flat out stated the Jedi lost the Clone Wars for reasons not to do solely with tactics, but also to do with how they fought the war as Jedi. This was explored constantly in the Clone Wars novels and the Dark Horse comics. Maybe you should check those out? They offer some interesting perspectives and ideas. The Jedi Order - under Yoda - could not stop the Sith, lost both the Clone Wars and their way as Jedi. Yoda was not the best Grand Master. You can hold a different opinion if you want, but it will be just that - your opinion. Edited March 4, 2014 by CaulderBenson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 This was explored constantly in the Clone Wars novels and the Dark Horse comics. Maybe you should check those out? They offer some interesting perspectives and ideas. Maybe you should do that. I've read pretty much everything Clone Wars. You seem to be forgetting some very crucial facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaulderBenson Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Maybe you should do that. I've read pretty much everything Clone Wars. You seem to be forgetting some very crucial facts. Nah. I've read it all, and more than you in general I'd wager since you didn't recognize the Darth Vader quote from Splinter of the Mind's Eye in that thread the other day if I recall correctly. Shocking since it's the first EU novel ever written. And I'm done with this thread. I'm not interested in responding to you anymore, particularly when it's one of the underlying plot points of the Clone Wars based on interviews with Filoni and George Lucas, and it's inherent in the work itself. Like I said, your opinion is your opinion, same as mine is mine. Edited March 4, 2014 by CaulderBenson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 And I'm done with this thread. I'm not interested in responding to you anymore Good thing, too, because I wasn't interested in responding to you either. But go ahead and continue to think you're right. Doesn't matter to me. And about that quote. Did you ever think that I may have forgotten it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakensang Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Poor Yoda. We definitely don't see him at his best. He seems essentially retired by the time we meet him, more monk less warrior. He spends a lot of scenes spouting profoundly unuseful fortune-cookie wisdom, but when he's right about something--don't train Anakin, he's too old--he gets ignored. . Of course, if people insist on training Anakain one could have resolved some of his issues quiete handily by springing his mom from watto (If the order doesn't have funds, one could have called in a marker from the queen of Naboo, who could probably buy a slave with the catering budget for the next two days) and actually adressing his romance-jedi-problems ( which everyone knew about ) instead of playing the enigmatic frog when asked. But I guess if 800 years old you are, common sense boring becomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) An overlooked part of the Prequels is that Lucas illustrated just how arrogant and out of touch the Order became - they were founded to be the guardians of peace and justice of the galaxy, but when it came time to actually deliver peace and justice, they instead turned to their order's dogma and practices and insisted people just be more like them. Sidious got the drop on the jedi because he used their own arrogance against them and played to their prejudices. Even the masters were infected with this pompousness - look how in EP II Mace rejects Padme's assertion that Dooku was behind the assassination attempt on her life - total arrogance, just because he used to be a jedi. It was the arrogance of the jedi order that led to their downfall. Had they still upheld peace and Justice, they would have bailed out Ani's mom, even "just in case", instead of essentially telling the young man to "get over it because that's our awesome jedi way" Edited March 4, 2014 by ZionHalcyon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuraJurai Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) If the Jedi stopped following their code they would not be Jedi anymore they have always put them self on a higher moral standard then the rest of the galaxy it is a path not everyone one can walk once you start breaking the code you start down the path of the Darkside as is evident in so many eu stories yes the code did prevent them from doing certain things in the clone wars but another certain Jedi fought without any regard for the code or moral judgement and let look what happen to him .. oh ye he became Darth Revan his decision to defy the council ultimately lead to his downfall and the death of pretty much all the Jedi that followed him and a good chunk of the republic forces as well his victory may have saved the republic for a time but it greatly wounded the Jedi order in the process Sidious was no less arrogant then the Jedi so over confident and glee was he in telling Luke "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design. Your friends, up there on the sanctuary moon, are walking into a trap, as is your Rebel fleet. It was *I* who allowed the Alliance to know the location of the shield generator. It is quite safe from your pitiful little band. An entire legion of my best troops awaits them. Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive. " one has to wonder if Sidious foresaw his own demise without going into the eu or if his arrogance got the better of him or maybe sidious just was not aware that his stormtroopers was quite ineffective Edited March 4, 2014 by AuraJurai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakensang Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 ...... but another certain Jedi fought without any regard for the code or moral judgement and let look what happen to him .. oh ye he became Darth Revan his decision to defy the council ultimately lead to his downfall and the death of pretty much all the Jedi that followed him and a good chunk of the republic forces as well his victory may have saved the republic for a time but it greatly wounded the Jedi order in the process And I thought he ran afoul of some mind bender on Korriban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel_Guy Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 him or maybe sidious just was not aware that his stormtroopers was quite ineffective But that's what was annoying... He played the game right just as he always had... He may have been arrogant, but he didn't lose because of it ... He lost... Because ewoks> stormtroopers aparently -.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) But that's what was annoying... He played the game right just as he always had... He may have been arrogant, but he didn't lose because of it ... He lost... Because ewoks> stormtroopers aparently -.- Barring in mind that it's not just Ewoks > Stormtroopers was the reason they lost. There were several other big factors that played a bigger part. Edited March 7, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Grand Master Satele Shan battled the whole sith empire i guess thousands of sith warriors in armor with sith fleets attacking frequently.she manages to fight them all off. Grand Master Luke Skywalker manages to fight off the whole yuuzhan vong invasion. probably millions of enemies. Grand Master Yoda has 2 sith enemies. no armor, no battlecruisers to fight. the whole republic and jedi order come crumbling down on his watch. yes the sith traded in their armor for cloth cloaks and went from a political angle instead of brute force. but still its only 2 and one of them is right under your friggin nose. i cant comprehend it. the dark side clouds the vision. blah blah blah it appears any force user can detect another force user unless the one hiding force cloaks himself? can he manage a force cloak 24 hours a day for years? You are awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 During the Great Galactic War era, the First Son was sitting on the Jedi Council, yet Yoda gets bashed for not seeing the Chancellor for what he was? Seems legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niklarus Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Sidious was no less arrogant then the Jedi so over confident and glee was he in telling Luke "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design. Your friends, up there on the sanctuary moon, are walking into a trap, as is your Rebel fleet. It was *I* who allowed the Alliance to know the location of the shield generator. It is quite safe from your pitiful little band. An entire legion of my best troops awaits them. Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive. " one has to wonder if Sidious foresaw his own demise without going into the eu or if his arrogance got the better of him or maybe sidious just was not aware that his stormtroopers was quite ineffective It's my opinion that at this point, Sidious pretty much abandoned all sense of subtlety and cunning and was openly mocking Murphy's Law, daring it to act against him. Murphy, True God of the Multiverse that he is, glanced down upon dear old Palpy, said "Really, dude? Really?" and proceeded to utterly eff up every single one of Palpy's plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 It's my opinion that at this point, Sidious pretty much abandoned all sense of subtlety and cunning and was openly mocking Murphy's Law, daring it to act against him. Murphy, True God of the Multiverse that he is, glanced down upon dear old Palpy, said "Really, dude? Really?" and proceeded to utterly eff up every single one of Palpy's plans.Murphy, AKA the Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Basically its what I have said before, and what Yoda has said. "always in motion is the future" A force user no matter how powerful or how skilled in Foresight can only see the paths they perceive as a possibility. Palps could have never suspected Vader would turn to light or that a bunch of helpless small teddy bears would pose any kind of a threat, and because his mind could not perceive these things as even a remote possibility he was blind to that particular future. He was quite literally blinded by Arrogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrnfkbsdgfbdsgb Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Yoda? The worst? Absolutely not. The worst is Coleman Trebor who died by getting SHOT IN THE FACE, and he saw Jango too. How this guy was let on to the Jedi Council.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Yoda? The worst? Absolutely not. The worst is Coleman Trebor who died by getting SHOT IN THE FACE, and he saw Jango too. How this guy was let on to the Jedi Council.. Because he was a pretty good negotiator, they put him on that Council because he had a large number of contacts, he was able to deal with several species, he averted several disputs throughout the galaxy without bloodshed and was pretty much the spokesbeing for the Jedi Order and was well respected. Not every Jedi is a battle warrior and to be fair he was able to deflect a couple of shots from Jango. He just wasn't good enough to survive. Edited March 27, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Lets face it guys the worst jedi ever is going to be one of the members of the Jedi Council who decided to ignore the Mandalorian Wars and "meditate" instead. I nominate the Vrook, the head honcho, or their resident zealot Atris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Yoda is the worst jedi ever, in the context of doing so very little for the amount power he had. The things he was most well known for were training Luke, retarded way of speaking and being small and green. Edited March 27, 2014 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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