Tracer missile idiots

[McGarnagle]

You're right.

 

Tracer missle and powershot are our most powerful moves, especially when paired with wearing 2 peices of pve armor that give powershot and tracer missle an extra 15% chance to crit, so ur roughly 50% of the time critting with it, its like why use any other move. railshot doesnt even crit for as much as tracer missle can almost normally hit for. explosive dart sucks, heat seeker missles are obviously the best move, fusion missle rules for group dmg but for single dps blows. we have a lack of moves to use, missle blast costs 25 heat and hits half as hard as tracer missle does.

 

What else can we do? Power shot sucks because your 2nd gun default has 60% accuracy, so it misses a lot on tanks, and in general.

 

Fusion missile does not blow for single target. It does more damage on a single target than tracer missile. The huge issue with fusion missile is the amount of heat it creates (it is a horrible damage per heat ability). Used with thermal sensor override it's a must use attack, even vs. 1 enemy (like a boss fight). Of course that changes it to an attack that can only be used once every 2 minutes, but still a useful and powerful attack. Even against a single enemy. It should only be used alone (not with tso) vs. groups.

Edited March 10, 2012 by McGarnagle

[McGarnagle]

You know what would fix all of this stupid whining? Have power shot and tracer do the same things (they are already pretty much the same base damage, just give power shot the procs and buffs). Give both a short cooldown so arsenal mercs would have to rotate them.

 

The funny thing is, this would actually buff mercs (no longer would interrupts be a show stopper) while the whiners think they got their tracer nerf.

 

In the end I am amazed at how many people think their class is somehow more difficult. All the dps classes are a breeze. They all pretty much have rotations and procs. Go through the rotation and watch for procs. Sure, there is more too it than that (including for mercs), but overall dps classes are easy to play across the board. The whole idea that mercs can hit one button over and over again vs. all the other classes that can pretty much do that with 3 (oh no, 2 more buttons!!!! How could anyone cope!) is a laughable argument. All dps classes can be turned into easy more for mediocre damage. Hitting a 3 button rotation vs. 1 button over and over again is not exactly some huge difference.

Edited March 10, 2012 by McGarnagle

[Vhaelan]

I don't have an issue with well played mercs. It's the ones that are terribad players yet can still spam a one button win. I can always tell these guys as I'm blazing at full speed straight at them on my vanguard, . These guys end up dead very quickly when you get on em. But left alone, it's a one button win, no single skill should debuff and do that much damage. Hopefully in 1.2 it's tracer spamming that gets the nerf that's coming for BH, thus forcing the terribad players to go away cause it isn't easy mode anymore. I simply can't wait!!

 

You shouldn't have an issue with the "terribad" players then, I mean you can spot them and as soon as you do they're toast with your cryo grenade/hib/ ion pulse/stockstrike/ interupt their next attempted spam and watch them stand there doing nothing while I pummle them for 4 seconds. So as it only takes 4 seconds to take them down, I don't see the point in complaining. Take 4 seconds out of your WZ OPvP and get a free kill and on average 15k damage. Rinse and Repeat when you see them and Job done!

[inquisitorshadow]

Tracer missile x3

Heatseeking missile

Unload if proced

Tracer missile x2

Rail shot

Unload if proced or tracer missile if not

Rapid shots whenever I need to bleed heat

 

There is a lot of tracer missiles in there due to the requirement of 5 full heatsigs to max out our rail shot damage (rather than just 3 to max out heatseeker missile.

 

I spend more time than I'd like bent over, and the cast time for tm often allows my pvp opponents to easily get out of los long before I can run through my rotation.

[Mapex]

The problem with TM spam has nothing to do with the players, as pointed out. It's an issue with the Arsenal tree as a whole. Tracer Missile spam causes a feedback loop that allows for some insane and difficult to combat burst damage during levels 10-49 (and sucks at 50 from what I've seen).

 

Tracer Missile is a casted, no cooldown high damage attack. That's already somewhat of a problem because "no cooldown" and "high damage" should not be in the same tooltip and because the 1.5 second cast helps mitigate some of the ability's Heat cost (you can lose 5 to 10 Heat from a previous Tracer Missile while casting the next one).

 

Where it gets messy is that Tracer Missile adds a stacking armor debuff (Heat Signatures). Heat Signatures enabling Rail Shot is a-okay but the stacking armor debuff means successive Tracer Missiles do even MORE damage. You have no reason to use many of your abilities because TM already hits harder than most and is equally strengthened by these Heat Signatures.

 

Finally, Tracer Missile via further talents also enables Tracer Lock buffs which increase the damage of your next Rail Shot by a significant amount. Rail Shot is enabled and gains armor pen via Heat Sigs and gains extra damage from Tracer Locks, both of which are procced via Tracer Missile. You have to be stupid if you aren't spamming Tracer Missile.

 

Long story short, to fix the problems of a) only requiring one ability to own face for a majority of the leveling game and b) the boredom caused by having only one attack to cast, they need to make some of the following changes:

 

1) Move Tracer Lock to Power Shot. One attack should not give you all the buffs/debuffs you need as it both makes for boring gameplay but also is dangerous in PvP as being locked out of that one attack destroys your entire rotation. By moving Tracer Locks to Power Shot, you now have two abilities to weave together to maximize Rail Shot damage, allowing for somewhat complicated juggling act.

 

2) Make TM a higher damage, non-spammable attack. Jango's backpack nuke was a powerful missile that took a veteran Jedi Knight off his feet, so the ability in game should reflect the power of this attack. This gives Arsenal a reason to use Power Shot more frequently. The Heat Signatures from TM would need to be tweaked so they are still somewhat easy to maintain and stack now that TM has a cooldown.

[silvershadows]

if they are jealous they should reroll merc and realize that arsenal is not a pvp god by any means.

 

This.

 

Also anyone who just casts tracer missile isn't going to be even mediocre, they're going to be terrible. LOS, interrupts, etc, a person casting tracer over and over and using nothing else isn't even going to do good damage since tracer isn't even remotely close to our highest damage ability.

 

My typical pvp "rotation", which changes according to situation is 2x tracer missile, rail shot, heatseeker, unload - target dead. Add electro dart, my relic/adrenal, rocket punch, jet boost, shield and other self-buffs, and all tracer becomes is my fight opener. If a fight lasts long enough, I'll cast a third or fourth tracer to refresh the buff, but that's about it.

 

All the haters should take care to notice there is less tracer casts than anything else in there.

[DinnerYeti]

Wrong.

 

Top damage.

 

I have done this exact same thing in BGs on my merc. Sit back, Spam 1 button, Profit.

[Brad_Pitt]

Wrong.

 

Top damage.

 

I have done this exact same thing in BGs on my merc. Sit back, Spam 1 button, Profit.

 

This^

Quite simply put and i love it!.

 

 

This.

 

Also anyone who just casts tracer missile isn't going to be even mediocre, they're going to be terrible. LOS, interrupts, etc, a person casting tracer over and over and using nothing else isn't even going to do good damage since tracer isn't even remotely close to our highest damage ability.

 

My typical pvp "rotation", which changes according to situation is 2x tracer missile, rail shot, heatseeker, unload - target dead. Add electro dart, my relic/adrenal, rocket punch, jet boost, shield and other self-buffs, and all tracer becomes is my fight opener. If a fight lasts long enough, I'll cast a third or fourth tracer to refresh the buff, but that's about it.

 

All the haters should take care to notice there is less tracer casts than anything else in there.

 

 

 

my stats

 

 

(15% bonus crit chance from PvE wearing 2 pieces bonus)

(40% crit chance +15%bonus)

Tracer missle(1800-1860)

Multiplier 75%

 

Computations for an average DPS gain.

1800 * 55% * 75% = an average of 742DPS added

1860 * 55% * 75% = an average of 767DPS added

 

Activation speed for me 15%

1.5 * (100%-15%) = 1.275 cast time per tracer missle, roughly 3 tracer missles per 4 seconds

or 9 tracer missles per 12 seconds, to convert to a scale we can safely use to calculate heat costs

 

Heat cost = 16(with skill tree points)

 

 

Now lets calculate average heat cost

using 3 tracer missles in a row starting from 0 heat

 

3num of casts * 16heat cost - (1.275seconds per cast * 3number of casts * 5 heat vented per second) (8 * 55% chance of happening) (can happen every 3 seconds)

 

=48 - (19.125) - (8, assuming critting once in the 3 second window of the 3 casts)

= 20.875 heat used to dish out about (((1800+742) + (1860 + 767))/2) *3 = 7,753 average damage, assuming no misses, 1 crit, but in reality they could all be crits.

 

So you say tracer missle spam cannot kill someone? thats only 3.825 seconds to deal 7,753 damage, and im not even counting the progressive armor debuff, then we open up on you with heat seeking missles for around 2k-3900 dmg(1.5seconds since it an instnat move

 

so if you're not a tank

 

you just took 7753 + heatseekers average (2k + 3.9k) /2 = 10,703 damage

in 5.325 seconds.

 

casts 4 abilities to do that much, and its all ranged.

 

 

now if you throw in a railshot (1.5s instant) and a fusion missle(1.3 to cast) into this mix, your dead in less than

 

9 seconds

 

8.125 to be exact.

 

railshot is a great follow up and so is fusion missle, but fusion missle should be used as a started primarily. shoot it, use rapid shots once, then use 3 tracer missles, heat seekers, railshot = dead

Edited March 12, 2012 by Brad_Pitt

[Mursy]

IF you don't want to get hit by my tracer missile 5 times before feeling heat seeker then do something to stop it other than whining about it being spam cause that aint gonna deter me. You have options. Use them.

 

As for those of you who say it shows no skill to use tracer, take it to the devs. They made the class what it is. Call me a 'baddie' or say nothing its all the same to me. I will play a merc and use the tools I have, unrepentantly. I expect you to do the same with whatever class you choose.

 

Cheers!

[Yazule]

@Yazule: You are obviously confused, I understand completely why you use it. It is the staple of the class, and it maximizes your dps. But because it is simple (cheesey even?) is why people mock the arsenal merc. If I was running that spec, I would do the same, because it is the way it was designed.

 

I am not confused at all, the fact that you understand is great, it is the 98% of the qq'ers that are confused AND don't understand the class

 

I am arsenal for raiding, for pvp i would choose a bg/arsenal or bg/pyro hybrid. I choose my build for the betterment of the guild and people I am playing with.

 

have a 50 sorc now and zomg why people are whining about BH is completely beyond me.

 

Sorc is way more functional than BH, but because BH is SO one dimensional (pew pew) it makes for a very simple rotation... if I had to work as hard on my BH for just dps as I do for my sorc for heals/dps/cc/interrupts/mobility then THAT would be unbalanced.

[DarthBloodloss]

Activation speed for me 15%

1.5 * (100%-15%) = 1.275 cast time per tracer missle, roughly 3 tracer missles per 4 seconds

 

I think you need to recalculate the entire equation. Alacrity doesn't speed up the global cooldown.

 

railshot is a great follow up and so is fusion missle, but fusion missle should be used as a started primarily. shoot it, use rapid shots once, then use 3 tracer missles, heat seekers, railshot = dead

 

Fusion/Rapid/Tracerx3/Heatseeker/Railshot = not dead

 

That rotation isn't going to kill someone, and also why use Rapid shot in PvP? Especially if you are going to kill them 5 attacks later.

[VoidJustice]

Wrong.

 

Top damage.

 

I have done this exact same thing in BGs on my merc. Sit back, Spam 1 button, Profit.

 

Do you guys use different fingers to hit the Tracer button or do you just click it. I want to understand the complexities but, they overwhelm me. I get lost somewhere around Tracer, then tracer, then tracer followed by tracer and the... something then tracer again... so confused.

Edited March 12, 2012 by VoidJustice

[silvershadows]

Nowhere did I say that spamming tracer won't kill someone.

 

I said it isn't the OPTIMAL way to kill someone.

 

Tracer spam is not burst damage, burst damage is king in pvp, burst is the FOLLOWUPS to tracer - that'd be those 2 instant casts we have that build off of tracer plus unload.

 

Just because you *can* kill people with tracer spam doesn't mean you *should.* Just because some people are too stupid to LOS or interrupt you doesn't mean everyone will be.

 

Is it funny to kill someone with tracer spam? Especially someone who's been whining at you the whole game because you're an arsenal merc? Sure. Doesn't make it the best way to kill someone, just the silliest.

Edited March 12, 2012 by silvershadows

[DenitharPurloin]

By saying that mercenaries that use tracer missile are just spammers you just show that you never played that class, or your brain simply didn't get that stuff allright.

 

I personally have only lvl 30 merc, but I rolled it because i love tracer missile spam.

 

Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

 

To say I am a just a spammer means you don't get it that I picked my class because I love spamming.

 

Did I get that right?

 

 

Don't get me wrong, pick a class and play it because you have fun. Nerf/don't nerf I just couldn't care less. It is just that your post makes you sound like a moron. lol

Edited March 12, 2012 by DenitharPurloin

[Yazule]

I think you need to recalculate the entire equation. Alacrity doesn't speed up the global cooldown.

.

 

There is no GCD on TM, GCD applies to insta casts only, chaneled and timed cast abilities do not share a GCD... so alacrity helps both TM and unload, but not HS or RS

[Pwnyride]

Honestly i love the TM missle spammers.

 

Start casting - I electro dart

they start casting again Quell.....they stand there for 4 secs or auto attack, usually i get jet boosted.

3rd cast attempt - Grapple

i might get rocket punch knocked back or an electrodart to give them time to get some distance.

4th cast im out of stun- Jet charge, if playing shieldtech hybrid. By this time quell is back up.

And all of this time im flamebursting railshoting and rocketpunching their face in. All uninterruptable.

My flameburst are around 2k crit with a semi significant dot equivalating (pyrospecd) more over all dmg than a basic non 5 heat sig TM.

I think that Im the broken one.

 

I SWEAR, the main reason people notice the TM spamming is because of the unique annoying *** noise it makes. Otherwise people wouldnt notice it. The main abilites i notice in games are TM, FL, and Voltic slash b/c of the unique noises and animations they make and thats why those abilities are picked out and called out as being "spammed"

 

If u see a TM spammer just interupt them.. Game over they lose. They can do very little against your ability to dmg them, but you can do a whole lot against their ability to dmg you.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Pwnyride

[Yazule]

Honestly i love the TM missle spammers.

 

Start casting - I electro dart

they start casting again Quell.....they stand there for 4 secs or auto attack, usually i get jet boosted.

3rd cast attempt - Grapple

i might get rocket punch knocked back or an electrodart to give them time to get some distance.

4th cast im out of stun- Jet charge, if playing shieldtech hybrid. By this time quell is back up.

And all of this time im flamebursting railshoting and rocketpunching their face in. All uninterruptable.

My flameburst are around 2k crit with a semi significant dot equivalating (pyrospecd) more over all dmg than a basic non 5 heat sig TM.

I think that Im the broken one.

 

I SWEAR, the main reason people notice the TM spamming is because of the unique annoying *** noise it makes. Otherwise people wouldnt notice it. The main abilites i notice in games are TM, FL, and Voltic slash b/c of the unique noises and animations they make and thats why those abilities are picked out and called out as being "spammed"

 

If u see a TM spammer just interupt them.. Game over they lose. They can do very little against your ability to dmg them, but you can do a whole lot against their ability to dmg you.

 

i love it when people think i am a TM spammer and I change rotations.... TM spammers have made my life easier because people interrrupt and then laugh... while i pummel them (or put up defenses and then pummel them)

[Pwnyride]

There is no GCD on TM, GCD applies to insta casts only, chaneled and timed cast abilities do not share a GCD... so alacrity helps both TM and unload, but not HS or RS

 

Technically there is a GCD on TM, and you would only notice it if someone interrupted it instantly because there's still a short amount of time until you are able to powershot or use whatever your back-up ability is, but you are correct that if alacrity lowers the cast time of an ability to lower than the standard GCD then the GCD is adapted to allow the new cast time of that individual ability only.

[Yazule]

Technically there is a GCD on TM, and you would only notice it if someone interrupted it instantly because there's still a short amount of time until you are able to powershot or use whatever your back-up ability is, but you are correct that if alacrity lowers the cast time of an ability to lower than the standard GCD then the GCD is adapted to allow the new cast time of that individual ability only.

 

firstly i do not use alacrity anymore for dps.. but

 

when i had the stat i could cast Tm followed by TM and the time between casts was less than 1.5 seconds.. there is even a video from beta days that shows it clearly if you go to youtube and look for it.

 

there ARE animation issues where animations slow play even though the button is "clickable" (i dont click, i mash) ... it is one of the issues they are working on for commando atm, animation lag i call it.

 

I do not know if PS is on GCD, honestly I dont use it much, but it is on my bars for when i am interrupted and i have never noticed that I could not cast it when interrupted. i will pay more attention, it may be another bug but I garuntee if you get alacrity you can cast TM back to back with less than 1.5 sec between.

[Pwnyride]

I garuntee if you get alacrity you can cast TM back to back with less than 1.5 sec between.

 

I wasnt disagreeing with you here. I know that TMs can be lower than 1.5 seconds, I was just saying that if u begin casting one and get interuptted at .3 seconds of you still have about 1 second b4 u can cast something else. Its not very noticble but its there, its only about the time it takes for ur brain to realize that you were interupted. Which would indicate that there is still a GCD, it has just been lowered to allow faster casting due to alacrity

Edited March 12, 2012 by Pwnyride

[Yazule]

I wasnt disagreeing with you here. I know that TMs can be lower than 1.5 seconds, I was just saying that if u begin casting one and get interuptted at .3 seconds of you still have about 1 second b4 u can cast something else. Its not very noticble but its there, its only about the time it takes for ur brain to realize that you were interupted. Which would indicate that there is still a GCD, it has just been lowered to allow faster casting due to alacrity

 

never noticed it, i will take a look dueling with a guildie tonight,

 

that would not be the GCD system though, which is only associated with insta casts, might be a bug i never noticed, or some other mechanic.

[Mrip]

Honestly i love the TM missle spammers.

 

Start casting - I electro dart

they start casting again Quell.....they stand there for 4 secs or auto attack, usually i get jet boosted.

3rd cast attempt - Grapple

i might get rocket punch knocked back or an electrodart to give them time to get some distance.

4th cast im out of stun- Jet charge, if playing shieldtech hybrid. By this time quell is back up.

And all of this time im flamebursting railshoting and rocketpunching their face in. All uninterruptable.

My flameburst are around 2k crit with a semi significant dot equivalating (pyrospecd) more over all dmg than a basic non 5 heat sig TM.

I think that Im the broken one.

 

I SWEAR, the main reason people notice the TM spamming is because of the unique annoying *** noise it makes. Otherwise people wouldnt notice it. The main abilites i notice in games are TM, FL, and Voltic slash b/c of the unique noises and animations they make and thats why those abilities are picked out and called out as being "spammed"

 

If u see a TM spammer just interupt them.. Game over they lose. They can do very little against your ability to dmg them, but you can do a whole lot against their ability to dmg you.

 

You do realize that a merc who goes pyro won't have jet charge, quell, or flame burst and their rail shot does a lot less damage...

[Pwnyride]

You do realize that a merc who goes pyro won't have jet charge, quell, or flame burst and their rail shot does a lot less damage...

 

And I hope you realize that a merc that goes any spec will not have these abilities as they are powertech only abilities.

 

I was just using an example of how easily a player whom does nothing but spam Tracermissle can easily be shutdown and the reasons that I believe that the powertech class is actually alot more OP than an arsenal Merc. But not only just a PT, you can do the same thing using an assassin and just replace the ability names. At least a sin doesnt have to be inside 4m to interupt. They dont have a jetcharge but they have force speed and spike.

 

The only time ive ever seen a Arsenal merc be even remotely potent using only TM was when playing against players that are just as bad if not worse than they are.

 

If anything I think Mercs need a change that allows them to be viable not relying on a single ability that is easily chain interrupted by a player. Because for any of the other Arsenal abilities to do any remote dmg, Multiple tracer missles have to be cast, and If you interrupt them, the Merc just becomes an easy kill with wet noodle abilities. They lack an good interrupt, escape ability, and end up being more squishy than a cloth wearing sorc. Their defensive CDs are almost laughable.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Pwnyride

[DarthBloodloss]

Classes that can constantly interrupt are a thorn in your side but that doesn't mean that you are helpless.

 

During Huttball I'm usually standing somewhere near an edge. Either near the large pits by each endzone, or up on a platform or walkway of some sort. Rocket Punch KB and Jet Boost KB pretty much let you have infinite KB vs just 1 person.

 

If someone is on me and I don't want to go 1 on 1, then I'll just KB and pummel them while they walk around to come back up. If I have more health (ie they are already injured), I should be able to solo anyone and it isn't an issue.

 

In Voidstar and Alderon you are more susceptible to interrupts but you can always go into tank mode until someone realizes you need help. Jet Boost / Shield / Kolto Overload / Stun / Power Surge + Rapid Scan / PvP Medpack - that can buy you enough time for people to realize there is a Melee rampaging around in your group's area.

[Pwnyride]

Classes that can constantly interrupt are a thorn in your side but that doesn't mean that you are helpless.

 

During Huttball I'm usually standing somewhere near an edge. Either near the large pits by each endzone, or up on a platform or walkway of some sort. Rocket Punch KB and Jet Boost KB pretty much let you have infinite KB vs just 1 person.

 

If someone is on me and I don't want to go 1 on 1, then I'll just KB and pummel them while they walk around to come back up. If I have more health (ie they are already injured), I should be able to solo anyone and it isn't an issue.

 

In Voidstar and Alderon you are more susceptible to interrupts but you can always go into tank mode until someone realizes you need help. Jet Boost / Shield / Kolto Overload / Stun / Power Surge + Rapid Scan / PvP Medpack - that can buy you enough time for people to realize there is a Melee rampaging around in your group's area.

 

 

But see, you are obviously a player who has a decent lvl of skill and are therefore exempt from the "Players who suck and only spam TM are OP" discussion