PLEASE VOTE: Give Us Real Combat Logs

[joshbyrd]

No.

 

No, we don't need that special brand, of social poison, here.

 

NO ONE uses those meters in a good way, no one, what ever purpose they use to have, what ever measure they use to provide, that's irrelevant t in the face of how they are used now.

 

They are not used as tools, they are not used to teach, they are not used to improve any players game.

 

They are used to judge, divide, diminish the game to raw numbers, and reduce it's players to rotation obsessed robots.

 

The personal logs, is all anyone should need. Bioware did the right thing, and finally did what no other MMO company has had the guts to do. They ought to be commended.

 

We do not need meters, we'll do just fine without them.

 

this guy pretty much hit the nail on the head as far as what i think about the issue

[Drewser]

It is clear to me that Bioware does not want us to have access to combat logs because of the scrunity it will place on them. This game still has so many bugs that the combat logs will give us, the community, a means of pointing out these bugs and causing more havok to Bioware to fix the issues, which, even now, three months after release, havent been fixed.

 

Yes there are still lots of bugs in the combat system. Abilities that trigger a cooldown yet the damage doesnt take effect. AoE that is ontop of a group and yet the group takes no damage. There are more, and the combat logs would be arming us with the tools we need to bring Bioware's issues to the forefront. Why would they want to do that to themselfs? It just causes them more work and grief. So yea, I dont expect them to add combat logs for a while. Not until they are reasonabley sure they fixed the majority of the bugs.

 

Then why would they give us logs at all?

[Drewser]

you are making the same assumption when you say they know exactly how much damage we are doing.

 

yes of course they could make a boss unbeatable etc, but thats the point im making, it needs to be just right. not easy but requires concentration. how can i make the 10+ dps in my raid do this without seeing what they are doing?

 

No, I am not. They have given examples of the minutia they track.

[Retzilla]

Dear me. What can one say to this? Can you hear yourself?

 

You aren't describing a game, you're describing a scientific experiment. When did gamers stop playing games and start decrypting data? It's as if you're almost trying to make a computer game sound important. What exactly are you trying to turn this game into?

 

You want "pursuit of knowledge", go to university. This is a game. To be played.

 

this is more than a game this is a hobby. I like to be good at things I spend my time on, is that a crime? why are you against full scale combat logs and why do you try to speak for the people clearing nightmare modes and seek to do so in the future

[terminova]

this is more than a game this is a hobby. I like to be good at things I spend my time on, is that a crime? why are you against full scale combat logs and why do you try to speak for the people clearing nightmare modes and seek to do so in the future

 

Full scale combat logs aren't going to help clear content. You yourself have already stated you go over everything after combat after the raid, not during. What Bioware is doing is giving you the tools to do just that.

[Retzilla]

Full scale combat logs aren't going to help clear content. You yourself have already stated you go over everything after combat after the raid, not during. What Bioware is doing is giving you the tools to do just that.

 

really????? REALLY????

 

I want to be able to pull up why the tank died in a boss fight on the instant and use hard data with numbers that don't lie. rather than having to take a wild guess that could either berate the healers, or the tank himself. .

 

there are other examples of using the log mid raid to break down what happened in an encounter.

[CaMiCaZiE]

No, I am not. They have given examples of the minutia they track.

 

nice how you skipped my point. the assumption part was really relevant

[rhirne]

just so people know from the guild summit interview:

 

Ten Ton Hammer: Yeah, that was one of my main concerns. I love playing alts, but I don’t want to do the world quests over and over again. Ok, asking one last question and changing the topic rapidly to parsable out-of-game logs. How exactly does that work? From my understanding, only you are able to view your logs?

 

James Ohlen: Yes. We’re going to be able to get logs from your combat and you’ll be able to take that information and look at how your group did in a given combat. Right now, there are two schools of thought on it. One group of players don’t want the combat log because it can be exclusionary and it makes it that there’s all this pressure to perform a certain way. There are groups who think that’s the way it’s supposed to be, who want to be the super-elite group. So we made it that if you want to be the super-elite group, it takes a little bit more work. It’s not so easy to be exclusionary. You have to take that extra step to basically parse it out and look at it. You can get the information you need, but it’s something that we’re not making easy to use. It’s kind of a compromise. There’ll be guilds that’ll make use of it and I’m sure that there’ll be guilds that don’t.

Ten Ton Hammer: So you are able to see other people’s combat actions if you go out of game and parse the logs?

 

James Ohlen: Yes.

[Akash]

I am 100% in favor of real-time, UI overlaid performance meters for the entire group and/or raid.

 

As a progression raider, these tools are extremely helpful in determining how we need to adjust both as a raid and as individuals.

 

These meters have had a positive impact on both the progression experience and the social experience of my raiding guilds.

 

The real-time UI overlaid meters provide a "game within a game" of friendly competition on encounters, and help us to evaluate builds, gear, abilities, and consumables.

[DaxRendar]

this is more than a game this is a hobby. I like to be good at things I spend my time on, is that a crime? why are you against full scale combat logs and why do you try to speak for the people clearing nightmare modes and seek to do so in the future

 

But Ret, it's quite simple (and has been pointed out to you many times whether you choose to accept it or not) - with a Personal Parse-able Log you will have the ability to analyze and optimize your performance.

 

You will also have the ability to find like-minded individuals where your group can require parses to be shared on all runs.

 

So what is your problem?

[Yazule]

Once again NO!

 

guess you lose this round, combat logs WILL be in game in 1.2

 

get your play straight or find yourself in the land of misfit toys

[Seregul]

just so people know from the guild summit interview:

 

If I'm reading that right it looks like we are getting full combat logs.

[Quraswren]

But Ret, it's quite simple (and has been pointed out to you many times whether you choose to accept it or not) - with a Personal Parse-able Log you will have the ability to analyze and optimize your performance.

 

You will also have the ability to find like-minded individuals where your group can require parses to be shared on all runs.

 

So what is your problem?

 

His problem is most likely the fact he cannot judge others on the fly.

 

He can only judge himself on the fly and what others are willing to give him and that's not enough. He isn't in control of it all and that killing him.

 

I could be wrong but I don't think so.

[terminova]

really????? REALLY????

 

 

 

there are other examples of using the log mid raid to break down what happened in an encounter.

 

I'm sure the tank can download the log and read it. That person can relay what killed them.

Edited March 13, 2012 by terminova

[Retzilla]

But Ret, it's quite simple (and has been pointed out to you many times whether you choose to accept it or not) - with a Personal Parse-able Log you will have the ability to analyze and optimize your performance.

 

You will also have the ability to find like-minded individuals where your group can require parses to be shared on all runs.

 

So what is your problem?

 

this is a half assed attempt at a full scale log. with the way these logs work you have to get data from 8 or 16 different sources, instead of 1 solid source of information. this can and will leave gaping holes in the data gathered.

[Matte_Black]

this is more than a game this is a hobby. I like to be good at things I spend my time on, is that a crime? why are you against full scale combat logs and why do you try to speak for the people clearing nightmare modes and seek to do so in the future

 

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Choose to be a Jedi, a Sith, or from a variety of other classic Star Wars roles, and make decisions which define your personal story and determine your path down the light or dark side of the Force. Along the way you will befriend courageous companions who will fight at your side or possibly betray you based on your actions. Together, you will battle enemies in dynamic Star Wars combat and team up with other players to overcome incredible challenges.

 

Join us. Your personal Star Wars saga begins in Star Wars: The Old Republic.

 

This is the official game overview. I see "game", I don't see "hobby". I also see precious little about optimization, exact metrics and the "pursuit of knowledge" through scientific testing.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Matte_Black

[Yazule]

this is a half assed attempt at a full scale log. with the way these logs work you have to get data from 8 or 16 different sources, instead of 1 solid source of information. this can and will leave gaping holes in the data gathered.

 

so you have beta tested this?

 

or are you a developer?

 

all we KNOW is that you will have to do it out of game, i will have the parser 10 seconds after it is on google and it willl be on my second monitor. I will load logs during raid and we will debug problems relatively real time

[terminova]

this is a half assed attempt at a full scale log. with the way these logs work you have to get data from 8 or 16 different sources, instead of 1 solid source of information. this can and will leave gaping holes in the data gathered.

 

Only if everyone doesn't supply their logs from a guild run.

[Drewser]

nice how you skipped my point. the assumption part was really relevant

 

The rest of your post had nothing to do with developers creating content and us having combat logs.

[Quraswren]

this is a half assed attempt at a full scale log. with the way these logs work you have to get data from 8 or 16 different sources, instead of 1 solid source of information. this can and will leave gaping holes in the data gathered.

 

So analyzing yourself is not enough, you have to analyze the entire raid and you're worried your raid group wont give you the data?

[Akash]

How about this:

 

Real-time UI overlaid combat logs, that individuals can choose not to participate in?

 

That way, progression raiders can have their data, and those that choose not to play at that level can choose not to share. You won't be part of my raid if you choose not to share on a progression encounter, mind you, but if you're against real-time UI overlaid combat logs then you wouldn't fit with my raiding crew anyways.

[CaMiCaZiE]

The rest of your post had nothing to do with developers creating content and us having combat logs.

 

ummm, yeah it did.

 

"yes of course they could make a boss unbeatable etc, but thats the point im making, it needs to be just right. not easy but requires concentration. how can i make the 10+ dps in my raid do this without seeing what they are doing? "

 

that is pretty much about making content harder after knowing what people can do. can we actually argue the point rather than symantics? that would be great

[ScarletBlaze]

this is a half assed attempt at a full scale log. with the way these logs work you have to get data from 8 or 16 different sources, instead of 1 solid source of information. this can and will leave gaping holes in the data gathered.

 

From the way this thread has been going I think bioware has made a reasonable choice. The ones that agree with bioware's decision are being accused of

 

1. Non-combat logs period

 

2. Have no idea what a combat log is

 

3. Bad players

 

etc.

 

 

The decision bioware has made has kept this kind of attitude from the game. If you want to see someone logs ask them, they might be willing to share it, if you are ain a guild or you can show you will be respectful to them.

 

If neither of them exist then you don't need them.

Edited March 13, 2012 by ScarletBlaze

[MasterKayote]

But Ret, it's quite simple (and has been pointed out to you many times whether you choose to accept it or not) - with a Personal Parse-able Log you will have the ability to analyze and optimize your performance.

 

You will also have the ability to find like-minded individuals where your group can require parses to be shared on all runs.

 

So what is your problem?

 

Because giving "arguments" using irrelevant points for features theyre already getting makes them sound like they have a better case.

 

In truth, this isnt a fight for combat logs or to be able to parse data for a fight (thats coming) ... its a fight for Recount. Damn the consequences!

 

Plain and simple.

Edited March 13, 2012 by MasterKayote

[pyrobot]

I'm for combat logs and I agree with lollermittens. The people who are against combat logs, are probably against it because they don't want to be criticized for the way they play their class, which is kind of a load of crap. This is an MMO, and a lot of content involves each player interacting with others, and all players should do their best to make it as enjoyable of an engagement as possible. That being said, if you are under performing, you are taking fun away from others. There is no other way to look at it, if you want to do ops, you need to be playing on par or better than everyone else, especially if you intend on doing the new hard and nightmare modes, there is absolutely no reason to not have a combat log. Again, the point that "story mode" has been put into the game is enough for those against combat logs. If story mode is going to become easier than current normal modes, then you don't have to worry about it, and can run the new op once a week to enjoy the story and get a little gear, that's fine. The rest of us though, would like to be able to identify when op members mess up, or under perform, so that we may help them, or boot them from the group. While the latter option is my least favorite, it all comes down to the fact that if you suck, you suck and shouldn't be ruining the fun of others, that is what story mode is for. I like BioWare's approach to making this into a casually approachable game, but if there is going to be content for more serious players, then they need to supplement us with the tools, or allow us to make our own (addons) and let us require our guild members to use it if they want to run ops.

 

Also, I realize that the upcoming combat log will be implemented for us to see how we our doing, but do you think it will really stop guilds or pug groups from booting people because they under perform? Honestly I won't be surprised if guild's require you to alt+tab or log out of the game to view your combat logs for a wipe attempt, and then kick you if you are performing terribly, so why impede us?