Marauders need to be balanced to Juggernauts.

[BDutch]

i think what alot of people dont understand is juggs have as many df cds as marauders its just 2 of them(taunt and aoe taunt) are def cds that are for using on others not on yourself. i can see how it seems unfair 1v1 but in a group aoe taunt =30% damage mit on x targets.

 

Unfortunately, when you are using a DPS spec, filling a DPS role in a DPS stance, you are the one that will get burned down. It would be like DPS deliberately taunting in a raid.

 

2/3 stances and 2/3 trees for Juggs/Guardians are DPS.

Edited April 9, 2012 by BDutch

[Anthiel]

Unfortunately, when you are using a DPS spec, filling a DPS roll in a DPS stance, you are the one that will get burned down. It would be like DPS deliberately taunting in a raid.

 

2/3 stances and 2/3 trees for Juggs/Guardians are DPS.

 

taunt and aoe taunt dont hurt you at all i thought we were talking about pvp here yea pve i can see how they are dick useless but pvp they are df cd's that have short cd's and low downsides.(and are available to all 3 specs|)

[RenegadeSLX]

This thread is a joke.

Thanks for the lolz.

[Anthiel]

with all the things censored and i can say dick lol guess it really is shorthand for richard and not my pecker like i was told.

[BDutch]

taunt and aoe taunt dont hurt you at all i thought we were talking about pvp here yea pve i can see how they are dick useless but pvp they are df cd's that have short cd's and low downsides.(and are available to all 3 specs|)

 

Say you have two targets right in front to pick from. Target-A has 5% less mitigation than Target-B. They both have the same HP. Target-B taunts you so you deal less 30% less damage to Target-A. Which target are you going to focus on?

[Anthiel]

Unfortunately, when you are using a DPS spec, filling a DPS role in a DPS stance, you are the one that will get burned down. It would be like DPS deliberately taunting in a raid.

 

2/3 stances and 2/3 trees for Juggs/Guardians are DPS.

 

oh yea all the caps DPS dosent mean DP**** to me its like your trying to say something smart i do not know when the truth is i already realized you cant taunt in a raid and it is you who is too stupid to know their df cd's in pvp but hey were all allowed to be ****in.g tarted sometimes i forgive you.

[-Vexus-]

Is this a joke? If you want to call yourself a tank, then spec tank. Don't sit here and cry when you spec dps and die the same way any other dps class would. Absolutely ridiculous things i'm seeing here.

 

If you're a juggernaut in tank spec and you die quicker than a marauder, then you shouldn't be playing a Juggernaut or any tank character for that matter.

 

How can someone possibly want to have the benefits of both Tank, Shield chance, absorption and damage output on the same level of a pure dps class? If you want that reroll a Sin/shadow tank with dps gear.

 

^^This^^

[BDutch]

oh yea all the caps DPS dosent mean DP**** to me its like your trying to say something smart i do not know when the truth is i already realized you cant taunt in a raid and it is you who is too stupid to know their df cd's in pvp but hey were all allowed to be ****in.g tarted sometimes i forgive you.

 

What?..

[Pcolapat]

I disagree with this post. Jugg dps are no more survivable than a marauder. Marauders in my opinion are not very survivable. I make this opinion on having played a jugg tank and a merc dps. As a jugg tank I don't do a lot of damage but I am extremely difficult to kill, and nearly impossible to kill if I am being healed. On my merc I can see this from the other perspective. If I see a person carrying two lightsabers, I am definitely going to target them. They go down very fast. However, they are also one of the classes that if they get on my merc, I am pretty much toast. So if I am at range on a marauder I take them down first.

 

The Jugg DPS class though is an odd horse. I have seen them do big damage in warzones, but I can tell you this. If they do not spec into the immortal tree, they are not going to be very hard to kill.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Pcolapat

[SinnedWill]

Rage Jugg > Rage Marauder every time if the jugg knows what he's doing - better damage, easier to buy time between smash cooldowns via CC, far fewer misses with smash, and even with a rage MARA popping all 3 defensive CD's a rage jugg will out-tank a rage Mara. As for the other dps spec of jugg, I wouldn't really know much about it - it only seems to tickle and every dps jugg on my server is now rage. Not all rage juggs know the best rotation/tactics, so there are always a few that stand out moreso based upon the skill of the player and the mods they stack.

 

Comparing "DPS Jugg" to all Marauder specs is too generic to clarify, but Rage specced Jugg is better than Rage-specced Mara. In 1.2 you'll notice significantly lower "god-mode" survivability out of annihilation marauder and the Carnage/Rage specs will play slightly differently compared to how they do now.

 

But seriously, you're either confused, misinformed, or a combination of both to assume that a marauder whom is probably getting at least 1 DEDICATED healer to keep him alive to be capable of having more survivability than a Jugg, even with all 3 defensive CD's ready.

[Zbus]

Juggs also have a push, which is an awesome tool in pvp.

 

And to all the people saying heavy armor doesn't matter, try putting light/medium armor on your jugg and see what happens.

 

I suggest you read some of taugrim tank guides in vanguard fourm they got a sticky up top should explain alot to you why tanks say what we do.

 

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/

Edited April 9, 2012 by Zbus

[LiveandDieinLA]

I suggest you read some of taugrim tank guides in vanguard fourm they got a sticky up top should explain alot to you why tanks say what we do.

 

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/

 

Oh I understand why you guys say heavy armor doesn't mean anything. So many attacks in this game bypass that mitigation that its as little ridiculous. But I still say that, inspite of all the QQing, most heavy armor users don't understand how much of an advantage that "crappy mitigation" is. Seriously though, show me a heavy armor class that put on light/medium armor and says there isn't a huge difference and I'll show you a liar.

[Zbus]

Oh I understand why you guys say heavy armor doesn't mean anything. So many attacks in this game bypass that mitigation that its as little ridiculous. But I still say that, inspite of all the QQing, most heavy armor users don't understand how much of an advantage that "crappy mitigation" is. Seriously though, show me a heavy armor class that put on light/medium armor and says there isn't a huge difference and I'll show you a liar.

 

Im not sure I would call taugrim a liar he is pretty good reliable source with the info he provides.

 

Anyway I guess the point is that if your going to use medium armor as a justification we could apply that to just about every class GS being a prime example medium armor, squishy, low life expectancy if focused. Consider how much damage a GS or sniper could do with a 99% damage shield for 5 secs absurd concept right? No one would agree to that but its ok for a Mara who puts out close to the same amount or more damage depending on spec.

[Xerain]

Rage Jugg > Rage Marauder every time if the jugg knows what he's doing - better damage, easier to buy time between smash cooldowns via CC, far fewer misses with smash, and even with a rage MARA popping all 3 defensive CD's a rage jugg will out-tank a rage Mara. As for the other dps spec of jugg, I wouldn't really know much about it - it only seems to tickle and every dps jugg on my server is now rage. Not all rage juggs know the best rotation/tactics, so there are always a few that stand out moreso based upon the skill of the player and the mods they stack.

 

Comparing "DPS Jugg" to all Marauder specs is too generic to clarify, but Rage specced Jugg is better than Rage-specced Mara. In 1.2 you'll notice significantly lower "god-mode" survivability out of annihilation marauder and the Carnage/Rage specs will play slightly differently compared to how they do now.

 

But seriously, you're either confused, misinformed, or a combination of both to assume that a marauder whom is probably getting at least 1 DEDICATED healer to keep him alive to be capable of having more survivability than a Jugg, even with all 3 defensive CD's ready.

 

 

Jugg healer > Mara healer.

[longgrassgrows]

its simple...people are mad because they beat the mara to an inch of their life...and then see the mara slowly gain more health then they are capable of dealing...what they fail to remember, is just how fast the mara got beaten to within an inch of their life...LOL

[Xerain]

Unfortunately, when you are using a DPS spec, filling a DPS role in a DPS stance, you are the one that will get burned down. It would be like DPS deliberately taunting in a raid.

 

2/3 stances and 2/3 trees for Juggs/Guardians are DPS.

 

3/3 stances and 3/3 trees for Marauder are dps. By your logic then Marauders should do more dps because we are more dps.

[SinnedWill]

So this has become QQ about Undying Rage instead of overall survivability? I don't get the QQ about Undying when tank-sins' force shroud is 5s IMMUNITY to damage+debuffs without sacrificing half their remaining health. Yes, for the duration of undying rage, a Marauder will out-tank a Jugg - obviously. But DPS jugg survivability will mostly come from proper application/execution of CC abilities (and this is CERTAINLY true). Furthermore, if you're a jugg fighting a marauder that has used Undying Rage, all you have to do is force choke (unless the marauder has stun-break, in which case you push) since by the time you've realised the marauder popped undying rage, they will likely only have 3s remaining. Then the marauder is a free kill.

 

How to counter undying rage: Use DoT's (which will persist after it expires), apply debuffs (slows/roots/armor breaks), use Stuns, Pushes, Pulls, etc. (unless they're at max resolve, in which case just use DoT's/Debuffs), save your big damage attacks for it to expire, and upon undying rage expiring, finish the guy off with smash/force scream/vicious throw if you're a jugg (unless you foolishly attempted all three while undying rage was active, in which case you're to blame for not DoT'ing/debuffing and wasting your window of opportunity, so you might as well just switch targets since the marauder is likely to force camo before they're ready again).

Edited April 9, 2012 by SinnedWill

[TheNotorius]

ITT: Marauders defending their class

[Blloodbane]

So this has become QQ about Undying Rage instead of overall survivability? I don't get the QQ about Undying when tank-sins' force shroud is 5s IMMUNITY to damage+debuffs without sacrificing half their remaining health. Yes, for the duration of undying rage, a Marauder will out-tank a Jugg - obviously. But DPS jugg survivability will mostly come from proper application/execution of CC abilities (and this is CERTAINLY true). Furthermore, if you're a jugg fighting a marauder that has used Undying Rage, all you have to do is force choke (unless the marauder has stun-break, in which case you push) since by the time you've realised the marauder popped undying rage, they will likely only have 3s remaining. Then the marauder is a free kill.

 

How to counter undying rage: Use DoT's (which will persist after it expires), apply debuffs (slows/roots/armor breaks), use Stuns, Pushes, Pulls, etc. (unless they're at max resolve, in which case just use DoT's/Debuffs), save your big damage attacks for it to expire, and upon undying rage expiring, finish the guy off with smash/force scream/vicious throw if you're a jugg (unless you foolishly attempted all three while undying rage was active, in which case you're to blame for not DoT'ing/debuffing and wasting your window of opportunity, so you might as well just switch targets since the marauder is likely to force camo before they're ready again).

 

^^^ This!

 

Couldnt say it better.... *tips hat*

 

another option is run if they have force speed or something, after 5 seconds get back to it...

[SinnedWill]

Jugg healer > Mara healer.

 

I'll assume you mean Jugg + Healer > Mara + Healer. In which case I'll both agree and disagree. Rage Jugg + Healer IS > Rage Mara + Healer simply because Rage Jugg > Rage Mara. But other Jugg specs + Healer being greater than any Mara Spec + Healer depends on the situation and types of enemies you're facing. I have a carnage marauder and although I'm difficult for most healers to keep up with, let alone keep alive due to my squishyness, a mobile Operative healer is very effective as my partner. In many situations, the simple fact that I can kill enemies so quickly can arguably be more effective at keeping the healer alive (in addition to the fact that I have lots of roots to keep melees and close-ranged enemies off of the healer and I'm still likely to be targeted even with a healer present due to the burst-dps and root-capability). So... again, Jugg + Healer isn't always > Mara + Healer.

[Anbokr]

Give me tank stance and the ability to spam taunt while DPSing. Then we'll talk.

 

The best juggs on my server just sit in tank stance as rage; they get a lot more mitigation and protect our healers while still dropping the occasional smash bombs. People completely forget that hybrid DPS can spam/chain taunts which will be INVALUABLE for rateds.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Anbokr

[Trauglodyte]

I'm going to ask the quite obvious question to everyone, regardless of their position on the fence:

 

Why do Marauders/Sentinels "need" that much defense?

[AstralProjection]

I'm going to ask the quite obvious question to everyone, regardless of their position on the fence:

 

Why do Marauders/Sentinels "need" that much defense?

 

Again, because they're a MDPS class with no Stealth in Medium Armor that drops like a fly with their cooldowns down.

[SinnedWill]

ITT: Marauders defending their class

 

I play Madness Sorc (main), Carnage Mara, Parakeet P-Tech, Marksmanship Sniper, Tank-Sin, and can honestly say that I'm stating things objectively. All of my classes can counter Marauders; 1v1 against a Marauder, I'm about 50-60% at winning as Sorc./Sniper (on even ground and against a GOOD player). And 90-99% as P-Tech/Sniper (on perch)/Tank-Sin. I won't bother with stating mara vs. mara win % since it usually comes down to who has more cooldowns ready.

 

Knowing how to counter a marauder (and this certainly varies between the 3 specs) is all that it takes to beat one (regardless of whether or not it's a 1v1). All I can say is that roots are marauder's biggest vulnerability.

[Cruxe]

I'm going to ask the quite obvious question to everyone, regardless of their position on the fence:

 

Why do Marauders/Sentinels "need" that much defense?

 

1.) Medium Armor

2.) Melee

3.) No true self heals

4.) Shortage of CC