Darth Maul's Return

[Solomier]

I see, so the argument is that force will keep you alive through any trauma you may suffer. You dont need to have your blood filtered and cleaned, because the force will do it for you. Your blood pressure doesnt need to be regulated, because the force will do it for you.

 

Thats a pretty all inclusive argument there. I guess logic and medical science can just be thrown out the window.

 

The guy who was cut in half, in real life, still had a functioning kidney. If you think kidneys arent necessary, I'd recommend doing some research.

 

The only problem at this point then, is that according to 'Darth Plagueis', Maul was designed as a weapon. Just a weapon, no force mastery was taught to him. No secrets of the sith were taught to him. He was taught to fight and thats it.

 

So a guy who was never taught to use the force for something other than fighting, now has the ability to keep himself alive in the face of a massive traumatic injury, use the force to cleanse his blood and regulate his blood pressure, maintain consciousness and crawl away to fight another day.

 

Thats seems like a pretty steep learning curve.

 

Well yeah its a steep learning curve but its the "Force", so once you learn it you are opened up to all sorts of knowledge and control that you didnt have before....lol.....

And By the way.....i like cheese

 

[Morticoccus]

Just like getting your hand cut off and also tossed into a reactor, and conveniently falling square into a garbage disposer?

 

What's more, the hand *comes back* in a manner of speaking years later.

 

All the more reason to have the legs as their own character, powered by the dark side, kicking anything that moves. =p

[Kelfred]

So all the training that the jedi undergo is pointless because in the end all they really have to do is wish upon the force and it happens.

 

The same with the sith, they dont really need to pass on their secrets from master to apprentice, because it all boils down to wish fulfillment.

[ghettogenius]

I see, so the argument is that force will keep you alive through any trauma you may suffer. You dont need to have your blood filtered and cleaned, because the force will do it for you. Your blood pressure doesnt need to be regulated, because the force will do it for you.

 

Thats a pretty all inclusive argument there. I guess logic and medical science can just be thrown out the window.

 

The guy who was cut in half, in real life, still had a functioning kidney. If you think kidneys arent necessary, I'd recommend doing some research.

 

The only problem at this point then, is that according to 'Darth Plagueis', Maul was designed as a weapon. Just a weapon, no force mastery was taught to him. No secrets of the sith were taught to him. He was taught to fight and thats it.

 

So a guy who was never taught to use the force for something other than fighting, now has the ability to keep himself alive in the face of a massive traumatic injury, use the force to cleanse his blood and regulate his blood pressure, maintain consciousness and crawl away to fight another day.

 

Thats seems like a pretty steep learning curve.

 

I seem to recall reading Leah use the force to heal Mon Mothma on an atomic level when she had some sort of terminal illness. She had very little training as well. Just sayin.

[Sneakycheeks]

In the movie he was cut in half at the waist, would that not kill him?

 

You forget that in Episode III Anakin had all of his limbs sliced off..and was set on fire by molten lava..but yet because of his intense hatred for Obi Wan he managed to keep himself alive by using the force until Palptine found him.

[Wolfninjajedi]

You forget that in Episode III Anakin had all of his limbs sliced off..and was set on fire by molten lava..but yet because of his intense hatred for Obi Wan he managed to keep himself alive by using the force until Palptine found him.

 

Well that and Anakin had an unbreakable will.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Sneakycheeks]

Well that and Anakin had an unbreakable will.

 

Yeah there's that too ^^

[Kelfred]

Today , 09:54 PM

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelfred

I see, so the argument is that force will keep you alive through any trauma you may suffer. You dont need to have your blood filtered and cleaned, because the force will do it for you. Your blood pressure doesnt need to be regulated, because the force will do it for you.

 

Thats a pretty all inclusive argument there. I guess logic and medical science can just be thrown out the window.

 

The guy who was cut in half, in real life, still had a functioning kidney. If you think kidneys arent necessary, I'd recommend doing some research.

 

The only problem at this point then, is that according to 'Darth Plagueis', Maul was designed as a weapon. Just a weapon, no force mastery was taught to him. No secrets of the sith were taught to him. He was taught to fight and thats it.

 

So a guy who was never taught to use the force for something other than fighting, now has the ability to keep himself alive in the face of a massive traumatic injury, use the force to cleanse his blood and regulate his blood pressure, maintain consciousness and crawl away to fight another day.

 

Thats seems like a pretty steep learning curve.

 

I seem to recall reading Leah use the force to heal Mon Mothma on an atomic level when she had some sort of terminal illness. She had very little training as well. Just sayin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats just poor writing. Its reminiscent of the greeks usage of deus ex machina, 'then a god shows up'. Essentially the situation is all fubar, but then a god shows up at the last minute and sets everything right.

 

It utterly invalidates the entire concept of getting younglings, training them, the padawan process, knighthood, mastery, etc. Really all you have to do is wish upon a star really hard and it'll all be ok. Training isnt necessary at all.

 

Weak. But then if the author had any actual talent, they'd probably be writing something other than star wars novels.

[Morticoccus]

Well according to the movie and all lore, that is exactly what happens. The cut is cauterized pretty much instantly.

 

 

 

A different race using the Dark Side of the force may very well not even have let alone need kidneys.

 

Which from a physics standpoint is pretty unlikely, flesh doesn't cauterize if flash heated, it explodes.

 

And steam explosions are not exactly beneficial to rapid clotting...

 

As for the kidneys, if they're there, the species can be pretty much guaranteed to need them, the kidneys filter all the crap that the body wants out of its circulatory system so without them you are going to feel the heat pretty quickly...

[VanorDM]

Which from a physics standpoint...

 

Physics is so far out the window that it simply doesn't matter when you are talking about Star Wars. So what should happen isn't at all the same as what does happen.

 

As for the kidneys, if they're there

 

Do we know that he even has kidneys? Do we know where they are? Do know if he has other organs that can take over that function? Do we know that the Force can't do the same thing?

[Morticoccus]

Physics is so far out the window that it simply doesn't matter when you are talking about Star Wars. So what should happen isn't at all the same as what does happen.

 

Good point.

 

Do we know that he even has kidneys? Do we know where they are? Do know if he has other organs that can take over that function? Do we know that the Force can't do the same thing?

 

I guess if the dark side can keep you alive filled with Orbalisk venom then it can take care of some urea, erythrocyte castoffs and whatever you drank last night.

[Kelfred]

Do zabrak have kidneys? Theres no way to answer that, as you well know.

 

Best guess would be that since the majority of evolution seems to have trended towards carbon based, bipedal life forms that there would be other similarities as well.

 

Do zabraks have blood? If they do, then it builds up toxins and needs to be filtered. If they dont have kidneys, then they have something darn close to it in functionality.

 

There is a limited amount of space in the torso. Zabraks were noted to have two hearts in an earlier post, this would leave even less room, assuming that both hearts are human sized.

 

The kidneys or whatever passes for the kidneys would likely be located close to the urinary tract, again likely evolution would dictate that such organs would be in close proximity.

[Aitix]

I see, so the argument is that force will keep you alive through any trauma you may suffer. You dont need to have your blood filtered and cleaned, because the force will do it for you. Your blood pressure doesnt need to be regulated, because the force will do it for you.

 

Thats a pretty all inclusive argument there. I guess logic and medical science can just be thrown out the window.

 

The guy who was cut in half, in real life, still had a functioning kidney. If you think kidneys arent necessary, I'd recommend doing some research.

 

The only problem at this point then, is that according to 'Darth Plagueis', Maul was designed as a weapon. Just a weapon, no force mastery was taught to him. No secrets of the sith were taught to him. He was taught to fight and thats it.

 

So a guy who was never taught to use the force for something other than fighting, now has the ability to keep himself alive in the face of a massive traumatic injury, use the force to cleanse his blood and regulate his blood pressure, maintain consciousness and crawl away to fight another day.

 

Thats seems like a pretty steep learning curve.

 

Even though Maul was just a weapon, Force mastery was taught to him just like Luke was taught Force mastery back on Dagobah. Sidious would be a fool not to teach Maul mastery over the Force. Also, it's not his knowledge in the Force that keeps Maul alive, but his sheer anger and anger powers the dark side. It doesn't matter what organ a dark sider loses, because through his hate, he can survive. Just look at Maw and Simus.

[valin-krai]

Unlike Maul, Anakin had no training in the Dark side and survived Mustafar, pain gives Sith focus on using the Dark side, Maul had the willpower, he had survived on Mustafar with few visits from Palpatine in his time, presumably not living a life of luxury and had his wounds would have been cauterized to some degree, though he did speay some bblood in TPM.

[EdAraujo]

Darth Maul 'survival' is worst than a weak Arthas killing Illidan. And worst the Illidan survival.

Really.

This is just poor writing (well, maybe theirs bosses demanded that Darth Maul was 'resurrected' due to his popularity). >_<

[Kelfred]

Agreed, this is just poor writing trying to capitalize on a popular character.

 

In regard to the force mastery issue, Sidius is very clear that he did not teach Maul anything besides fighting jedi. He is similarly clear that he did not teach Maul any force powers or sith secrets.

 

So, again, what you're saying is that all the training from apprentice to master of the dark side is useless because all you have to really do is get mad and then you can do anything.

 

This is nothing but weak writing.

 

As for Anakin surviving, the jedi turned dark side dont instantly forget everything they've learned once they've turned dark. Also his wounds were severe, but less than Maul's. And his power in the force was unparalleled. Yet he still nearly died.

 

So, Anakin had better training, more power, lesser wounds, and he still nearly croaked.

 

You're argument though is that Maul got really, really mad. Like if Rush Limbaugh were refused service at IHOP mad.

 

Mad isnt enough is my argument. Anakin nearly died and he had all the benefits that Maul didnt.

 

Saying that he survived is nothing but a slap in the face to fans by an author out to make a buck.

[darksidechampion]

If i remember right doesn't maul use force powers like lightning and was also said to have really good telekinesis so why would he not be able to survive and isn't this fiction so anything can happen?

[Kelfred]

I didnt see him use any force lightning in the movie.

 

He did jump around a lot, which would imply telekinesis. However, I expect that this would be part and parcel of his training to fight.

 

I think there would be a huge difference between jumping around and throwing things and maintaining homeostasis in the body without the organs that do such for you.

 

The body, human or I suppose otherwise, is incredibly intricate and requires everything working together in the proper manner.

 

Discussing the kidneys is getting tiresome, but lets look at what they do, according to wikipedia; 'The kidneys are responsible for regulating blood water levels, re-absorption of substances into the blood, maintenance of salt and ion levels in the blood, regulation of blood pH, and excretion of urea and other wastes.'

 

This is incredibly delicate and precise work, your organs do it for you, so its taken for granted.

 

Further;' Other diseases which result from a homeostatic imbalance include diabetes, dehydration, hypoglycemia, hyperglycemia, gout and any disease caused by the presence of a toxin in the bloodstream. Medical intervention can help restore homeostasis and possibly prevent permanent damage to the organs.'

 

So you're going to buy in to the concept that a guy who is a force novice, never trained to do anything but fight, can suddenly manage all of the above 24/7, even in his sleep.

 

Yeah, its fiction, but its sloppy, lazy fiction.

[Hauvarn]

Guys, they brought back darth maul in the cartoon so that kids would want to see star wars episode 1 in 3d. Thats probably the sole reason why he's back.

[KhromeHawk]

Same way Luke survived after his plunge down the Cloud City air shaft, I imagine.

[KhromeHawk]

Guys, they brought back darth maul in the cartoon so that kids would want to see star wars episode 1 in 3d. Thats probably the sole reason why he's back.

 

Exactly

[psandak]

It's fiction people.

 

I akin Darth Maul's return the same as Boba Fett surviving the Sarlacc (EU: Bounty Hunter Wars) - Poetic/Creative License. Who cares how it happened? It happened. Love it or hate it, you are all talking about a fictional universe where miraculous events happen all the time (compared to our universe of course) and in fantasy you sometimes have to simply suspend disbelief. Make up whatever reason your brain can wrap itself around and go with it.

 

I just saw TPM in 3D and I happened to pay attention to that moment when Maul was falling down the shaft. His eyes were wide open, his arms were flailing around; he was alive. And besides the blood vapor that came out of him when the strike came, I saw no other blood; like every other severed limb we've ever seen at the hands of a lightsaber...no blood/wound cauterized.

 

So through the power of the Force he managed to survive. Nuff Said. There's an old saying about "faith" that seems apt - if you believe then no explanation is necessary, if you don't then nothing can explain it. In this case, the opposite is true - if you can suspend disbelief no explanation is necessary, if not then no plausible explanation will be satisfactory.

Edited March 15, 2012 by psandak

[Wolfninjajedi]

Guys, they brought back darth maul in the cartoon so that kids would want to see star wars episode 1 in 3d. Thats probably the sole reason why he's back.

 

Or maybe its the fact, fans whined and complained about his death that brought him back. Before TPM in 3d came out, Wrath of Maul did on Jan 1st. They seemed to be fine with Maul dying all this time, so why should they bring him back just because they are re-releasing the movie in 3d?

Edited March 15, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Kelfred]

So what you're saying is that Star Wars is fiction. That really needed to be said?

 

If you can suspend disbelief on this and its necessary for you to believe that Maul survived, then ok. Not that you need my permission or anything.

 

However it being fiction doesnt mean that some critical thinking shouldnt be applied. I believe fiction is better if it has a dose of realism with it. This fails on several levels.

 

If Maul had extensive training in the force in the area of healing and maintaining life, I'd be willing to buy it. Heck, I'd like to buy it, Maul is a cool character.

 

Theres no way I can say this without sounding patronizing and condescending, but from my education and background and area of knowledge, this doesnt meet the requirements for suspension of disbelief. There are just too many mitigating factors against it.

 

I would have been more willing to buy into his coming back as an angry force ghost and taking possession of somebody, except again, he has no force mastery to speak of and shouldnt be capable of that either.

 

Or maybe his PO'd twin brother comes back and gets all medieval on Obi wan.

 

Anything other than a Monty Pythonesque black knight, 'I've suffered worse' scenario.

[Wolfninjajedi]

So what you're saying is that Star Wars is fiction. That really needed to be said?

 

If you can suspend disbelief on this and its necessary for you to believe that Maul survived, then ok. Not that you need my permission or anything.

 

However it being fiction doesnt mean that some critical thinking shouldnt be applied. I believe fiction is better if it has a dose of realism with it. This fails on several levels.

 

If Maul had extensive training in the force in the area of healing and maintaining life, I'd be willing to buy it. Heck, I'd like to buy it, Maul is a cool character.

 

Theres no way I can say this without sounding patronizing and condescending, but from my education and background and area of knowledge, this doesnt meet the requirements for suspension of disbelief. There are just too many mitigating factors against it.

 

I would have been more willing to buy into his coming back as an angry force ghost and taking possession of somebody, except again, he has no force mastery to speak of and shouldnt be capable of that either.

 

Or maybe his PO'd twin brother comes back and gets all medieval on Obi wan.

 

Anything other than a Monty Pythonesque black knight, 'I've suffered worse' scenario.

 

Not only did he get sliced in half though, but he also hit himself pretty hard against the pit walls I would imagine that could also cause some really bad trauma.