Drewser Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 It's not mathematically possible given what we know about the server populations. There maybe 1.7 million subs OR the "average" player is playing 4 hours a day. But not both, all the servers would need to be consistently fuller. It would have to be like just after release (after the capacity increase) with most servers full for much of the day (they quite possible had 1.7 million subs averaging 4 hours a day then, maybe even a bit more). Where is this quote coming from about 4 hours per day? I thought average play time was 4 hours per session not 4 hours per day. There are plenty of people in my guild that are weekend warriors. I never see them during the week but the log 5-6 hours every Sat and Sun. There could easily be 1.7m subs with an average playtime of 4 hours per session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 As if the operating costs are any where near the development costs... Operating costs for an MMO are ridculously cheap in comparison. Um, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syylara Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 You do realize the irony of what yuo just posted, no? Criticizing me for making a generalization but then making one yourself? Highly publicized fraud cases that are very much the exception to the rule do not prove that the SEC is just letting ALL corporations run around willy-nilly lying to their sharehholders. Now you're using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizbanic Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 This predicting the future doesn't say anything. "At current rate we expect..." My bro and I extended our playtime in januari with a GC, which ends 20 march. He already quit, i'm quitting the 20th. And so are many more people on my server. Also can anyone tell me how it's possible the servers were heavy/full all the time during 1st month now all are low/standard even though EA claims there was no drop? Your predicting the future doesn't say anything either. You actually believe gen chat when people say they are quitting? I doubt many more people are going to stop some yes but not many. Also during the first month the server cap was low to fill servers and gauge them, after time BW raised the cap. Make it easy to understand. You get a 10oz cup and fill it to the brim now it is full but, get an extension to make it a 15oz cup and now it is no longer full. Still some servers that are hitting heavy. Although the game is still in the honeymoon stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akirator Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Where is this quote coming from about 4 hours per day? I thought average play time was 4 hours per session not 4 hours per day. There are plenty of people in my guild that are weekend warriors. I never see them during the week but the log 5-6 hours every Sat and Sun. There could easily be 1.7m subs with an average playtime of 4 hours per session. The only quote I know of is from the Q3 Earnings Call in the beginning of February. "This is an outstanding start for an MMO, and the metrics on engagement suggests players are loving the game. Unique log-ins are averaging about 1 million per day, and their average playtime is approximately 4 hours per day." I also read that to mean the 1 million unique logins are averaging 4 hours per day, not that all 1.7 are logging on for 4 hours a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 FIrst, yes, changing the server cap changes threshhold levels. Changing the cap is saying "more people can log in concurrently, so we'll redefine light, heavy, standard and full." Second, they don't need to rely on things like "standard" "light" and "heavy" to measure server population the way completely debunked sites like torstatus do: EA/BW have the raw data. NOBODY else does. They show those server capacity levels on the select screen to give people some indication of population and what their login queue times might be, but it's only intended to provide a very rough idea. The raw numbers are quite available to peolpe at EA/BW who make statements like the one at issue here, however, so claiming that EA/BW's "metrics would be wrothless" in terms of them being able to make a statement like this and back it up is completely ridiculous. They can click a button and see precisely how many people are logged in...they can look at YOU and see what YOUR play time looks like...they can run scripts that provide them with the average hours played/logged in across a server or across the entire population of subscribers. The ONLY place the metrics become worthless is when people try to use the information made public, like "lilght" "standard" etc., to claim they are providing a mathematical analysis...they're not...because the labels' definitions change over time and THAT'S DONE ON PURPOSE TO PREVENT PLACES LIKE TORSTATUS FROM PROVIDING A RELIABLE ANALYSIS. It's proprietary informaion and the corporations will protect it. That's an awful lot of assumption in your defensive paragraph there. I ASK YOU AGAIN: Why does BioWare show server levels on the select screen? If the answer is anything other than "to confuse players" then those thresholds CAN NEVER CHANGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) This is a ridiculous assumption on your part. Why would they NOT change the thresholds? Why would they just increase the population caps of the servers only to leave the thresholds the same? After they increase the caps, WHICH of the thresholds is affected then? They have to add those numbers somewhere, so which of the thresholds do they add those numbers to? No they never said anything about increasing thresholds, probably because they shouldn't have to. RE-defining the thresholds is the most logical choice in the matter. Maybe they should have spelled it out more clearly for the slow kids so that people couldn't come up with such idiotic theories. Sure. Let me speed it up for you then. Why? Because out of a 500 cap, > 400 is a much smaller number than > 400 out of 1000. The conclusion here being that they could obfuscate server population behind a long list of Stand and Heavy servers. They are, after all, a business and want to make money. I have no evidence that this is the case, however. Just as you have no evidence that it isn't. Which is really all I'm saying. Or was that too slow for you? Edited March 9, 2012 by Dezzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XOrionX Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Um, no. Um no? Explain. Please don't try and tell me that BW has spent 200m in the last three months just in operating expenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Where is this quote coming from about 4 hours per day? I thought average play time was 4 hours per session not 4 hours per day. There are plenty of people in my guild that are weekend warriors. I never see them during the week but the log 5-6 hours every Sat and Sun. There could easily be 1.7m subs with an average playtime of 4 hours per session. Back up there somewhere. However the issue being debated atm is that with 1.7 million subs the average hours played per day per person has to be less than 4 hours. Even 2 is maybe a bit much (14 per week). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 The only quote I know of is from the Q3 Earnings Call in the beginning of February. "This is an outstanding start for an MMO, and the metrics on engagement suggests players are loving the game. Unique log-ins are averaging about 1 million per day, and their average playtime is approximately 4 hours per day." I also read that to mean the 1 million unique logins are averaging 4 hours per day, not that all 1.7 are logging on for 4 hours a day. I agree with the way you read that. I will have to look for the session quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Which is basically the same thing that I just said, they go after individuals who profit "unfairly" but generally do nothing if the corporation itself is the one that benefits. I don't see that taking place, I see if a private individual who holds a position as an officer in a corporation lies and benefits personally from it, they are punished, but if their misleading statements are a benefit to the company, then they start the "I cannot recall any details of...." stonewalling and then 5 administrative assistants fall on their swords saying they made an error in the paperwork and it isn't his fault, etc, etc and nothing every really happens. HA! Having worked a for two fortune 100 companies that had Sarbanes–Oxley violations I can assure you that isn't how it works; I have seen entire corporations rocked almost to it's foundations and no one gets a out of jail free card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Um no? Explain. Please don't try and tell me that BW has spent 200m in the last three months just in operating expenses. Of course not. But please first ask the original poster how they came to the conclusion of "it costs next to nothing to run an MMO" - implying that all revenues went to immediately pay off debt from making the game. I don't know why I even spend time here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syylara Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Um no? Explain. Please don't try and tell me that BW has spent 200m in the last three months just in operating expenses. That isn't what he said... The point being made is that ongoing operating costs post-launch are higher than pre-launch. They now have mulitple data centers to run. This involves maintenance and operations personnel, electricity, bandwidth costs, insurance for all of the equipment, and the upkeep/maintenance/replacement of parts. Nobody is saying that in 3 months the costs equal the entire 5+ years of pre-launch expenses, the point being made is that within the same time frame the costs are higher. Edited March 9, 2012 by Syylara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 The only quote I know of is from the Q3 Earnings Call in the beginning of February. "This is an outstanding start for an MMO, and the metrics on engagement suggests players are loving the game. Unique log-ins are averaging about 1 million per day, and their average playtime is approximately 4 hours per day." I also read that to mean the 1 million unique logins are averaging 4 hours per day, not that all 1.7 are logging on for 4 hours a day. It is articles like this that lead me to believe it was sessions: http://torwars.com/2012/02/25/swtor-numbers-average-playtime-is-4-6-hrs-sunday-most-popular/ BioWare’s Greg Zeschuk spoke with Kotaku this week and stated that the average Star Wars: The Old Republic subscriber plays for 4-6 hours per session. Zeschuk says “When they play, their sessions are absurd.” SWTOR’s Red Leader also went on to list Sunday as the biggest playtime day-of-the-week and says the team knows the game is going well when people stop posting as frequently on the forums and simply log-in and get to adventuring. Have a read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blotter Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Now you're using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man No, that's not a straw man. I just pointed out that your post was ironic. I didn't mischaracterize what you said or invent and atteribute a completely different argumetn to you in order to knock it down. Fact is, your conspiracy theories just help prove my point. You're the one inventing crazy scenarios to justify claiming that corporations don't get punished for violating SEC regs. They do. Fines are the worst punishment a corporation can suffer other than forced disolution and they are regularly and routinely fined for violations. Unless you want corporations dissolved left and right and millions of people losing jobs as a result, then you have to accept that fines are what happens. You can't put a corporation in jail. Besides, what experience do you have to contradict that MBA professor who postted or me as an attorney who deals with this crap occassionally? What you saw on the television or in a movie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 The only quote I know of is from the Q3 Earnings Call in the beginning of February. "This is an outstanding start for an MMO, and the metrics on engagement suggests players are loving the game. Unique log-ins are averaging about 1 million per day, and their average playtime is approximately 4 hours per day." I also read that to mean the 1 million unique logins are averaging 4 hours per day, not that all 1.7 are logging on for 4 hours a day. If it's read that way then definitely there are a vast number of the 1.7 million subs playing for very, very small numbers of ours per day and/or a lot simply not being played at all whilst still subbed. Which is very good for Bioware $$$-wise if people continue doing that, but very bad if they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeterno Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Numbers gonna skyrocket now that the game featured prominantly on The Big Bang Theory. TORs now officially mainstream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syylara Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 HA! Having worked a for two fortune 100 companies that had Sarbanes–Oxley violations I can assure you that isn't how it works; I have seen entire corporations rocked almost to it's foundations and no one gets a out of jail free card. I guess they didn't know how to play the game :9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAndre Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I dont care if this game has 2 million or 20 million subscribers, as far as Im concerned it sucks. Thats all that matters to me, my opinion. As far as failing, after playing this, I have decided to never again buy anything by bioware, even though I was a fan of the company before. So I guess they failed pretty hard. Also, as far as subscriptions go, I guess I am listed as active, but only because they made me buy an extra month in addition to activate the game, I havent logged in in weeks, and dont plant to ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esaru Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Funny how they do this before the big 3 month sub-end period on March 20th. Many others (including myself) will be gone by then. Edited March 9, 2012 by Esaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blotter Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Funny how they do this before the big 3 month sub-end period on March 20th. Many others (including myself) will be gone by then. Certainly hope so. Toodles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uziforyou Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Anyone can predict the future. They may not be right but they can make a guess. It's fine that you enjoy it, but with the changes I have seen thus far coming in 1.2 and the botched legacy system I expect it will grow stale for a great many of us who have come to expect more from mmos. Good for you. Everyone has their own tastes and is entitled to their opinion. Go do something else and don't let the door hit you in the rear on the way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XOrionX Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Sure. Let me speed it up for you then. Why? Because out of a 500 cap, > 400 is a much smaller number than > 400 out of 1000. The conclusion here being that they could obfuscate server population behind a long list of Stand and Heavy servers. They are, after all, a business and want to make money. I have no evidence that this is the case, however. Just as you have no evidence that it isn't. Which is really all I'm saying. Or was that too slow for you? I have a server, its cap is 1,000. low pop: 1-250 standard: 251-500 high: 501-750 very high: 751-1,000 My thresholds are currently set at 25% per level. Over the next two months I increase my server cap to 1,500. The most logical choice would be to split that number again at 25% per level. However, what you are saying is that instead they did this. low pop: 1-250 standard: 251-500 high: 501-750 very high: 751-1,500 My pop thresholds are now 16%/16%/16%/50% <--- see how ridiculous that looks? Obviously this is just an example and no indicative of BW's actual servers, but it at least points out how ridiculous this thinking is. And no I don't work at BW, but neither do you. And at least my argument is logical, where as yours is just a fist full of straws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I dont care if this game has 2 million or 20 million subscribers, as far as Im concerned it sucks. Thats all that matters to me, my opinion. As far as failing, after playing this, I have decided to never again buy anything by bioware, even though I was a fan of the company before. So I guess they failed pretty hard. Also, as far as subscriptions go, I guess I am listed as active, but only because they made me buy an extra month in addition to activate the game, I havent logged in in weeks, and dont plant to ever again. That is simply your opinion. To those of us loving game, it is a success. For investors/EA, they still have to wait to see if it is a success or failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I guess they didn't know how to play the game :9. Ummm sure yeah that's it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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