So it's not ok for "hardcores" to have gear progression?

[Darth_Sookie]

What the hell are you QQ'ing for?

 

You want a gear treadmill, this game has a gear tread mill.

 

Dry your eyes and play mate.

 

Not for long it does. Come 1.2 they might as well hand full War Hero sets out to everyone.

[Bloodcharged]

I'm sorry AFKing in Ilum isn't progressing your character.

[Gwal]

I'm sorry AFKing in Ilum isn't progressing your character.

 

You obviously missed the bit between Empire strikes back and Return of the Jedi where Luke goes around picking up missiles to trade for his black Battlemaster robes.

[Darth_Sookie]

I'm sorry AFKing in Ilum isn't progressing your character.

 

It must be comforting to beleive that everyone higher ranked than you exploited/afked in Illum and wintraded or whatever.

I can assure you that me and most high ranked players on my server spent the absolute minimum amount of time in Illum possible to get the daily.

 

Ironically most high rated players spend most of their time doing premade warzones while the people AFking in Illum are? Causals?

[Darth_Sookie]

You obviously missed the bit between Empire strikes back and Return of the Jedi where Luke goes around picking up missiles to trade for his black Battlemaster robes.

 

 

That's not the kind of gear progression we are talking about. You all know it but can't help trolling.

[Xenon-se]

Should not really be any difference advance through pvp or pve.

 

Either we have a system that give you the best pvp and pve items mailed to you when you reach level 50 and players just do pvp and pve for the fun of it. Beating other players with their skill. Beating pve with their coordination.

 

Or we have a system where you advance through tiers of equipment based on time, skill and team play. The more time you spend doing pvp. The better your are at pvp. The more team play you put in pvp. The better equipment you get. Same for pve. The more time, skill and team play you put in pve - the better equipment you get.

 

And you have various degrees in between....

 

But saying that you should be rewarded with better equipment if you can co-ordinate 8 people several nights a week to push through pve content - but you should not be rewarded with better equipment if you co-ordinate 4 (or 8, if they ever let us queue up a full ops) people every night during a week to perfect your pve game play...? Thats just. Wrong. The driving force should be the same (the fun/challenge or the loot - or a mix of the two). PvP and PvE should just be two different methods to reach the same goal.

[Gwal]

That's not the kind of gear progression we are talking about. You all know it but can't help trolling.

 

This whole thread is trolling, why QQ about something that's not happening?

 

I'm only here to troll because WoW kiddies bite everytime.

 

(Sub runs out in 3 days, I will not be renewing)

Edited March 7, 2012 by Gwal

[Bloodcharged]

It must be comforting to beleive that everyone higher ranked than you exploited/afked in Illum and wintraded or whatever.

I can assure you that me and most high ranked players on my server spent the absolute minimum amount of time in Illum possible to get the daily.

 

Ironically most high rated players spend most of their time doing premade warzones while the people AFking in Illum are? Causals?

 

Referring to the people who are 82+ Valor Rank in which a majority of them exploited/win-traded/afked in Ilum to reach. Yes there are legit players who reached War Hero w/o exploiting but that number is very small compared to the number that exploited/win-traded.

[Trexcapades]

OP has it right. There should be some gear progression. When I turned level 50 I was slain. Now I'm BM and enjoy fighting other BM the most, but don't mind slaughtering fresh 50s. They are getting their up and comin's just like I did. So what? I put in a ton of hours playing for fun AND gear progression. Those that say MMORPGs are not about gear and that they're about fun with your friends etc, are just giving their personal opinion. Sure it is about those things also, but every RPG is about gear. Why did I play millions of hours of any RPG in my life? To get more awesome stuff so I could be a more awesome and powerful character.

 

I love grinding in PVP and feeling rewarded when I get new and BETTER gear. What is wrong with that?

 

I'm curious what all the trolls are saying. That there should be no gear progression for those individuals that play a lot and "earn" through the reward system Bioware has set up? They want to just jump in and be competitive right when they turn level 50? Go play Counter-strike or something.

[Koolmea]

Referring to the people who are 82+ Valor Rank in which a majority of them exploited/win-traded/afked in Ilum to reach. Yes there are legit players who reached War Hero w/o exploiting but that number is very small compared to the number that exploited/win-traded.

 

I do not encourage any type of cheating, but if the game allowed them to make faster valor, KUDOS to them. Im never complaining about them, even tho i see them running around with ranks 80+.

But to try to repair a mistake done earlier, by allowing any new 50, or 100% PVE'er to get to top gear, that I do not accept. I will not shout loud and clear like the majority of forum users, that Im going to cancel the sub, it's going to be cancelled by itself anyway.

I will not stay in a game in which your progression consists in fairy rewards (colors and bold writing in warzone).

As we respect the PVE players, that have Rakata gear for which they did soo many Operations, I want us to get the same respect in return for playing my free 3hours/day PVP'ing.

[Mograr]

There are like 3 threads crying about this already.

 

Gear crutches in PvP are stupid, everyone should be relatively equal.

 

wow why peeps that want everyones equals dont go play a fps games damn u pay 15 box a month for this and i dont want this games to be like quake or games like this. theres is so many games where all peeps are equal and u dont have to pay 15 a month. thats a mmo and should be like the real life a bit ...sometimes you encounter strong sometimes you enconter weak.

 

like swg this games already sinking cause of the cry babies and dev will listen to them so everyone can get the same stuff as others no matter what...and so the real mmo players will quit cause they will see no difference from a fps games.. no challenge because everyone the same

[Helig]

The absolute BEST pvp game ever was Ultima Online - in that game every one was pretty much equal - save the few who had a rare weapon which gave you like a 1% advantage.

Hear, hear.

 

Modern MMOs are too damn gear-centric. It gives you a ridiculous advantage, and it's virtually impossible to lose (within the game mechanics - unless you sell\delete it).

Edited March 7, 2012 by Helig

[LenrocNewDawn]

Instead of bickering about which attitude is correct and in the process throwing insults over the discussed matter, you should all start asking that BW implements a gladiatorial style for the war-zones. What that means? When you queue for PvP you get to tick an option to enter an arena where everybody receives similar gear, stats wise (not necessarily same looks), for the duration of the war-zone. So you hate gear grind and bad elitist people (that are scrubs anyway, right?) then tick the option that will let you compete against other (successful real life, have to love that statement) people that only require skill to have fun.

Voila, everybody is happy. No need to take the carrot from carrot chasers or stick it up to guys that don't like carrots.

 

For the record I'm a semi-casual player that plays mostly nights after work and family duty and still got geared to 75% champion gear in about 4 weeks. Never left a warzone,never used a hack, never traded kills on Ilum or exploiting it. Did it the hard-way and enjoying it, guess I'm nuts that way.

BTW, next one that says I'm not competitive, although I've dinged 50 after bracket separation and had to claw my way up through battle-masters as a fresh fifty, will get the emotional version of this post .

Edited March 7, 2012 by LenrocNewDawn

[AstralProjection]

I think we are missing the point of entire thread..

1. Is it fair that players who chose the route of PVP in this game have to be on the same playing field as someone who just started to PVP..in terms of gear??

2. You cannot have been PVP'ing all this time and expect to get invites to Nightmare mode based on your fresh LVL 50 gear...and they dont lower or equalize OPS for that?

3. So why should new PVP'ers be able to get a curve to be able to compete with others who have done nothing to PVP...

Read all the fresh 50 WZ QQ's..I just hit 50 and im dying so fast..Flip that to PVE..but they didnt do nothing to equalize that...

 

Because there's nothing to be afraid of if they do, and a thousand rivers' worth of shed tears to prevent.

 

If you are afraid, you might not be as "hardcore" as you think.

[fungihoujo]

If you're such a hardcore pvper, you shouldn't need gear advantages to beat players who play less.

 

You're whining that the match is more competitive, which is just laughable, and why anyone who says they're hardcore pvper and also wants competitive pvp is lying, completely and utterly. If you're so good, you should be able to beat 99% of other players without effort even with equal gear.

 

 

But, thing is, you 'so called' hardcores are not actually that good, and once you lose that gear advantage and start getting owned, you can no longer say 'it's not the gear, you lose cuz you're bad'.

 

They have to face the fact that they're not that great at pvp, and all the while miss the irony of the situation.

[DarkDruidSS]

As an avid PvPer I have to agree that gear grinds for PvP are completely stupid community. The game is supposed to be about competition between teams/factions, not competition against gear.

 

Teams that work well together should be the deciding factor in every match. Not who has the most decked out battlemasters in their group.

 

Being a "hardcore" should be more about being in an elite PvP guild or ranked group instead of no lifing it and just having the best gear.

 

That's my opinion... from some one that has been PvPing for over 15 years in various games... MMOs and FPs alike.

[Koolmea]

As an avid PvPer I have to agree that gear grinds for PvP are completely stupid community. The game is supposed to be about competition between teams/factions, not competition against gear.

 

Teams that work well together should be the deciding factor in every match. Not who has the most decked out battlemasters in their group.

 

Being a "hardcore" should be more about being in an elite PvP guild or ranked group instead of no lifing it and just having the best gear.

 

That's my opinion... from some one that has been PvPing for over 15 years in various games... MMOs and FPs alike.

 

Talk about this kind of changes when you actually leveled one of your chars over 50.

Your opinion on this matter is equal to 0 since you didnt even reach 50 to see what kind of pvp grinding there is.

[Helig]

As an avid PvPer I have to agree that gear grinds for PvP are completely stupid community. The game is supposed to be about competition between teams/factions, not competition against gear.

 

Teams that work well together should be the deciding factor in every match. Not who has the most decked out battlemasters in their group.

 

Being a "hardcore" should be more about being in an elite PvP guild or ranked group instead of no lifing it and just having the best gear.

 

That's my opinion... from some one that has been PvPing for over 15 years in various games... MMOs and FPs alike.

 

I find the PvE vs PvP progression in ToR quite ironic.

 

PvE:

Lol, faceroll=>Easy=>Normal=>Hard

 

PvP

"OMG what the hell is this, I can't do anything" nightmare mode=>Hard=>Normal=>Easy=>Lol, faceroll vs the majority.

 

Without a very strict matching system (which is really applicable only to Arena-type small-scale PvP with huge pools of players), "exclusive" gear just increases the gap between good (actually good) players and mediocre players, and has all sorts of negative consequences for the PvP community.

 

Playing field must be even. Any "hardcore PvPer" who thinks otherwise might just want to maintain their "status quo", which doesn't speak well of their personal ability.

[AstralProjection]

As hard as it is for you to believe, some people derive fun from grinding out the best possible gear, and the challenge to get it makes it fun. Stating your opinions on a game doesn't constitute fact, and BioWare/EA catering to the casual playerbase is what's driving off so many of the hardcore PvPers.

 

Like I said, that's an okay thing. The people calling themselves hardcore that are afraid of an even playing field are kind of laughable. Let them leave, whether they think they're "hardcore" or not, I couldn't care less.

 

If you find grinds fun, go play a Korean game like RF Online. They're out there. Most people don't want a grind-fest, because they have things to do besides play all day.

 

What's been making this community feel like a cesspool for so long are the gangs of self-proclaimed hardcore PVPers haunting these forums, 90% of whom have supposedly cancelled their subs, insulting people with sad one-liners like "L2P".

 

If you've played lots of MMORPG's, you might have noticed the common thread - that the games without gear progression, or with minimal gear progression have the best communities hands down, and the most active and vibrant servers. While many of them lacked the IP's to draw people to them in the numbers that TOR does, they nonetheless serve as a great example of why gear is what's wrong with these games.

 

If the little golden twinkle in your eye is the only thing motivating you that's okay. Go fight the computer with your phat lewts. If you honestly think you need to stratify player stats in competitive play you must be blinded by your avarice, though. There's just no reason to need it, once there's a ranking system in place. "I want to feel like I'm achieving something". That's the whole point of the rating. It doesn't give you an advantage over someone else (no matter how minimal), just the bragging rights. If you can't give up the advantage, there must be a real reason besides "I deserve it". No, no you don't. Your extra playtime doesn't entitle your character to be inherently better than someone.

 

If YOU'RE inherently better than someone, prove it. With your rank, and your stats. Put up or shut up. Personally, I think most of these "scured" kiddies will quit before it gets that far, and use the laziness of other players as an excuse. I'd say they're a bunch of charlatans that are afraid the villagers are going to wise up about the snake oil they've been selling. How's that for an opinion?

 

I've been saying all along the "gear gap" in this game is a joke. It's easy to get, doesn't take skill, and isn't as bad as everyone's making it out to be. That's all the MORE reason to get rid of it! I did the grind with everyone else, had no problem getting wins as a fresh 50. I'm not asking for this for me. I'm asking for it for the good of the game.

 

The elitist attitudes that pervade the vocal minorities that flood MMO forums with useless posts are the DIRECT RESULT of a greed-based system. The only motivator designed into games like this and WoW which are entirely based on gear is the acquisition of more gear. Maybe I'm just not as distracted by shiny objects.

 

If you want to know how good someone is before you group with them, that's what friends' lists and guilds are for in MMORPG's. The people you put on it are a much better indicator of who you think are good PVPers than a HP number, an expertise rating, or a cosmetic title.

 

If you're scared of equalized gear, you're not as hardcore as you think you are. Maybe it's time the ones throwing it around all this time take their own advice, and "L2P".

Edited March 7, 2012 by AstralProjection

[Helig]

Like I said, that's an okay thing. <.............>

 

Excellent post. I wholeheartedly agree and approve.

 

Doublly agree with the community comment.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Helig

[LenrocNewDawn]

Very nice adds to the cesspool, Astral. Calling people laughable, sending them after phat lewts, telling them to leave and what to play makes for a very "constructive" post. Yes, the force is strong with you as you hold the undeniable truth. Sorry for the pointing but as you hate gear progression so I hate hypocrisy. Edited March 7, 2012 by LenrocNewDawn

[Darth_Sookie]

If you're such a hardcore pvper, you shouldn't need gear advantages to beat players who play less.

 

You're whining that the match is more competitive, which is just laughable, and why anyone who says they're hardcore pvper and also wants competitive pvp is lying, completely and utterly. If you're so good, you should be able to beat 99% of other players without effort even with equal gear.

 

 

But, thing is, you 'so called' hardcores are not actually that good, and once you lose that gear advantage and start getting owned, you can no longer say 'it's not the gear, you lose cuz you're bad'.

 

They have to face the fact that they're not that great at pvp, and all the while miss the irony of the situation.

 

That laughable "argument" has been adressed many times in this thread. You are simply picking an insult (you are bad) and presenting it as a fact.

 

We are talking about a rated PvP bracket where if you are successful you can get access to rated gear same as everyone else. If you are good, you get a high rating and play against other high rated players who have the SAME gear. This will give us an added incentive to play and in the end more fun. Every season we get a new goal and new gear to work towards.

 

We are the ones asking for rated games where gear is harder to acquire. If you managed to get that gear, it shows you successfully competed against other good, organized players to get it. You on the other hand want the gear merely to show up and not having to do anything.

 

Why are you afraid of the challange? Us "Hardcores" are welcoming the added difficulty and challanges a rated bracket present.

 

If we are so bad and you are so good you should have no problems acquiering the rated locked gear.

[Gwal]

Y hardcores QQ the most?

[BDutch]

We are talking about a rated PvP bracket where if you are successful you can get access to rated gear same as everyone else. If you are good, you get a high rating and play against other high rated players who have the SAME gear. This will give us an added incentive to play and in the end more fun. Every season we get a new goal and new gear to work towards.

 

If you're just creating a higher bracket for people with this special gear to play against other people with this special gear, then what is the point of the special gear? Why wouldn't a bracket with the rating requirement be sufficient, (if you're really OK with shrinking the pool of players you have to play with)?

 

If the math advantage/disadvantage is a wash anyway, then why is cosmetic gear not a sufficient reward?

[Darth_Sookie]

Y hardcores QQ the most?

 

We're not the ones flooding the forums with nerf and "champion gear is too hard to get" posts.

You have been crying since release about facing premades and getting rolled in PvP.

 

Atleast stick to the truth.