Sejia Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hello everyone, We have removed several posts from this thread and would like to share a reminder regarding the Rules of Conduct. Please keep your posts on topic, polite, and appropriate for the community. Disrespect, insult, or inappropriate commentary is not permitted. If you spot a post that violates the Rules of Conduct, we ask that you flag it for review rather than respond to it. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matte_Black Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I came here for two things: Star Wars and an MMORPG The game is filled with Star Wars stuff. Just not MMORPG stuff. and before you say something like "yeah well this isn't every MMORPG," this game is WoW with a star wars coat of paint, and the freaking innovation of "hey lets get rid of that pesky auto attack...people like mashing buttons right?" It just seems to me, it's the players who fully bought into the WoW's format of an MMORPG complete with endgame biased-play, cross-server LFG tools, macros, combat logs and add-ons that are the ones most frustrated with this game. It's the players who weren't playing MMOs or disliked WoW that are the people loving this game. Very obviously, it varies from WoW in some important ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Actually, Bioware does see the value of combat metrics. This is why they are adding personal combat logging into the game for players. The fact that they have the foresight and care with respect to combat log data abuse in other MMOs shows that they actully are mindful of protecting their player base from such abuse as has become common in other MMOs. Just because you do not agree with their approach to some aspect of their MMO design does not invalidate their approach. It only invalidates it for you. If they saw the value, they would have been in from launch (or not removed from beta, apparently). If they saw the value, i'd be able to check them in game, not alt-tabbed in an output text file. They are protecting a player base that doesn't fully appreciate combat metrics. Which is fine, if you enjoy the game without worrying about numbers. But im willing to bed, these same people are the ones that get to 50 and stop playing. and MMO is built around continuous play, even after maxing the level. This game is not. edit; moderators are hard at work today. I'll be back to check this later, if the thread isn't doubleplus uncreated. Edited March 8, 2012 by Stupiddrummer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidice Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I vote NO ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valens_Andorius Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) So much for the analogy discussion. But my one point that got deleted was Bioware is trying to give 2 very diverse parties both what they would like in the game as far as logs go. Given that, both sides will not get exactly what they want. If people want EXACTLY what they want, then go get qualified and make video games. BW is doing taking the path of least resistance. Which is fine for me. Personal game info is personal, and should be given only under permission of that player. Edited March 8, 2012 by Valens_Andorius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulmius Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Damage meters are like anything else out there where you can be judged or viewed by other people. If you are good at your role and can put out good to great numbers, then you don't mind damage meters or enjoy them. If you are bad and know you put out bad to mediocre numbers, then you don't like them because others can see you don't perform well. If you are good you like them so people can see you are good and they will add you to their friend friend list and/or group. If you are bad you don't like them because people will judge your gameplay and not your personality and they are less likely to like you. Damage meters are like first impressions. It's the first thing people can see you with. If you are good and the meters show it, then people get a good first impression of you. If you are bad and the meters show it, they get a bad first impression of you. That is literally what meters boil down to. Like or hate that argument, the argument itself hold a lot of merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Why is this still an issue?why is there confusion about why this is is an issue? Anyway, to answer you question: because what they've talked about doesn't cover what some people want... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Damage meters are like anything else out there where you can be judged or viewed by other people. If you are good at your role and can put out good to great numbers, then you don't mind damage meters or enjoy them. If you are bad and know you put out bad to mediocre numbers, then you don't like them because others can see you don't perform well. If you are good you like them so people can see you are good and they will add you to their friend friend list and/or group. If you are bad you don't like them because people will judge your gameplay and not your personality and they are less likely to like you. Damage meters are like first impressions. It's the first thing people can see you with. If you are good and the meters show it, then people get a good first impression of you. If you are bad and the meters show it, they get a bad first impression of you. That is literally what meters boil down to. Like or hate that argument, the argument itself hold a lot of merit. Not really. Since there is a whole category of good players that don't like the bickering that combat logs bring to groups and that is why they don't want full logs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Very obviously, it varies from WoW in some important ways.Well, it's set in a space fantasy world. It has less classes. THe name is different. What other important ways are you talking about? Edited March 8, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Your implementation allows some tool standing next to someone else to log their combat data and then proceed to try to grief the person with it, probably for no other reason then griefing and ego fulfillment. Your response has nothing to do with his question; he asked what choice it removes. You do not, in any way, mention a choice that it removes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonsglory Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 this 100% omg. thousand times yes. this community on the forum is terrible even compared to the WoW community. all these people wanted was a casual starwars jelq fest where they can rp and commune. I see no gamers here. only people who want to hang out in a starwars universe to get away from the real world... (***..) this has to be the 1st time ever where so many has spit so much hate over simple thing as mods and combat logs. I look forward to a day when all the hardcore raiders leave and these casuals are left to raid by themselves. Its a lost cause. This game has lost the spirit of competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Your response has nothing to do with his question; he asked what choice it removes. You do not, in any way, mention a choice that it removes. It removes the pesonal choice to preempt the tool from griefing with log data, because he can log it without consent. Edited March 8, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matte_Black Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Well, it's set in a space fantasy world. It has less classes. THe name is different. What other important ways are you talking about? Put generally, SWTOR's design philosphy better encourages playing a character as opposed to an avatar. Develops a persona to progress through the story as opposed to tweaking a combat entity for competitve play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Not really. Since there is a whole category of good players that don't like the bickering that combat logs bring to groups and that is why they don't want full logs.actually... there are people that claim to be good that don't like the bickering that they blame on combat logs. But I don't think that anyone has offered up any objective evidence that any of the people disagreeing with full combat logs are good. I'm not saying that they're all bad... just that we don't know that the set of people you're talking about is actually non-empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 To a degree. Although the implementation they are presenting gives me MORE choices (and him too, for that matter). More is better. /nodWell, full in game parsed combat logs give both of you even more choices. if more is better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitewolfe Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Only bad players are anti combat logs. If your good you have nothing to worry about. Its the bad players knowing they would be called out on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Put generally, SWTOR's design philosphy better encourages playing a character as opposed to an avatar. Develops a persona to progress through the story as opposed to tweaking a combat entity for competitve play.That's no more true of TOR than most other MMO's, including WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Only bad players are anti combat logs. If your good you have nothing to worry about. Its the bad players knowing they would be called out on it! Nah, I for one hate the drama that goes on when these tools become an issue. Whether it effects me or not, being in a group and listening to the inane bickering revolving around detailed damage output drives me mad. I have not experienced that once in this game and am glad they are keeping it to a minimum as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 actually... there are people that claim to be good that don't like the bickering that they blame on combat logs. But I don't think that anyone has offered up any objective evidence that any of the people disagreeing with full combat logs are good. I'm not saying that they're all bad... just that we don't know that the set of people you're talking about is actually non-empty. I have played with good and bad players. I have had bad players love logs and good players hate them. The categories good/bad player does not determine their view on combat logs as the other poster tried to state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vexev Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 YES on combat logs YES on threat meters If you dont care or want to know who was standing in fire and wiping the group...guess what its probably you! wiping on boarding party's first HM boss because people cant seem to figure out why they are dying over and over and over is my main reason for wanting a combat log. in my soon to be perceived elitist jerks attitude humble opinion (imstbpejaho) just give the care bears the option to turn it off and they can level another alt in stead of failing at endgame content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Consent is something someone must give. If by joinging a group, your consent is removed, then it's not consent. No, if that were to open up your information, and you're aware of that, then your consent is given. It hasn't been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekloffin Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 actually... there are people that claim to be good that don't like the bickering that they blame on combat logs. But I don't think that anyone has offered up any objective evidence that any of the people disagreeing with full combat logs are good. I'm not saying that they're all bad... just that we don't know that the set of people you're talking about is actually non-empty. And no one has offered up any objective evidence they aren't. However, many have claimed they are. So, in absence of any evidence that all of them are lying, I would put the favorable odds on at least some of them telling the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 The categories good/bad player does not determine their view on combat logs as the other poster tried to state.I'm not saying that it does; I'm just pointing out that we lack any objective evidence to the contrary. The fact that I'm personally convinced that he's wrong isn't objective evidence to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysith Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Trying going direct to this page: http://poll.pollcode.com/f28b Ah thanks, this link works compared to the OP. Edited March 8, 2012 by Elysith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 It removes the pesonal choice to preempt the tool from griefing with log data, because he can log it without consent.No, noone can log it without consent under that guy's proposal; so no choice is removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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