PLEASE VOTE: Give Us Real Combat Logs

[Seregul]

They already told you in what format. Do you really need more proof. Let's revist they said "Parse" which is a known program to parse damage in game and write everything that happens into a NotePad.

 

How can you miss this obvious remark. How about the remark about going offline and using the program. He said in the interview, it takes a bit more work to be exuseive. Or how about he realized the pro's and con's and understood their are some who don't want our privacy invaded.

 

That's why it said, it's like a meeting in middle. People that hing on combat log's like life support will get them. Now to actually READ the data. No suggestion of recount or anything like that. And he used word Parse. Safe to say this will be an offline software.

 

It may add 30 plus minutes after each boss fight to figure out how to beat him 11 second's faster but I suppose it's worth it to the "Super Elite" or "Super Snowflaked" those for damage meter's will calmy say we gotten the message wrong or their poll is flawed, don't be fooled.

 

Takes maybe 30 seconds to load a parse into a third party client and get a report back. Also, combat logs are not the same thing as in-game meters. This has been stated several times in these threads.

[Drewser]

They already told you in what format. Do you really need more proof. Let's revist they said "Parse" which is a known program to parse damage in game and write everything that happens into a NotePad.

 

 

I stopped there since 'parse" is not a program.

[Atharyia]

 

It may add 30 plus minutes after each boss fight to figure out how to beat him 11 second's faster but I suppose it's worth it to the "Super Elite" or "Super Snowflaked" those for damage meter's will calmy say we gotten the message wrong or their poll is flawed, don't be fooled.

 

This just clearly shows you have no idea what you're talking about. If you think that's all combat logs are good for you are sadly mistaken. Also, where did you get this idea that it takes 30 min to analyse a log? You're just making stuff up now.

 

Again, stop with the name calling and insults.

[GalacticKegger]

A victory for terrible players everywhere.

More like a victory for choice. Edited March 14, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Niil]

If its one thing I learned about the Bioware dev team in the last 4 years ... is its useless to take apart and over analyze every word they say. Theyre not exactly extra careful with that they say nor do they rehearse or make sure theyre perfectly clear with everything. Theyre just humans answering questions. For all we know James Ohlen could still be talking about transferring and consolidating multiple personal logs to be able to get a fully detailed breakdown of everything.

 

You know I didn't think of it like that, but it makes sense in light of the comments during the Guild Summit.

 

If only I had a crystal ball that I could look into the future with =p

[DaxRendar]

Just because a developer used a poor choice of words, calling people "super elite", doesn't make it right. Please stop generalizing and name calling people. If you want people to take you seriously, try acting a little more civilized.

 

I raided in WoW for years, with a guild I loved and we did use recount, as a tool. I had an amazing time with them and all of us had lots of fun. From personal experience, I don't see how logs "ruin your fun". If you don't want to use them, then don't. Find a guild that shares your same views and play the game as you like. No one here is forcing you to do anything. Play the game as you like.

 

The same could be said right back at you about finding like-minded people who are willing to share their Combat Logs

Edited March 14, 2012 by DaxRendar

[DragonAgeOrgins]

This just clearly shows you have no idea what you're talking about. If you think that's all combat logs are good for you are sadly mistaken. Also, where did you get this idea that it takes 30 min to analyse a log? You're just making stuff up now.

 

Again, stop with the name calling and insults.

 

It says in detail you will have to log out of game. Either by lowering the client or going offline. No matter if it takes 10 or 15 minutes or shorter. You actually think I am going to join a PUG who demands to read logs?

 

Will he read about heals, dis spells. No only the damage part of the game. If everyone in my group takes more then 5 minutes of AFK for a log. I will use that time to secure their boot. Their is no name calling.

 

Bioware called you guys super elite. I perfer the term elitest. Even as your own poll show's lowering support for it. You finally got the dev's to throw it in there. Well good job, however remember you won't be able to play the game and parse data.

 

And let me remind you how Rift players downloaded parsers and was hit with Malware.

 

They thought it was a good idea, into their second month.

 

 

http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-general-discussions/tech-support/211357-concerns-about-using-rift-junkies-combat-parser.html

 

I am always concerned about security issues in MMO's. More so here because of the earlier loophole that Trion fixed. Now in order to use the combat parser I have to download java. I want to know if I download java will that increase my chances of getting malware because the ease at which software can be made using java? Meaning can malware/keyloogers use java as a backdoor to your system without you knowing it.

 

Also I have my settings set to low rendering and I am at about 10 fps, I am afraid that if I run the combat parser I would go down to around 2 or 1 fps. I know my system is not the best for playing this game. I do not have the money to afford upgrading or getting a new computer. If I could I would glady do it. But still I would like to know just how much damage my warrior build that I have on test is doing. Any help would be appreciated.

 

There you have it. In the second month Trion allowed paser's, even had a fan site make them. What happened next? people used java and parser's to hack other accounts and steal information from the server itself. Just say No to combat logs and we will all be happy.

[Atharyia]

The same could be said right back at you about finding like-minded people who are willing to share their Combat Logs

 

Who says I haven't?

[DarthKhaos]

It does seem that the majority of players don't care for the tools. Of those that come to the forums and vote, which could be regarded as people more likely to be interested in the metagame, some 70% have said they don't want combat logs. Again those 70% can be divided down into those that don't want any form of combat log for anything all the way through to those that don't actively want it but also don't care if someone else has it. Perhaps we need a more detailed poll than simply yes|no ?

 

 

I voted no because I don't want to metagame, I don't want to play the maths game. I simply want to enjoy the immersion of the game. Some people thought that me voting that I don't want logs means I wanted to deny them of logs too. This was not the case it was simply that I personally do not want logs. This assumption and subsequent attack made me think more about what other people having combat logs meant to me.

 

I don't begrudge someone their 'yes' vote and I understand why they want the logs and even why they might have voted yes. For some its so they can come over and be helpful. Telling me I could do 15% more damage over time if I do this instead of that and I should have this bar open and bind this to that, plus I need to respec and drop that interesting attack in favour of this one that every good player uses....

 

As a result of this extra consideration and a little more research into the history of combat logs in MMO games I don't want full combat logs for anyone. This is a selfish decision because combat logs would indirectly impact my game by changing the way the game is approached by at least some of those I group with. I am happy for personal combat logs that exist external to the game as a compromise or combat logs only on PVP servers where I think the hyper-competitive tend to reside but in general I don't want anyone to have access to full and detailed combat logs. Play the game, enjoy the story and leave the maths to the computer.

Ditto...

[MisterData]

More like a victory for choice.

 

You would have had the choice not to use it, and still will even with this gimped implementation.

[Matte_Black]

Just because a developer used a poor choice of words, calling people "super elite", doesn't make it right. Please stop generalizing and name calling people. If you want people to take you seriously, try acting a little more civilized.

 

I raided in WoW for years, with a guild I loved and we did use recount, as a tool. I had an amazing time with them and all of us had lots of fun. From personal experience, I don't see how logs "ruin your fun". If you don't want to use them, then don't. Find a guild that shares your same views and play the game as you like. No one here is forcing you to do anything. Play the game as you like.

 

WoW and SWTOR cater to different side of the middle of the playstyle spectrum. I'd dare say that your competive/hardcore WoW player, if they haven't left over missing features they are accustomed to, find themselves considered alot more elite in SWTOR. I feel like the devs see and have a good handle on who is playing their game. At the very least, that comments says something about where their thinking is on this topic.

[DarthKhaos]

This is a poor argument. You want data on a fight by fight basis, so that you can tell how you're doing on each boss. You want to know where you can improve on each individual fight, that's the point. The purpose to having easier to parse logs (and we know that almost as soon as they come out someone is going to write a program to parse it for us, thus eliminating the "extra work" bioware wants to put on us "super-elites") is so we can look at the data on the fly, so that after every single boss attempt/kill we can take a look at logs, see what players aren't pulling their weight and either direct them to sites to help them improve or boot them.

 

Then again, my whole outlook on MMO's is that if you suck, you shouldn't be playing with other people anyway, as you are directly ruining everyone else's fun. If I can't swear at you and call you names because it violates TOS, you shouldn't be allowed to play because your poor performance insults me and violates the TOS.

The first thing I underlined shows how you do not understand how to see if your changes granted an improvement. If you take one or two fights you will not get an accurate picture. This fight you might get a bunch of lucky crits or don't get those crits. Performance over time and averaging out the numbers are the best way to get a more accurate picture of your performance.

 

The second thing I underlined shows me that you do not need to be playing an MMO and interacting with people. FPS seems more like your thing.

Players do not start off l33t. They try, make mistakes, learn and grow like your characters in game. It is statements like this that proves what those against public logs are right about their concerns.

Edited March 14, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[DaxRendar]

Who says I haven't?

 

I'm happy for you!

 

Hopefully you are ok with BioWare's implementation as we understand it?

 

(And yes, I agree with you that DAO woke up on the wrong side of the bed (if not the continent) this morning - he and Starglide should be forced to live with each other with no other social contact for a week! )

Edited March 14, 2012 by DaxRendar

[sly_swg]

theorycrafting is a big part of the fun for me, not having the option to do it due to lack of combatlog just means one less reason to stick around for me.

I really think that a big part of the customers are being ignored here: the part that thrives on figuring out the mechanics, and loves to play with the possibilities you see while learning to understand the system. Imho 2 things are needed for these players that are missing: a combatlog, and a crafting system (crafting meaning the crafter can influence the outcome of the product....currently we only have an assembly system).

 

Over simplifying a game (eg also by making the talent tree in such a way that you only have 1 or 2 ways of spending your points) lowers the "threshold" to start the game, but also lowers the long term interest....

 

Before I started playing, and considering the mechanics I predicted I'd get bored after 5-6 months due to lack of complexity/possibilities.....turns out I was wrong as I haven't logged on in a week and it's only been 4 months since launch

[DaxRendar]

theorycrafting is a big part of the fun for me, not having the option to do it due to lack of combatlog just means one less reason to stick around for me.

I really think that a big part of the customers are being ignored here: the part that thrives on figuring out the mechanics, and loves to play with the possibilities you see while learning to understand the system.

 

But you are getting a Combat Log in 1.2... weren't you aware of that?

[Ravand]

So let me understand what the OP say... just to be sure

 

 

quote : The main reason I want combat logs is because I am pro-encounters with more mechanics that require on-the-fly analyzing as opposed to encounters with less mechanics with trial and error being the method of progression.

 

So he wants more complex and hard fights...

and mods to make those fights simpler and easier....

 

Threat meters, and all the assorted crap load of mods suck, and are not needed.

They turn a game into a race to find the next best mod model, to make the fight easier than intended.

I vote NO !

[Kamarbrown]

So let me understand what the OP say... just to be sure

 

 

quote : The main reason I want combat logs is because I am pro-encounters with more mechanics that require on-the-fly analyzing as opposed to encounters with less mechanics with trial and error being the method of progression.

 

So he wants more complex and hard fights...

and mods to make those fights simpler and easier....

 

Threat meters, and all the assorted crap load of mods suck, and are not needed.

They turn a game into a race to find the next best mod model, to make the fight easier than intended.

I vote NO !

 

we wants to know which baddie is holding everyone back.

[Matte_Black]

we wants to know which baddie is holding everyone back.

 

For the record, calling people "baddie" is not helping your cause.

[Ravand]

we wants to know which baddie is holding everyone back.

 

If you don't change the players in your guild like dirty socks, you should know who is a strong player and who is a weak player by doing HM instances with them.

 

If you cant clear the content of the game as it is... why should the game give you tools to help you ?

Lost of guilds clear all OPs in hard mode.

Maybe you are in the wrong guild.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Ravand

[Fiddyy]

Of course you are correct seeing as 30m downloads is not the same as 30m people downloading. No one is saying the majority will abuse it. I think the point being made is not that the majority will use it to grief, but that the majority feel it will have a detrimental effect and it will be used, by an annoying but loud minority, to grief.

 

Edit: The attitude above might be considered a case in point.

 

We'eve stated that our reasoning for wanting in game real logging is to better ourselves and the game. Yet, still here you are, saying that a minority of us might grief you and thus they shouldn't be allowed in the game. I guess the NBA shouldn't let Lebron play because he's good and is mean to the other players.

[Matte_Black]

We'eve stated that our reasoning for wanting in game real logging is to better ourselves and the game. Yet, still here you are, saying that a minority of us might grief you and thus they shouldn't be allowed in the game. I guess the NBA shouldn't let Lebron play because he's good and is mean to the other players.

 

If the other players paid to play in the NBA, yes.

[Andryah]

Both sides were equally insulting to each other. Not to mention, the attitude was a majority of the nay sayers' argument and the way they acted was atrocious and embarrassing. On any intellectual level. Without a response to the Story mode aspect taking any who disputes logs with the argument of fear of gauging or elitesticism seriously is extremely difficult. As a matter of fact, any posts still supporting that especially after the numerous interviews confirming that they didn't mean never, those posts should be auto deleted and I wish I could exclude them from the poll.

 

I say this with sincerity Starglide, you have been one of the more vocal peer bashers throughout the theads life. Your terse and biased comments in what I quoted above are further indicative of this. So I cannot consider your statement above to be objective.

 

I do not mean any disrepsect in this, I am telling you what I have personally observed. I have come to believe that you actually are not aware of your own words towards others sometimes.

 

We can agree to disagree, but you have no right to say such things as "posts should be auto deleted and I wish I could exclude them from the poll". I get it that you don't like people to disagree with you. But that does not make you right.

[Drewser]

We'eve stated that our reasoning for wanting in game real logging is to better ourselves and the game. Yet, still here you are, saying that a minority of us might grief you and thus they shouldn't be allowed in the game. I guess the NBA shouldn't let Lebron play because he's good and is mean to the other players.

 

Too bad in game logs do nothing to better the game.

[Divona]

Really simple and good decision from bioware. Those who want to play for game meters can have that. There will be threads with i got this amount and that amount and people can freely discuss/argue what is better or what is not so good. But main reason to keep rest who dont care or play the game for enjoyment rather than some meters.

 

I have played many mmo's that use ingame combat onscreen meters, you end up using it eventually as everyone else will and ask you do same. Then you only watch the meters rather enjoy game itself - that is a fact.

 

Voted No.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Divona

[DaxRendar]

We'eve stated that our reasoning for wanting in game real logging is to better ourselves and the game. Yet, still here you are, saying that a minority of us might grief you and thus they shouldn't be allowed in the game. I guess the NBA shouldn't let Lebron play because he's good and is mean to the other players.

 

Horrible example. By all accounts Lebron is supposed to be a pretty decent guy with his own teammates.

 

Professional Sports however are filled with examples of very talented players who have been traded or had their careers cut short because they were "disruptive influences" in the clubhouse/locker room. Reeves Nelson of UCLA might very well have ruined his chances at an NBA career because of it this year.

 

-You can better yourself with Personal Meters.

 

-You can find other like-minded individuals to share logs with if competition/constant analysis is important to you.

 

There is no need for Real Time Group Meters or Group Combat Logs in the game.