1.2 = best pvp gear for free, and no reason to play rated. people are quitting

[mjvjohnson]

I loved PVPing up until level 50. As soon as I hit 50 and entered a battle I got curbstomped. It was not fun and I refused to go back. If new 50s dont want to pvp because of the massive disadvantage, you will see a serious decline in PVPers. Expertise is a WoW system that I hated, and was enraged that SW adopted. Rather than expertise gear for your efforts, content rewards would be better. Titles, Color Crystals, cool looking gear sets, and so on. On my server the win/lose ratio is 15/1. You end up seeing the same people over and over as the new 50s wont even go near it. It wasnt, and isnt fun. This system needs a massive overhaul. Or it will be like WoW use to be. Those geared out, just taking great pleasure in smashing the newbies. It may be fun for you, but it isnt for us. If you love your game, you would want a balanced system. That way more people will want to PVP. Just my thoughts.

[kirorx]

I just stating working on a new 50 and getting him geared.

 

First: I had him at about 50 Valor when he reached 50 so I could get champion gear right out the door.

 

I was able to buy up some bags and then i completed some dailies and weeklies (this over 3 days) .

 

Now i have a toon that is full pvp gears. I got most centaurian and 3 pieces of champion.

 

I went form unviable to very vaible in 3 days.

 

Its really not that bad. The Champion is pretty darn good and though its no BM set it seems to get the job done.

 

Now that i can buy BM tokens and most gear is what 1 or 2 tokens, it does not seem like its all that hard. 1000:1000 does not take all that long. You can easily get between 70 and 100 tokens in a warzone.

 

I dont know why they bother changing this system, they just added the purchase tokens part.

 

The only thing they should have added IMO, would be to be able to buy BM tokens and such prior to gaining level 50. Just buy at valor rank. (cant waear them untill 50 of course)

 

This way, people that pvp to level can also gain these tokens well before they hit 50, so they dont feel undergeared for pvp at high level. They put in the effort and time.

Edited March 15, 2012 by kirorx

[MartyrLXXVII]

Sure, when we played Unreal or anything around that time that didn't have progression or dynamic content other than maps. Map packs in Unreal was great - didn't care about character progression because you played for the new and exciting maps. Although they did have server and character stat portals.

 

Sure, in games like DaOC whereas you gained abilities as you climbed the realm ranks.

 

Sure in games like DaOC whereas you had a weekly leader board of various stats.

 

Sure in other MMO's that had FFA (free for all) rulesets we could pvp and nothing was gained.

 

Swtor doesn't have either of those. Maps are static and PvP means nothing.

 

Do you honestly believe gear appearance will solve the issues people have with PvP? I'll ask again. How many people do you think will play farmville if all they got was a different color chicken or egg?

 

And another +10 stat is Differnt how? Let's not point at a limited poorly developed pvp system and say stat progression will save it more then vanity progression.

 

But -if- can clean it up and get more into it which will be better in the long run, over inflated stats or bragging right?

[Incendergel]

I loved PVPing up until level 50. As soon as I hit 50 and entered a battle I got curbstomped. It was not fun and I refused to go back. If new 50s dont want to pvp because of the massive disadvantage, you will see a serious decline in PVPers. Expertise is a WoW system that I hated, and was enraged that SW adopted. Rather than expertise gear for your efforts, content rewards would be better. Titles, Color Crystals, cool looking gear sets, and so on. On my server the win/lose ratio is 15/1. You end up seeing the same people over and over as the new 50s wont even go near it. It wasnt, and isnt fun. This system needs a massive overhaul. Or it will be like WoW use to be. Those geared out, just taking great pleasure in smashing the newbies. It may be fun for you, but it isnt for us. If you love your game, you would want a balanced system. That way more people will want to PVP. Just my thoughts.

 

This is the problem.

 

"YOU" can get gear once you ding 50. You just choose not to. You want it handed to you. Just like in wow - the only season you couldn't get gear was 1...soon after you could buy the previous seasons with about the same amount of effort here.

 

People are lazy - let us be honest.

 

You can save 1000/1000 valor tokens before you reach 50. That is what, 5 bags? Before you reach 50 you can buy a bag. That brings the total to 6... What exactly is the problem? You don't have every slot decked in purple battlemaster gear? Is that honestly your issue? Because they have been 50 longer than you? Because they may have played more than you? Because they got the lucky bag(s) to drop items?

 

Where does this stop? It is utter madness. You want stuff handed to you but hide behind the stance of utopia and fairness. You don't want to have to save, you don't want to have to budget. You just want to enter a pvp warzone and pretend to have fun. Not having any of your keys binded, not having any clue of who a healer is, who to target, nothing. You just want to be able to go in there and insta-gib people.

 

Yet even if we even the playing field guess what? People who are better will still insta-gib you making you look silly. The only difference now is that the game really has no incentive to PvP.

 

P e o p l e play MMO's to advance their avatar.

[Brittaany_Banks]

Just wanted to inform bioware that tons of the members of several pvp guilds on my server are quitting after the news that rated warzones will be the new valor grind, except any requirements at all. One large pvp guild also disbanded yesterday.

 

Now I wonder, who's idea was it that "rated" pvp, would not mean squat? All they are doing now is seperating normal warzones from rated warzones, even if they will basically be exactly the same, just that rated will give better free gear.

 

I will cancel sub and prolly play my month out like 80% of my pvp guild already have, but pvp just gets boring when there is nothing worth "working" for by playing organized.

 

High warzone rating = no rewards worth mentioning, A LOT more effort.

Low warzone rating = the same rewards as high rating, a lot LESS effort.

 

Endgame pvp gear worth working for = None.

Chance of getting bored from lack of worthwile "goals" pvp wise: High.

 

You failed with Ilum, and now you fail with this. Both had good potential.

 

Clickers and backpeddalers that run around playing rambo in pvp with no tactics in their head should NOT be awarded 100% as much as those who put more effort in it and play organized.

Just like hardmodes gives better rewards than story mode in pve.

 

I think you need to understand that MMOs are not being made with the hardcore gamer in mind anymore. The majority of people joining MMOs today just want to have fun with a moderate challenge not a "OMG I have to super grind for 6 months just to unlock one piece of PvP gear" challenge

[Incendergel]

And another +10 stat is Differnt how? Let's not point at a limited poorly developed pvp system and say stat progression will save it more then vanity progression.

 

But -if- can clean it up and get more into it which will be better in the long run, over inflated stats or bragging right?

 

Ok, fair enough.

 

But would you say people will chose the easier path to something? Isn't that in fact what Bioware stated as to the popularity of PvP? It has a easier investment and quicker return than that of PvE. Which I totally agree the way it is set up now.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Incendergel

[AtomicDP]

lol, see ya, less self-proclaimed pvp gods running around can only be a good thing...can't it?

[hpique]

I agree completley and there is no joy in just pvping to have fun with it outside of the first month of this game with no differnt pvp but three "okay" warzones... it just sucks.

[Shredbull]

People whined and moaned so much SWTOR became a hand helding community completely based on a whiner based community, no offense to the good guys, and now, competition has been eliminated, generalizing the game.

 

SWTOR has done the one thing an MMORPG cannot do.

 

They have eliminated the reason to play for. A place above others. That's what MMORPG's are about. About knowing you're better than someone else, and because of that, you have better gear.

 

Now it's going to be all equal. So sad.

 

Even if war hero gear required rank 70, or 80 even, anyone could get it by casually warzoning for a month or so.

 

I will see if 1.2 brings alot of new features, if not, I'll be playing other games.

[Seriasx]

Good pvp games never had pvp gear in the first place, the change in 1.2 will be the best move for competitive pvp, the only ones who should be upset by this are the no lifers who still cant play but now they might learn how to.

[CyrusConnor]

I dont intend to play rated pvp to see who has the best gear. I intend on seeing who is the best player. In order to truly guage skill the gear must be equal tier. Ultimately that is the idea behind being rated, just to see who is better. No one really cares if you just grind more than everyone else and have better gear for it.

As for players who you say haven't earned the gear in your eyes it is irrelevant. If they really did half *** their way to the gear, then they will suck when they play rated anyways. I don't want a player or team to say "We only lost cause you had better gear." I want them to know we won cause we were more skilled and played smarter than them.

[mordredz]

People whined and moaned so much SWTOR became a hand helding community completely based on a whiner based community, no offense to the good guys, and now, competition has been eliminated, generalizing the game.

 

SWTOR has done the one thing an MMORPG cannot do.

 

They have eliminated the reason to play for. A place above others. That's what MMORPG's are about. About knowing you're better than someone else, and because of that, you have better gear.

 

Now it's going to be all equal. So sad.

 

Even if war hero gear required rank 70, or 80 even, anyone could get it by casually warzoning for a month or so.

 

I will see if 1.2 brings alot of new features, if not, I'll be playing other games.

 

So because ppl have to rely on skill to kill someone with the same gear instead of rolling over them with BM vs Cent its bad?

 

Less ppl like this is always welcomed, later...

[Incendergel]

Good pvp games never had pvp gear in the first place, the change in 1.2 will be the best move for competitive pvp, the only ones who should be upset by this are the no lifers who still cant play but now they might learn how to.

 

Trolling, yeah?

 

Even pre-patch you could do the dailies, weeklies (including going out to Ilum as broke as that was) and still achieve battlemaster without living with your parents. Just took a bit more time than those who had more time. Wow, amazing how that works.

 

As far as your competitive pvp piece. You will soon see just how far that goes when bad people still click instead of using keybinds. People will still laugh at you when you target the tank instead of healer.

 

There still isn't any incentive to PvP. That is what people are complaining about.

[MartyrLXXVII]

Ok, fair enough.

 

But would you say people will chose the easier path to something? Isn't that in fact what Bioware stated as to the popularity of PvP? It has a easier investment and quicker return than that of PvE. Which I totally agree the way it is set up now.

 

I'm all for them putting more work into pvp. I would simply -prefer- it doesn't include a stat laced gear progression. And as you say the easier path is better. Stat progression means they have to put.more time into it making sure its balanced, as opposed to what...?

 

"Trooper armor looks so much more awesome! Nerf trooper awesomeness!"

 

Stat progression in pvp is full of pitfalls and disadvantages to the game. the main people that want it just want easy mode. Why cater to them, they never value quality.

[MPagano]

They have eliminated the reason to play for. A place above others. That's what MMORPG's are about. About knowing you're better than someone else, and because of that, you have better gear.

 

 

Even if war hero gear required rank 70, or 80 even, anyone could get it by casually warzoning for a month or so.

 

 

So people play to gain superiority over other players.

 

They want know they're better than someone else because they have better gear.

 

But then you point out that anyone could get to that point.

 

I'm confused.

 

People need to gain superiority in a way that doesn't involve actually being better? What do you mean by superior?

 

Being better than someone else didn't get you gear with the old system. Having more time to spend in the warzones and Ilum meant you had better gear which made you harder to kill. Is this what you mean by superior?

 

Then you say that anyone could become superior simply by playing long enough. Again, I'm questioning what you mean by superior.

[DrunkWhiteDevil]

lol, see ya, less self-proclaimed pvp gods running around can only be a good thing...can't it?

 

Don't worry, I'll still be here. I might even hit 50 someday!

 

 

 

 

On a serious note, if you agree with the OP and this gear issue actually bothers you then just quit. In order to achieve the highest level of competition all players have to be on an even playing field. This isn't opinion based, it's fact. If you don't like the sound of that, you're probably bad. Go play single player games on the lowest difficulty. <3

 

In case of flamewave: Yes I'm a Sorc talking about even playing fields. I hope I get nerfed, not a single **** will be given.

[Seriasx]

Trolling, yeah?

 

Even pre-patch you could do the dailies, weeklies (including going out to Ilum as broke as that was) and still achieve battlemaster without living with your parents. Just took a bit more time than those who had more time. Wow, amazing how that works.

 

As far as your competitive pvp piece. You will soon see just how far that goes when bad people still click instead of using keybinds. People will still laugh at you when you target the tank instead of healer.

 

There still isn't any incentive to PvP. That is what people are complaining about.

 

The incentive is competitive gameplay which happens to be the same incentive as every good pvp game to ever be launched.

 

If 50% of the current pvp base needs a gear crutch then they can look elsewhere, I'm fine with less people as long as those people actually enjoy the game cause chances are those guys who need the gear would have quit once they got the gear anyways "after stomping badly geared players first of course"

[Incendergel]

The incentive is competitive gameplay which happens to be the same incentive as every good pvp game to ever be launched.

 

If 50% of the current pvp base needs a gear crutch then they can look elsewhere, I'm fine with less people as long as those people actually enjoy the game cause chances are those guys who need the gear would have quit once they got the gear anyways "after stomping badly geared players first of course"

 

Good pvp game, huh? Name(s)?

 

Chess is ranked. Usually number one has more skill and a better brain than that of who is ranked number 2...just saying.

 

Console games - have incentives. PC based FPS games have incentives. There is a reason, a draw, to make them play. Go buy BF3 today and tell me how you do. Are you on equal footing now? Is the playing field better?

 

How about real world. Ok, I have one. Let us talk baseball. Is that fair? Is the playing field equal? Ok - motorsports maybe if you don't like bball? Is everyone racing the same brand, engine? Same owner? How about football, basketball?

 

MMO's again are played because their avatar evolves over time.

[NatoKenichi]

Let them quit. I'd rather those type of people were not in the game to start with. Warzones need to be competative and not all about geeks who play 24/7 and have the best gear.

 

Agreed.

[MartyrLXXVII]

Good pvp game, huh? Name(s)?

 

Chess is ranked. Usually number one has more skill and a better brain than that of who is ranked number 2...just saying.

 

Console games - have incentives. PC based FPS games have incentives. There is a reason, a draw, to make them play. Go buy BF3 today and tell me how you do. Are you on equal footing now? Is the playing field better?

 

How about real world. Ok, I have one. Let us talk baseball. Is that fair? Is the playing field equal? Ok - motorsports maybe if you don't like bball? Is everyone racing the same brand, engine? Same owner? How about football, basketball?

 

MMO's again are played because their avatar evolves over time.

 

Other then the real world examples its all irrelevant, fps' have incentive that don't change how much damage you do in any significant fashion.

 

But as for your real world.examples. gear plays no part in baseball, basketball, or football. It can in hockey (size of goalie pads/stick) but its regulated. Motor sports, they have Differnt cars engines etc, but again they are all regulated, they must fit into a specific window. Then there are those that take steroids and for competitive sports and are disqualified for cheating. So you are sorta destroying your own point.

 

Back to the fps incentive, there is less there then either mmo option, not stats and no customization. But people play them a ton. At least we could have progression and customization without risking balance.

Edited March 15, 2012 by MartyrLXXVII

[MPagano]

Good pvp game, huh? Name(s)?

 

Chess is ranked. Usually number one has more skill and a better brain than that of who is ranked number 2...just saying.

 

Console games - have incentives. PC based FPS games have incentives. There is a reason, a draw, to make them play. Go buy BF3 today and tell me how you do. Are you on equal footing now? Is the playing field better?

 

How about real world. Ok, I have one. Let us talk baseball. Is that fair? Is the playing field equal? Ok - motorsports maybe if you don't like bball? Is everyone racing the same brand, engine? Same owner? How about football, basketball?

 

MMO's again are played because their avatar evolves over time.

 

I might be misunderstanding you. These are all examples of things that don't use artificial performance boosts to emulate an increased proficiency. These all demonstrate a paradigm which could be used in this game for PvP.

 

Like chess, player A will achieve a higher rank than player B if they are truly better. Their incentive to continue is the desire to improve their skill and maintain their status. They are not provided more pieces or more moves on the board. BW is implementing ELO rankings- ELO is used in chess tournaments

 

Have you played Halo? Do you know why people play that game for hours every day for years? Status. Bragging rights. Higher ranks, stats, armor pieces that change your appearance. BW is implementing armor color schemes and titles.

 

If I logged into BF3 for the first time today, I would have the same performance output as far as my character is concerned. Things you earn in these games are alternatives- tactical choices that offer advantages which are distinct but not necessarily better than the other choices.

 

Baseball, basketball, all of these things are fair. Only humans can play, and you are not legally allowed to you performance enhancements such as steroids.

 

I must be misunderstanding you. These all support progression without gear upgrades.

Edited March 15, 2012 by MPagano

[AKfourtyseven]

But as for your real world.examples. gear plays no part in baseball, basketball, or football. It can in hockey (size of goalie pads/stick)

 

If that were the case then all players would play in the same footwear, use the same peripherals ect, but they dont (the fact we have entire industries based on selling these things should make this obvious).

 

Even in a real life sport where everything is meant ot be equal and fair, some margin of variance is allowed. It should be the same in a MMO's PvP, especially considering what we actually have is character vs character, where the avatar you are using is one you have grown over an extended period of time.

 

Its not like other games where you just pick a stock character/class and are ready to go with all the tools required to be competitive.

 

Edit: to clarify- in Football, performance enhancing drugs are not allow, but one play may have crappy boots while the other has a pair of Adidas Predators. The Adidas boots will give a margin of performance boost, even if its only 1%. That is right and proper and can easily be reflected in gear progression here without creating imbalance.

Edited March 15, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[Seriasx]

They could add titles for the people who play alot every day or maybe new mounts, cosmetic stuff, etc..

[MPagano]

If that were the case then all players would play in the same footwear, use the same peripherals ect, but they dont (the fact we have entire industries based on selling these things should make this obvious).

 

Even in a real life sport where everything is meant ot be equal and fair, some margin of variance is allowed. It should be the same in a MMO's PvP, especially considering what we actually have is character vs character, where the avatar you are using is one you have grown over an extended period of time.

 

Its not like other games where you just pick a stock character/class and are ready to go with all the tools required to be competitive.

 

You fail to recognize the fact that all players are capable of choosing whichever item they prefer. If some shoe makes a player run faster, that player doesn't get the shoe by running around the bases mindlessly for hours. They go buy them. Anyone can buy them.

[MartyrLXXVII]

If that were the case then all players would play in the same footwear, use the same peripherals ect, but they dont (the fact we have entire industries based on selling these things should make this obvious).

 

Even in a real life sport where everything is meant ot be equal and fair, some margin of variance is allowed. It should be the same in a MMO's PvP, especially considering what we actually have is character vs character, where the avatar you are using is one you have grown over an extended period of time.

 

Its not like other games where you just pick a stock character/class and are ready to go with all the tools required to be competitive.

 

Edit: to clarify- in Football, performance enhancing drugs are not allow, but one play may have crappy boots while the other has a pair of Adidas Predators. The Adidas boots will give a margin of performance boost, even if its only 1%. That is right and proper and can easily be reflected in gear progression here without creating imbalance.

 

Reread my post because my phone resided to post it half done and I edited it. There was much more to my meaning where that quote ended.

 

But yes in real sports while not everything is exactly identical, impossible in the real world, they are -regulated- so no one has an unfair advantage.