Why do so many in mmo's now hate grouping?

[MaverickXIV]

Has anyone ever stopped to think that someone is being considerate when they don't group? I know that I like to tab out and just generally AFK at random times when leveling, and doing that to a group would be very unfair. Setting aside time to do a group quest is one thing, or temporarily grouping for a single quests's objective is fine, but who in their right mind would want to group with a stranger at all times for everything?

[Badlander]

While this is not my reason, I have to wonder.. why can't you just spell "people"?

 

Guess i spell something like people as PPL because of habit over doing text on my cellphone.

[Ansultares]

I see so many posts now how ppl hate being in guilds and being forced to group to do some of the things in game.

 

Why in the heck are these ppl playing an mmo? If these ppl had their way we would be playing a single player game ( which at this point we are not far from ) but they are only making it worse.

 

What has happened to the mmo gaming world? It used to be great ppl wanted to group and all that stuff now it seems ppl have become very antisocial.

BW did as best a job as they could dissuading grouping, only to slap a really obvious (and onerous) time-sink grind on the game, social points.

 

Anyway, your answer is AQT; AQT is killing the genre. AQT is a hell of a drug.

 

Has anyone ever stopped to think that someone is being considerate when they don't group?

Not if you don't say so.

 

Sure it does-if nearly all my experiences with others are negative

I find that hard to believe.

 

Uh...we ARE anti-social, thats why we play mmo's

I'm only anti-social when I'm actively subscribed to an MMO.

 

This ^^

 

The trend for solo play is the direct result of yesterdays gamers having grown up. We are less tolerant of others and wont be pigeon holed, contrary to some of the reason put up on the first page it has nothing to do with "instant gratification" or an unwillingness to share loot. It's simply a case of being to old to put up with pubeuscent adolesence and uni/college students, hence why we often dont join guilds or if we do takes us a long time to find the right one. For the record we've been playing MMO's before many of you were on solid food.

Apparently you can't seek out or put up with each other, either.

 

I still think it's instant-grat, because yours is also the same demographic which keeps claiming they don't have the time for this or that, nor can they accept it taking one month to achieve instead of the one week it does for "pubeuscent adolesence and uni/college students."

 

The only thing I can relate to is the inability to adhere to a raid schedule, even though it's the most practical means for engaging in raid content if you have a limited schedule. But that just comes back to asking your demographic to settle for what they themselves can achieve given their own effort, in this case asking them to settle for not seeing raid content first-hand while it's still relevant.

 

Personally, I'm not concerned about missing out on raid content, and so I don't sit on a forum and whine about how I'm not seeing a given raid.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Ansultares

[Geoduck]

I don't know about everyone else who doesn't group a lot, but I like MMOs because it allows me to experience and explore a large perpetual world.

 

I never have played MMOs for the grouping aspect. For me just because it it "Massively Multiplayer" means that I share the world with many people, NOT that I should have to be forced to play the game with them.

 

I have been playing MMOS since I picked up a copy of Meridian in my BX back in the 90's. I group when I want to. I don't feel and never have that the genre should make people group. There should be content for all to experience.

 

I used to group in EQ soooo much, but post WoW I have become a MMO loner. The quality of player and community has degraded so much, that I would prefer to avoid the vast majority of people I come across ingame.

 

Its not a casual v. hardcore issue. I am a hardcore soloer. I will group, but its not my first choice.

[wifeaggro]

I see so many posts now how ppl hate being in guilds and being forced to group to do some of the things in game.

 

Why in the heck are these ppl playing an mmo? If these ppl had their way we would be playing a single player game ( which at this point we are not far from ) but they are only making it worse.

 

What has happened to the mmo gaming world? It used to be great ppl wanted to group and all that stuff now it seems ppl have become very antisocial.

its actually a small segment most of the veteran MMOplayers want more grouping and more guild content. its usally the foodstamp solo player that makes those post. they dont sub in MMO's more than a cycle and probably make up less then 10 % of the gamming community.

[Dibdabs]

I see so many posts now how ppl hate being in guilds and being forced to group to do some of the things in game.

 

Why in the heck are these ppl playing an mmo?

 

That's easy. Plenty of people to Craft things that I haven't the time (or just can't be bothered) to Craft. Auction House to sell items to players for more than a vendor will give me and also to buy Resources I haven't the time (or can't be bothered) to collect. Seasonal events. Joining in the occasional discussion in the chat box and observing people amusingly venting their spleen over nothing. People always available to answer questions in Chat.

 

What STOPS me grouping these days? Well, I used to join/form groups a lot about 10 or 12 years ago, but there are way too many unintelligent, inarticulate, whiny, greedy griefers about who think that that the height of social interaction is to throw out the odd acronym every few minutes. Sorry, but lengthy silences interspersed with textspeak like "lol", "ok" and "***" just doesn't cut it with me.

I realise there will be some worthwhile players out there but life is too short to waste time trying to find that 1 player in a 100.

[Badlander]

A bud of mine just said something to me in guild chat about my post that made a ton of sense. He said want to know what has killed grouping in MMO's just read general chat for a bit... Edited March 11, 2012 by Badlander

[Ansultares]

What STOPS me grouping these days? Well, I used to join/form groups a lot about 10 or 12 years ago, but there are way too many unintelligent, inarticulate, whiny, greedy griefers about who think that that the height of social interaction is to throw out the odd acronym every few minutes. Sorry, but lengthy silences interspersed with textspeak like "lol", "ok" and "***" just doesn't cut it with me.

I realise there will be some worthwhile players out there but life is too short to waste time trying to find that 1 player in a 100.

So you wait for them to strike up the conversation?

 

Or do you just not even bother to give people a chance any longer?

[Master-Nala]

I like playing with a large amount of people around me. I like grouping for heroics and FP. But I don't particularly like grouping all the time. I enjoy reading the stories and taking my time and having fun. All too often groups want to just GO GO and run through content as fast as possible to get the shinies.

 

Now, I've done that too in other games, I have nothing against doing it. But this early in the game I want to see what's happening so I only group for things that need a group.

[Elysith]

Solo and Group contents are not mutually exclusive in a MMO. It can have both with more or less focus on one or the other.

 

Concerning SWTOR, since the first announcement about the game to the release day, the game has been promoted -to put it simply- as a "single player game with MMO capabilities".

 

So obviously SWTOR has been made to emphasize the hero and its solo story. It should not come as a surprise unless your purchased the game without background information about it.

 

So I think that explains for a part why many players in the game are not often interested into grouping. They've purchased SWTOR for what it has been sold for.

 

Then optionally if you wish to team up for the solo content you still can.

The only clearly multiplayer oriented activities are the Heroics, FlashPoint and Operations, and naturally PvP.

 

Maybe Bioware will focus the game development more on the multiplayer aspect for the future updates and expansions. But then will the more solo-centered players will still be interested or will they leave the game if they have nothing new to play but group content? Or maybe Bioware will find a balance between the two? Playing is certainly less stressful than choosing the game direction

Edited March 11, 2012 by Elysith

[Dibdabs]

So you wait for them to strike up the conversation?

 

Or do you just not even bother to give people a chance any longer?

 

If addressed in an articulate manner I would reciprocate out of good manners, but would have no interest in grouping other than maybe a few minutes to help someone out with a tricky mob. I group with RL friends and family in the various MMOs we play, but have zero interest in sorting the wheat from the chaff by grouping with strangers for any length of time. Years of experience have proved it isn't worth it.

[Derfmiolleh]

Selfish people "need loot" things they cant equip.

Bossy people pushing everyone around.

Mean people calling others names.

Stupid people not resting between fights.

Wretched people complaining about everything.

Thoughtless people going afk every 5 minutes.

 

I friggen hate being in bad groups but I absolutely love a good one.

Good groups are very hard to find now days.

If this was a single player game I would still be playing.

[Xienive]

Everything is just too easy really because of companions.

[Elysith]

Selfish people "need loot" things they cant equip.

Bossy people pushing everyone around.

Mean people calling others names.

Stupid people not resting between fights.

Wretched people complaining about everything.

Thoughtless people going afk every 5 minutes.

 

I friggen hate being in bad groups but I absolutely love a good one.

.......

 

That's so true

That's why I'm not so motivated to group for the solo doable quests.

 

But to find the good ones, unless you're lucky to get them immediately, you have to seek out new mates.

And I rather sort them out while not required, than while doing a group-needed content

So it's kinda a dilemma.

 

Of course the easiest is to just team up with pre-existing friends if hopefully they've joined the same game, but that's not always the case.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Elysith

[Gwena]

I certainly don't hate grouping, but I don't do it often for various reasons:

 

- Avoiding jerks: there are nice players out there but there are a lot of rude and mean people too, and I just don't want to deal with that. I play to have fun, not to get stressed.

- Pace: I want to play at my own pace. Groups tend to try and go as fast as possible (especially annoying as a healer). And I am just not that speedy.

- Interruptions: a lot of my play time is subject to short but fairly frequent interruptions. Either that, or I am alternating homework (reading) with questing.

Difficulty in finding one: once you hit the 30's it seems like finding a group is a royal pain. I never was able to find a group outside my guild to do the Voss Heroic 4 quests with. ;_;

 

That said, I do enjoy doing things with my guild a couple nights a week, and almost always appreciate an invite to group with someone in the area when we have a shared quest objective. And I very much like being in a game world that is alive with other players that I can chat and trade with.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Gwena

[Lymain]

I certainly don't hate grouping, but I don't do it often for various reasons:

 

- Avoiding jerks: there are nice players out there but there are a lot of rude and mean people too, and I just don't want to deal with that. I play to have fun, not to get stressed.

- Pace: I want to play at my own pace. Groups tend to try and go as fast as possible. And I am just not that speedy.

- Interruptions: a lot of my play time is subject to short but fairly frequent interruptions. Either that, or I am alternating homework (reading) with questing.

- Healing can be tricky: I am happy to be the healer in a friendly group that supports me, but I'm not about to volunteer to do it for a group of potential jerks and/or idiots.

 

That said, I do enjoy doing things with my guild a couple nights a week, and almost always appreciate an invite to group with someone in the area when we have a shared quest objective. And I very much like being in a game world that is alive with other players that I can chat and trade with.

 

Well said. The other thing is that spending a large portion of your limited playtime just getting a group organized can be discouraging. People can jump right into solo content at any time.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Lymain

[Vecke]

In my very humble opinion based on my admittedly anecdotal experience in several mmo's... the evolution of the group and guild mentality has done more damage to grouping than solo players and game designers could ever do.

 

Do you like to quest slowly and listen to (or read) the quest? Good luck finding a group that will tolerate it.

 

Do you want to slowly explore a dungeon? Good luck finding a group that will tolerate it.

 

Do you think that you only have to build your specs enough to kill the mob? Do you think that it doesn't matter if you kill the mob in 4 seconds as opposed to 9 seconds as long as you win the fight? Good luck finding a group that won't consider you a drain.

 

Are you willing to take a slight hit on stats (as long as you can still beat the enemies) because you really love the way that armor looks? Good luck finding a group that won't consider you a drain and an "RPer".

 

Absolutely true story: The last time I joined a WZ, as soon as I loaded in, a person on our team immediately started giving orders on who has to do what, based on their class. He told everybody what they had to do and where they needed to go (some of which made no sense), then he said, "And if you're not willing to do your part here, plz log out and uninstall the game b/c you don't belong here."

 

That's why I don't typically avoid grouping. It has nothing to do with "easy mode." It's very rare in MMOs where grouping is harder than soloing. It's a light-speed blast through a dungeon, maximizing every second, then watching people bicker because they ran a parse and saw that one person didn't do "their fair share" of the damage. I just don't consider that fun.

[flyersfan]

Why in the heck are these ppl playing an mmo?

 

Because they're BioWare fans. They wanted KotOR III and are making due with what BioWare has thrown our way. Obviously, that's not all of these people, but I'm certainly one of them. I've forced myself to accept the MMO things, but I'm starting to drift from it.

 

What has happened to the mmo gaming world? It used to be great ppl wanted to group and all that stuff now it seems ppl have become very antisocial.

 

WoW is what happened to the MMO gaming world. Its mass popularity led to a swarm of a-holes and dimwits in the MMO world. From what I hear, that game was so riddled with just general a-hole behaviour that people took special care to avoid general chat and the like. The same ideology has been brought to TOR. Players avoid general chat out of habit. It's not that people are anti-social as much as it's the pre-existing habits that MMO players have. I can tell the noobs from the veterans here because the noobs will actually talk in general chat with other players (obviously, this does not encompass all players). Many people are literally afraid of group content because of the way that many MMO players behave.

 

I'll quote a small back and forth from another thread about anti-social behaviour:

 

Warcraft killed the MMO community. It became such a vile abusive place that you dare not speak in general for fear of abuse and pugs became souless groups riddled with ninja's and bad attitude.

 

Yep. Common practise on the lower level planets on my servers (Jung Ma & Mind Trick) is to just turn off general, put the blinders up, and continue to do your business. The mass popularity of WoW brought out all the wrong people and now many players are literally afraid to pipe up in general chat. When I ask for a group, I get whispers rather than responses in general chat, which always surprises me.

 

Most pick up groups are horrid and whatever sense of pleasantries that WoW instilled is very poor. Fortunately, I never played that game, so I don't know exactly what went down. However, I get the sense that it's all business while levelling, which I find sad, especially in TOR where levelling is the true meat of the game for now. Most people don't seem to tolerate any kind of "stopping to smell the roses" or anything of the sort. Once the heroic is done and the loot is collected, all I see is "thanks for group" followed by "typical MMO player left the group." The odds of me even turning in the mission to get social points are really bad, even though we just about follow each other to the NPC. It makes no sense to me. Also, the odds of any conversations during the time in group are also very bad.

 

I haven't really had an issue with ninjas, though. Occasionally I get the tool that rolls need for a companion without asking, but it's been only a handful of times. The problem I have with that is that all they had to do was ask. I would've given my consent as long as no player in the group needed the item. Not asking just makes you look like an ******e.

[Elysith]

In my very humble opinion based on my admittedly anecdotal experience in several mmo's... the evolution of the group and guild mentality has done more damage to grouping than solo players and game designers could ever do.

 

Do you like to quest slowly and listen to (or read) the quest? Good luck finding a group that will tolerate it.

 

Do you want to slowly ......

 

Exactly.

 

If there is dialogue that I want to skip (such as the level 50 dailies, that I've heard over over and over again), I would not mind at all if someone in my party would take his time to listen each of them normally.

 

Sadly as you say, some players have no patience for others when it's legitimate

It's not like if the dialogue listener is AFK or just wasting time of the others. He just playing the game and enjoying the dialogues at their normal pace.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Elysith

[Toweleeeie]

Games are becoming more and more for casuals(which sucks), so with all the casuals running around in game you dont know who to trust. PUGing sucks with so many casuals playing. Ninja looting, not knowing how to play ones class, general stupidity, watching someone cc a mob then attacking that same mob.

 

Just the other day some guildied and I PUGed a tank we get Malgus on FE HM. He says he knows the fight, but he really didnt. It took 3 deaths with explaining inbetween before he understood what "bring him to the edge at 10% so we can knock him off the ledge". I had never died on Malgus before.

 

I was on my alt healer, which I respeced right before doing FE to dps so my guildie could heal on her alt.

 

Some people are just terribad and I would rather solo on an alt then PUG end game content.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Toweleeeie

[MMornard]

3-A Single Player Online Game… designed as a single player game, but with commitment to sequels, expansions, etc… so that you’d get my Baldur’s Gate 1-20…

 

If you add "that you could play with another person or two" I'd buy it. I wanted KOTOR3 that my wife and I could play together. This is as close as it gets.

[MMornard]

Argh pugs. Useless players; people who roll "need" on everything including the one item that drops for your healer char somehow keeping the team alive with this crappy set of players...

 

Yeah. I was playing WoW with a 12 level dwarf and some 25th level guy offered to group with me. Okay... then he rolled "need" on everything. When I asked why I got "i sell on ah lol".

 

When I said I could actually USE some of the stuff he got, he offered to sell it to me.

 

It was way below his level and he wasn't even a priest.

[MMornard]

But that just comes back to asking your demographic to settle for what they themselves can achieve given their own effort, in this case asking them to settle for not seeing raid content first-hand while it's still relevant.

 

Horse crap. Nobody in this thread said anything about that except you.

[Kfab]

i think it is more likely because after years of horrible pugs people would rather just play alone then have to deal with people..

 

nothing like trying to get a group together then after a half hour the tank or healer goes afk for awhile causing the rest of the group to disband rather then waiting.

 

or after taking forever you get the group going and the healer things he is the tank and runs face first into the mobs

 

and my personal favorite that i see on this game finding a bounty hunter that is running around in willpower/endurance light Armor cause he wants to wear a robe instead of armor.

 

You made my day! Soooo true!

[Elysith]

Ninja looting, or lame comportment has nothing to do with a player being "casual" or not.

 

It's just related to someone being a scum bag or not, independently of how efficient he is at handling game combats.

 

I rather experience wipes in a row with cool players that honestly attempts their best at teamplay, paying attention to the combat, even if we fail, and most probably are laughing mocking ourself about it, than being with a group of "good players" that manage to reach the goal with efficiency, but that are rude and selfish.

 

Now of course if you can get in a group of both "good" and sympathetic players, that's of course better

 

I just don't agree that grouping is getting bad reputation because of casual players. I think it's simply because there is more players with simply bad social and team behavior independently of how good or bad they fight.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Elysith