Playing for fun, not gear.

[Khoraji]

But what if getting gear IS fun. People who have been playing RPG's for a while, me included, enjoy getting gear. We enjoy messing with the numbers, trying new stats to stack to see what happens, comparing our builds with fellow players, etc. This has always been a huge part of RPG's whether they be MMO or not. It seems to me that having fun and earning gear go hand-in-hand for people who actually enjoy RPG's.

 

I would say go play an FPS if you want PvP with no gear, but even FPS games like MW and BF have gear grinds these days, it adds to the fun and enjoyment if you are rewarded with real, usable items. It saddens me when people with no gear rage on the forums because they got rolled. I mean seriously? It takes longer to prestige ONCE in MW than it does to get full champ gear in SWTOR. Just deal with it for a week and then you can be the same as everyone else, CONGRATS! If you dont play enough PvP to have decent gear, your going to suck whether your geared or not.

 

Where is the progression? Where is the reward? Dont get me wrong, I enjoy WZ's just for the fun of it, especially when they become ranked, but this is still an RPG and I want gear that I can use, that I can show off to my guild-mates, etc.

 

/rant.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Khoraji

[Halefthaut]

You have games out there for that theorycrafting gameplay... not everybody likes the same as you and not every MMOs out there should meet your requirements to be fun

 

You cant theorycraft in SWTOR until there are tools for it (combat logs)

[Khoraji]

You have games out there for that theorycrafting gameplay... not everybody likes the same as you and not every MMOs out there should meet your requirements to be fun

 

 

I could say the same about people complaining about gear, whats fun for them isn't fun for me. The fact is the every MMORPG SHOULD meet certain requirements. That's the point of a Genre, to know what your getting into. Its the same in any other type of game. You don't buy an FPS expecting to raid dungeons and cast spells do you?

 

RPG = Role Playing Game, you are playing a character. To get better you need to make your character better and you do that with gear and/or stat points and skills or w/e they want to call it.

[Ozzone]

RPG = Role Playing Game, you are playing a character. To get better you need to make your character better and you do that with gear and/or stat points and skills or w/e they want to call it.

 

Well it just proves that a lot of players want to turn PvP in an MMO into co-op FPS. Can't blame them since wzs encourage that. BW is going that route also by phasing down Ilum and adding another WZ.

[Khoraji]

Well it just proves that a lot of players want to turn PvP in an MMO into co-op FPS. Can't blame them since wzs encourage that. BW is going that route also by phasing down Ilum and adding another WZ.

 

An FPS where everyone has aimbots

[EasymodeX]

http://www.progressquest.com/play/

[aLLwOrLd_RB]

I agree with you, there must be something to aim for. Call it a reward if you like but I want to be able to make my character better at what he does for the amount of time that I have put in. More time invested into PvP should yield more pvp gear.

[Barzarel]

Think what most trying to say or get across about the fun bit, is that gear supposed to be a subgame not the actual game

[Sosajoshua]

I people played for fun they wouldnt rush to win in Huttball >_>

[Defdaddy]

I Like messing with the stats and optimizing to and having to really think about modding etc... SWTOR offers all of that and then some when you add in datacrons/matrix cubes/relics/offhands.

 

I have to say this about your statement: 'getting gear to show off to your guildmates' Your guildmates don't care, I don't care, nobody cares what your gear is. You are in the minority of players who want to grind over and over again for months' to get something to say "Hey look at this" ---it does not make you cool dude, its cool to you and thats cool, but get over yourself and trying to impress people you have never met that don't really care that much anyway.

 

There are cool things to get via grinding: Mounts/Social Gear (end game usable in 1.2) which actually differentiate you and do make people go wow that's cool.. And you can do that.

Redundantly doing something for months in order to have gear that allows you to have a decent playing experience is one of the worst concepts an MMO can focus on. Now you want to something like that to make an appearence (mounts/outfit/title) that is super cool and rare b/c of the nature of obtaining it I am for that! But to make gameplay a ****** experience for months just in order to have fun, there is no fun in that. I mean c'mon after grinding to have fun your so sick of doing it that your about ready to stop anyway.

 

Iv'e done it before I played Black Talon till I was blue in the face to get Social IV Rank. Cause I wanted Sand People Gear and the Alderran gear. Was it worth it yes, because I like being the only other sand people I have seen on my server (cant wait till 1.2 comes--so I can wear it again). But I can't imagine grinding like that in order to have a decent PvP experience.

 

Gameplay should have more to do with Skill & Technique. Relying on seriously outgearing someone in order for you to own is WIZZEAAK.

 

You are essentially complaining about an even playingfield.

[Zarcharias]

RPG games have been about skill/stat/gear progression for me since 1987 when when I used a crayon to color in the numbers on my original D&D box set dice and got my first +1 longsword.

 

The puzzle of combining various aspects of stats within a particular set of game mechanics has always been a key part of the fun for me, whether it was D&D or NWN, or or EQ, or WoW.

 

Not having a combat log makes it more challenging, but I still enjoy it.

 

Catering to this new socialist entitlement world view, and nerfing everyone and every thing to the lowest common denominator to ensure all are "equal" is destructive and entropic, whether in a game or in real life.

 

The fact is, bads will be bads, regardless of how much free gear they don't have to work for, and those that strive to better themselves will have less and less incentive to continue to play.

 

My vanguard is nearly full BM, and I still am motivated to play because I want to strip a second set of BM gear mods and customize what I have. I am motivated to do Ops so I can pull rakata mods for my PVP gear as well.

 

MY KC shadow alt is 42 now (fastest leveling in any MMO, ever, btw) and I look at how little work I have to do, even in the current state of the game, to get my comms and valour, and I am less motivated to do it, because the challenge just is not there.

 

If we MUST be socialists and be handed everything, then at least let us stay with the theme and ensure the quality of that gear meets the low standards inherent in that system. Perhaps give away a free "hurray for you, you got to 50" Centurion set, but make sure there is a difficult to obtain set for those that are willing to put forth effort to better themselves.

 

It is an MMO, so grind is grind, but at least let those that are willing to do it gain something for it. In terms of PVP, that 3% extra bonus from champ to BM could be 5% and make BM even harder to get that its current average of 1 piece (2 coms) per 15 bags opened.

 

It is possible to cater to both sides, as long as both sides are considered in decisions for future game changes.

[dcgregorya]

Uh...

 

Nothing is stopping you from swapping mods on gear and things like that to appease your math side, or getting new gear to slot your mods into.

 

What exactly does that have to do with tiered PVP gear (which isn't a math question, just a matter of 3 > 2 > 1).

 

I don't get what you're asking - if you want to progress for gear to become gradually more and more powerful play against the computer.

 

If you want to test your skill against other players, tweak your build, set up your keybinds and PVP like a man.

 

I hear in 1.2 you can get a very shiny tauntaun pet if you grind out 47 days of PVP WZ - that should give you some incentive.

Edited March 9, 2012 by dcgregorya

[EasymodeX]

RPG games have been about skill/stat/gear progression for me since 1987 when when I used a crayon to color in the numbers on my original D&D box set dice and got my first +1 longsword.

 

D&D used stats and math to simulate the environment. The core gameplay of D&D was the role-playing.

 

 

The puzzle of combining various aspects of stats within a particular set of game mechanics has always been a key part of the fun for me, whether it was D&D or NWN, or or EQ, or WoW.

 

Catering to this new socialist entitlement world view, and nerfing everyone and every thing to the lowest common denominator to ensure all are "equal" is destructive and entropic, whether in a game or in real life.

 

In [most iterations of] D&D, you had a fixed number of stat points to allocate per level. Items were normalized. You don't start one character at level 1 and another at level 3 in the same situation.

 

 

make sure there is a difficult to obtain set for those that are willing to put forth effort to better themselves.

 

Sorry, this is a game. Not RL.

 

Suck it up.

[Khoraji]

Uh...

 

Nothing is stopping you from swapping mods on gear and things like that to appease your math side, or getting new gear to slot your mods into.

 

What exactly does that have to do with tiered PVP gear (which isn't a math question, just a matter of 3 > 2 > 1).

 

I don't get what you're asking - if you want to progress for gear to become gradually more and more powerful play against the computer.

 

If you want to test your skill against other players, tweak your build, set up your keybinds and PVP like a man.

 

I hear in 1.2 you can get a very shiny tauntaun pet if you grind out 47 days of PVP WZ - that should give you some incentive.

 

Nothing is stopping me right now... but the direction we are going soon we will have full epics just for creating a character. We dont want to alienate the casuals now do we. Everyone has a right to the best gear in the game right?

 

Next they will take away your ability to "tweak your build" because its not balanced.

 

I dont consider doing WZ's a grind. But I would like more of a reward than just a pat on the back for doing a good job. Maybe the rating system will be enough, I just don't like the direction we are traveling in.

[Guiken]

Just adding to this discussion. Gear progression, or more important, character progression at it's core is THE reason to do just about anything in MMOs for achievers.

 

Pvp can be fun but without any real incentive to play competitively, why bother? If I was a challenge of "skill" I'll play an FPS where everyone is exactly equal.

 

Running around mashing buttons with an always-on aimbot isn't challenging or rewarding. When both people have equal gear and nothing else to obtain to make them better then what you're essentially doing is standing around playing rocks, paper, scissors until one day you realize what you're doing and move on.

 

cosmetics, titles, mounts etc offer no appeal to me or most of the serious pvpers in my guild.

MMo pvp is not about gear or stat equality, FPS pvp is and as an FPS this game doesnt stack up.

 

Battlemaster Gear wasn't a huge upgrade over champ gear, but it was enough to incentivize serious pvpers to put in the time to achieve it. With that now gone, the long term hold isnt here anymore. Ginding hundreds of hours of ranked warzones to have a pink feather in my hat instead of a red one just isnt worth my sub money.

 

We'll see how things roll out over the next month or so though.

[Dego_Locc]

IMO grind time should give you better gear, that's how most MMO's with good pvp work. Nice incentive for people who play more.

 

But alas, casuals whine, making us pre 1.2 BM(and even worse, us pre 1.5 BM's) countless hours of work irrelevant. If I want a level playing field out the gate, I'll go play a FPS.....

 

 

Oh wait, even BF3 and COD, along with MOST other FPS's these days require you to level up to get the better guns and perks.....

 

 

I'm growing tired of the bad decisions made by the devs, but I am aware this is what MOST ppl want. Because most ppl haven't grinded 1 or more characters up to BM yet.

 

/Sigh

 

 

GW2, please release.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Dego_Locc

[Khoraji]

Just adding to this discussion. Gear progression, or more important, character progression at it's core is THE reason to do just about anything in MMOs for achievers.

 

Pvp can be fun but without any real incentive to play competitively, why bother? If I was a challenge of "skill" I'll play an FPS where everyone is exactly equal.

 

Running around mashing buttons with an always-on aimbot isn't challenging or rewarding. When both people have equal gear and nothing else to obtain to make them better then what you're essentially doing is standing around playing rocks, paper, scissors until one day you realize what you're doing and move on.

 

cosmetics, titles, mounts etc offer no appeal to me or most of the serious pvpers in my guild.

MMo pvp is not about gear or stat equality, FPS pvp is and as an FPS this game doesnt stack up.

 

Battlemaster Gear wasn't a huge upgrade over champ gear, but it was enough to incentivize serious pvpers to put in the time to achieve it. With that now gone, the long term hold isnt here anymore. Ginding hundreds of hours of ranked warzones to have a pink feather in my hat instead of a red one just isnt worth my sub money.

 

We'll see how things roll out over the next month or so though.

 

This....

[Defdaddy]

It seems to me obsession about the game being all about gear has to do with ego boosting and perceptions that people think your sweet and you get your jollies off of that. Hey if thats why you play, then fine that's the great thing about an MMO you can play it however you like.

 

I'd just like to point out your quests for greater and greater gear is a long grind for a short lived experience. i.e. what is so great about getting the new tier War Hero gear in 1.2 when the War Hero's will only be PvP'ing against other War Hero's? Again You have no advantage.

 

But ohhhhh the Prestige!

 

I just made myself LOL

 

 

The world, the environment, the story, the mechanics, the social aspect, the crafting, the PvP, the epic flashpoints and operations this is the game.

 

You gear up in order to more successfully and efficiently do these last things I mentioned. You do not get Gear for the sake of having gear--to what sit on the fleet and talk about your gear that you just wear and never do any content/pvp in?

 

I dont get it man, I just dont get it--"Once I have max tier gear, I have no reason to play". You make it sound like you HATE playing this game--that its not fun. That the only shred of fun you have is when you are awarded gear. ---So to me it seems like you play a game that you HATE for gear that you LOVE. I just don't get it!

 

AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS?!?!

[caultonpos]

Just adding to this discussion. Gear progression, or more important, character progression at it's core is THE reason to do just about anything in MMOs for achievers.

 

Pvp can be fun but without any real incentive to play competitively, why bother? If I was a challenge of "skill" I'll play an FPS where everyone is exactly equal.

 

Running around mashing buttons with an always-on aimbot isn't challenging or rewarding. When both people have equal gear and nothing else to obtain to make them better then what you're essentially doing is standing around playing rocks, paper, scissors until one day you realize what you're doing and move on.

 

cosmetics, titles, mounts etc offer no appeal to me or most of the serious pvpers in my guild.

MMo pvp is not about gear or stat equality, FPS pvp is and as an FPS this game doesnt stack up.

 

Battlemaster Gear wasn't a huge upgrade over champ gear, but it was enough to incentivize serious pvpers to put in the time to achieve it. With that now gone, the long term hold isnt here anymore. Ginding hundreds of hours of ranked warzones to have a pink feather in my hat instead of a red one just isnt worth my sub money.

 

We'll see how things roll out over the next month or so though.

 

this....