1.2's splitting PvP / PvE gear will irreversibly DAMAGE the game.

[Spyde]

I want a gear set for each thing.

 

 

I like having different Goals.

 

Not 1 set of armor and done.

 

I like having 2-3 sets.

[Dafroog]

No its not, same i can make argument that PvP is about gear progression only, and removing gear progression will kill PvP. Baseless arguments.

 

Simply switch "harder PvE content" with "harder PvP content (in case of PvP other players are content)".

 

Bad argument you have there.

 

You cant make that argument because pvp isnt balanced or tuned or gated by stats, pve content is gated and tuned through stats, gear upgrades are what prevent pve from being consumed at too fast a rate which is why its called gear progression.

 

PvP isnt in anyway gated by gear stats, PvP gear exist for one reason only and thats to prevent pve players that require upgrades for progression from facerolling pvpers due to an unfair gear advantage

Edited March 12, 2012 by Dafroog

[-Alma-]

I dunno why expertise stat even exists. Its not as if people cant pvp without it. "omg, my brain cant function and I cant mash my keyboard cus my character dont have expertise".

[Pcolapat]

I completely disagree with the OP. Basically what is being asked for here is to have one set of gear that can do both PVE endgame and competitive PVP. These are and should be two separate challenges and require effort and time in each endeavor to obtain the gear. It is possible to do this. I have nearly a full set of rakata and a full set of battlemaster gear. I put in the required time to get both sets. This argument is just another typical cry from a casual gamer that wants to dumb down the game. if anything the game needs to be a little more difficult. Some will choose to do one over the other, but that is not ruining the game, that is thier choice. Some will put in the time and accomplish both. Some enjoy the challenge of obtaining two separate sets. Edited March 12, 2012 by Pcolapat

[VoidJustice]

/signed

 

Mixing and matching PVP and PVE gear is more fun, has more options and lets

you be more creative.

 

Being able to participate in both PVP and PVE is also more fun, hands down.

 

IMHO expertise/resilance were always horrible money grubbing plays,

sold to the masses who bought it like they buy every other cheap bad

idea their sold.

[GrandMike]

You cant make that argument because pvp isnt balanced or tuned or gated by stats, pve content is gated and tuned through stats, gear upgrades are what prevent pve from being consumed at too fast a rate which is why its called gear progression.

 

They made 1-49 braket JUST for that reason.

 

And you can gate any content any way you like.

 

As a fresh 50 high rated PvP is gated to you by rating for which you will need better gear to achieve...

 

Yes, its the same.

 

And no, time locks are method for "not consuming content too fast".

 

 

PvP isnt in anyway gated by gear stats, PvP gear exist for one reason only and thats to prevent pve players that require upgrades for progression from facerolling pvpers due to anunfair gear advantage

 

It has worked perfectly as "mid tier" set for PvE.

 

If its like you say you DONT need ANY PvP gear, just normalize stats in WZs, everyone has same stats.

 

No, its not there just for even more superficial reason than superficial reason it is in.

 

/signed

 

Mixing and matching PVP and PVE gear is more fun, has more options and lets

you be more creative.

 

Being able to participate in both PVP and PVE is also more fun, hands down.

 

IMHO expertise/resilance were always horrible money grubbing plays,

sold to the masses who bought it like they buy every other cheap bad

idea their sold.

 

People start watching GW2 more closely, no gear BS, everyone has same gear wit hdifferent looks, much better for community.

Edited March 12, 2012 by GrandMike

[Dafroog]

I dunno why expertise stat even exists. Its not as if people cant pvp without it. "omg, my brain cant function and I cant mash my keyboard cus my character dont have expertise".

 

Because without a pvp stat you would be forced to raid in order to be the best at pvp, which wouldnt be good for those that like to only pvp, if you made it so all gear was the same and you could get the high end pve gear from pvp you would negate the gating of pve content and make it so that in order to progress fast pve'er would be forced to pvp, which would be bad for that only like pve

[Sporticus]

some ppl do both

 

i have friends that do pve, and sometimes they message me for their operation (i don't roll on gears since im full BM)

 

likewise im sure a lot of pvers occasionally queue WZ out of boredom or to play with friends

 

If they do both, then the price of admission is gearing for both. What is killing this game, and most other MMO's is the effed up sense of entitlement that gamers have. Every game that comes out gets progressively easier over time because your average online gamer is only up for challenging content if it's not very challenging.

 

If you want a trophy just for showing up, go back to T-ball.

[DinesenDK]

I completely disagree with the OP. Basically what is being asked for here is to have one set of gear that can do both PVE endgame and competitive PVP. These are and should be two separate challenges and require effort and time in each endeavor to obtain the gear. It is possible to do this. I have nearly a full set of rakata and a full set of battlemaster gear. I put in the required time to get both sets. This argument is just another typical cry from a casual gamer that wants to dumb down the game. if anything the game needs to be a little more difficult. Some will choose to do one over the other, but that is not ruining the game, that is thier choice. Some will put in the time and accomplish both. Some enjoy the challenge of obtaining two separate sets.

This.

 

Besides, if you like pvp the most it will always have your first priority. And since you will for sure spent most of your time there I can't see why you should be rewarded with a PVE set as well, and virsa versa.

 

Those who like both equal will pick up the gauntlet and enjoy the journey and be rewarded with both sets.

 

I will never understand why these games should be easymode. It is never about the gear, it is about the journey - Atleast for me.

[me_unknown]

I dunno why expertise stat even exists. Its not as if people cant pvp without it. "omg, my brain cant function and I cant mash my keyboard cus my character dont have expertise".

 

for the 1000000000 time: it is to prevent the need of endless pve gridning for gear to be competitive in pvp.

[Spyde]

They made 1-49 braket JUST for that reason.

 

And you can gate any content any way you like.

 

As a fresh 50 high rated PvP is gated to you by rating for which you will need better gear to achieve...

 

Yes, its the same.

 

And no, time locks are method for "not consuming content too fast".

 

 

 

 

It has worked perfectly as "mid tier" set for PvE.

 

If its like you say you DONT need ANY PvP gear, just normalize stats in WZs, everyone has same stats.

 

No, its not there just for even more superficial reason than superficial reason it is in.

 

 

 

People start watching GW2 more closely, no gear BS, everyone has same gear wit hdifferent looks, much better for community.

 

 

 

Yep, you dont even have to level in GW2

 

Log in, que for pvp

 

Auto have gear and max level + Skills.

 

PvP, Get bored.

 

Log off.

 

Week of content at most.

[me_unknown]

They made 1-49 braket JUST for that reason.

 

And you can gate any content any way you like.

what has this to do with pvp on level 50 and preventing gear grinding?

As a fresh 50 high rated PvP is gated to you by rating for which you will need better gear to achieve...

Yes, its the same.

but it is limited. you just have to do this once and it is done pretty fast.

it is not the same, not even close to pve progression where it is infinite and gets extended with every new pve content.

 

 

If its like you say you DONT need ANY PvP gear, just normalize stats in WZs, everyone has same stats.

this actually would be a way.

 

this would actually work if there wouldn't be the option of allowing players to use different gears for different stats priority. but i am quite sure it could be fixed some way or the other.

 

i would be fine with such a normalizing buff. but beside removing the small gearing up phase of fresh 50s it wouldn't do anything better than what expertise is intended for.

[Dafroog]

They made 1-49 braket JUST for that reason.

 

And you can gate any content any way you like.

 

As a fresh 50 high rated PvP is gated to you by rating for which you will need better gear to achieve...

 

Yes, its the same.

 

And no, time ocks are method for "not consuming content too fast".

 

If time locks were the only thing preventing you from completing an instance then all instances would be completed week one, time locks prevent you from never hgaving to start from the begining, its the stat progression that prevents you from clearing content week one

 

And pvp is still not gated by stats at all, the stats are only there to prevent pve'ers from having an unfair advantage at 50, at 1-49 it doesnt matter as much because everyone has access to the same level of items, post 50 raiders get better items because thats the way thier content is gated

 

It has worked perfectly as "mid tier" set for PvE.

 

If its like you say you DONT need ANY PvP gear, just normalize stats in WZs, everyone has same stats.

 

No, its not there for even more superficial reason than superficial reason it is in.

 

I dont disagree with them normalising stats in instanced pvp, the only reason i can see behind them not is because it wouldnt solve raiders having an unfair advantage in world pvp.

 

The way gw2 is doing it is by having instanced pvp completely seperated from you main toon, and the reason pvp gear is not needed for wvwvw is because there isnt going to be a pve "end game" to create stat inflation, as swtor does have end game progression, there has to be something to prevent either playstyle getting an unfair advantage over the other unless they completely remove every form of opvp

[tboe]

I agree with Mirialol. and being lazy has nothing to do with. I have a job, some of us have kids and have other things to do in life then to spend all day playing a video game. like or not it can not always be about you players who have no jobs or all the time in the world. the last thing i should have to do when i pay $15 dollers a month to play a game is to pick what half of the game i would like to play pvp or pve. pvp and pve gear should work together just with a diffrent look for. for example if i take my T3 pvp gear to a ops it should be able to fit right in.

[poosticks]

this is why they shouldn't even have expertise

 

 

it 'prohibits' people from enjoying both parts of the game. what kind of game company would do taht?

 

This is probably a bit off topic but this is neither the sole or primary reason that expertise should be removed. A stat that further adds to the gear divide between players is a terrible idea, especially in the way this is implemented - increase to damage dealt, reduction on damage received. It's completely nullified for players with an equal level of expertise (aside from the boost to healing) and creates world boss of an opponent for a player without any.

[me_unknown]

I agree with Mirialol. and being lazy has nothing to do with. I have a job, some of us have kids and have other things to do in life then to spend all day playing a video game. like or not it can not always be about you players who have no jobs or all the time in the world. the last thing i should have to do when i pay $15 dollers a month to play a game is to pick what half of the game i would like to play pvp or pve. pvp and pve gear should work together just with a diffrent look for. for example if i take my T3 pvp gear to a ops it should be able to fit right in.

 

actually this does not make any sense. i thought the progression through pve content is the fun of doing pve.

 

so why do you see it as a burden to walk through flashpoints first, then operations etc. to gear up for pve if you are interested in pve?

 

i mean, doing pvp and then jumping with that gear immediatly into the current pve endgame would only skip you alot of pve fun. sounds kinda stupid to me.

[Dafroog]

This is probably a bit off topic but this is neither the sole or primary reason that expertise should be removed. A stat that further adds to the gear divide between players is a terrible idea, especially in the way this is implemented - increase to damage dealt, reduction on damage received. It's completely nullified for players with an equal level of expertise (aside from the boost to healing) and creates world boss of an opponent for a player without any.

 

But they are making pvp gear much easier to get by removing any requirements on it, all you need is the currency (rated comm's), so it makes pvping as a fresh 50 much easier while still keeping raiders from having a clear stat advantage in pvp

[Lerdoc]

I completely disagree with the OP. Basically what is being asked for here is to have one set of gear that can do both PVE endgame and competitive PVP. These are and should be two separate challenges and require effort and time in each endeavor to obtain the gear. It is possible to do this. I have nearly a full set of rakata and a full set of battlemaster gear. I put in the required time to get both sets. This argument is just another typical cry from a casual gamer that wants to dumb down the game. if anything the game needs to be a little more difficult. Some will choose to do one over the other, but that is not ruining the game, that is thier choice. Some will put in the time and accomplish both. Some enjoy the challenge of obtaining two separate sets.

 

And yet it worked completely great in WHO where PvE and PvP gear of equal tier was just fir different spec of your class(IE PvP for healer was DPS, PVE one was healing, tier higher it was reversed).

Edited March 12, 2012 by Lerdoc

[Gformutorila]

I like to PvP a little sometimes. My main is lvl48 and has rank 31. So you can tell I'm no hardcore PvP but I do play it once in a while. Now if I will get killed in 2 seconds each time I do a warzone just because I do not have the latest and best PvP gear I will stop doing PvP.

 

I used to do arena season 1 and 2 also I liked battlegrounds. But then resiliance got more and more important as a result I stopped arena (I think the arena idea is bad) and only played battlegrounds once in a while.

 

Now if BW wants to keep casual players interested PvP they will make sure that PvP is easy to obtain OR you can PvP with PvE gear.

[Dafroog]

And yet it worked completely great in WHO where PvE and PvE gear of equal tier was just fir different spec of your class(IE PvP for healer was DPS, PVE one was healing, tier higher it was reversed).

 

The flaw in that system is that if i dont like to pvp but like to play a healer im screwed for half the tiers of content

[Lerdoc]

Not really, stat difference between T2 and T3 was minor, you could help itemisation with talismans(aguments here) and group buffs, so you could have T2 set and still be competitive with people with T3-T4 sets.

[yanyost]

Might be the wrong thread to reply to, but I've always disliked the idea of separating mmo games into 2 different communities; pvp/pve. I understand the need for expertise and what not, but I've never bought the argument that pve raiders without much pvp experience would come into a warzone or open world pvp and dominate just because of their gear, they'd sill have to know what they are doing. I would mutch rather prefer a game that was designed to have a seamless existence between the pvp/pve communities.

[KhealThar]

this is why they shouldn't even have expertise

 

 

it 'prohibits' people from enjoying both parts of the game. what kind of game company would do taht?

 

You want to know why Resilience was invented? Because PVE players thought it was mandatory to play PVP to be competitive in pve, and Blizzard didn't want their game to be like that. They wanted you to be able to do whatever you wanted and be just as competitive. Good game design.

 

If you talk to any Arena junkies poster (I can actually post in the Junkies section on that website) they will tell you, PVE gear ruins pvp balance.

 

ANYONE on that website will agree with you that pvp and pve needs to be separate because pve balance ruins pvp balance and vice versa.

 

It's not really rocket science what Bioware is trying to do here, they're trying to offer a better experience for the players. If they made pvp gear competitive in pve then everyone would be forced to pvp for gear as a fresh 50 to be competitive to do pve, which is all they were interested in in the first place.

 

 

Basically, Bioware wants you to play the game how you want to play it. if you want to strictly pvp, you're going to be at a disadvantage because you choose to do so and vice versa.

 

tl;dr this thread is a joke.

 

 

Might be the wrong thread to reply to, but I've always disliked the idea of separating mmo games into 2 different communities; pvp/pve. I understand the need for expertise and what not, but I've never bought the argument that pve raiders without much pvp experience would come into a warzone or open world pvp and dominate just because of their gear, they'd sill have to know what they are doing. I would mutch rather prefer a game that was designed to have a seamless existence between the pvp/pve communities.

 

The raid gear in vanilla was far, far better than the gear available to pvpers, so basically think of it like someone in quest gear fighting a battlemaster. The battlemaster can be terrible and still win solely based on taking less damage and putting out almost 20% more.

Edited March 12, 2012 by KhealThar

[me_unknown]

Might be the wrong thread to reply to, but I've always disliked the idea of separating mmo games into 2 different communities; pvp/pve. I understand the need for expertise and what not, but I've never bought the argument that pve raiders without much pvp experience would come into a warzone or open world pvp and dominate just because of their gear, they'd sill have to know what they are doing. I would mutch rather prefer a game that was designed to have a seamless existence between the pvp/pve communities.

 

i understand you. but this actually is not the reality.

many people would go raidning to have it easier in pvp with that gear.

 

and consider raiders that start imprving their skills. at some point they would be overpowred due to gear.

[GrandMike]

Now if BW wants to keep casual players interested PvP they will make sure that PvP is easy to obtain OR you can PvP with PvE gear.

 

It works both ways. Just switch places of "PvE" and "PvP".

 

Thats why what they have NOW works.

Edited March 12, 2012 by GrandMike