"Clickers"

[Redmarx]

All the great PVPers use keybinds. This isn't 2004, we are not still playing Everquest.

 

MMOs are full of competitive gamers now. And they don't click.

 

 

 

2nd paragraph on Arena Junkies guide to becoming good at PVP:

 

http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/83218-how-to-improve-your-arena-ratings/

 

Controlling Your Character

 

A keybinding is a shortcut that allows you to use your abilities quickly without interaction with the mouse. Clicking does things slowly and thus is less effective than someone who uses keybinds. Clicking forces you to watch your action bars and hinders you from watching what is going on around you causing tunnel vision.

 

The first keybinds you need to worry about is your movement base. These are the buttons you use to control which direction your character runs. Most players use "WASD" keys for their movement base. That would be W Forward, A Left, S Back, and D Right. Players with large hands use "ESDF" to take advantage of the extra keybind space.

These setups are aimed at right handed players. Left handers will either have to learn to play right handed or develop their own method.

You need to rebind your turn keys as the strafe keys. That would be A/D or S/F depending on your setup. You are unbinding the turn keys because the right mouse button is used to turn. Strafing moves your character right and left while still facing the same direction.

 

The most common reachable keybinds are 12345QERTFGXC. Of course, if you can reach further go for it. You can combine these with modifiers (Shift/Ctrl/Alt) to keep keybinds within reach.

Some players also bind things to their mouse wheels or extra mouse buttons.

The general idea is to keybind your most used abilities close to your movement base and branch out from there. This makes it easier on you and keeps your hand from cramping up.

Keeping similar abilities together can help you memorize them.

I find that Caps Lock is a great button for ventrilo.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Redmarx

[MasterFeign]

Best way to learn to keybind is to start with just a few and master those.

 

Keybind 1-5

Q

E

R

F

 

Those are the easiest as they fit around WASD and don't involve any stretching of the fingers or movement of the hand and you get to keep your thumb immobile.

 

Add:

X

C

V

 

Next step:

Use pinky to push shift

Combine shift with the first set, as if you were typing

 

Next step:

Combine shift with the second set

 

You're now a keybinder. With 24 hotkeys.

 

All it takes is four days of practice, 1 hour per day.

 

Muscle memory will do the rest.

 

For this guide, what should I keybind the strafing to (if at all?) I have 4 side buttons on my mouse but in order to use them in the best way, I do have to shift weight very slightly in my hand to click them which probably looses some time. Of course practicing would certainly help.

 

Or do I just leave strafing to holding the right click button down whilst moving?

Edited March 20, 2012 by MasterFeign

[byteresistor]

Let's be honest here, the only reason the poll says 36% clickers is because many people in this game are either completely new to this genre or have come from other games which are not as competitive as say... the industry standard that is WoW (or other games with similar game mechanics). You may like or hate WoW but it is still the industry standard and the PvP in that game is ruthless and non-forgiving (one could make a similar argument for PvE too to an extent). If you went to the WoW forums and did a similar poll the results would be much more in favor of keybinding.

[Dayln]

So was there keyboard players in Doom and early ages in Quake. But after a while they got phased out by mouse and keyboard users.

 

I have yet to see a single PVP video in any MMO ever where a clicker has been good. Feel free to prove me wrong.

 

Here is a video of a good PVP player in WoW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtU2GG5DQdk

 

Learn what MMO RPG's are while you are researching the other stuff too.

 

I’m not here to educate you, I honestly don’t really care if you comprehend it or not.

 

I am only here to remind the folks that may not know that you are not any kind of expert, that there have been very successful players that use different methods

[byteresistor]

I am only here to remind the folks that may not know that you are not any kind of expert, that there have been very successful players that use different methods

Yet you seem to think that those players still being a minority just happens to be a non-relevant coincidence. If both methods were truly equal then why aren't there an equal amount of succesful players from both camps?

Edited March 20, 2012 by byteresistor

[Redmarx]

For this guide, what should I keybind the strafing to (if at all?) I have 4 side buttons on my mouse but in order to use them in the best way, I do have to shift weight very slightly in my hand to click them which probably looses some time. Of course practicing would certainly help.

 

Or do I just leave strafing to holding the right click button down whilst moving?

 

Oh yes, I should have specified that:

 

W-Forward

S-Back

A-Strafe left

D-Strafe fight

 

All camera movement is done with mouse, get used to doing it that way. It helps for both kiting classes and melee who need to position between multiple enemies for switches etc.

[Krazed]

No one is changing either sides mind nor are they going to.

[Dayln]

Yet you seem to think that those players still being a minority just happens to be a non-relevant coincidence. If both methods were truly equal then why aren't there an equal amount of succesful players from both camps?

 

anything you don’t do is non relevant?

 

ROFLMAO

 

I didn’t say anything about minority or majority, just that people are different, and use what works for you best. Be willing to try different things, but when someone else tells you that one way, is the best way for everyone… just chuckle and move along, cause they do not know what they are talking about.

[byteresistor]

No one is changing either sides mind nor are they going to.

I was once a clicker, I fought against it with gnarled teeth. I am not anymore so clearly someone had an impact.

[limibeans]

There is no physical way a clicker can ever be as fast or as accurate as a key binder of the same "quality". Trust me, if clicking was as good as everyone says it is, more pros would be clicking their hotkeys and not even bothering with a keyboard.

 

All a person has to do is watch an "insane micro" video and you'll see why you have to use keybinds. If your mouse doing all of that looking/targeting/moving/selecting there is no time for it to move around your UI to activate abilities.

 

It dosent surprise me that people think clicking works well. These same people probably think that typing with two fingers works well too. This is all about perspective and status quo based on the "level" that person has to perform.

 

 

 

TL;DR: Pressing a hotkey and clicking the ground in rapid succession means I have many more chances to pass the Hutball in a jam than you who is clicking your bar then clicking the ground who may just get one try.

[MasterFeign]

Oh yes, I should have specified that:

 

W-Forward

S-Back

A-Strafe left

D-Strafe fight

 

All camera movement is done with mouse, get used to doing it that way. It helps for both kiting classes and melee who need to position between multiple enemies for switches etc.

 

Hmm sounds like a good idea. Do you think I should start with this first, then go into keybinding my skills?

[Marmerus]

Oh yes, I should have specified that:

 

W-Forward

S-Back

A-Strafe left

D-Strafe fight

 

All camera movement is done with mouse, get used to doing it that way. It helps for both kiting classes and melee who need to position between multiple enemies for switches etc.

No need. If you have turn right and left on A and D they will turn into strafe buttons when you hold down right mouse button.

Having them as turning buttons helps you when you do stuff like eat in front of your computer and drinking something while playing with one hand.

[Toxen]

I believe keybinding made me dumb. Just my personal opinion.

I started clicking. Clicking made me smart.

I don't think I can ever go back to keybinding.

[Krazed]

Some people like me don't have many options other than using a mouse. I'm disabled so I click an on-screen keyboard and I use keybinds.

[Galbatorrix]

Ok, so I tried to keybind yesterday on my level 13 Jedi Shadow...

 

q = Stealth

e = Shadow Strike

r = Project

f = Double Strike

x = saber strike (auto attack)

 

I kind of liked how my eyes were on the action longer, but I really felt as though I was just hammering the keys randomly hoping something would stick. It felt way less proficient because instead of using each ability right as it became available, I was just kind of using stuff randomly. Also, I'm sure a lot of my presses went wasted as well due to me guessing what was on or off cool down. I realize I could look down to check the CDs, but at that point, I might as well be clicking again.

 

How do you guys get around this? Do you keep glancing down through out combat? I thought the point of keybinding was to stop you from doing that?

 

I definitely see the value in PVP as randomly pressing your main abilities would probably work out, but for PVE, I don't really see an advantage unless I take the time to learn each abilities CD so I'm not wasting time pressing the wrong keys all the time.

[EnsignSorrow]

How can you turn fast and click? There's nothing wrong with it, it's just not good.

 

 

 

First, I was a clicker when I first started MMO's. Then I learned to us more keys. I got better.

 

Finally, I started hot-keying every ability on my keyboard. I got much better.

 

Sure, you can play like that, yet I can tell you right now that you will have no chance vs someone like myself in 1v1. I will simply stay out of your LOS half the time, nerfing your damage output. It's really that simple. I'm not bragging either.

[EnsignSorrow]

 

I kind of liked how my eyes were on the action longer, but I really felt as though I was just hammering the keys randomly hoping something would stick. It felt way less proficient because instead of using each ability right as it became available, I was just kind of using stuff randomly. Also, I'm sure a lot of my presses went wasted as well due to me guessing what was on or off cool down. I realize I could look down to check the CDs, but at that point, I might as well be clicking again.

 

How do you guys get around this? Do you keep glancing down through out combat? I thought the point of keybinding was to stop you from doing that?

 

That is because you have bad hotkeys. Your rotation needs to be 1 2 3 4 5.

 

You never go over 5 or 6 on your rotation (6 is for only certain classes).

 

What hotkeys are used for is not attacking in most cases. It's used for skills that aren't used often, but need to be resourced quickly at only certain times.

 

Here is my setup:

 

12345 is my rotation.

Q is my under 30% move (finish move) that I need to have easily accessible, but off my rotation. E is a ranged filler. T is my anti movement impairing skill. Z is my battle buff, x is my stun, c is my disrupt, v is my snare, b is my shield. f is stealth, r is vanish (I'm a shadow). g is force speed. F1, F2 my relics, etc.

 

So yeah you don't want your rotation to have a heavy macro. Macro is for stuns, snars, and other off-rotation abilities. It is much faster to know that V for example is my snare, so that I can more easily react to the situation without even taking my eyes off of what is going on, and my other hand is free to move my camera around. All your abilities should be reachable by your left hand.

[MisterData]

Ok, so I tried to keybind yesterday on my level 13 Jedi Shadow...

 

q = Stealth

e = Shadow Strike

r = Project

f = Double Strike

x = saber strike (auto attack)

 

I kind of liked how my eyes were on the action longer, but I really felt as though I was just hammering the keys randomly hoping something would stick. It felt way less proficient because instead of using each ability right as it became available, I was just kind of using stuff randomly. Also, I'm sure a lot of my presses went wasted as well due to me guessing what was on or off cool down. I realize I could look down to check the CDs, but at that point, I might as well be clicking again.

 

How do you guys get around this? Do you keep glancing down through out combat? I thought the point of keybinding was to stop you from doing that?

 

I definitely see the value in PVP as randomly pressing your main abilities would probably work out, but for PVE, I don't really see an advantage unless I take the time to learn each abilities CD so I'm not wasting time pressing the wrong keys all the time.

 

Once you actually learn(muscle memory) where your abilities are and why you're using them, you're not randomly pressing buttons. Unless you're bad that is. I do spam my next ability though so it goes off right when the gcd ends.

[Stugotz]

 

Take 2 people of equal skill and equal gear and one is a clicker and one is a keybinder. I don't think I need to say which one would win in a fight (hint: keybinder).

 

What a crock of manure!

Edited March 21, 2012 by Stugotz

[Galbatorrix]

Once you actually learn(muscle memory) where your abilities are and why you're using them, you're not randomly pressing buttons. Unless you're bad that is. I do spam my next ability though so it goes off right when the gcd ends.

 

 

 

I learned where the abilities were quickly (that part was actually very easy). What I'm saying is, I'd start spamming the project key thinking it's off CD and nothing would happen for a couple seconds. So, in essence, I wasted a GCD that I could have used for something else because there's no way to know if the abilities are off CD unless I look down at my bars. Which again, isn't much different to me than looking down and clicking the next ability coming of CD.

 

I'm not trying to make this an argument for clicking, I'm just curious how keybinders (especially the ones who say they don't have to look at their bars) activate the next priority ability without missing a GCD due to pressing the button to early.

[Meldwyn]

I learned where the abilities were quickly (that part was actually very easy). What I'm saying is, I'd start spamming the project key thinking it's off CD and nothing would happen for a couple seconds. So, in essence, I wasted a GCD that I could have used for something else because there's no way to know if the abilities are off CD unless I look down at my bars. Which again, isn't much different to me than looking down and clicking the next ability coming of CD.

 

I'm not trying to make this an argument for clicking, I'm just curious how keybinders (especially the ones who say they don't have to look at their bars) activate the next priority ability without missing a GCD due to pressing the button to early.

 

In pve, its not as situational, although interrupts are. Hoewever in pvp, you'd better be able to react quickly to an ever changing situation.

 

When learning think of it like going from two skies while water skiing vs. one, its gonna take practice, but boy is it worth it.

[ferroz]

Minds are not only a non-physical thing.

The physical part of the brain has nothing to do with moving your fingers, so it's kind of irrelevant.

 

Humans are much more comfortable responding to situations faster with muscle memory and keybinding favors this method by a longshot over clicking.

Some are, some aren't

 

This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a scientific fact and again it's pretty much universal among all people who are atleast of average physical and mental fittness.

Oh, if you're going to claim scientific fact: citation needed. Please link to a peer reviewed study showing that keybinding is faster than clicking 100% of the time.

 

if you can't, then just stick to talking about your opinion instead of presenting it as if it were fact...

 

It will be a mystery to you that these same awasome players would be even better players if they put time and effort in learning to keybind.

baseless speculation is still baseless speculation, even if you throw in passive aggressive insults. Edited March 21, 2012 by ferroz

[Galbatorrix]

In pve, its not as situational, although interrupts are. Hoewever in pvp, you'd better be able to react quickly to an ever changing situation.

 

When learning think of it like going from two skies while water skiing vs. one, its gonna take practice, but boy is it worth it.

 

 

I could definitely see it's worth in PVP, because it's hard to try to max DPS in that environment anyway but in a PVE situation, it feels like I'll still be staring at my bars more than I want to if I want to make sure I'm using my abilities as soon as they're off CD.

 

As for interrupts in PVE, I've never had any issues interrupting NPCs while clicking. It really does seem to me that the only real advantage is for PVP at this point.

 

I'm going to stick with it, as it's kind of fun right now playing a different way, but I still don't see the advantage while questing.

[ferroz]

There is no physical way a clicker can ever be as fast or as accurate as a key binder of the same "quality".

sure there is.

 

Trust me,

How about... no, I'm not just going to take your word for it...

[Dayln]

Some folks are just clicking impaired ( chuckle )

 

I am