"Clickers"

[fadingdimension]

Does clicking work? Yes. Do you do well with clicking? Maybe.

 

I don't think most people are saying you can't function as a clicker. But it's like a sport or instrument.

 

For instance, when I started playing guitar I used poor techniques. I did this for a long time and I was able to play well enough. However, once I started trying to play more difficult things I realized that my technique was holding me back. I had to relearn and suppress my bad habits. Eventually it became second nature and in the end I became a better guitar player. I could have got by without shaping up my technique and been "fine".

 

There are many Boxers who do well and have bad technique. They make up for this sometimes with speed, strength, or stamina. But many of them never reach their pinnacle because they think they can get by with their strength and power. They do "fine". Would anyone argue that having better technique would allow them to do better?

 

You're probably playing fine. I'm sure most of you are good players and can do pretty well. But as others have pointed out there are many scenarios were clicking is less efficient and effective than having full mouse control for movement, targeting, and camera control while using key-binds.

 

Do I care if you click? No. Play however you want. But no matter how you twist it or turn it you cannot say you're playing to 100% of your potential (and that can be a compliment to your potential). That's fine and there's nothing wrong with just wanting to have fun and not worry about being min-max.

Edited March 11, 2012 by fadingdimension

[Frozenshiva]

you'd be surprised how easily you can improve what you are doing with less than half the effort if you're fingers where on top of the skill you need to use.

 

Rather than flying across anything. Look I'm just trying to help you guys out but I actually like clickers, they are the easiest to kill.

 

And again you're assuming things. Most of the times you're stomping someone, it's actually a binder.

I really hate repeating myself. I care about RESULTS.

 

Statistically speaking there are just so much more binders than clickers. I'm just going to imagine numbers for this one, but i wouldn't be surprised if there's like 10 binders for every 1 clicker.

Also statistically, the majority of the player base is, in terms of skill, around average.

Which means, statistically, most binders are mediocre.

 

That is why i keep telling you to look at the person you are playing with and not others.

Chances are about 90% or higher, the person you just stomped, the person you kicked out of your party/ guild, or the person you just saw moving awkwardly, is in fact a binder.

 

When you're forcing your "help" on others to turn to binding, you might actually make them play worse than before, since you're removing them from their comfort zone. Some people will get past that comfort zone, into a new one, but most won't.

 

If you think I'm advocating mediocrity, you're far more ...... than i thought.

[WNxAres]

so you do understand there is definite value in keybinds, as you dabble in them.

 

What if you're always in a rush to kill someone, wouldn't keybinds be the way to go?

 

Yeah I understand that there is value in keybinds but I just can't get used to it. And also, when I mean in a rush I mean like my hand isnt really close to my mouse.

 

 

I suggest you ask others in Warrior Nation, I have played several MMOs with WNx and I doubt too many of them would advocate clicking.

 

Yeah I've been trying to get my display name changed for a long time. I'm not associated with them anymore and I haven't been for about a year

[Quintan]

And again you're assuming things. Most of the times you're stomping someone, it's actually a binder.

I really hate repeating myself. I care about RESULTS.

 

Statistically speaking there are just so much more binders than clickers. I'm just going to imagine numbers for this one, but i wouldn't be surprised if there's like 10 binders for every 1 clicker.

Also statistically, the majority of the player base is, in terms of skill, around average.

Which means, statistically, most binders are mediocre.

 

That is why i keep telling you to look at the person you are playing with and not others.

Chances are about 90% or higher, the person you just stomped, the person you kicked out of your party/ guild, or the person you just saw moving awkwardly, is in fact a binder.

 

When you're forcing your "help" on others to turn to binding, you might actually make them play worse than before, since you're removing them from their comfort zone. Some people will get past that comfort zone, into a new one, but most won't.

 

If you think I'm advocating mediocrity, you're far more ...... than i thought.

 

Wow, I'm sorry I don't want to be mean but you went from funny to idk what lol.

What plannet is your logic from geez lmao. Please continue your clicking crusade, Ok no need to respond to your comments anymore...

Edited March 11, 2012 by Quintan

[Stupiddrummer]

 

If you think I'm advocating mediocrity, you're far more ...... than i thought.

 

if i had a dollar for every time someone called me an ellipses!

 

your definitely not advocating that people play to their highest potential. What do you want me to say, that your advocating an inefficient playstyle and terrible gaming habits?

[Stupiddrummer]

Yeah I understand that there is value in keybinds but I just can't get used to it. And also, when I mean in a rush I mean like my hand isnt really close to my mouse.

 

 

not trying to be mean, but that's a personal problem.

 

 

For me, personally, i could never get used to switching my directional keys from wasd to esdf. You know, its the same thing, just shifted over, but with more access to your numbers.

 

I am aware that i could be playing better by using esdf, but i still use wasd. While i may not use esdf myself, i'm not going to advocate that my preferred playstyle is better than that.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Stupiddrummer

[Samwiseee]

And again you're assuming things. Most of the times you're stomping someone, it's actually a binder.

I really hate repeating myself. I care about RESULTS.

 

Statistically speaking there are just so much more binders than clickers. I'm just going to imagine numbers for this one, but i wouldn't be surprised if there's like 10 binders for every 1 clicker.

Also statistically, the majority of the player base is, in terms of skill, around average.

Which means, statistically, most binders are mediocre.

 

That is why i keep telling you to look at the person you are playing with and not others.

Chances are about 90% or higher, the person you just stomped, the person you kicked out of your party/ guild, or the person you just saw moving awkwardly, is in fact a binder.

 

When you're forcing your "help" on others to turn to binding, you might actually make them play worse than before, since you're removing them from their comfort zone. Some people will get past that comfort zone, into a new one, but most won't.

 

If you think I'm advocating mediocrity, you're far more ...... than i thought.

 

Those kinds of assertions do nothing really to support your points. A better way to do it would be:

 

% of clickers that are below average vs % of keybinders that are below average

 

That might be impossible to find out, but we can take a pretty darn good guess by looking at which playstyle is objectively more efficient. Keybinding is the clear winner there.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Samwiseee

[Stupiddrummer]

That kind of data does nothing really support your points. A better way to do it would be:

 

saying that the majority of bad players are binders is hardly data. That was more directed at the post you quoted.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Stupiddrummer

[Samwiseee]

saying that the majority of bad players are binders is hardly data. That was more directed at the post you quoted.

 

fixed, lol

[Frozenshiva]

if i had a dollar for every time someone called me an ellipses!

 

your definitely not advocating that people play to their highest potential. What do you want me to say, that your advocating an inefficient playstyle and terrible gaming habits?

 

You're that person that thinks coins have only one side, aren't you?

 

I do want people to play to their highest potential, as long as that potential is needed.

But you're mistaking potential with efficiency.

You can reach your potential efficiently or inefficiently.

I for one don't care how you do it as long as you do it.

And once you're there, the path really doesn't matter anymore. You already reached your potential. That being said, the potential of one person is not the potential of all.

 

 

I'm not like my stupid math teacher that flunked a kid for using a different method to solve a problem than the one thought in school.

The kid solved the problem correctly. That's what matters.

[Stupiddrummer]

fixed, lol

 

to your original point - that kind of data does exist in the pro leagues. I've never followed WoW arena at the pro levels, that would be a good place to start.

 

Having spent a considerable amount of time following MLG and GSL starcraft, it would be very misinformed to say they could stay competitive only through clicking.

 

I know its a differnt game, but SWTOR and SC2 are both about efficient play over time, whether it be actions per minute or damage per second.

[Quintan]

And again you're assuming things. Most of the times you're stomping someone, it's actually a binder.

I really hate repeating myself. I care about RESULTS.

 

Statistically speaking there are just so much more binders than clickers. I'm just going to imagine numbers for this one, but i wouldn't be surprised if there's like 10 binders for every 1 clicker.

Also statistically, the majority of the player base is, in terms of skill, around average.

Which means, statistically, most binders are mediocre.

 

That is why i keep telling you to look at the person you are playing with and not others.

Chances are about 90% or higher, the person you just stomped, the person you kicked out of your party/ guild, or the person you just saw moving awkwardly, is in fact a binder.

 

When you're forcing your "help" on others to turn to binding, you might actually make them play worse than before, since you're removing them from their comfort zone. Some people will get past that comfort zone, into a new one, but most won't.

 

If you think I'm advocating mediocrity, you're far more ...... than i thought.

 

No logic in your statement.....

[Samwiseee]

You're that person that thinks coins have only one side, aren't you?

 

I do want people to play to their highest potential, as long as that potential is needed.

But you're mistaking potential with efficiency.

You can reach your potential efficiently or inefficiently.

I for one don't care how you do it as long as you do it.

And once you're there, the path really doesn't matter anymore. You already reached your potential. That being said, the potential of one person is not the potential of all.

 

 

I'm not like my stupid math teacher that flunked a kid for using a different method to solve a problem than the one thought in school.

The kid solved the problem correctly. That's what matters.

 

Clearly you have a skewed definition of Potential. If there are more efficient ways to do things, THAT is your potential. By not doing them, you are not reaching that potential.

[Averran]

Hello everyone,

 

We have recently had to clean up a number of posts in this thread that were in violation of our Rules of Conduct and wanted to remind everyone to stay on topic while avoiding the following:

 

• Personal Attacks or Insults.
   
  
• Creating posts for the purpose of derailing the topic, eliciting negative reactions or spreading false information.
   
  
• Replying in a manner that adds nothing constructive to the conversation.
  

 

We appreciate your cooperation in this matter and will continue to monitor the conversation. Above all else please remember that we are here to help with issues that come up, you need not respond to them and extend the argument. In short, flag don't flame. This thread is not being closed, please feel free to carry on so long as you abide by the forum rules.

[Samwiseee]

to your original point - that kind of data does exist in the pro leagues. I've never followed WoW arena at the pro levels, that would be a good place to start.

 

Having spent a considerable amount of time following MLG and GSL starcraft, it would be very misinformed to say they could stay competitive only through clicking.

 

I know its a differnt game, but SWTOR and SC2 are both about efficient play over time, whether it be actions per minute or damage per second.

 

I actually did play WoW arena at the pro levels, so I am speaking from experience! Keyboard turners / clickers were a free win 99.999% of the time.

[Stupiddrummer]

You're that person that thinks coins have only one side, aren't you?

 

I do want people to play to their highest potential, as long as that potential is needed.

But you're mistaking potential with efficiency.

You can reach your potential efficiently or inefficiently.

I for one don't care how you do it as long as you do it.

And once you're there, the path really doesn't matter anymore. You already reached your potential. That being said, the potential of one person is not the potential of all.

 

 

I'm not like my stupid math teacher that flunked a kid for using a different method to solve a problem than the one thought in school.

The kid solved the problem correctly. That's what matters.

 

sometimes, when a coin is flipped, it never lands at all

 

you dont take well to reasoning, so i'll use an example.

 

Compare a piano and a xylophone, both essentially the same instrument.s

 

However, you can play sheet-music on a piano without looking down at the keys, because your hands are there already.

 

On a xylophone, you have to look down at the keys to make sure you're striking the correct note.

 

In this example, a piano would be keybinding, and a xylophone would be clicking.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Stupiddrummer

[Amaste]

Binder here. Being left handed kinda locked it for me /shrug

[Stupiddrummer]

I actually did play WoW arena at the pro levels, so I am speaking from experience! Keyboard turners / clickers were a free win 99.999% of the time.

 

probaly the best thing about WoW that SWTOR left out.

 

I remember constantly staying behind (enemy) keyboard turning mages, because they could never turn around fast enough to skill cast on me

[Zynellan]

Keybinds are faster.

 

To be honest, it's your $15 a month so as long as you enjoy the game it shouldn't matter.

[Frozenshiva]

to your original point - that kind of data does exist in the pro leagues. I've never followed WoW arena at the pro levels, that would be a good place to start.

 

Having spent a considerable amount of time following MLG and GSL starcraft, it would be very misinformed to say they could stay competitive only through clicking.

 

I know its a differnt game, but SWTOR and SC2 are both about efficient play over time, whether it be actions per minute or damage per second.

 

and now you understand a part of my point, while at the same time still not understanding it.

 

If you are aiming to be competitive, then yes you have to do whatever it takes to be the best.

You min-max, you theory-craft until your eyes bleed, you experiment different keybind and whatnot, until you eventually reach your POTENTIAL.

By that i mean, you reach the point above which you can't go higher. We all have it, and at that point no amount of time invested and practice will make you better.

 

But not everyone is aiming to be competitive. Not everyone is trying to be the best.

And for good reason. If you are not playing for the top, that potential is wasted anyway.

There is no point to extensive practice if you're wasting your potential from the get go.

 

On the other hand, most people play for fun, in some form or another.

In these situations, you only need to be good to a certain degree.

This degree of capability can be achieved both by clickers and by binders.

 

To put it in other terms.

In WoW arena, if your "goal" is to do arenas to get the CP items, you will probably achieve it regardless if you're a clicker or a binder.

If your goal though is to be 2500+ rating. then you'll start refining your play more and more. In most cases you will probably end up being a binder. Rarely will you still be a clicker in that kind of environment. And if you are, you're the 1%

In the case of starcraft, if your goal is to play in silver league or gold, you'll learn whatever it takes to get there and nothing more.

If you want to hit master you'll start changing your play-style until you reach it.

 

However not everyone has the potential to reach those goals. Your potential is what limits you. You can reach maybe platinum, but in most cases you won't get to master... regardless of the time spent trying to improve.

[Stupiddrummer]

and now you understand a part of my point, while at the same time still not understanding it.

 

If you are aiming to be competitive, then yes you have to do whatever it takes to be the best.

You min-max, you theory-craft until your eyes bleed, you experiment different keybind and whatnot, until you eventually reach your POTENTIAL.

By that i mean, you reach the point above which you can't go higher. We all have it, and at that point no amount of time invested and practice will make you better.

 

But not everyone is aiming to be competitive. Not everyone is trying to be the best.

And for good reason. If you are not playing for the top, that potential is wasted anyway.

There is no point to extensive practice if you're wasting your potential from the get go.

 

On the other hand, most people play for fun, in some form or another.

In these situations, you only need to be good to a certain degree.

This degree of capability can be achieved both by clickers and by binders.

 

To put it in other terms.

In WoW arena, if your "goal" is to do arenas to get the CP items, you will probably achieve it regardless if you're a clicker or a binder.

If your goal though is to be 2500+ rating. then you'll start refining your play more and more. In most cases you will probably end up being a binder. Rarely will you still be a clicker in that kind of environment. And if you are, you're the 1%

In the case of starcraft, if your goal is to play in silver league or gold, you'll learn whatever it takes to get there and nothing more.

If you want to hit master you'll start changing your play-style until you reach it.

 

However not everyone has the potential to reach those goals. Your potential is what limits you. You can reach maybe platinum, but in most cases you won't get to master... regardless of the time spent trying to improve.

 

so you just said what everyone else has been saying. Play how you want, but if you want to play at the highest level you are going to have to keybind.

 

Yay we did it!!

[Alphashado]

This thread is another example of elitists being elitists. I have been playing MMOs since UO. I have never once switched to keybinding for everything. I actually use a combination of clicking and keybinds. I bind a few abilities that I deem comfortable with my playstyle, otherwise I click. I tend to bind keys 1,2,3 and sometimes 4 or 5. For those of you that are insinuating that I cannot dps and get out of aoes or that I somehow cannot dps and deal with fight mechanics, or that I fail at pvp... yall need top step down from your high horse. You do your thing, ill do mine, but do not tell me that I suck. Edited March 11, 2012 by Alphashado

[Frozenshiva]

so you just said what everyone else has been saying. Play how you want, but if you want to play at the highest level you are going to have to keybind.

 

Yay we did it!!

 

I said you will most likely end a binder.

Not that its the only way.

[Stupiddrummer]

I said you will most likely end a binder.

Not that its the only way.

 

its ok to agree with me, man. im not a bad person.

[Rafkin]

Who are all these clickers standing in fire because they can't see the action while clicking? Are they playing on an IMAX screen or something? The hotbar is like 2 inches from the action. Silly arguement.

 

And strafing? It gives zero advantage in this game.