Mara/Pally Bubble needs to be looked at(Undying Rage)

[kiroshei]

Yeah and when they combine that 5 seconds with a medpack, healer & then disappear for more heals......lol. Its almost impossible to capture a node with that type of thing going on. Then less then 2 minutes later they get to do it all over again. Thats just a defensive strat use of the ability. Throw in the offensive attack use of the ability and you got other problems.

[Xerain]

Yeah and when they combine that 5 seconds with a medpack, healer & then disappear for more heals......lol. Its almost impossible to capture a node with that type of thing going on. Then less then 2 minutes later they get to do it all over again. Thats just a defensive strat use of the ability. Throw in the offensive attack use of the ability and you got other problems.

 

Why are you trying to kill a marauder first and not the healer healing him?

[qwertypoi]

They can remove undying rage when other classed have thier AOE cc and knockbacks removed.

 

I wanna ***** too, Why can't i knock people off bridges and kill and entire push with one button

[biowareftw]

They can remove undying rage when other classed have thier AOE cc and knockbacks removed.

 

I wanna ***** too, Why can't i knock people off bridges and kill and entire push with one button

 

Seriously lol. Want to know why these idiots never complain about SiN/Shadows/Sage/Sorc?

 

Cus they play them. They are "perfectly balanced" and everyone else is op. Any class that can beat them 1 on 1 needs "nerfed immediately".

 

In reality they are playing a faceroll dumbed down rogue class, and a dumbed down shadow priest from vanilla WoW when we didn't even have gaming mice, and they don't even have to freakin shift in and out of shadow form.. They have tons of tools but they don't kite or taunt or heal themselves. They just nerd rage anytime they die.

 

LOL at SiN's/shadow stealthing up to a group of people and throwing them off the bridge in voidstar.

 

Kill 2 or 3 people with one button? 48-50 k dmg in one keypress?

 

PERFECTLY FINE. Instead they cry about powertechs/Vanguard/marauder/sent all day long because some people actually wanted to play classes where they press more then a couple buttons while dpsing...

 

Want to know why your average marauder/sentinel kicks your butt? Because we were BORED playing the stupid classes you think should one shot the entire warzone. We can dominate on your stupid classes with ease.

 

Want to know why these people are so MAD and why they want us nerfed? Because they are too bad to play one, and prob get rocked on their sent/marauder alt. They even come in here with "sent/marauders are bad at low levels". No. No they aren't. You just suck. All classes can do 200-300 k dmg past level 20ish. If you can't? You should be healing or tanking. You weren't cut out for dps and be happy that bioware threw you a bone and made classes designed for little kids to excel on.

 

The BAD players get weeded out of the marauder/sentinel class pre 40. They can't take how bad they suck. The only people left are your better then average player. So are we going to base nerfs on how good the playerbase is for one class now?

 

The ONLY challenging spec in this game is sentinel/marauder. Everything else is boring as hell. HORRIBLE game design on most classes. The only ranged I could stand playing for more then 5 minutes at a time is slinger/sniper. Of course "they suck" even though they are a FANTASTIC class if you aren't a herp derp.

Edited March 13, 2012 by biowareftw

[doromleynek]

jugernauts get a force push, we get undying rage, seems perfectly fair

[biowareftw]

jugernauts get a force push, we get undying rage, seems perfectly fair

 

Not to mention one thing the idiots in this thread are missing, especially the sorc/sages who have TWO FREAKIN VIABLE PVP SPECS (to be honest it is three because pure balance/madness isn't bad at all). Best heals and arguably the best warzone dps as hybrid spec.

 

What do marauders/sents have? Annihilation/Watchman. That is it. Pure dps spec with one viable dps tree in pvp (LOL). Nerfs to survival would cripple two trees that already suck.

 

Combat/carnage is "ok" if you are fighting undergeared morons on a rp/pve server. Focus/rage is just flat out horrible against any geared players. Go ahead and link screenshots of those specs with the other team doing ZERO taunts (which are off the global cooldown). The servers you play on are horrible. RARELY is 500 k even broken on The Fatman server and it requires complete derps to do it and it is usually done by a PT/Vanguard (the other class you want nerfed) or a hybrid sorc/sage.

 

Annihilation/watchman isn't even close to being the best burst in this game. You have setup before you can even do burst dmg (need to stack form up to 5). That is the whole reason they have the survival talents they have. If they didn't? They would suck. You have to build up stacks then apply 3 dots, another dot and then pool rage for burst.

 

Want to buff combat/carnage? Get ready for a whole new different kind of QQ. You would have the burst that scoundrels/ops had pre nerf.

 

What does it take 45 seconds to kill a BAD tank that is geared? A minute to kill a GOOD sage/sorc that knows what kiting is? Hell one of the hardest counters in this game is sniper/slinger vs marauder sent. The problem? The people playing them are idiots. They leave cover after knockbacks that root when we invis (like we have dissapeared off the face of the earth) so we can charge them again. They never use their hardest hitting shot for a knockback.

 

Burst with no setupt? PT's/Vanguards.

 

AOE burst with little setup. Guardians/Jugs. Both can aoe taunt off the global cooldown (without costing a resource) and taunt every 15.

 

Dps with the most uptime? Hybrid sage/sorc and it isn't even close.

 

Oh yeah. ALL THREE OF THOSE SPECS CAN SPEC TANK OR HEALS(which is far and away the most important thing in this game). Dual spec is coming, so you can be both? And you are STILL complaining? HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAH.

 

Have fun fighting against tank stacks in rateds with people who can switch back and forth between soloing and facerolling guard/taunt stacks to high rating. Noone is going to stack marauders/sents. Why the hell would they bother? There are what like 3-5 good ones (on both factions) on any given server? And 100 "good" hybrid sorc/sages and tanks that can hit taunt and make pvp slow down to a crawl so herp derps can excel?

 

Of all the broke %$@@ in this game, including aoe roots THROUGH FULL RESOLVE, you want a shield that takes HALF OF SOMEONES HEALTH nerfed? Is highly visible and can be CC'd? Too freakin funny.

Edited March 13, 2012 by biowareftw

[sensiblepoast]

Guys please don't nerf the marauder! It's going to be my next class!

[battlehobo]

Guarded by the Force is 4 seconds. It doesn't make them immune to CC. Deal with it.

[Infinent]

Not to mention one thing the idiots in this thread are missing, especially the sorc/sages who have TWO FREAKIN VIABLE PVP SPECS (to be honest it is three because pure balance/madness isn't bad at all). Best heals and arguably the best warzone dps as hybrid spec.

 

What do marauders/sents have? Annihilation/Watchman. That is it. Pure dps spec with one viable dps tree in pvp (LOL). Nerfs to survival would cripple two trees that already suck.

 

Combat/carnage is "ok" if you are fighting undergeared morons on a rp/pve server. Focus/rage is just flat out horrible against any geared players. Go ahead and link screenshots of those specs with the other team doing ZERO taunts (which are off the global cooldown). The servers you play on are horrible. RARELY is 500 k even broken on The Fatman server and it requires complete derps to do it and it is usually done by a PT/Vanguard (the other class you want nerfed) or a hybrid sorc/sage.

 

Annihilation/watchman isn't even close to being the best burst in this game. You have setup before you can even do burst dmg (need to stack form up to 5). That is the whole reason they have the survival talents they have. If they didn't? They would suck. You have to build up stacks then apply 3 dots, another dot and then pool rage for burst.

 

Want to buff combat/carnage? Get ready for a whole new different kind of QQ. You would have the burst that scoundrels/ops had pre nerf.

 

What does it take 45 seconds to kill a BAD tank that is geared? A minute to kill a GOOD sage/sorc that knows what kiting is? Hell one of the hardest counters in this game is sniper/slinger vs marauder sent. The problem? The people playing them are idiots. They leave cover after knockbacks that root when we invis (like we have dissapeared off the face of the earth) so we can charge them again. They never use their hardest hitting shot for a knockback.

 

Burst with no setupt? PT's/Vanguards.

 

AOE burst with little setup. Guardians/Jugs. Both can aoe taunt off the global cooldown (without costing a resource) and taunt every 15.

 

Dps with the most uptime? Hybrid sage/sorc and it isn't even close.

 

Oh yeah. ALL THREE OF THOSE SPECS CAN SPEC TANK OR HEALS(which is far and away the most important thing in this game). Dual spec is coming, so you can be both? And you are STILL complaining? HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAH.

 

Have fun fighting against tank stacks in rateds with people who can switch back and forth between soloing and facerolling guard/taunt stacks to high rating. Noone is going to stack marauders/sents. Why the hell would they bother? There are what like 3-5 good ones (on both factions) on any given server? And 100 "good" hybrid sorc/sages and tanks that can hit taunt and make pvp slow down to a crawl so herp derps can excel?

 

Of all the broke %$@@ in this game, including aoe roots THROUGH FULL RESOLVE, you want a shield that takes HALF OF SOMEONES HEALTH nerfed? Is highly visible and can be CC'd? Too freakin funny.

 

What he said

[Rotanartlu]

Wish I could flag OP for being a noob. Altho his trolls were a lulz. On a side not I just got 80 kills and 0 deaths as a bm sentinal and was using this ability quite often. The other team however had many maras so how could I possibly do that with their OP ability? I mean mine had to be on CD atleast once that whole fight and mara's bubble is such an offensive juggernaut of an ability that makes mara's one shot you!!!

[longgrassgrows]

with the marauder being an extremely squishy class without their defensive cooldowns, that would destroy them and OP the juggs...no thank you

[Temeluchus]

Like many have said they are buffing this class soon. A buff with this ability untouched or not looked at is going to be crazy. You cant compare it to force shroud because force shroud is used in combination with a stealth ability. Also if you use force shroud you still take full white damage and die alot. Comparing it to the pally bubble is for a reason. I've seen this ability used the same way the pally bubble used to be used by dps trees. If Bioware is going to tweak marauders/sents they need to reconsider this ability. So far i see no legitimate argument stating why giving a 99% healing reduction at the same time would gimp this class. As stated though i have 20 more pages to read later. Dont worry though folks i'm sure if the pvp team takes this seriously they arent going to read my one introduction post and ignore the rest. lol If thats your grief with all this then youre going to have to get over it. Did you see Operative nerf posts rehashing the "no, we're fine. carebears just need to l2p" posts? no....

 

How did you make the leap of logic from "Class changes in 1.2 include new abilities for the Warrior and the Knight" to "ZOMG,they're buffing Maras!!!!"?

 

I think a lot of the people posting here are correct, you either got destroyed by a Marauder and were so upset it caused you to form an idea about nerfing one of the only abilities that keeps people playing Maras instead of Juggs or you enjoy coming to the forums to stir up drama.

 

You seem to be so keyed on having a 99% healing reduction put on UR, tell you what, you agree to put 99% healing reduction on or a temporary healing lockout after using abilities like KBs,Force Speed and the like and get BW to implement it; and I'll get on board your nerf UR train.

 

No matter how much you rant and rail against it, UR does not equal Godmode. It's a small window of increased survivability for a class that is incapable of healing itself without medpacs or being specced into Anni. If you can't stun/CC/root/kite when you see the UR animation, I'd say the problem isn't the ability being OP and is more of a case of PEBKAC.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Temeluchus

[EternalFinality]

Guarded by the Force is 4 seconds. It doesn't make them immune to CC. Deal with it.

 

It's 5 seconds....

 

How did you make the leap of logic from "Class changes in 1.2 include new abilities for the Warrior and the Knight" to "ZOMG,they're buffing Maras!!!!"?

 

Unless the ability is worthless (like another PvE only crap ability) then it's a buff. How could you argue otherwise?

 

You seem to be so keyed on having a 99% healing reduction put on UR, tell you what, you agree to put 99% healing reduction on or a temporary healing lockout after using abilities like KBs,Force Speed and the like and get BW to implement it; and I'll get on board your nerf UR train.

 

Or 99% healing reduction while bubble is active. That would be a great change!

Edited March 13, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Xinika]

 

Or 99% healing reduction while bubble is active. That would be a great change!

 

Seems fair to me.

[GrandMike]

Guys please don't nerf the marauder! It's going to be my next class!

 

Mantra of the FOTM!

 

dont nerf me BRO!

 

Sorry, have to.

Edited March 13, 2012 by GrandMike

[Rheeling]

I'll state again that I would lovingly trade Undying Rage for Force Push. But here's something else to consider for people who thinks UR is ridiculous.

 

Given the fact that it lasts 5 seconds, consider adding global cooldowns to the mix. What are we REALLY gaining from using this ability?

 

Another 2-3 ability uses throughout the entire duration, assuming we don't get stunned, choked, slowed, or kited.

EDIT: Pretty much the equivalent of you stunning us and using your instant abilities while you gain range on us again. But hey, who keeps track of silly things like that. Keep in mind we can't stun you and continue doing damage.

 

And a 5 second window to pray for someone to crit a heal or two on us. This is really all I every use this ability for, combined with Force Camo.

 

If you're getting rolled by a Marauder in 1v1 situations who pops all his CD's just to kill you, take solace in this: He's most likely not benefiting his team whatsoever, and he's going to get blown up next time he spawns, so he basically has to avoid combat until Cloak of Pain, Force Camo, and Undying Rage come back off cooldown.

 

A responsible Marauder will be doing one of 3 things:

Pressuring your healers

Working down the tanks guarding your healers

Or peeling your dps off our own healers

 

Those are the Marauders you should be worried about, because our healers tend to notice us then. THAT'S when we become super-mega dangerous. Granted, any pure-dps class receiving pocket heals will be super-mega dangerous, so meh. We just have nice CD's we don't have to use in that situation, except for the lulz.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Rheeling

[Temeluchus]

It's 5 seconds....

 

 

 

Unless the ability is worthless (like another PvE only crap ability) then it's a buff. How could you argue otherwise? Easy,since we don't know if it is or isn't a worthless PVE only ability I don't call it a buff yet, I call it simply unknown. Also, last time they mentioned fixes and new abilities for "the Warriors and Knights"(in those exact general terms) they turned out to be for the Jugg/Guardians only.

 

Or 99% healing reduction while bubble is active. That would be a great change!

I'll take 99% healing reduction on UR for that. Course,we'd all probably drown in the sorc/sage tears.

 

There we go.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Temeluchus

[BJSilec]

I don't see anything wrong with that bubble. It's 5 seconds ffs. So what if after that he vanishes and runs away. He runs away and tries to heal because he has some sense of survivability. You're obviously nerd raging because he gets away when he can and you can't catch him. Did you expect him to linger around with below 100hp so you can kill him? No. Every other class will do the same when they're about to die, run. Force sprinting away, or going stealth to dip out when **** hits the fan. You're talking about a skill that last FIVE seconds and saying oh he gets MAD kills within that time. Dude it's five seconds. The only difference is you're hitting him for way less, it's not like his damage is getting buffed at that exact same moment. Sure when it's popped he can solo 1 MAYBE 2 people and he has people behind him healing or taunting but why talk about that being bad when this game is focused on team play? Where are your healers or tanks with taunts and what are they doing to help you? Not much from what it seems. A Mara/Sent fighting lets say you, a healer, and a tank. The mara/sent will go for the healer try to take him out but the tank taunts, and you start dpsing and the healer does his job. The shield is 5 seconds and pretty much another chance for the mara/sent depending on how he uses it. Fight a mara/sent when his defensive cooldowns are unavailable and then come back and talk to us because they're squishy af. I could keep going on about situations and all that but what i'm really trying to say is don't nerd rage and come on the forums to WHINE LIKE A LITTLE GIRL! Damn...

[GrandMike]

I don't see anything wrong with that bubble. It's 5 seconds ffs. So what if after that he vanishes and runs away. He runs away and tries to heal because he has some sense of survivability. You're obviously nerd raging because he gets away when he can and you can't catch him. Did you expect him to linger around with below 100hp so you can kill him? No. Every other class will do the same when they're about to die, run. Force sprinting away, or going stealth to dip out when **** hits the fan. You're talking about a skill that last FIVE seconds and saying oh he gets MAD kills within that time. Dude it's five seconds. The only difference is you're hitting him for way less, it's not like his damage is getting buffed at that exact same moment. Sure when it's popped he can solo 1 MAYBE 2 people and he has people behind him healing or taunting but why talk about that being bad when this game is focused on team play? Where are your healers or tanks with taunts and what are they doing to help you? Not much from what it seems. A Mara/Sent fighting lets say you, a healer, and a tank. The mara/sent will go for the healer try to take him out but the tank taunts, and you start dpsing and the healer does his job. The shield is 5 seconds and pretty much another chance for the mara/sent depending on how he uses it. Fight a mara/sent when his defensive cooldowns are unavailable and then come back and talk to us because they're squishy af. I could keep going on about situations and all that but what i'm really trying to say is don't nerd rage and come on the forums to WHINE LIKE A LITTLE GIRL! Damn...

 

If its just poor skill that lasts only 5s and dont really have any effect...you wont miss it much, will you?

Edited March 13, 2012 by GrandMike

[RoyFokker]

If its just poor skill that lasts only 5s and dont really have any effect...you wont miss it much, will you?

 

Or you could stop crying over the skill that is fair given the class has one cc and has to stay within 10 meters to do any damage.

[Chaosmagistrate]

If its just poor skill that lasts only 5s and dont really have any effect...you wont miss it much, will you?

 

Sure, if Sorcs give up their knockback, Commandos give up their knockback, PTs give up their AoE Stun, Scoundrels give up their Dirty Kick, Snipers give up their Knockback, Shadows give up their stun, and Guardians give up their Force Push.

 

Or give us a way to increase uptime, through a hard stun, or an AoE stun, or a knockback to keep people off us. or even buff our DPS(OH NOES)

 

UR is basically our last ditch effort to squeeze out a little more DPS, because we are so squishy and are easily neutralized by CCs.

 

Personally I'd trade UR for another 4s on PS, and another 10% speed bonus in Ataru, and some easier Focus Gen in that bloody tree.

[kiroshei]

Alright. I've managed to read all the pages. I'll say again that I have yet to see any legitimate debate for giving 99% healing reduction on top of the 99% damage reduction. If this ability is supposed to be a last effort ability with a penalty then make the penalty an actual penalty. As it is right now in organized pvp there is no penalty at all. The only thing all the mara/sents have managed to sway me on is the damage reduction. I'm not going to re-edit the post though since its up to pvp team to decide if its needed or not.

 

To clarify. No I am not a tank assassin. I'm deception. I refuse to respec tank for easymode pvp. I see no flavor in it. I refused to go prot pally in arena too when it was easy mode to get free rating. I was one of the "less than 5% of ret paladins in the world" to reach above a 2200 arena rating. It wasn't easy. That tree got jerked so hard it was near impossible. But through hard work and patience we managed. So don't assume that i'm "that" guy. I do not agree with the current state of tanksins at all. But this thread is not tanksins. Its mara/sent. We arent even going to discuss how my mirror class(shadow) does more damage in shorter amounts of time. Thats also for another thread.

 

As for the numerous "why arent you on the healer instead of the mara" posts. I could give you a nice scenario that happens quite often to rebuttal these claims. For a TLDR version lets just say that in the majority of situations by the time you actually switch and kill that healer the mara/sent's godmode button is off cooldown again because the cooldown is so short. Healer comes back out the gate as mara/sent survives again. Rinse/repeat....See where this is going? Before you even bother to respond with your own scenarios just remember I can definitely give you one that you can't argue. Just like youre trying to give me one that I can't argue. So whats the point.

 

So tell me how giving the ability an additional healing reduction is going to kill your class and not make rated warzones more balanced? Convince me without qqing about other classes OP abilities and discussions that don't have anything to do with this one. Please. 17000 views and i've yet to see ONE. All I see is a mara/sent going YA YA WELL YOURE BAD followed by high fives from other mara/sents. Thats not a good rebuttal by any means no matter how big of a wall of text you make it.

Edited March 13, 2012 by kiroshei

[Terrorshard]

Make it like the warhammer ability. 5 seconds of invulnerability then u die. Just enough time to finish the person off.

[Raansu]

I'll state again that I would lovingly trade Undying Rage for Force Push. But here's something else to consider for people who thinks UR is ridiculous.

 

Give me force push and force pull and they can have my guarded by the force ability. Until then leave it alone, there's nothing wrong with it.

[Nnekk]

No one is intentionally ignoring anything. It's just many see it as ignorant. If you're trying to 1vs1 someone and the person you are fighting has a healer on him, I don't care what kind of defensive abilities he has or doesn't have, you are most likely going to lose that fight. I've stepped in the middle of fights on my healer alt and saved people who were at 10% health just by bubbling them then healing them before the bubble pops.

 

The context is skewed and pointless. You CANNOT base abilities on the fact that there "MIGHT" be a healer nearby. That is just ignorant. Sentinels are extremely squishy, we have no knockbacks 1 aoe stun that breaks on damage and one stun that requires to be channeled. Our only job is to dps and we are melee in a world full of roots/stuns/knockbacks. Without the defensive cooldowns (ESPECIALLY Guarded By the Force) we simply become a ping pong ball on the field who will just die instantly.

 

People who think an ability that gives us 99% damage reduction for 5 seconds on a melee class is OP are just insane, or just bad and going in pvp solo.

 

Agreed!