Why make PVP non PVE viable?

[Coyotecalls]

Maybe I'm just missing the obvious but I don't get why gear earned in PVP shouldn't be viable for PVE..

 

I -HATE- PVE with a seething passion because it is so much running around crossing the zone back and forth, back and forth, I spend more time on my speeder than I do actually playing the game it seems. So I wanted to level in PVP as much as I could, get to 50, get PVP gear and raid with my friends... So I could, you know, enjoy the game and not have to do stupid grind quests. I like playing PVP because I'm playing against PEOPLE and people are more challenging than mobs.

 

In my opinion PVE is WAY to easy and boring. Go over there, kill that, push that button, travel back across the map then travel back to the other side of the map to kill more mobs that you just killed because you didn't know you needed a datapad off of one of them... It's just stupid.

 

So why am I being punished for wanting to play the aspect of the MMO where I interact with -people- instead of program? You do know what the MM part stands for right?

 

PVP gear is harder to get, you make less credits, you get ZERO crafting resources while leveling and you get zero social points even in a premade.. So.. yeah... why is my gear being nerfed too? Why are the devs trying to create a divide between those of us who like a challenge and those of you who like the PVE aspect of the game?

 

The devs talk about the gear gap when a PVPer enters PVE and vice versa. How horrible the grind is.. so you think making PVP gear have PVP only stats is going to make it better? Can -anyone- explain the logic to me?

 

Seriously? Do the devs think for themselves at all or do they just mimic WoW without even considering any other option?

 

Hint: If the PVP gear had the same stats as the PVE gear but with a different mesh so it is visibly distinct there wouldn't be a gear gap. People could play whatever part of the game they thought was fun. You remember fun right? The thing that makes us keep paying you?

Edited March 6, 2012 by Coyotecalls

[aZShiftyZa]

I'm in full champ and BM and do just fine in PVE. My rotation is different obviously but my dmg is just as good as most in tier 2 and 3 PVE gear. Edited March 6, 2012 by aZShiftyZa

[Dannicus]

There is absolutely zero logic behind PVP stats. I wish Expertise would be gotten rid off and for PVP sets to have stats and bonuses suited towards PVP. I'd like to be able to get into the raid game without needing to start from the beginning of an arbitrarily separate treadmill.

 

PVP gear is good. PVP stats are bad.

[Coyotecalls]

I'm in full champ and BM and do just fine in PVE. My rotation is different obviously but my dmg is just as good as most in tier 2 and 3 PVE gear.

 

If you like PVE you need to start grinding gear now. They announced at the summit the devs are planning on making PVP gear sub-par for PVE.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Coyotecalls

[Semitote]

I'm guessing the future of PvP gear is Expertise completely replacing your primary stat. And then they can just make expertise enhance your primary stat in PvP combat as well as reduce the damage you take in PvP so PvE'ers can't roll ya. Boom. PvP gear sucks in PvE and every class gets a benefit from expertise. PvE gear stays the same as it is now for PvP just about. (Which is awful despite what some may claim.)

[Khoraji]

If you hate pve, why are you concerned about raiding? Edited March 6, 2012 by Khoraji

[Coyotecalls]

If you hate pve, why are you concerned about raiding?

 

Because I have RL friends who are in a raid guild and I would like to raid with -them-. It is the stupidity of fighting/talking to mobs that I dislike. If I wanted to watch a cinematic I would turn on netflix. My enjoyment comes from interacting with people. I like PVP because PEOPLE make it challenging. I like Raiding because PEOPLE work together as a team to take down a boss.

 

It is the PEOPLE that make the game fun.

Bioware seems to have forgotten this.

[Khoraji]

Because I have RL friends who are in a raid guild and I would like to raid with -them-. It is the stupidity of fighting/talking to mobs that I dislike. If I wanted to watch a cinematic I would turn on netflix. My enjoyment comes from interacting with people. I like PVP because PEOPLE make it challenging. I like Raiding because PEOPLE work together as a team to take down a boss.

 

It is the PEOPLE that make the game fun.

Bioware seems to have forgotten this.

 

Ok, then raid with them and get some pve gear...not that hard.

 

Doing PvP makes your character better at PvP

 

Doing PvE should make your character better at PvE.

 

how is this a bad thing?

[trakata]

When the devs said PVP gear would be sub-par to PVE (which to an extent it already is), they probably meant Nightmare mode Ops, right? My guess is new tier PVP gear will be just fine for normal and HM flashpoint/Ops.

[Nhaok]

I am not understanding.

 

 

If you hate pve then why do you want pvp gear to work in pve?

 

 

If you just hate leveling pve but want to end game raid... you can get to 50 in your oranges... and then raid normal for your pve gear. Also, you should have no problem with HM ops in champ gear.

 

Problem solved?

[LukeNounVerber]

This is the same reason they put in expertise in the first place. In many games player who ra.id pve come in tp pvp with far superior gear and pvp players get owned by people who spent relatively little effort in pvp. It goes both ways. If you pvp and all of a sudden you are in raid level pve gear then it sucks for those who play pve.

[HBninjaX]

I'm in almost full champ and I am doing EV and KP with my guild. I prefer PVP to PVE but I disagree with your assessment. My gear is working just fine. Granted my stats don't look as sexy as the Rakata cheese crew, but I am pulling my weight Edited March 6, 2012 by HBninjaX

[Coyotecalls]

Ok, then raid with them and get some pve gear...not that hard.

 

Doing PvP makes your character better at PvP

 

Doing PvE should make your character better at PvE.

 

how is this a bad thing?

 

My question is, why do you think that they -shouldn't- be the same?

Why split them up? How is it a -good- thing to drive a wedge between players?

Why do I have to play twice as long and have my friends carry me through PVE content until I get a SECOND set of gear?

 

The developers are saying how they are striving to make it easier for people who PVE to "Get into PVP" but then they are doing the very OPPOSITE of this by artificially creating another gear gap for PVEers to overcome.

 

I guess it comes down to what you want out of a game, I want to level to 50 and do stuff with my friends without having to do the amazingly boring quest grind. I want to have fun fighting and teaming with people to fight other people.

 

The developers need to realize that this kind of split if just going to drive people away from the game. They say they want people to enjoy all aspects of the game yet they continually find new ways to FORCE people to PVE.

 

Guys, you crafted a great story and continue to develop tools geared towards RP but you know what? I enjoyed the Sorc story line, all the rest have bored me to tears. Stop punishing me for enjoying interacting with people instead of robots.

[Coyotecalls]

I'm in almost full champ and I am doing EV and KP with my guild. I prefer PVP to PVE but I disagree with your assessment. My gear is working just fine. Granted my stats don't look as sexy as the Rakata cheese crew, but I am pulling my weight

 

Your gear is working fine -now- but when they roll out the "New PVP system" for the "Pre-season" your gear is going to change and have stats on it that only effect PVP.

 

Your "PVP Gear" is going to function better in PVP and be horrible in PVE.

 

They wouldn't do this unless people demand it so my question is why on earth would you want this?

[Barfman]

I am not understanding.

 

 

If you hate pve then why do you want pvp gear to work in pve?

 

 

If you just hate leveling pve but want to end game raid... you can get to 50 in your oranges... and then raid normal for your pve gear. Also, you should have no problem with HM ops in champ gear.

 

Problem solved?

 

Are you blind or just stupid? He already explained and like myself and many others. I like the MULTIPLAYER aspect of the game. I don't like doing all these mundane things most of which includes killing the same mob over and over and running around for hours, just so I can have appropriate gear to do end-game content, when/if I've already 'grinded" in the PvP area of the game... the one I like.

 

Now I don't want to be in every raid to attain gear to do harder raids where they actually need you instead of doing something I actually like.

[venjinze]

Maybe I'm just missing the obvious but I don't get why gear earned in PVP shouldn't be viable for PVE..

 

I -HATE- PVE with a seething passion because it is so much running around crossing the zone back and forth, back and forth, I spend more time on my speeder than I do actually playing the game it seems. So I wanted to level in PVP as much as I could, get to 50, get PVP gear and raid with my friends... So I could, you know, enjoy the game and not have to do stupid grind quests. I like playing PVP because I'm playing against PEOPLE and people are more challenging than mobs.

 

In my opinion PVE is WAY to easy and boring. Go over there, kill that, push that button, travel back across the map then travel back to the other side of the map to kill more mobs that you just killed because you didn't know you needed a datapad off of one of them... It's just stupid.

 

So why am I being punished for wanting to play the aspect of the MMO where I interact with -people- instead of program? You do know what the MM part stands for right?

 

PVP gear is harder to get, you make less credits, you get ZERO crafting resources while leveling and you get zero social points even in a premade.. So.. yeah... why is my gear being nerfed too? Why are the devs trying to create a divide between those of us who like a challenge and those of you who like the PVE aspect of the game?

 

The devs talk about the gear gap when a PVPer enters PVE and vice versa. How horrible the grind is.. so you think making PVP gear have PVP only stats is going to make it better? Can -anyone- explain the logic to me?

 

Seriously? Do the devs think for themselves at all or do they just mimic WoW without even considering any other option?

 

Hint: If the PVP gear had the same stats as the PVE gear but with a different mesh so it is visibly distinct there wouldn't be a gear gap. People could play whatever part of the game they thought was fun. You remember fun right? The thing that makes us keep paying you?

 

I don't understand your arguement. Why do you want PvP gear to have the same stats as PvE? So you can PvE? But you said you hate PvE? If everyone is using PvP gear, then we're all on the same playing field, is your arguement against using PvE gear in warzones?

[Coyotecalls]

This is the same reason they put in expertise in the first place.

In many games, players who raid pve come in to pvp with far superior gear and pvp players get owned by people who spent relatively little effort in pvp. It goes both ways. If you pvp and all of a sudden you are in raid level pve gear then it sucks for those who play pve.

 

 

So PVE gear and PVP gear were too different and it caused a conflict an they thought they would solve it by making them MORE different?

 

This is like saying "I have two buckets. One is 30 liters and one is 20 liters. The 20 liter bucket is half full. I need to balance the water so both buckets have 20 liters.

 

But the devs logic seems to be: Instead of moving water from the larger bucket into the smaller one creating ACTUAL balance I think I'll just fill half the smaller bucket with SAND. So everything is STILL imbalanced but people who like water will drink out of the large bucket and people who need mud can scoop some of the small bucket...

 

This is not balance. This is stupidity.

[Coyotecalls]

I don't understand your arguement. Why do you want PvP gear to have the same stats as PvE? So you can PvE? But you said you hate PvE? If everyone is using PvP gear, then we're all on the same playing field, is your arguement against using PvE gear in warzones?

 

Go back and read all of the posts. I explained why. I have RL friends who raid and I would like to join them.

 

I'm saying the gear should be the same so that people can choose. If they want to PVP their way to 50 they should be able to do it just as fast as people who PVE and have the same money and have the same supplies. Right now PVPers are getting -hosed-.

 

What would be so horribly wrong with people PVPing and getting gear that is the same as the high end raid gear? Or PVPing and getting the same amount of XP that someone would get if they are PVEing? What sin have the PVPers committed that -everything- they do is rewarded less than the people who go out and fight computer controlled mobs?

Edited March 6, 2012 by Coyotecalls

[Arkerus]

PvP gear is fine for normal mode.

[Dzhokhar]

All of this stupidness comes from WoW, where PvE raid content is so "difficult" that endgame PvE guilds have long and involved application processes with strict gear requirements.

 

Problem 1: If PvP gear was viable in PvE raids, PvE guilds would make the top-tier PvP gear mandatory for new members. (People would be required to PvP in order to Raid.)

 

Problem 2: If PvP gear was not viable in PvE raids (but didn't have any PvP-specific stats), people with PvE raid gear would dominate PvP. (People would be required to Raid in order to PvP.)

 

WoW solved Problems 1 and 2 by adding a PvP stat, which improved everyone's PvP performance while having no effect in PvE content. Essentially, PvP gear was supposed to be equal to (or slightly better than) Raid gear in PvP and no better than 5-man dungeon gear for Raiding. (Raiders didn't dominate PvP, and PvP gear was not required to join a Raiding guild.)

 

This solution was a bit of a hack in that it probably would have been possible to design PvE and PvP content so that each content type would share all of the same stats while requiring different distributions of those stats based on whether you're combating other players or Raid bosses, but such a scheme probably would have had to be designed in from the start and couldn't reasonably be implemented after the game was already released.

 

 

 

Personally, I'm not sure if any such model is necessary for SWTOR or not. At the moment, it seems like all of the PvE content is easy enough that the gear requirements and application processes that WoW raiding guilds had are unnecessary (making Expertise a solution to a problem that doesn't exist). That said, as BioWare releases new content, things could change and SWTOR could face the same issues WoW had; in which case, BioWare has implemented the solution before the problem manifests itself (which is better than what Blizzard did).

 

With Expertise, Bioware has followed the WoW model in their gear design, which I think was a lazy choice (as compared to smarter game design), and possibly an unnecessary choice (if SWTOR manages to avoid developing the gear snobbery that WoW has), but not necessarily a bad choice (in the event that SWTOR does develop the same problems as WoW, and/or a more comprehensive design strategy becomes too hard to balance).

[Jarreth]

The only way a wedge is driven between PvE and PvP players is by the players themselves.

 

Best in slot PvP gear should not be comparable to best in slot PvE gear for PvE.

 

Just like best in slot PvE gear should not be comparable to best in slot PvP gear for PvP.

 

Expertise is the method chosen to differentiate between the two. For some classes/specs though, just like in WoW, they can sometimes sneak by wearing PvE gear for PvP and shine quite well and vice versa for PvP gear/PvE.

 

They won't necessarily be "dominating" but they'll be doing far too well.

[TheGreatNeechi]

Oi...

 

PvP gear will get you started on endgame PvE. Is it and should it be sub-par for PvE? Absolutely, because PvE is sub-par for PvP (no Expertise, which is why we have Expertise). I've been doing PvE with my Champion gear and piecing together a PvE set. Yeah, I get stomped on by some bosses; I'm in PvP gear. But, it has enabled me to get started on endgame PvE by enabling me to stand half a decent chance in hard-modes.

 

I've actually used PvP as a stepping stone to get into PvE, and there is nothing wrong with that.

[Coyotecalls]

PvP gear is fine for normal mode.

 

Read the thread before you post. The developers are CHANGING the gear so your PVP gear will have it's primary stat ONLY effect players. They talked about it at the guild summit.

[Threskov]

Then join them from the beginning and start doing your hardmore flashpoints and normal ops youll be PvE ready in no times.

 

Also, you need 0 skills to get PvP gear for now. Try clearing nightmare SOA with random pugs. Wont happen.

[Dzhokhar]

Are you blind or just stupid? He already explained and like myself and many others. I like the MULTIPLAYER aspect of the game. I don't like doing all these mundane things most of which includes killing the same mob over and over and running around for hours, just so I can have appropriate gear to do end-game content, when/if I've already 'grinded" in the PvP area of the game... the one I like.

 

Now I don't want to be in every raid to attain gear to do harder raids where they actually need you instead of doing something I actually like.

 

It sounds like you just don't like Solo PvE content.

 

Assuming this is the case, you're in luck!

 

PvP gear and/or gear that you can easily acquire through the GTN should be sufficient to get you through hard-mode Flashpoints and/or normal-mode Operations. Through those two sets of (multiplayer) content, you should have no trouble gearing up for hard-mode Operations.