Gear vs Skill. Stop complaining you are WRONG.

[Ainianu]

Or people could do some legwork and have their champ bag and 1k/1k tokens ready by the time they hit 50. I don't really mind if they make cent or champ gear purchasable with creds, people that have no pvp experience leveling up will still be speed bumps, but it doesn't speak well about the general populace that feels they should just have things handed to them.

 

with my Sentinel i leveled mostly PvE, only did PvP a little (was valour rank 25 ish when i got 50) and built up my 1000/1000 and a champion bag already, seemed the obvious thing to do. But not only that... i did the PvE dailies for 2 days in a row to sort out my customisible gear as much as i could also.

 

My first level 50 game... i solo'd a battlemaster titled marauder with 2x black/red lightsabers, was my first fight even in the game on my way to a turret on alderaan... nice introduction and prooving the original poster correct

I had a LOT of problems with sorcs and pretty much all round as a sentinel early on but from moment i got cent gear full... a champion main hand, things was np from there.

 

One thing i will say though, whilst skill is better than gear, when your faced with another good player who DOES outgear you, it is fairly obvious

With my full champ gear now if i see a fresh 50 i can sometimes kill him in 1 master strike, its shocking.

[Alakine]

Or do the PvP daily as you level, save up 1000/1000 and get 6 bags when you ding.

 

If you put in ZERO effort then yes, you will have gear so bad you have issues. What's your point? That you should get gear for nothing? This is an MMO, everything has a progression path and the PvP one is quite easy, but you still have to actually do it.

 

Or they could have gone the guild wars 2 route and used modern design.

1) skill shots, lots of em, make people aim and plan attacks in order to actually do optimal damage

2) no stats in pvp

3) gear is a pure bragging rights only carrot - that while still equally coveted doesn't give you a license to 6 v 1 guys without it by hitting your face on the keyboard

[AGoldCrayon]

And he can snare spam me too...., its either cheap or free for them because they all lay it on thick as hell. The point is the one player can totally negate my ability to contribute to the team while constantly climbing up my *** and hitting me far harder than I can hit him. Being an under-geared squish-class blows ***.

 

Champ is not 'undergeared'. You're simply using it as a mental crutch. Ask a tank to bodyguard you, learn to position yourself better so you can use LoS to prevent another charge. Maybe examine your spec and see if you're lacking there? Replace standard enhancements and mods with others that are better suited to your spec.

 

Go to the sorc boards and ask for help. There are plenty of things you can do, but instead you simply chalk it up to 'gear', throw your hands up in the air and wail. Newsflash, you could be full BM and people would still stomp you, based on what I've read here, by your own account.

[rzrknight]

I for one agree with you, gear is by no means even close to what decide a wz, people focus to much on the fighting and to little on what needs to be done.

 

These are not arenas , these are bgs, Which means very little fighting may actually get you better results.

 

Still i will always favor rewarding the best with the best gear.

 

No point in keep trying improving and winning , when my gear is the same the meat sack with a puddle for a brain sleep and get.

[AGoldCrayon]

Or they could have gone the guild wars 2 route and used modern design.

1) skill shots, lots of em, make people aim and plan attacks in order to actually do optimal damage

2) no stats in pvp

3) gear is a pure bragging rights only carrot - that while still equally coveted doesn't give you a license to 6 v 1 guys without it by hitting your face on the keyboard

 

I hear guild wars is still running. If everyone bemoans how bad SW pvp is and how much better GW is, why are you here?

[Alakine]

with my Sentinel i leveled mostly PvE, only did PvP a little (was valour rank 25 ish when i got 50) and built up my 1000/1000 and a champion bag already, seemed the obvious thing to do. But not only that... i did the PvE dailies for 2 days in a row to sort out my customisible gear as much as i could also.

 

My first level 50 game... i solo'd a battlemaster titled marauder with 2x black/red lightsabers, was my first fight even in the game on my way to a turret on alderaan... nice introduction and prooving the original poster correct

I had a LOT of problems with sorcs and pretty much all round as a sentinel early on but from moment i got cent gear full... a champion main hand, things was np from there.

 

One thing i will say though, whilst skill is better than gear, when your faced with another good player who DOES outgear you, it is fairly obvious

With my full champ gear now if i see a fresh 50 i can sometimes kill him in 1 master strike, its shocking.

 

Please revise, you've contradicted yourself, you claim you soloed a battlemaster ( thus gear doesn't matter ) then you go on to say gear makes a visceral difference. ./confused

[AGoldCrayon]

Please revise, you've contradicted yourself, you claim you soloed a battlemaster ( thus gear doesn't matter ) then you go on to say gear makes a visceral difference. ./confused

 

He didn't contradict himself at all. Obviously the BM he solo'd was not that good of a player. Thus, his skill as a player was able to overcome the gear gap. He goes on to say that an equally skilled player with better gear will prevail. It wasn't that hard to understand.

[EternalFinality]

Put that Battlemaster premade in 50s greens and most of the time, they'll lose to an average pug.

 

Teamwork and communication is important.

Skill is important.

Gear is just as important.

[Sparcrypt]

Or they could have gone the guild wars 2 route and used modern design.

1) skill shots, lots of em, make people aim and plan attacks in order to actually do optimal damage

2) no stats in pvp

3) gear is a pure bragging rights only carrot - that while still equally coveted doesn't give you a license to 6 v 1 guys without it by hitting your face on the keyboard

 

There is nothing wrong with having to do a little work to gear up. Full cent is damn near handed to you through the daily/weekly quests and you ARE competitive wearing it cause guess what? I'm wearing it right now and I'm doing great.

 

Champ gear doesn't take long either - I'll have all that in another week of fairly casual playing. BM gear might be longer but the upgrade is tiny so who cares?

[Alakine]

He didn't contradict himself at all. Obviously the BM he solo'd was not that good of a player. Thus, his skill as a player was able to overcome the gear gap. He goes on to say that an equally skilled player with better gear will prevail. It wasn't that hard to understand.

 

For what he said to be true that BM must have been downsing hard. Even with my middle ground gear I can beat the **** out of a person with none using zero effort regardless of how much talent they have.

[Rtwozero]

Dude you need to shut up. Really? Really? Okay first, GEAR MATTERS.

 

All the positive thinking in the world doesn't matter for crap when the enemy team is lol-2-shotting you. Gear matters more in this game's pvp then in any other pvp system I have ever come across. One stat that affects offense defense and healing... lolgg bioware, third grade math tells you that will have a tremendous impact. I have only 3 pieces of centurion left and a bm juggernaut can hit me for 7k, SEVEN THOUSAND; half my health pool...

 

Second, you make no mention of the groups your going against or your realms population balance. Those two variables also matter. If your winning 99 percent congrats, your beating up weaklings with no gear or coordination ./golfclap

 

Third you really need to stop posting like this your ruining everything for everyone. The pvp system has enormous issues with it and when you go around spreading false information your muddling the communities message. The fact is its broken bad. Very few people are enjoying it, the majority of us are suffering it.

 

Try reading the OP before going into a rant.... You can also add weight to your argument by explaining what is 'broken'. And seriously.... if you are paying a subscription to 'suffer' why bother...

[Sparcrypt]

Put that Battlemaster premade in 50s greens and most of the time, they'll lose to an average pug.

 

Teamwork and communication is important.

Skill is important.

Gear is just as important.

 

Nope, teamwork comes first, then skill, then gear.

 

Read my first post - after leading hundreds, possibley thousands of battlegrounds in WoW with zero gear or skill requirements I am more than qualified to make that call.

 

And even assuming I'm completely wrong - the PvP gear is VERY easy to get. This mythical 'months long grind' of losing every match just does not exist unless you're doing something very very wrong.

[Apocalypse-]

Gear is a tiebreaker in close matches. It shouldn't be. Gear makes some games that shouldn't be competitive competitive because the side that is being outplayed has a passive crutch. That isn't good design.

 

Yes, gear can be overcome. But you get into a match where your opponent is matching you move for move, and gear is the difference.

 

I'd happily give up my full Battlemaster set (I'm a sentinel, it looks terrible anyways) if it meant everyone was put back into 124 (max crafted) gear and everyone could get that gear at will and design their gear exactly how they wanted it.

[Alakine]

There is nothing wrong with having to do a little work to gear up. Full cent is damn near handed to you through the daily/weekly quests and you ARE competitive wearing it cause guess what? I'm wearing it right now and I'm doing great.

 

Champ gear doesn't take long either - I'll have all that in another week of fairly casual playing. BM gear might be longer but the upgrade is tiny so who cares?

 

Full cent buys you an extra global cd before you die... thats about it

[Miravlix]

Or do the PvP daily as you level, save up 1000/1000 and get 6 bags when you ding.

 

If you put in ZERO effort then yes, you will have gear so bad you have issues. What's your point? That you should get gear for nothing? This is an MMO, everything has a progression path and the PvP one is quite easy, but you still have to actually do it.

 

I guess you have dyslexia like me since you don't read very well.

 

OR MAKE THEM DING 50 AFTER THEY HAVE DONE MOST OF THE 50 STUFF.

 

So they are geared in level 50 gear at least.

[EternalFinality]

Nope, teamwork comes first, then skill, then gear.

 

Read my first post - after leading hundreds, possibley thousands of battlegrounds in WoW with zero gear or skill requirements I am more than qualified to make that call.

 

And even assuming I'm completely wrong - the PvP gear is VERY easy to get. This mythical 'months long grind' of losing every match just does not exist unless you're doing something very very wrong.

 

Is this some failure appeal to authority? I've PvPed just as much as you have. Skilled people know what they're doing on an instinctual level most of the time. A group of randomly assigned yet competent players in good gear will wipe the floor with a coordinated yet terribly geared premade.

 

When the focus target doesn't die because they do bad damage, it doesn't matter if they coordinated all their people to the right spot and picked their targets.

 

You're right in that the PvP gear grind doesn't exist....anymore. It used to. Not so much now. But it may be reintroduced, who knows.

Edited March 10, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Alakine]

Try reading the OP before going into a rant.... You can also add weight to your argument by explaining what is 'broken'. And seriously.... if you are paying a subscription to 'suffer' why bother...

 

Because its the worst mmo released in a dozen years except for everything else. You want story deeper than a matchbox or an engine that doesn't come complete with an autographed copy of the bible this is pretty much your only option for quite awhile.

[AGoldCrayon]

Gear is a tiebreaker in close matches. It shouldn't be. Gear makes some games that shouldn't be competitive competitive because the side that is being outplayed has a passive crutch. That isn't good design.

 

Yes, gear can be overcome. But you get into a match where your opponent is matching you move for move, and gear is the difference.

 

I'd happily give up my full Battlemaster set (I'm a sentinel, it looks terrible anyways) if it meant everyone was put back into 124 (max crafted) gear and everyone could get that gear at will and design their gear exactly how they wanted it.

 

With Biowares approach to pvp, gear is less of an issue than it was, and will be even less of an issue in the future. Gear is easy to get. The issue I take, and I suspect many other people take, is that BW is simply caving into the whiners.

 

Every pvp oriented player I have ever played with has had no problem putting in the time to get the gear. No one is afraid that if BW gives out the best gear, all these people getting stomped now will magically be some elite fighting force that will make the 'hardcore' pvp'ers admit that gear was the only reason they won.

 

If you put someone in the best gear that doesn't have a clue, they're just going to be well geared people that don't have a clue. All that time spent pvp'ing as I leveled wasn't some contrived plot to give myself a head start on gear, it was so I could learn the ins and outs of my class, and every other class that I'd come up against.

Edited March 10, 2012 by AGoldCrayon

[getdownsb]

TL;DR

1. Teamwork is more important than ANYTHING else.

2. PvP gear is VERY easy to get. Once you have full centurian you are plenty competitive.

3. All your complaining is making Bioware hand gear out like candy - it won't help, you will still lose to those who play as a team. (clarification here: I don't care that they're doing this, I'm just saying it won't help you win).

 

1. Then you wouldn't care if everyone had the exact same stats so the rest of your points equate to "qq I need gear advantage to make up for my badd".

[Sparcrypt]

Is this some failure appeal to authority? I've PvPed just as much as you have. Skilled people know what they're doing on an instinctual level most of the time. A group of disorganized yet competent players in good gear will wipe the floor with a coordinated yet terribly geared premade.

 

When the focus target doesn't die because they do bad damage, it doesn't matter if they coordinated all their people to the right spot and picked their targets.

 

You're right in that the PvP doesn't exist....anymore. It used to. Not so much now. But it may be reintroduced, who knows.

 

No, I'm speaking from my own experience and backing up my arguments. I'm not claiming authority over anyone, I'm saying that I have a lot of exerience of putting ungeared players who work together against geared opposition and winning. If I was to post without saying why I felt I was able to make such statements, everyone would immedately ask me to back them up. Thus, I try and back up everything I say as I say it to avoid that.

 

And at no point did I claim gear didn't matter AT ALL. I've said multiple times that this is an MMO and thus you work to better your gear. However gear is the least important factor of the three. That doesn't make it unimportant, but of the three things - teamwork, skill and gear - teamwork matters the most and will make up for what you lack with the other two. If the skill and gear difference is HUGE then obviously they will make more of an impact.

 

The point of this post was twofold - first, gear doesn't matter as much as people think it does. Second - which everyone with your arugment is skipping over - is that getting your gear to an appropriate level so that you are competitive is very very easy. It is not some 3 month long grind like people keep trying to imply.

[Alakine]

With Biowares approach to pvp, gear is less of an issue than it was

 

Can I please have some of what you smoked? Gear has tremendous influence in this game. Otherwise why would battlemasters complain when anyone suggests that the matchmaking system only pit them against people of reasonably comparable gear?

[Sparcrypt]

1. Then you wouldn't care if everyone had the exact same stats so the rest of your points equate to "qq I need gear advantage to make up for my badd".

 

Seriously? Try reading point number 3 in your own quote.

[EternalFinality]

And at no point did I claim gear didn't matter AT ALL. I've said multiple times that this is an MMO and thus you work to better your gear. However gear is the least important factor of the three. That doesn't make it unimportant, but of the three things - teamwork, skill and gear - teamwork matters the most and will make up for what you lack with the other two. If the skill and gear difference is HUGE then obviously they will make more of an impact.

 

Well, simply put, I disagree.

 

However this is something neither of us will ever be able to prove one way or another.

[getdownsb]

Seriously? Try reading point number 3 in your own quote.

 

Try reading point number one in your one quote.

 

Call me when you get it. Actually, don't, I don't need random phone calls a billion years phone now.

Edited March 10, 2012 by getdownsb

[Apocalypse-]

With Biowares approach to pvp, gear is less of an issue than it was, and will be even less of an issue in the future. Gear is easy to get. The issue I take, and I suspect many other people take, is that BW is simply caving into the whiners.

 

Every pvp oriented player I have ever played with has had no problem putting in the time to get the gear. No one is afraid that if BW gives out the best gear, all these people getting stomped now will magically be some elite fighting force that the 'hardcore' pvp'ers to admit that gear was the only reason they won.

 

If you put someone in the best gear that doesn't have a clue, they're just going to be well geared people that don't have a clue. All that time spent pvp'ing as I leveled wasn't some contrived plot to give myself a head start on gear, it was so I could learn the ins and outs of my class, and every other class that I'd come up against.

 

You ignored my post... Time-gated gear being a tiebreaker in an even match is too much of an influence imo.

 

Theorycrafting stats is different, but me beating you because you don't have access to the gear I'm wearing isn't that fun.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Apocalypse-