Why did Swtor turn into GW2?

[Karandor]

DAoC is probably the all time best PvP MMO ever made and the biggest hit it ever took to it's popularity was making extremely powerful items that you had to grind for in order to compete in PvP (F-you ToA expansion). So many people left the game over this that they put in "classic" servers without ToA in order to try to win back subs.

 

 

The gear in DAoC for PvP was 90% crafted with a few PvE pieces mixed in but not super necessary. In DAoC people who went all out for gear would get advantages in the 1-2% range. Gear was highly customizable and you could decide exactly what stats you wanted and all it cost was in game currency.

 

Progress in DAoC was through realm ranks which gave realm abilities, it could be a bit rough to start (but nothing compared to the gear hurdles in WoW and SWToR) but once you hit RR5 (basicallly a level 51) you were on even footing.

 

 

Making gear highly customizable for stat distribution should be what people want for progress NOT gear that is just plain better than others.

 

I have a BM and I got extremely bored in WZs where my group had a big gear advantage. The best WZs (IMO) are the close huttball matches where the game is tied 3-3 and one team wins by killing the opposing ball carrier with 10s left and managing to hold on to it for the win with some nice passing. Close games like that only happen when the gear is pretty equal.

[Delphis]

SWTOR will follow in WAR's footsteps and die, all games die, and lol if you thing GW2 will resemble GW1 in anything but names. GW2 will kill SWTOR subs(and many other games subs).

 

And for those like you that need a carrot to play a game instead of playing it because its fun, GW2 won't need you. How dare they make pvp based on skill and not gear then how can i faceroll undergeared players!!!1!! Continue to let your gear and carrot carry you.

 

This.

[Cuthkin]

Why doesn't Bioware just give out the PVE gear for the new NM encounters too? According to carebear logic everyone should be on equal footing, hardcore players shouldn't have better gear (lulz). I can't believe that people are excited that they are introducing welfare PVP epics. You should get gear based on wins and ratings. If you didn't grind to get the PVP gear tfb. I've never seen more carebears in any other game.

 

BM gear is already half useless as it is, since they want to stay around the 10% cap on expertise. If you can't own someone in your rakata at this point you should think about re-rolling and stop citing gear differences, RL Job, being a family man etc as to why you're getting stomped.

 

PVP gear shouldn't be handed out the same way that Raid gear shouldn't be handed out. You should have to work to get it, and they need to up the effect of expertise so raiders can't just come in and compete with raw stats and no expertise.

 

 

Yet another one that equates PvP to PvE. If one has to "grind" for gear to be better than other players, than it is clearly not skill that is the advantage. The gear grind was developed for Raids and other end game encounters to make them more interesting. It, otherwise, is a simple system of obtaining the best mechanics to beat an NPC encounter's "tricks". A system that easily becomes boring and repetitious without motivators like gear.

 

The entitlement argument is reversed in this thread, and others like it. The entitled are those who feel that the gear grind has won them the right to outperform other players. They continue to use the same arguments: "I expect to be pounded by other players when I first enter PvP at 50, since I did not earn the gear." They proclaim outrage that a new 50 "should simply be able to beat them". The frustration here is that someone has an advantage that cannot easily be defined by simple metrics like superior gear stats. This is the same mentality that leads to the use of steroids to obtain an advantage in professional sports.

 

PvP is like chess. Everyone can easily grasp how the parts move in a few sessions, but it is experience and natural talents that separate players, not the cars they drive, or the clothes they wear.

[nschlan]

What are you babbling about...Gw2 will die because it has no PvE whatsoever same reason Gw1 died

 

First off, GW1, at its peak, had close to 7 million active accounts and the main reason it's nowhere near that right now is because everyone is focusing on GW2. Second, GW1 had plenty of PvE. GW2 will have even more. Get a clue.

[daMarek]

So... so far the only complaints I saw is that PVP is too gear dependant and should be more skill dependant.

 

Now this thread?

[Darthtorn]

indeed...been a bm have full BM set...and have no issue with everyone having the same gear...you can qq all you, but I prefer a good fight...put everyone in BM...would be just fine with me....if you pvp for gear then go do ops.....if you pvp because you love to pvp(like me) then who gives a damn.

[Mr_Whiterabbit]

Ok, first off -- Your sig says you have 700 expertise. 700 is not optimal.

 

Second of all, gear will not be a "freebie". It takes around 2 weeks of dailies (and weeklies) to get full centurion gear, and around a month of dailies (and weeklies) for full champion gear (if you get 0 drops). It also takes quite a while to get full BM considering the RNG. Im guessing you are suggesting by letting BM tokens be purchasable makes it "freebie", but as someone just did the math it takes about 55 warzones to buy one.

 

Third -- Rift is still very much alive, and they even said they have more subs now than before SWTOR launched.

 

And lastly, they said there will be another pvp and pve set come 1.2.

 

That is all.

 

expertise is scaling better come 1.2 according to guild summit

[Panzerbase]

Lol, GW2 is going to crush this sorry game, why do you think they released it in beta form, it wasn't just to capture the Xmas rush, it was to avoid having to compete with any other MMO's. I guess they figured they would snatch up some players first then coast all the way to the bank. Well that's going to end in a train wreck, and the sooner the better.

 

200 million dollars and one of the greatest IP's in history and this is the best they could do? LOLOLOL.

[triangulate]

Gotta love these posts

OP needs to rush through all content and grind grind grind them WZ's dying thousands of times just so he can reach BM before anyone else and then let the gear hide his lack of skill.

 

People say that its the welfare generation that is killing PvP, maybe... but i don't think so.

 

I remember MMO's when there was NO PvP gear and you had to live or die by YOUR skill or lack there of.

I remember when your uberswordoforangeness could be taken from your lifeless hand by the guy that vanquished you.

People posting stuff about them beaing "hardcore" gamers because they got the best gear first and now everyone else must suffer the long grind before they can be on a par with them is just Bollox... you are just pretending to be PvP'ers.

 

A true PvP'er doesn't need a carrot to PvP, they don't need to be 20% above someone else in damage or defence.

A true PvP'er will fight anyone on a level playing field.

 

So stop calling yourselves PvP'ers because you got to BM first lol, getting there first means you are a no lifer... not a PvP'er lol.

I can tell you right now that alot of fresh 50's would obliterate most of the BM's i know if they both fought naked.

Needing to be the first to reach the "crutch" of BiS PvP gear does not in any way shape or form make you good.

[nschlan]

Gotta love these posts

OP needs to rush through all content and grind grind grind them WZ's dying thousands of times just so he can reach BM before anyone else and then let the gear hide his lack of skill.

 

People say that its the welfare generation that is killing PvP, maybe... but i don't think so.

 

I remember MMO's when there was NO PvP gear and you had to live or die by YOUR skill or lack there of.

I remember when your uberswordoforangeness could be taken from your lifeless hand by the guy that vanquished you.

People posting stuff about them beaing "hardcore" gamers because they got the best gear first and now everyone else must suffer the long grind before they can be on a par with them is just Bollox... you are just pretending to be PvP'ers.

 

A true PvP'er doesn't need a carrot to PvP, they don't need to be 20% above someone else in damage or defence.

A true PvP'er will fight anyone on a level playing field.

 

So stop calling yourselves PvP'ers because you got to BM first lol, getting there first means you are a no lifer... not a PvP'er lol.

I can tell you right now that alot of fresh 50's would obliterate most of the BM's i know if they both fought naked.

Needing to be the first to reach the "crutch" of BiS PvP gear does not in any way shape or form make you good.

 

This essentially. Real PvPers don't care about gear, they WANT an equal playing field where all that matters is skill.

[Srqt]

Patch 1.2 WarHero Set Requires no Rating thus free Best in slot for all if you are actual WarHero Rank you get a whole colored crystal...

 

Right you wont get WH hadned to you for just stitting in playing. You will have to play Ranked PvP matches and do well to buy your WH gear with Ranked WZ coms.

[GRINnBARRETT]

Back in the day ppl were willing to put time into earning gear, sadly now the entitlement generation has started playing mmo's and has ruined WOW and many other games.

The entitlement generation feels they should have everything right now with no work on a silver platter...

 

That word works both ways. You feel entitled to a gear advantage b/c you can play more than other people.

 

Think about the overall good of the game. The more people that pvp the better. Sure there will be some new people in there that don't know how to pvp. But that's better than staring at hour long queues which is what will happen if they allow a pimped out gear population to continuously own new subs. The new subs will eventually give up & go play something else. Trust me on this; go ask the ex-RIFT crowd.

[Capn_Barboza]

I love when people claim playing a game requires skill. Coding a game requires skill. Playing a sport requires skill... Playing a game requires lots of time to learn the abilities and hope the other person doesn't know their abilities. Dont overpower your lack of a real life by saying you have skill at playing a game.. It just doesn't exist sorry!

[Tremont]

If SWTOR ends up being 1/3 as good of a PvP game as GW2 I would be shocked...and I actually enjoy, at times, the PvP in SWTOR.

 

SWTOR has pretty much tryed to copy successful parts of many MMOs, so I guess it was just about time they got around to ones that will be their ultimate demise.

 

This is the most accurate thing I have read all night!

[Brendicus]

What are you babbling about...Gw2 will die because it has no PvE whatsoever same reason Gw1 died... And WoW is still going strong log into any server and you will see the major cities still packed...And is far as needing gear...Rated battlegrounds the best geared people fight other best geared people so i dont see this gear advantage you speak of...

 

And yet GW1 is more active than fully 3/4 the servers on SWTOR combined. Funny isn't it?

[fungihoujo]

Back in the day ppl were willing to put time into earning gear, sadly now the entitlement generation has started playing mmo's and has ruined WOW and many other games.

The entitlement generation feels they should have everything right now with no work on a silver platter...

 

Ironic- because it's the entitlement generation with no jobs, responsibilities and 15 hours a day to play mmos who are the only ones who can get the gear through 'hard work'.

[dschlan]

Back in the day ppl were willing to put time into earning gear, sadly now the entitlement generation has started playing mmo's and has ruined WOW and many other games.

The entitlement generation feels they should have everything right now with no work on a silver platter...

 

Back in the day, PvP was about competition and skill and killing the other team and, most importantly, fun. Now, all the PvE loot whores want gear progression to matter more than those things.

Edited April 5, 2012 by dschlan

[Brendicus]

I can say with all honesty the only reason pure pvpers care about gear is because they have to. I say make it all cosmetic so we can look pretty dominating you.

 

/swoon I think I'm in love.

[Lt_Latency]

it's better this way.

 

People want to play not grind to be competitive?? Maybe the could make another server type called grindcore. Where you only get one drop every week for people who like grinding.

[AK_Snowbat]

I'm from "back in the day" (Woo, MUDs!) and I have to say that it sounds retarded when people go on about how they put so much work into a valor rank and they deserve advantages in PvP. Really? Because grinding out valor is hard?

 

Serious PvPers don't give a **** about "working" for PvP gear because we want to fight the players, not their gear. I want to be a better player than the next guy and dominate him, not beat him because I started with a 10% advantage.

 

 

Same with me, I played the MUDs like Star Wars Shadow Wars etc.

I've played just about every mmo that's come out.

Every one had bad pvp becuase they listen to the minority who ***** the loudest...the hardcore pvp'ers.

 

If you are such a good pvper then you should win because of how good you are not because you played 50 hours this week and I played 2. We don't all have the freedom to live in our mom's basement while she pays for us..I have a job, a family...a life and this game is a footnote but i'd like to have fun when I play it.

 

PvP should be about skill...Bioware said that during devlopment and they caved during Beta B/C of the vocal minority.

[Lt_Latency]

And yet GW1 is more active than fully 3/4 the servers on SWTOR combined. Funny isn't it?

 

Can't really comapare F2P numbers to P2P.

[Noctournys]

If SWTOR ends up being 1/3 as good of a PvP game as GW2 I would be shocked...and I actually enjoy, at times, the PvP in SWTOR.

 

SWTOR has pretty much tryed to copy successful parts of many MMOs, so I guess it was just about time they got around to ones that will be their ultimate demise.

 

You're under the hugely mistaken impression that most of SWTOR's subs care about PvP. GW2 wont steal many subs from SWTOR, even if every person who PvPs seriously left for GW2 (which isnt going to happen anyway - ive got no intention of playing it, after how god-awful GW1 was).

[ShadowOfVey]

I predict 2 weeks after patch 1.2 is out people will be complaining that they weren't able to get full WH gear in all slots fast enough and died to better geared people between days 6-10.

[woahdude]

ok here we go i am the voice of reason

 

all old players that really grinded to valor 60 yes that sucks and i understand that low blow ( i didnt do that grind i started later). you should be entitled to something.. a title .. a mount ... some special color crystal.. or something you want you figure it out cause i dont know ..

 

as for the exploiters you get nadda

 

 

now for all you people who "earned it" you people play more than casual players.

 

yes i understand you devote more time to the game and are mad that people who dont get the same gear..

 

maybe you could get a different look of gear / skin + title to choose from and / or maybe +10 to your main stat

 

other than that you are sitting at your pc to get better gear so you can have an advantage.

 

isnt it better to know you owned someone in equal gear than a bm slamming a fresh 50.. cmon now thats like pro soccer player playing against a team with no feet

 

why would it be fair or fun for the people who work and go out get face rolled by people who poop in a bucket next to their chair and spit doritos at the screen when they get pwned?

 

pvp is skill based -

 

equal gear = fair battles

 

cant you all just stop clicking and bind your keys

Edited April 5, 2012 by woahdude

[aspectsofwar]

How about forum managers create a new subforum: "Guild War 2 Discussion"? Then moderators can move all these "guild wars awareness" posts in there and free us of this merciless advertisment spamming.

 

Because I am SICK of hearing ArenaNet employees, disguised as normal SWTOR players, droning on and on about guild wars. Sick, you hear me? Disgusted, even. I actually hate that game already, with a passion, just because of your constant hammering on how good it is going to be. If there is ONE game I could delete from existence, that would be guild wars 2. I just wish it dissapeared like a bad nightmare. And I had never heard about it before coming to SWTOR forums.

 

You must work for Bioware.

Edited April 5, 2012 by aspectsofwar