eightohfive Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Using keyboard buttons to turn your character is like using the arrow keys to aim in an FPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dupela Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 seriously ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game-Hermit Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) If anyone can post a video of them clicking this fast I will personally build you a $6000 god-rig and deliver it to you wearing nothing but shoes and a Santa hat. I'm perfectly serious. Edited March 8, 2012 by Game-Hermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epus Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 If anyone can post a video of them clicking this fast I will personally build you a $6000 god-rig and deliver it to you wearing nothing but shoes and a Santa hat. I'm perfectly serious. Because TOR doesn't have a global cooldown or anything? Seriously, you can't compare SC to TOR when it comes to utility in the speed of doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eonz Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I don't see the big deal with clickers. I'm a clicker and I always get great stats... it could be that I'm extremely fast with the clicks and I know my rotations and I beat the global cooldown tenfold. Is the term "clicker" aimed towards people who are more slow or everyone who clicks in general? I can understand if its towards the slower clicking people because I know a few people like that and it annoys me to watch them play Proof of your success clicking versus a keybinder? Oh wait, there is no way to prove this using empirical data... there is no combat log or statistical meters, thus, your argument is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game-Hermit Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Because TOR doesn't have a global cooldown or anything? Seriously, you can't compare SC to TOR when it comes to utility in the speed of doing that. I don't remember ever saying you need to be a 300+ APM professional RTS player to play an MMO. I was using it as an example to show just how much faster hotkeys are compared to clicking. Edit: And it's a fact that clicking requires you to be watching your mouse pointer instead of the fight. Edited March 9, 2012 by Game-Hermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicen Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Practice makes perfect...A combination of clicking and keybinding is the best recipe for success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfmiolleh Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Practice makes perfect...A combination of clicking and keybinding is the best recipe for success. Yup yup I do what I want and nobody knows the difference with or without combat logs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game-Hermit Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Yup yup I do what I want and nobody knows the difference with or without combat logs. You're playing with baddies then. The difference is substantial and quite noticeable. Edit: Here's a practical example. I lost a duel yesterday that I never should have lost. I just came back to the game and I'm low level still. I normally click at low levels because because I'm gaining skills so fast that I'm constantly having to move stuff around and can never remember my hotkeys. I lost solely because I was clicking. The other guy was dancing around me and I couldn't keep track of his movements because every time I used a skill I had to look away from the fight. It also didn't help that your mouse can't be clicking skills and turning you at the same time so I was turning extra slow. He was behind me half the fight as a direct result of clicking. Because I wasn't using my hotkeys I was fighting at less than half my normal capacity. Edited March 9, 2012 by Game-Hermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfmiolleh Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 You're playing with baddies then. The difference is substantial and quite noticeable. Oh please. Were not talking Golf or Basketball. Many variables affect online games and what button I push or how I navigate are just a couple. No matter what anyone does there will be some other saying they are more pro based on how they chose to play. Calling people names or using slurs is usually the first indication that I am dealing with a self proclaimed professional that will always be right win or lose. Everyone will always play the way they enjoy and others will always enjoy feeling superior, it's all perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediElf Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 You're playing with baddies then. The difference is substantial and quite noticeable. Aww what a cuddly, community building, sentiment. >_> I click, and I keyboard, and I won't tell others which one is 'right'. Both are right, both work really well. Personally I'd rather play with a bunch of human player, people with personalty, people with unique ideas, people who want to have fun, and folks who just wanna get stuff done in The Old Republic.... Than an emotionless, flawless computer who feels nothing. ...but that's just me....and I don't judge players based on milliseconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maldy Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Clicker is fine. Theres also really fast clickers, and in this game there is no way you can bind all skills. Theres just too many. The only advatage you have at binding is that you can use skills and move at the same time. That can be useful in encounters and PvP, but if you're a skilled enough clicker you can do good enough to not make it a huge difference. In the end: play the game whoever you want. If you want to maximise your performance then you're gonna have to bind a few skills though (main combat ones). No, specially in this game clicking is bad! cus of lag/server problems/abillity delay such things, clicking will work against you. I wouldn't recoment pvping if ur clicking, u will do other players no good.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game-Hermit Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Oh please. Were not talking Golf or Basketball. Many variables affect online games and what button I push or how I navigate are just a couple. No matter what anyone does there will be some other saying they are more pro based on how they chose to play. Calling people names or using slurs is usually the first indication that I am dealing with a self proclaimed professional that will always be right win or lose. Everyone will always play the way they enjoy and others will always enjoy feeling superior, it's all perception. It's not a matter of personal taste. It's an objective fact that if you click (and hence keyboard turn) you cannot turn nearly as fast as if you were mouse turning. Does everyone you fight just stand in one place? If they're decent they'll be running around you and you won't be able to keep up because they turn several times faster than you. It's also an objective fact that unless you're some sort of human/fly hybrid you physically can't be looking at your mouse pointer and the fight at the same time. It's also an objective fact that professional gamers who are clickers do not exist. I haven't claimed anything that can't be measured and proven. Well, except maybe for the so-called "slur". It's pretty much common sense that people who can't spot massive differences between 2 people doing something are themselves bad at doing that thing though. Edit: Speaking of proven facts, let's meet up in-game. If you can keep your character facing me without using your mouse for a solid 20 seconds I will admit being wrong. My guess, however, is that you'll be facing me for about 5 of those seconds. Edited March 9, 2012 by Game-Hermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfVey Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 No matter how good you become at clicking, it's going to be less efficient since it doesn't rely on muscle memory. The fact that you need to move the mouse (from a different location on the screen each time) is by nature going to be slower than just pressing a key on the keyboard which doesn't require any attention. You can make it work, sure. Whatever your performance level is though, even if it's good or great, it'd be even better if you didn't. That's before even getting into the issue of the brief period where you can't turn your character quickly while moving the mouse to a button. How much of a handicap it is depends on what class you play, with it hurting melee characters performance the most. It's really no different than it being much faster to click one of my mouse buttons while in this browser window (which I have bound to previous page) than it is for someone else to move their mouse to the back button and click it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediElf Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 It's not a matter of personal taste. It's an objective fact that if you click (and hence keyboard turn) you cannot turn nearly as fast as if you were mouse turning. Does everyone you fight just stand in one place? If they're decent they'll be running around you and you won't be able to keep up because they turn several times faster than you. It's also an objective fact that unless you're some sort of human/fly hybrid you physically can't be looking at your mouse pointer and the fight at the same time. It's also an objective fact that professional gamers who are clickers do not exist. It's also an objective fact that people who can't spot massive differences between 2 people doing something are themselves bad at that thing. I haven't claimed anything that can't be measured and proven. Who cares? No really. Who cares? If you win in a raid you don't get a new car, or a pile of cash, or a free vacation, or something like that. This 'isn't' professional sports. It's a computer game. Did the boss fall over dead? Good! Then we all did our job. You want to split hairs, and rage, over milliseconds?! Then get out of my Raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game-Hermit Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Who cares? No really. Who cares? If you win in a raid you don't get a new car, or a pile of cash, or a free vacation, or something like that. This 'isn't' professional sports. It's a computer game. Did the boss fall over dead? Good! Then we all did our job. You want to split hairs, and rage, over milliseconds?! Then get out of my Raid. Personally I don't really care. If people want to suck that's more free kills for me. I just object to people claiming a banana and a Volkswagen are the same thing when in reality they couldn't be more different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisra Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 The issue is less with clicking and more with keyboard turning. This game has autofacing and a global cooldown. Keyboard turners will have no difference if the following situations are true. -Ranged class-Static enemy that does not knockback-Enemy that does not use AoE-Not using backstabs-Not needing to pay attention to position. However, most heroic/flashpoint mobs/bosses require mobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaede Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 simply put, would you rather type using your keyboard or click your mouse on an onscreen keyboard... essentially the same thing. Though I could care less if people click or bind as long as whatever I'm trying to kill dies. It would make no difference if typing had a 1.5 second global cooldown between able to type letters. It might have a marginal effect on off global cooldown abilities but either way I ahve never seen any empirical evidence that proves that mouse turning is superior, only that it works better for some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancrizans Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) If his stats are better than that of keybinders, and as it a point that makes him happy, why does it matter if his stats could be even better? His stats will only be better than lesser skilled keybinders. Equally skilled players will always perform better with mouse movement and hotkeys than clicking, it is simply far more efficient with much less wasted motion and energy. And to the person above who said this game has too many skills to keybind...I have every one of my Sentinel's skills bound, and I think probably most people do. It is simply a question of using the letter keys around your left hand and using modifiers. Which you can't do when you click. Edited March 9, 2012 by Cancrizans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Can you move your mouse cursor from the spell at Action Bar slot 1, click it, then to the spell at Action bar slot 5, click it, faster than you can type 15 ? Seeing how this game has a 1.5 second global cool down, then yes, yes I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game-Hermit Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 The issue is less with clicking and more with keyboard turning. This game has autofacing and a global cooldown. Keyboard turners will have no difference if the following situations are true. -Ranged class -Static enemy that does not knockback -Enemy that does not use AoE -Not using backstabs -Not needing to pay attention to position. However, most heroic/flashpoint mobs/bosses require mobility. You just described a situation that rarely exists in endgame PvE and never exists in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladedakoda Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) A raider in our old wow guild was a clicker, he was amazing, i don't know how he did it but, he never died to stupid and was always and i mean always on top of the dps charts. It was not a social raiding guild either. So while i agree that clickers 95% of the time are not as good as keybind players, there is always an exceptional player who has mastered clicking. Edit, and no he was not a mage. Edited March 9, 2012 by Bladedakoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bejay Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Clicking/keyboarding is like everything in life...the more you do it the better you get so it dosnt matter what people prefer,play the way you want and yes im a clicker!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia-Moi-Voss Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) i fail to see the point of this entire thing. how can someone honestly tell is someone is clicking or using key bindings other than the player themselves? or the person actually in the room watching said player? The point is you cant, no matter what fancy gadget or gizmo you have on your ind you have no idea how there playing on their end. I know this comment will get backlash from stuff like "Well wit ha combat log..." Yea ... no, that wont tell you what their play style is it only tells you the outcome of there play style while in combat. which is something i again fail to see the necessity of. Why should it matter how much damage per second a toon can dish out if you can take down a mob in 1 hit, or a lvl 50 in 5-10 seconds. the tanks hurt from this cause they cant dish out the hurt like a DPS can. And i was starting to get sidetracked but it all comes down to this. YOU CANT TELL SOMEONE WHAT STYLE OF PLAY IS BETTER OR WORSE. i know a friend who played as a healer in GW, his mother took away his keyboard as a punishment to prevent him from playing. He got ingenious and used the onscreen keyboard and his mouse to play only for a full month. He became Damned good at healing in that month because of that handicap that when he got his keyboard back he was even better. Which style of play was better? who knows because both ended up making him a better player. Oh and as another thing, what kinda mobility are yall talking about? you cant run and use most of the skill at the same time in this game anyway. so i fail to see how this argument is relevant Edited March 9, 2012 by Alexia-Moi-Voss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game-Hermit Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) A raider in our old wow guild was a clicker, he was amazing, i don't know how he did it but, he never died to stupid and was always and i mean always on top of the dps charts. It was not a social raiding guild either. So while i agree that clickers 95% of the time are not as good as keybind players, there is always an exceptional player who has mastered clicking. Again, it's not physically possible for him to be as good clicking as he would be using keybinds. It's not up for debate. It's a fact. A measurable, testable, provable fact. Fact: One can't look in 2 places at once. Fact: Mouse turning is far, far slower than keyboard turning. Fact: Moving your finger a couple of centimeters to another key is much faster than moving the mouse all the way across the screen. Hotkeys are objectively better, period. I don't mind people preferring to click. They pay the same subscription as me and they can play however they have the most fun. I have a big problem with people claiming fact is subjective opinion. i fail to see the point of this entire thing. how can someone honestly tell is someone is clicking or using key bindings other than the player themselves? or the person actually in the room watching said player? Because the clicker is standing in the AOE because he was watching his mouse instead of the fight. Also because any competent melee will spend ~80% of the fight behind him where he can't fight back. Edited March 9, 2012 by Game-Hermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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