Laufton Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 *** are you talking about, did you even read any thing I wrote or are you to frustrated with the fact that the primary Colors are iconic. I have given prime examples and nothing you have said clearly justifies it other than pointing a finger at, well this Sith lord had this or this guy did it. I gave good enough reasons why it should be restricted and most of you who argue for it clearly state that you don't care about the core fundamentals of the two sides but play the I want card. A lot of you claim to want the colors to RP but really do you? All you are doing is saying I want everyone to be traditional. I want everyone to dress and use everything I deem "core" or "Iconic". Yet you seem to not realize that this is nothing but your opinion. You have no more lore to back it up then the opposition and in a conversation like this there are only two forms of currency. Lore and Logic. Neither of which you are using. And for the record claiming that your reasons are good enough does not make it so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abataamala Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Just as long as my sniper rifle burns a hole through the enemy'ss chest, I don't care what color it is. My point, exactly! My sniper, mercenary, commando and scoundrel also concur. I've got a solution for folks who this matters to tho'...go into your computer's control panel and under your graphic card's settings, turn the saturation down to zero. VOILA! All the lightsabres and blaster bolts are exactly the same color! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laufton Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 You said enough already to show that you clearly don't know jack, by all means be that Sith. You're nothing but hostile. By all means continue to yell and scream and believe that makes you right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakachan Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 But up until this change, that was because of the restrictions. The Jedi you saw with Red sabers was because the game didn't allow them to use green. After the change, these same people can now switch to the correct color if they want. No, I talk about qel-droma's lightsaber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asturias Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) All you are doing is saying I want everyone to be traditional. I want everyone to dress and use everything I deem "core" or "Iconic". Yet you seem to not realize that this is nothing but your opinion. You have no more lore to back it up then the opposition and in a conversation like this there are only two forms of currency. Lore and Logic. Neither of which you are using. And for the record claiming that your reasons are good enough does not make it so. Its not my opinion its the core of Star Wars and lack of knowledge which people have in the traditional setting that GL provided with his movies. The EU is a extended version of those movies and should not be altered because people want to it breaks it. Edited March 9, 2012 by Asturias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asturias Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Asturias, Thank you for taking the time to research the info and put up this great post. We need more people like you ! Thank you and your welcome! Edited March 9, 2012 by Asturias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asturias Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 You're nothing but hostile. By all means continue to yell and scream and believe that makes you right. I am not being hostile by any means just pointing facts, have a nice day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Scythe Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Your right but a synthetic crystal when fused with Dark Side energy turned red. Red would be the color of RAGE and not peace or nobility. Wrong Luke Skywalker created a red synthetic crystal for his sister in one of the books. Seems that even a Jedi can create a red synthetic crystal. OMG you mean Lukes sister a Jedi used a red crystal in the books after the movies? OMG yes she did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asturias Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Wrong Luke Skywalker created a red synthetic crystal for his sister in one of the books. Seems that even a Jedi can create a red synthetic crystal. OMG you mean Lukes sister a Jedi used a red crystal in the books after the movies? OMG yes she did! Your talking about Luke Skywalker here, really. The most powerful force user to ever exist and not to mention one of a very select few that ever crossed over to the dark side and reverted back to the light. I would believe Luke could do anything than what your rag tag Jedi character could. Not to mention he did change the ways of how the Jedi traditionally did things *(I.E. Jedi can Marry). Edited March 9, 2012 by Asturias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulself Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 personally when i play i tend to act as if i was the person in that situation so most my character end up being lightside but hate that i end up having to use a blue or green saber and can't use a red saber (tho personally if i could get a purple crystal at level 10 and up all my people would be using purple) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimAce Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Your talking about Luke Skywalker here, really. The most powerful force user to ever exist and not to mention one of a very select few that ever crossed over to the dark side and reverted back to the light. I would believe Luke could do anything than what your rag tag Jedi character could. Not to mention he did change the ways of how the Jedi traditionally did things *(I.E. Jedi can Marry). Blind speculation does your argument zero credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asturias Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Blind speculation does your argument zero credit. Its not blind speculation its fact, go read the books/series for yourself. You should be saying that qoute to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimAce Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Its not blind speculation its fact, go read the books/series for yourself. You should be saying that qoute to yourself. Starting a sentance with 'I would believe' doesn't make it factual, it makes it speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Scythe Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 My arguement is not about Light side/dark side choice but that the primary colors that have been established by the movies and countless other media should be exclusive to that faction. The big three need to be exclusive and I don't have a problem with a light sided sith using a Red color saber because lets face it a light sided sith is not really good you just take a different approach to handleing things. I am curious how you feel about more than 2 Sith running around the universe at 1 time? Isn't the rule of 2 established in OT lore and iconic? If you want to be true to the look of the movies there can only be two Sith! There are many examples of exceptions in EU amongst Jedi using red crystals and Sith using colors other than red. This is an EU game. EU lore is very relevant to the game. You choosing to ignore EU because you want OT is wrong. Will post this again: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber "Lightsabers depicted in the first two released films, A New Hope and Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, had blades that were colored either blue (for the Jedi) or red (for the Sith). This color difference was a decision during post-production when the lightsaber blades were being rotoscoped, as the original blades were simply white. In Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi, Luke Skywalker's newly-constructed lightsaber was colored blue during the initial editing of the film, and appears so in both an early movie trailer and the official theatrical posters, but in the final film, it was ultimately colored green in order to better stand out against the blue sky of Tatooine in outdoor scenes. It also appeared as green in re-release posters. " Don't get me wrong the traditional look is very cool looking however EU lore supports choice. Lucas Arts approves/disapproves all EU canon. I would like to know how much input George Lucas has in regards to EU. Anyone have a source to the quote where George said colors do not matter by chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartanik Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Synthetic Crystals, it’s a Sith Thang! Though synthetic crystals were ordinarily unsuitable for use in light sabers, the Sith discovered that they could create synth-crystals that were energized, magnetized, and modified with the power of the dark side of the Force in special furnaces, causing the crystal to glow in harmonic vibration. As a result of their artificial origins, synthetic crystals created more powerful light saber blades and could be more easily augmented. Also, their common usage by Sith and other Darksiders after this discovery caused synthetic crystals to become something of a staple among such groups, and their use among Jedi was strongly discouraged. Most synthetic crystals were red, a result of the forging process, and oftentimes the initiate's intentional manipulations, as most individuals who utilized synthetic crystals were Darksiders. The red-hued light saber blades generated by such crystals were often nicknamed "bloodshine blades". However, synth-crystals could be made in any color, requiring only slight adjustments of the creation process and special manipulations through the Force during the forging. Jedi frowned on the use of synthetic crystals in lightsabers, most individuals who utilized colors other than red were Darksiders looking to hide their affiliations 1. But Exar Kun had a blue light saber! Explanation: The lightsaber of Jedi Knight Exar Kun was a device that was initially created to produce a single beam of blue-white energy. However, upon his ascension to Dark Lord of the Sith, Kun redesigned his lightsaber based on instructions hidden within an antiquated Sith holocron. The finished product was a double-bladed weapon imbued with dark side energy, from which sapphire blades materialized up to 1.5 meters from either end of the hilt. (Exar Kun had learned long lost secrets from a holocron that forged the look but it is a synthetically made crystal infused with the dark side of the force.) A rarity your character is not significant enough to overshadow and take away the iconic look of this character. 2. But Anakin used his Blue Light Saber in EP3! Explanation: Anakin just turned to the Dark Side of the Force and was immediately sent to kill the remaining separatist and exterminate the Jedi order. He did not have time, I repeat he did not have time to make a Synthetic Crystal. (What you see in the movies and a design restriction in a video game is two different things. There is a reason why these three were restricted because BioWARE knows they are the iconic colors of the two factions.) 3. But Mace Windu had a purple colored crystal! In the Prequel Trilogy, Mace Windu's unique purple lightsaber was a functional change but Samuel L. Jackson, who played Windu, asked for a lightsaber to match his favorite color, and the distinct shade helped his character stand out on the battlefield from the red, blue, and green of the other lightsabers. A rarity, nuff said! Jedi used natural crystals! According to The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force, lightsaber colors originally indicated a Jedi's role in the Order. For example, Jedi Consulars, who focused on non-violence, carried green lightsabers to symbolize peace. Jedi Guardians, on the other hand, carried blue lightsabers as a symbol of uniformity and solidarity. The lack of lightsaber color variation in the movies is a lack of colored crystals. According to Jedi vs. Sith, the Empire (Past/Present/Future) quarantined or destroyed many sources of lightsaber crystals. This left the Jedi with mostly Ilum crystals, which can only produce green or blue blades. Conclusion Red/Blue/Green needs to be restricted to their respective factions. The symbols of the big three colors are iconic to the faction which they have been displayed upon. Posters, movies, books, cartoons, toys and comics is proof enough that Red is the faction color of the Sith, while Blue/Green is the faction color of the Jedi, regardless of a select few iconic characters. Flame away! well I understand this argument i realy do, but i dont agree with it. Imo color crystals shouldnt be restricted at all. For several reasons. first hurts personal roleplay. Second in anyother star wars games, color crystals were never a restriction. The only ones i remember was in KOTOR 1 with 2 crystals that were very rare. For instance the exar kun and the purple color crystals arguments you present are flawed. from a role playing perspective even, what if in my character i roleplay that i get the know how to make a blue saber as exar kun did me being dark side toon?! or that i found a rarety of a purple crystal?! Also anakin being darkside, and be able to use a saber with blue crystal proves that any person dark or light side can use any lightsaber whatso ever. he didnt had time to make a red one, irrelevant he could use the blue saber none the less. I respect your arguments i realy do, but this being a cosmetic option, it would be a mistake a big one for bioware to restrict that much. For instance from your reasoning, a dark jedi knight couldnt use Blue or green, and if the red crystals were all on empire side, he would use what? a Vibrosword? or only yelow and orange? what a hell... i want to be dark jedi and use a blue, why i cant?, what i get from the lore, is the sith prefer to use red sabers, and the jedi prefer not to, doenst mean they actualy couldnt. My point is you cant please everybody, ever. If there is no restrictions you can costumize your toon the way you want and roleplay the way you want, and that is important, its a big part of any good RPG. That said i understand the vendors will be only until 1.2, so i recon those crystals will not be easy to get after that, in that i agree with this, the cyan, purple, magenta and white colors, and others that might come in the future ( im thinking veridian, or bronze) shouldnt be acessible trough vendors at all. That is the thing, regardless of being light sided/dark sided, if your faction is being a Sith than your character was brought up in the beliefs that a synthetic crystal is more powerful. A light sided Sith is not necessarily pure light side, you just choose to take a different approach to handling things. I do believe that a light sided Sith should be able to equip a Red Saber but a Dark Jedi should not. yep pretty much my thought. I want to have my inquisitor as light side, and im stucked to use blue, green, or any other color, but not red... it doenst make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw_dragon Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Agree on the main colors. Good post OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asturias Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Starting a sentance with 'I would believe' doesn't make it factual, it makes it speculation. Dude your grasping at straws here! Its fact Luke Skywalker was the greatest Force user to ever exist. It took him only six years to master the ways of the Force. He became the ultimate combative along with manipulating the Force Dark Side or Light Side. He is GL baby and no character in the EU will ever compare to Luke Skywalker the original Jedi icon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimAce Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Lucas' primary concern is stuff that directly effects the canon and lore of the films. The further you get away from that lore the more leeway there is for creative licence. The EU has become such a monster that it's impossible to keep track of sources, which is why a lot of EU canon is becoming increasingly contradictory. That said, though, freedom of choice regarding lightsaber colours has never been disputed. Works have been released that retcon certain information (for example the steady decline of less 'traditional' lightsaber colours after the Ruusan Reformation) but there's never been a direct dispute of the freedom of lightsaber colour choice. Dude your grasping at straws here! Its fact Luke Skywalker was the greatest Force user to ever exist. It took him only six years to master the ways of the Force. He became the ultimate combative along with manipulating the Force Dark Side or Light Side. He is GL baby and no character in the EU will ever compare to Luke Skywalker the original Jedi icon. That's not the bit I'm disputing, to clarify. I'm disputing "I would believe Luke could do anything than what your rag tag Jedi character could" in regards to creating a red saber for Leia. He learned how to create synthetic crystals from writings by Obi-Wan, after all, which means that Obi-Wan at least knew how to create them, if he didn't at some point create one himself. Edited March 9, 2012 by GrimAce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asturias Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 I am curious how you feel about more than 2 Sith running around the universe at 1 time? Isn't the rule of 2 established in OT lore and iconic? If you want to be true to the look of the movies there can only be two Sith! There are many examples of exceptions in EU amongst Jedi using red crystals and Sith using colors other than red. This is an EU game. EU lore is very relevant to the game. You choosing to ignore EU because you want OT is wrong. Will post this again: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber "Lightsabers depicted in the first two released films, A New Hope and Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, had blades that were colored either blue (for the Jedi) or red (for the Sith). This color difference was a decision during post-production when the lightsaber blades were being rotoscoped, as the original blades were simply white. In Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi, Luke Skywalker's newly-constructed lightsaber was colored blue during the initial editing of the film, and appears so in both an early movie trailer and the official theatrical posters, but in the final film, it was ultimately colored green in order to better stand out against the blue sky of Tatooine in outdoor scenes. It also appeared as green in re-release posters. " Don't get me wrong the traditional look is very cool looking however EU lore supports choice. Lucas Arts approves/disapproves all EU canon. I would like to know how much input George Lucas has in regards to EU. Anyone have a source to the quote where George said colors do not matter by chance? I don't have a problem seeing more than two Sith running around, its a different time period! So whats your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrknight Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I dont see the problem i mean i cant pick the color of my saber , but if people want to have some colored crap on theirs what is the problem? Let everyone get their dream color , not like it get in my way , ic the big red names and that is the only color i care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethyriel Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 For any jedi or Sith the only way to really customize your weapon/make it look actually different is by changing color crystals.. so who cares about what was in the movies or books or whatever, I want to have the color crystal I want which is already heavily restricted by stats on endgame weapons, so I don't see a reason to restrict it any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terko_Koslah Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Hear, Hear!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosKirin Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Oh, this thread again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonimator Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I don't have a problem seeing more than two Sith running around, its a different time period! So whats your point? I don't have a problem seeing Jedi running around with red sabers, its a different time period! So whats your point? The LORE you keep citing fully supports a wide variety of colors on BOTH sides. TOR is firmly set in the EU, NOT in the movies. The EU, which existed long before the Prequels and the idea that green & blue were the only common Jedi colors and red was the predominant Sith color. The OT doesn't count for saber colors. No, it really doesn't. We see THREE saber-wielding Force-users in the OT: Luke Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Darth Vader. Red & blue was arbitrarily assigned in '76/'77 for ANH to help distinguish the white blades in combat. Someone probably thought "Red kinda seems evil, like blood... make Darth's blade red." (remember, back then 'Darth' was a name, not a title). That was it. It could've easily gone the other way, and Luke & Obi-Wan's sabers could've been red. Or they could've been yellow, like the saber on the first Obi-Wan action figure card-photo (or the Tatooine Luke and Bespin Fatigues Luke action figures). And Luke's saber in ROTJ was merely the result of a necessary color change. Even if they'd kept it blue, one could EASILY argue that Luke made his saber blue because that's the only color he knew--I doubt he'd make his blade red, the color of Vader's. Obi-Wan's instructions may only have accounted for a blue blade, as Obi-Wan's own saber--which Luke's was modeled after--had a blue blade. The EU that really got going in '91 very rightly ran with the idea that sabers could be different colors. WEG had outlined a lot of lightsaber details in their RPG books, and I don't think color specifics were outlined for colors. Why wouldn't there be more colors around, when there were more Jedi and Dark Jedi and Sith Lords? Bottom line is the LORE of Star Wars AS A WHOLE supports variety for saber colors across factions and alignments. If you want Saga-based restrictions, petition for a game set during the Clone Wars or Dark Times. And Luke may be the most powerful Jedi ever, but the stories we play in TOR tell us that WE are the most powerful/promising Jedi/Sith of our time, basically. It loses its luster when you have 100+ exceptional people online on the Fleet on a busy night, but the fact remains: our characters are meant to be extraordinary. BEYOND the norm that is the army of Jedi and Sith fighting in the Jedi Temple in the first trailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimAce Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Really excellent post, Toonimator. Bravo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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