TetraCleric Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I don't want that, I want stats. I don't care if get owned or own someone else. I want to improve my toon in game and that's just visceral fluff. Then why are you PvPing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laokoon Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I don't want that, I want stats. I don't care if get owned or own someone else. I want to improve my toon in game and that's just visceral fluff. So you don't want to compete on skill? Most people would rather compete on skill. You are in the minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohnam Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 And people are getting tired of the MMO carrot model. They want things more competitive. If we wanted to play a FPS we'd be playing an FPS. I personally like hitting people with lightsabers until they die. Until they put out a real multiplayer sequel to Jedi Knight 2 this is the best we have. Are they really getting tired? Did not people have fun leveling their character? Improving your character is the best part of a mmo imo. So now we have to have a cap in pvp but pve does not? Great awesome, kill the game for people who like to progress through pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohnam Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Then why are you PvPing? Because other player are dynamic unlike static pve content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohnam Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 So you don't want to compete on skill? Most people would rather compete on skill. You are in the minority. I'm only in the minority because I'm willing to put hours and hours to become better and progress and not be lazy and expect it to be handed to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bantua Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'm very athletic. I played basketball in college. Now I shoot free throws 2 times a week. You have downs syndrome. You shoot free throws every day. Sometimes you hit the rim. Usually you miss everything. Who's better? Just re-read what the hell you typed...makes no fcking sense.....you obviously missed the point of the analogy...That the person who practices more should obviously be better....You sure you went to college? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Are they really getting tired? Did not people have fun leveling their character? Improving your character is the best part of a mmo imo. So now we have to have a cap in pvp but pve does not? Great awesome, kill the game for people who like to progress through pvp. Yes, we all liked the leveling experience. Except that wasn't PvP, now was it? Improving your character is part of the PvE MMO experience. No one is suggesting that should change. MMO PvP is almost a completely different genre, but it has far too many of the bad PvE mechanics dragging it down. Edited March 6, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohnam Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Yes, we all liked the leveling experience. Except that wasn't PvP, now was it? I leveled through warzones and opened my abilities that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetraCleric Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Because other player are dynamic unlike static pve content. Normal PvP has the gear progression you are looking for. Sorry that Bioware wants competitive PvP, and as such is willing to actually make it competitive. Ever notice how in money tournaments for WoW, every player has the exact same gear? Isn't that weird? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) I leveled through warzones and opened my abilities that way. But the only thing you "improved" was unlocking abilities, due to 10-49 being on an even playing field stat-wise. You're not really helping your point any. Edited March 6, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laokoon Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'm only in the minority because I'm willing to put hours and hours to become better and progress and not be lazy and expect it to be handed to me. No, you are in the minority on this issue: would you prefer to have a PvP playing field that is determined based on your skill or on your gear? You want PvP competition to be based on gear. Most people want PvP competition to be based on skill. If you look at all human competition through history, going back to the ancient Olympics, teams were not allowed a gear advantage. It was a match up of skill v skill. You don't want that? Fine, you are in the minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohnam Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Just re-read what the hell you typed...makes no fcking sense.....you obviously missed the point of the analogy...That the person who practices more should obviously be better....You sure you went to college? People don't understand that playing a lot equal practice. It training, it working hard, its learning your class more and more. They think if you play a lot you should be punished since they are married and have kids. ***, I did my four years of college and got my cs degree and work hard. Just because I play a lot, help my guildies, give information to people on the forums I'm some loser. Just because I don't have obligations like other doesn't mean I live with my parents. Hell I pay for my mom retirement home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yutaa Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Are they really getting tired? Did not people have fun leveling their character? Improving your character is the best part of a mmo imo. So now we have to have a cap in pvp but pve does not? Great awesome, kill the game for people who like to progress through pvp. I guess every other game like CS, StarCraft, ect. and every other activity is dead for your because you can't have "gear progression". "Hey I'm playing chess for so long agains other players, can I have an extra bishop for better progression?". "Can my zerlings start with 2nd tier upgrade, I'm starcraft vet. Or I will unsub." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohnam Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 But the only thing you "improved" was unlocking abilities, due to 10-49 being on an even playing field stat-wise. You're not really helping your point any. I also bought pvp gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudmungus Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Hardcore doesn't mean you're good. Hardcore means you don't have anything else going on in your life and can spend 15 hours a day at your keyboard. Hardcore means you have little of value in your life aside from the character you created. The game is the one place where you can have something that no one else does. It is the one place where others look up to you, and envy you for what you have. And when the devs open it up and allow everyone to have what the hardcores have, they don't feel like unique snowflakes anymore. They are right back to being average, just like they are in the real world. They never seem to learn that in these games, it's not about what you have, it's about making the most of what you got. This - within the context of the OP :. :: :. I don't want that, I want stats. I don't care if get owned or own someone else. I want to improve my toon in game and that's just visceral fluff. Improvement that makes things easier erodes claims of skill. Edited March 6, 2012 by Scudmungus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetraCleric Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 People don't understand that playing a lot equal practice. It training, it working hard, its learning your class more and more. They think if you play a lot you should be punished since they are married and have kids. ***, I did my four years of college and got my cs degree and work hard. Just because I play a lot, help my guildies, give information to people on the forums I'm some loser. Just because I don't have obligations like other doesn't mean I live with my parents. Hell I pay for my mom retirement home. http://ideas.time.com/2012/01/25/the-myth-of-practice-makes-perfect/ It's not how much you practice, but how you practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohnam Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I guess every other game like CS, StarCraft, ect. and every other activity is dead for your because you can't have "gear progression". "Hey I'm playing chess for so long agains other players, can I have an extra bishop for better progression?". "Can my zerlings start with 2nd tier upgrade, I'm starcraft vet. Or I will unsub." Once you put enough hours into them its no fun. I like to make my toon better. In those other games as soon as I log off I have to start from scratch again. Those game progression only last for that session. I want something where I can log back into and resume my progression. Single player games are no fun since the content is static and never changes while people strategies in mmo evolve over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudmungus Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Those game progression only last for that session. I want something where I can log back into and resume my progression. You can make your toon better. Practice. Play better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetraCleric Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Once you put enough hours into them its no fun. I like to make my toon better. In those other games as soon as I log off I have to start from scratch again. Those game progression only last for that session. I want something where I can log back into and resume my progression. Single player games are no fun since the content is static and never changes while people strategies in mmo evolve over time. Skill progression. Rank/Ladder progression. Tournament progression. Competitive PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohnam Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 This - within the context of the OP :. :: :. Improvement that makes things easier erodes claims of skill. Who said mmo are based on skills? It all dice rolling if I hit you or not unlike FP's. It on how you build your toon and how you operate him that gives you the advatage in the dice roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drduncan Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 People don't understand that playing a lot equal practice. It training, it working hard, its learning your class more and more. They think if you play a lot you should be punished since they are married and have kids. ***, I did my four years of college and got my cs degree and work hard. Just because I play a lot, help my guildies, give information to people on the forums I'm some loser. Just because I don't have obligations like other doesn't mean I live with my parents. Hell I pay for my mom retirement home. Lol wow If what you say is true,(practice makes you better) then why do you also need a rocket launcher to shoot at the archer just because you are already more "practiced". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Sookie Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 The point of rateds is for a competitive style PvP. That means normalization of gear, and advantages of skill. The people that want the carrot, don't have the carrot anywhere else, and they don't get enough self gratification from a rating. So these players want tangible rewards to show how "good" they are. The problem is some of those people want gear to separate themselves from others so they don't always have to be on top of their game to beat people because of gear disparity. I don't care either way, because at the end of the day, everyone that matters will have the same exact gear anyways, and skill will always come out on top. Now you are flat out assuming to know what other players motivations are. Surely you can see how wrong that is? There is pvp gear progression in "that other game" and it works just fine. There are A LOT of players who like that system. Don't you think "that other game" would have done away with it if the system wasn't popular? If the system has any sense then high rated players will face mostly other high rated players so the gear disparity will be small to non existant. And if Joe Casual want's to play on that level he can man up, get a group and try for a higher rating. By the time he will face fully geared groups his rating will be high enough so that he also has access to the gear. The Rated system is kind of a joke though which is why the gear will be handed out for free to every Joe Casual that merely enters the warzone. Wait and see. Even now there are barely any incentive to win a warzone apart from the daily as even losing a game will net you like 2500 valor. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bantua Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I think we are missing the point of entire thread.. 1. Is it fair that players who chose the route of PVP in this game have to be on the same playing field as someone who just started to PVP..in terms of gear?? 2. You cannot have been PVP'ing all this time and expect to get invites to Nightmare mode based on your fresh LVL 50 gear...and they dont lower or equalize OPS for that? 3. So why should new PVP'ers be able to get a curve to be able to compete with others who have done nothing to PVP... Read all the fresh 50 WZ QQ's..I just hit 50 and im dying so fast..Flip that to PVE..but they didnt do nothing to equalize that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudmungus Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Who said mmo are based on skills? It all dice rolling if I hit you or not unlike FP's. It on how you build your toon and how you operate him that gives you the advatage in the dice roll. Dice rolling constrained by player made choices. The quality of those choices is a skill. Skill is knowing when and where to roll the dice, within the context of MMORPGs .. o-o and Blood Bowl. To my mind, skill is not 'Winning due to weighting RNG rolls in your favour' through purchases, rather, it is winning through decisions born of careful consideration and timely execution. Again, within the context of this most MMORPGs Edited March 6, 2012 by Scudmungus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetraCleric Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Now you are flat out assuming to know what other players motivations are. Surely you can see how wrong that is? There is pvp gear progression in "that other game" and it works just fine. There are A LOT of players who like that system. Don't you think "that other game" would have done away with it if the system wasn't popular? If the system has any sense then high rated players will face mostly other high rated players so the gear disparity will be small to non existant. And if Joe Casual want's to play on that level he can man up, get a group and try for a higher rating. By the time he will face fully geared groups his rating will be high enough so that he also has access to the gear. The Rated system is kind of a joke though which is why the gear will be handed out for free to every Joe Casual that merely enters the warzone. Wait and see. Even now there are barely any incentive to win a warzone apart from the daily as even losing a game will net you like 2500 valor. lol You must be one of those players that never played on the Tournament realm, which actually makes you semi-hardcore. Edited March 6, 2012 by TetraCleric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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