Open PVP is DEAD

[TheMunny]

You big baddie, why don't you go play Mortal Online if you are so gangsta... I bet you'll be right back to a so called 'carebear' game after getting murdered, grief killed and priest camped endlessly.

 

Games like this are PvE centric, period. Your crowd goes from game to game crying about 'carebear' PvP, but you wouldn't last 1 day in a game designed for hardcore PvP. So stop acting all gansta lean bad.

 

 

 

yeah so sad instead of trying to fix something they destroy it. bioware gave in to the QQ and now swtor pvp is now 100% carebear. well back to aion i guess.

[Dego_Locc]

I agree why have pvp servers at all. Nearly all the questing areas were made that there was nearly no overlap. So do you want people to pvp or not. I would say not as you went great lengths to keep the opposing sides apart.

 

Warzones are mini games there are watered down pvp at best. They are put in to gear grind. What if there was no gear. I wonder how many would even bother with WZ's?

 

There is no faction pvp because there is no faction channel. It take forever to get anywhere with all the instance switching in the game. There is no fluidity in the game. It is jump here, jump there, jump again etc. It is not like you fly your ship and land.

 

Most of the worlds are way way way too large for the tiny amount of people on each server.

 

There are no objectives of anykind that would even inspire people to pvp. PVP is about capturing towns, cities, space ports, ships and having that mean something in game.

 

You can't do any of the above with the terrible faction balance that exists unless you limit participation in some of those activities.

 

Warhammer was pretty fun starting out and through tier 1 and 2. After that it go worse. This game doesn't have any tier combat just the same old boring WZ's day after day hour after hour.

 

If you are an imp You killed your own side 100 x more than you ever killed the pubs.

 

I thought this was a war. If so where is it?

I agree with all of this, but I liked t2 and t4 in WAR.

[Dego_Locc]

Yah let's copy a game that failed utterly. Great idea.

Warhammer failed because the PVEer's left.

 

Swtor could fail if the PVPer's all leave. That simple.

[SWTOR-GR]

You big baddie, why don't you go play Mortal Online if you are so gangsta... I bet you'll be right back to a so called 'carebear' game after getting murdered, grief killed and priest camped endlessly.

 

Games like this are PvE centric, period. Your crowd goes from game to game crying about 'carebear' PvP, but you wouldn't last 1 day in a game designed for hardcore PvP. So stop acting all gansta lean bad.

 

the best open world mass pvp feeling is coming when the target is a top pve content and rewards where all the types of playes ( pvp or pve lovers ) meet together

Edited March 13, 2012 by SWTOR-GR

[Kryssprolls]

Illum world PvP was DOA. I find Bioware reaction to be a good one : remove Illum PvP, get back to the drawing board and make something good. How many other games companies would kill a major "feature" 3 months after launch and acknowledge they did a poor job ?

 

Now, if only they could improve on their engine and allow for 16vs16 (or more) WZ, things would look brighter... At least, we get a new WZ next month.

[MCAMCJ]

Ok, so bioware you have effectively killed open world PVP. The Illum quests were the only incentive to go there and participate in open world pvp...and now that is gone. Thus catering to the QQing of all the boohooers and crybaby WOW players.

 

I understand this is a business and you want to keep people playing, enjoying the game and entertained but, your Open world PVP needs real work. Take a page from Warhammer Online Age of Reckoning. They were all about PVP and it was great. The open world systems that they had set up worked fantastically. A scaled open world pvp that REWARDS BAGS....that would encourage open world PVP, at this point...you have killed it.

 

To all of you that flame, or don't like this thread...go QQ some more somewhere else so bioware can break another aspect of its own game.

 

I think Bioware now maintains both warhammer online as well as daoc... which makes you wonder how they could screw up pvp so badly in swtor...

[Bloodylittle]

Illum world PvP was DOA. I find Bioware reaction to be a good one : remove Illum PvP, get back to the drawing board and make something good. How many other games companies would kill a major "feature" 3 months after launch and acknowledge they did a poor job ?

 

Now, if only they could improve on their engine and allow for 16vs16 (or more) WZ, things would look brighter... At least, we get a new WZ next month.

 

Too bad they spent four years preparing for fail at launch by spending a total of what seems like 2 months on Ilum/Open World PvP.

Too bad they didn't listen to the Alpha/Beta testers who all said Ilum was going to fail becuase of its flawed design.

Too bad they didn't listen/read the hundreds of very good concepts and recommendations on how to fix Open World PvP here on the forums.

Too bad that they have run out of time with the GW2 PvP juggernaut looming.

Just too bad...

[Sevvy]

I'm really trying to understand what killed open world pvp in your eyes...the 3/30 you get per warzone?

 

The game being released.

 

Bioware has no clue how to implement open PvP that isn't a zerging lagfest.

 

Honestly, if they introduced PvP like the RVR lakes in WAR, PvP in this game would be so much better. They should have built on and improved the ideas that Mythic had in WAR. That was not terrible PvP. It just needed some tweaks.

[MCAMCJ]

Warhammer failed because the PVEer's left.

 

Swtor could fail if the PVPer's all leave. That simple.

 

Actually, Warhammer died because Mythic sold out to EA, then EA got rid of 90% of Mythic staff and tried to run it themselves.

 

EA has a long, terrible history with MMORPG's. It has effectively killed every single one it's touched... UO, daoc, warhammer, etc.

 

EA's business model is exclusive to console games where new content and long term maintenance is not needed. And as such, they will effectively ruin any mmorpg title that's under them.

 

Those of you who don't know the history, it's becoming quite apparent that EA is doing it again...

 

And swtor is the first mmorpg title bioware has created - even though they maintain daoc, warhammer and I think UO - and it's already becoming apparent they're sticking with the console game development mentality.

Edited March 13, 2012 by MCAMCJ

[Ewgal]

Actually, Warhammer died because Mythic sold out to EA, then EA got rid of 90% of Mythic staff and tried to run it themselves.

 

I think you have your facts wrong here. Mythic entertainment were bought out in 2006, two years before WAR was released. A year after WAR's launch, and it had some problems with endgame RvR, which is mainly down to Mythic and no one else, EA restructured them into Bioware Mythic. WAR is probably a much better game than it was back in 2008 imho.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Ewgal

[GingerMagician]

There is no open world pvp and there never has been.I killed a number of players while levelling my first character and never got an ounce of valor for it.

 

If you go to the Tatooine open world area I have never seen another player there and I even killed a player in the empire mission area on ILum once and got nothing for it.

 

Even BW have admitted this problem and according to the latest info the dailys and weeklys for Ilum are being removed and you will merely play warzones from now on.

 

The thing is when there is no loot there will be no unstructured pvp openworld or otherwise which is a basically failing of all theme park MMOs.

[Crunchyblack]

Im pretty sure BW expected ilum to be the end all pvp location for endgame. They realized the players didnt like it.

 

1. Its way too LAGGY for people on anything other than a new processor+top end card+ new memory.

 

Guy with an i5+580 card gets 20 fps....i mean i was planning to upgrade but ive played far better looking games with much better results.

 

Theres far too much going on, far too many people in giant blobs. all the landscape animations /jets flyingh over bombing/ lazers and crawlers...oh and 60 players with all their animations firing at once....the hell did you expect? In this situation, with so much going on...i dont need to see all those animations and my card cant draw then all (260 gtx)

 

2. Two faction woes. Bottom line in a game like this, where there is going to be an obvious favorite faction...you didnt bother to think "whats something fun a small group of people can do to compete with a giant massive zerg??" i get it you put a measly cannon outside the base in a non strategic location. Theres no motivation to group up and face the imperial zerg unless you can find a zerg on your side. And then its a huge lagfest.

 

3. Yes as stated before, now the 50 WZ you were going to do today anyway? Well now its going to complete your ilum quests...

[Dego_Locc]

Too bad they spent four years preparing for fail at launch by spending a total of what seems like 2 months on Ilum/Open World PvP.

Too bad they didn't listen to the Alpha/Beta testers who all said Ilum was going to fail becuase of its flawed design.

Too bad they didn't listen/read the hundreds of very good concepts and recommendations on how to fix Open World PvP here on the forums.

Too bad that they have run out of time with the GW2 PvP juggernaut looming.

Just too bad...

A couple corrections here, 1st off, ilum was in the last few general testing beta builds, but nothing was there, no walkers, nothing. So it was never really properly beta tested by the general testing group. And we had no idea what was to be implemented. Secondly, they did have a server in the end of beta, maybe the build before the last before launch, where you could roll a level 42 out the gate and test end game content. Problem was they gave us no credits to start with and we couldn't train ANY of our skills at level 42 to even test properly. So a week later that server went down.

 

But yea you basically got the gist of it, they rarely listened to us on the test forums, and there was almost no interaction from the devs with the community (outside of an occasional sticky) same as there isn't really much communication now.

 

We told them this game wasn't ready for a release, but they had to release it anyway because it already felt/feels dated....

Edited March 13, 2012 by Dego_Locc

[falcaogj]

It was never alive the design of this game for OW pvp was teriible and seemingly a poor after thought.

[MCAMCJ]

I think you have your facts wrong here. Mythic entertainment were bought out in 2006, two years before WAR was released. A year after WAR's launch, and it had some problems with endgame RvR, which is mainly down to Mythic and no one else, EA restructured them into Bioware Mythic. WAR is probably a much better game than it was back in 2008 imho.

 

Mythic sold to EA for the strict purpose of having better marketing for warhammer.

 

What Mythic didn't expect was for EA to step in and play such a large role in the development of the game. In all reality, warhammer was not ready for launch when it launched; but instead of delaying the launch EA did what it does... cut features and ignore game breaking issues and released anyway.

 

I haven't exactly kept up with things for the past 3 years or so, but my facts back then are correct... and I'm also pretty certain that the majority of Mythic's staff were "let go" before war launched, if not shortly after.

 

At the end of the day, EA played the largest role in warhammers failure.

 

And sadly, swtor seems to be heading down the same road. I personally think swtor won't last a year before it too is put into maintenance mode... unless bioware/EA steps up and makes some huge changes that actually benefit the game.

[Dego_Locc]

Mythic sold to EA for the strict purpose of having better marketing for warhammer.

 

What Mythic didn't expect was for EA to step in and play such a large role in the development of the game. In all reality, warhammer was not ready for launch when it launched; but instead of delaying the launch EA did what it does... cut features and ignore game breaking issues and released anyway.

 

I haven't exactly kept up with things for the past 3 years or so, but my facts back then are correct... and I'm also pretty certain that the majority of Mythic's staff were "let go" before war launched, if not shortly after.

 

At the end of the day, EA played the largest role in warhammers failure.

 

And sadly, swtor seems to be heading down the same road. I personally think swtor won't last a year before it too is put into maintenance mode... unless bioware/EA steps up and makes some huge changes that actually benefit the game.

 

I remember during the loading screens for WAR there would be little game facts, like one said something like.

 

"Did you know, the average WAR dev changed office building 6 times during production of the game..."

 

I always thought they were funny and almost sounded like excuses though.

 

And FTR a year after launch I loved WAR's open world PVP. It's fairly dead now though. Most PVPer's don't give MMO's second chances.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Dego_Locc

[Crunchyblack]

Each planet with both factions needs a pvp area with a cappable objective that will buff the winning factions XP for a certain amount of time. Only allow players within the listed level range of the planet, doing the WZ style buff for the lower end players.

 

Its not perfect, but its something for the lower levels. THe pvp zone on tattooine is lame. Wow the same vendors i can see on the fleet to spend my commendations i cant earn there.

 

 

As for ilum. Its too big, theres too many animations being drawn for most players to get an acceptable frame rate, and the objectives are overthought and lacking in fun.

 

Hell for ilum id like to see all but the bases be a simple tower capped by standing in its range, more players means faster cap.

 

For the bases, make an objective inside the base, make the only defenses player stationed and make them good. Point of this is to allow a small underpopulated faction be able to compete with a zerg trying to storm the compound. Make it hard as hell for the zerg to storm it but make it worth the effort.

 

Perhaps place a few boss type champ mobs and a few small group champ mobs that give a buff and valor on a longer timer, make them roam no static spawn. This at least gives a reason to wander the huge map.

 

 

I cant stress this enough, let us turn off scenery animations and other player animations and it should at least be playable for much larger portion of your playerbase.

 

Right now if i want decent pvp that is playable i need to do WZ's. Else i can sit ther and lag, with the sound lagging too (why not let us cap the # of sounds trying to be played at once?) and hope for some leech valor. Problem is theres 20 people near me doing the same thing, they cant play with single diget fps. Eventually it proves boring and we go WZ.

[Callel]

Risk ur life had a great world concept. Make illum have towers that take a large force to take give a buff that stays on while the tower is controlled. This buff could be like +5% HP for one faster regenerate for another etc. Every 3 days there is a 3 hour window to take the towers and defend them. This would make for a awesome world pvp with a bonus that lasts for operations etc. After the 3 hours you are done until the next day they reset for control. I know in ryl that was some of the best pvp iv played the large clans form ops groups trying get non guild organized for the sieging.

[Bairanax]

We need just a open PVP as DAOC and we have a great open PVP

[Dego_Locc]

We need just a open PVP as DAOC and we have a great open PVP

 

To late for that, only 2 fraction in this game.

[Bairanax]

Also with 2 faction is possible have a similar system, need objectives as outpost, town, planet.... no only equip farm

[Dego_Locc]

Also with 2 faction is possible have a similar system, need objectives as outpost, town, planet.... no only equip farm

 

A huge part of DAoC's "RvR" success was the 3 fractions. They tried it with only two in WAR, and although WAR still had good PVP, it was not as good as DAoC's was IMO.

[Niypi]

This is actually a great point.

 

Not that this change would improve the worthless Ilum PvP, but it would sure as hell make it easier to join a good fight. Once I leave, I'm done for the night. 20min of travel time (to and from) just isn't worth it.

 

I missed GPU (Group Pickup Points) and and ITV''s. THE quick travel is okay, yet the cool down is sucky... Take the 30 min timer off and give us more travel points. I hate loading in.. going to the orbital station on planets and then going to another planet.

 

I Hate... Hate taking any travel to any place. If I played 4 hours a day... I would be travelling for quests approx half hour of that time if not more. UGH.... Okay rant done for the day, but this...... makes open world pvp almost impossibe to do or want to do

[Sombreza]

Im not lvling to 50 lol im going to go gank on my lowbee and stur up the open world aspect of pvp on lower lvls. That is what this game is lacking. World pvp will bring people and keep people playing for hours on end, but they think only 50s want to pvp lol. Lowbee pvp is better then top lvl pvp. Twinks are fun as hell but these players now a days just rush to 50 and think thats the end all be all. They are missing out on 50 lvls of pvp action. WoW has the right idea about open world pvp, make it everywhere. Carebear or not you will have to fight and or die. But it is just as much of fault if the makers of this game as it is the community that doesnt look for pvp while lvling. Look for pvp dont think rushing to 50 is the end all be all. Because you konw what? It will be if you do and this game will die. Edited March 13, 2012 by Sombreza

[Sombreza]

A huge part of DAoC's "RvR" success was the 3 fractions. They tried it with only two in WAR, and although WAR still had good PVP, it was not as good as DAoC's was IMO.

 

WARs down fall was that you could only pvp in the pvp islands bad call. Should have made it all over like wow decient pvp action when there was some.