Can you please make it where a flashpoint can't be rushed through by avoiding all the bad guys? not only is it not very star wars'ish it's kinda lame to both the player and the developers... Seems stupid to go into a FP just to by pass 95% of the content and then leave. If all people want is gear and leave then make a combat arena FP where that's all it is. It'll get old just like the argent arena did in WoW.

I agree - my flash fire is a master, in a match i get 1st or second place for medals won. Now with bombers i spend almost the entire match shooting down drones and mines while getting blown up by other ships, mines, and drones. They don't miss, they bypass shields and they aren't even player controlled.. what's going to happen when they are mastered? Right now, who ever has the most bombers wins..period. These bombers needs to be nerfed to high hell, the railgun drones need to be able to miss and the missle drones need to be advoidable. These should be things that need to be defended to survive, like the gunsip was intended to be, not stand alone armies. Even when i play my own bomber..with 1 or 2 upgrades i get 1st or 2nd place and i never fire a shot..there's a problem here. GSF is no longer fun and was really the only reason i logged in anymore, now i find myself on the forums more than in-game.

Bioware never claimed that pvp was a bad thing..if they thought that they never would have added it. Noone is saying that pvp is bad thing, never came up in conversation. I also don't believe that this game or anyother major MMORPG that i can think of favors raiding over pvp or vica versa other than the argument that raiding gear advanced faster than pvp gear which is think is a bad thing..i still can't wrap my mind around the concept that putting a muscle shirt IRL will actually give your muscles vs a t-shrt in the sense that MMO's are convinced that this armor peice somehow makes you stronger than that one.. it's stupid. none the less, i never questioned pvps place in this or any other game nor did i reccmend changing a stat. My reccomendation was removing one from one group in an attempt to balace it with the rest. Which would be along the lines of the original hand shake made beween the designers and the community. The community will adapt, they always do however the more options you give the better the adaptation will be. Allowing raiders to pvp without starting at the bottom with the idea that a new shirt will make your guns do more damage and at the same time allowing a pvper to raid without the same issues. what a novel idea..which ever game does that will have happy players... SWtOR was going to be that game..and now they are no differant than any other..

your point wasn't based on a games living or not..your point was "no game company ever or will ever..." so..yes, my point was made. SWG was an awesome game PRE-CU and PRE-NGE so... you're point is as made as an uncooked cake.. point...still made

Sales courses don't teach genetics nor do they really care.. the American mind is the mind of the American..despite genetic history. As must of this post really has nothing to do with what people will are will not pay for subs fees i have to ask... *** are you talking about?

Star Wars Galaxies did it...twice point made

this is stupid with these bombers... you spend the entire match playing clean up from the crap they drop..only to die from other crap they drop. And forget about trying to start GSF on a new toon..you may aswell forget about it with these bombers, you don't stand a chance. Bomber = win button now juts like the OP gunships were before. Programs think in terms of fun while "hard core" aka douches think in terms of exploiting... and that's what we have here another overuse of a single idea when it's 10 fighters vs 5 bombers we lose bombers need a serious nerf the stuff they drop needs to be more visiable and advoidable..

bombers? really? are you going to let missles do their own thing next where we can fire them willy nilly and they'll find their own targets? hell if all i had to do to win was fly in a circle and right click over and over i have rolled a bomber sooner.. serisously bioware... if they were to OP on the test server why would they be less OP now..after you changed nothing. it's hard enough for a new player to actually want to play a GSF game since there is..for some reason..such a massive difference between two exact same ships .. (i served in the military for 12.5 years and my crap didn't get better just cause i was in longer) but now the new players don't stand a chance. Players in these team death match games are literly warping in, cutting engines and sitting at the capital ships waiting for it to end so they can, hopefully one day, upgrade their ship enough to survive combat long enough to actually hit someone. Game after game they have advanced players vs our "2-shippers" and we'll end the game with 5/6 of the players 0 kills 0 assists... what's the addiction on MMO's for such a gear gap? why? what's the point and where's the fun? i reccomend ya'll devs go back to all your pre-launch info releases...read what you said...then do that. that's why a lot of us came...and even more left..

u mad bro? what's your point? both of our numbers are used to make our point, yours isn't the same as mine. Am i required to stand up and /clap at your counting skills? i'm in sales, not bean counting so i look at trends and talk to people..you count beans... i'm not going to bow to your bean-ability, not going to happen. I stand by my assessment.

if it is, then i'm old school because i've been at it since it came about...

and yet others have, several other MMO's have to keep up with what their playerbase wants. it's a product of the beast that is gaming...get over it

never met one that could abuse me but i've had little trouble with them

okay, a couple of things.. i've got a fully upgraded scout so i'm not under geared. i was a combat arms instructor so i know how our armed forces operate now think how a gamer operates...me me me, it's a nice theory to assume that gamers will work together but quite honestly "a leaderless army is nothing more than a disorderly mob" comes to mind. who can hit harder with their hammer. Gamers don't work together, there's no respect, structure or organization. It's the way it is so that arrow thing isn't going to happen. The reality is that were getting killed by things and not players, they are new things and often you can see those things. Targeting is broke enough as it is compaired to games where you can lock onto what's in your sights so you can't tell what that is you're looking at until you get close. Truth be told, the bombers aren't the one's killing us, it's the things they drop..that's what need to be nerfed.

ya, gunships were already OP for close range and the ability to somehow stop on a dime in space..not this? bombers are way way to op..

that's my whole point, this whole week you've killed two.. i've been killed more by missle drones and mines these past two days then i have by fighters in the past 2 months

dude there are plunty of people that i've been engaging that will crash just to get out of me killing them

when ya'll had these on the PTR you pulled them out because they were OP..now you put them back in and it doesn't seem like you changed anything, they're still OP. the community that i've played with thus far is pretty unhappy about the fact that they have no weaknesses.. they take hits like a tank and drop mines as they fly in circles around the bases, you can't get in close enough for guns because the mines take you out and any damage you may have done is repaired by their drones. you've created another situation like we had with the gunships where the players used what they wanted and the exploiters (hard core as they call themselves) do whatever they do to make a sniper ship into a close range killing machine that can ... somehow .. stop on a dime. please either soften them up or increase the time between mine usage, weaken the damn mines so they aren't almost instant kill and lower their damn range for attraction and please add another sound for lock from missles to mines, can't tell the difference so i don't know if there's a stupid mine on me or another player.

so...ya'll point is "we want all MMO's to be exactly the same because we don't want people going to another MMO" cause that's all i seem to be seeing aside from excuses. if a world of look-a-lies...why stand out..

then you get an "A" for effort however you have nothing to base it off of but you're own assessments. so...it's alot of nothing for a lot of nothing.

gotta love how, even though it's not world of warcraft, you can still find trolls all over the place. who are you to say "it's never gona change" i've seen MMO's make larger changes with no reason. It's up to the devs, not you. Thus the post.

that's it then?

okay, a couple of things. First I do still play the game, i've played since beta and will likely keep playing. As i've said, this isn't about me of my desire to make the game easier for me, it's about making the game better on its own. Second I type these points on a 2nd computer WHILE I play, normally waiting for pvp ques. Lastly, the only arguments ya'll seem to make is: bolster, pvp gear is easy to get and expertise beats raid geat. If you actually read the original point you'll see that i'm not talking about removing the gear, in fact i said they should boot it to match raid gear and they can be equally as hard to get. This will hold true to their original promise that full time pvp can raid in pvp gear and vica versa with raiders. Expertise is the issue. Not gear, not bolster, a single stat whos lack of makes pvp pre-55 awesome and post 55 a slaughter to those who don't have it. In reguards to my opinon, i'm simply posting what i think based on questions I ask in general chat. I don't just come here and post out of emotion. If i have an idea I first ask the questoin in general chat of a few highly populated places to get the pulse of the community. Since most players and especially casual players don't post here it doesn't make me wrong. You have several players who are active in pre-55 pvp on alts who created those alts simply to pvp because they can't stand the time to kill in end game if you don't have the gear. Those players could be in end game shortening que times and adding diversity to the mix. Instead they re-roll over and over just to pvp in a place where they have fun. How is it that bolster without expertise (pre-55) has a longer T2K, healers aren't stronger than tanks, and you won't have a lvl 54 jump a lvl 35 and dance circles around them while stun locked and dead before you can figure out what to do next. (see this is the line where a "hard core troll" will say " you need to learn how to play your class because i can blah blah") Yet post 55, with bolster and expertise is a joke? The point is about fun for the normal player, not the hard core who plays every night and can get a full set of pvp gear in a weekend where they don't do anything else. This is about a few facts, the gamer community is aging. Those that started in the MMO world are finding themselves will less and less free time and are leaving the games because of crap lke this. The younger generations are split between several groups but the largest that are comming out are those who enjoy instant reward and the creative types who enjoy other than MMO games. Social interaction isn't thier thing because they weren't raised being forced outside to play with friends, they had the internet. MMO's aren't a novility anymore, Call of Duty gives them the same social interaction that MMO's gave us so diversity in game types is required to survive. That's the point of the free market. No matter how you look at it the MMO field is going to have to change to keep a certian audience and that will be a lower crowd then they wanted when they marketed their game. The hard core gamer has several to choose from while the casual gamer has few. Which is the better market? The causal gamer field puts more money into the entertainment market than the hard core because their numbers are larger. The casule gamer also tends to be a more loyal audience. Look at the gamers that stick with a game unti it's switched off, it's not hard core players. The other option is to morph into a game that we wouldn't reconize to suit these players while alienating the rest. We've already seen that with the fixed classes that almost all MMO's now have. Where you have several toons all with their own class as opposed to one toon who can change classes. This change, in part removed a portion of the social element from the game. When compaired to games like Star Wars Galaxies at launch where, if you were a troll or a goon you couldn't run from that, one toon per server was your only option. If you were a great crafter or a good tank you were known etc etc. Futher dumbing down is what will await if we cater to those instant reward players and soon this will be TF2 and it will die. Again, this isn't about me, my gear or my gameplay but a single stat and it's real need, or lack thereof in game

clearly they still dont. SWToR is now no different at end-game than any other MMO. Should I go into and, even though i was good at it a level ago, now get smashed because i don't have the gear? Let that smashing occur until i can get the gear to then allow myself to go into arenas and get smashed just so i can then get better gear? and do all of it before another set comes out. Ya, that's fun OR should i run flash points so i can get gear to run heroic flash points so i can get gear to run storyline raids so i can get gear to run heroic raids? yes, that's alot of fun too.... OR i can just make a new guy, get to level 10 and go back to when pvp was fun Yes all of that sounds like something that's vastly different than any other MMO. Hell you may as well play counter strike because nothing you do there seems to matter either. The point is that pvp from lvl 10 to level 54 doesn't have this handicap for those who play excessivly and yet, much to your surprise, people still play it and they enjoy it. Why do we need it at lvl 55? what's the real reason? The apease the vocal minority who will ****** if it isn't there, for some unknown reason. They feel that, since they play so much, they should be given a hadicap so they can smash new 55's because they lack the skill to do it outright. Remove the expertise and balance pvp gear with PvE gear. As the game was initially sold "players that want to pvp full-time and still run raids and players that PvE fulltime and want to PvP without issues now can by using the same set of gear"

again, ya'll are missing the point. This isn't about me whining but about me pointing out that the game is a shadow of what they sold and no different than any other MMO. What's the attractiveness? One person said "PVE would have a huge advantage" not if they balance the gear as they first inteded. another said along the lines of "grow up and accept it" to shorten to the point. i'm not asking for anything i wasn't actively talking about in WoW. Again, i mentioned that it was an attractive lure for this game at launch. Notice the activity at pre level 55 pvp then realize that there's no expertise at pre-55 and yet it's still fun and productive. People actually play it and quite often. One poster went to far to mention that he'll reroll just to advoid end game pvp, where's the fun in that? where's the desire to stay and keep playing at? Thus the title "fate of pvp in swtor" Ya'll are so quick to assume that i'm just someone whining when i'm actually trying to have an intelligent conversation. This isn't about me, what i want or what i'd like to make my life easier. In fact, my gunslinger is in full pvp gear for lvl 55, it's not all of the current set but it works. The point of the post was about my disire to see the game evolve into a competitive place in the MMO market. I feel there are several changes they can make but the first and best would be to stop this default action of catering to the vocal minority of hard core, end-game pvpers who feel they are the best but 50% of their "game" comes from their gear. If they were truly good at what they did they wouldn't need to sit here defending their handicap.

I"m not trying to derail anything nor am i trying to get something for free. To prove the point I went to Coor and asked the question "to all F2P players out there, would you be willing to sub if the monthly fee was reduced to $9.99 a month" and the answers provided were all yes. There were 111 people currently on the planet and i can assume that roughly 80% weren't reading chat at that moment and that's conservitive. That would drop it down to 21 people reading. 11 responded with yes which is more that 50% of those i assumed was reading and quite honestly high than i assumed were F2P. I then asked of the subscribers if they would consider opening a second account, subbing a current 2nd account or if they were thinking of leaving consider staying if the sub fee was dropped to said ammount and 6 people answered yes. That's 17 of the 21 people i assumed were actually paying attention. If you consider that EA would lose $5 per currently subbed account and consider 6 to the ammount you're looking at a lose of $30 however, if you add the $10 a month for the 11 accounts that responded they would sub you'd gain $110 a month for a net gain of $70. The math doesn't lie. Not a single person who was involved in the converstaion had a single thing negative to say about the prospect. Additionally i asked if they would be more inclined to spread the word about SWToR if the sub fee was reduced and all who answered again said yes. Which would lead to the assumption of more people playing. Another thing to consider is the browser looking for new games to play. I myself have been there several times since I started playing MMORPG's back in 2003. That point where you're burned out and go to MMORPG.com and browse what's out there. I personnally look at rating, price to buy and price per month. Games that were at $9.99 a month were far more attractive due to that pre-programed condition I mentioned in my original post and therefore was more likely to try those games first. In the end the best game won. Personnally, as someone who's gamed since Mario came out i tend ot stear away from F2P games in general because i always assume they are in a death spiral and/or are cheaply made Indy games. However seeing an optional sub fee is a newer idea and again, having a cheaper fee wins. That's the strength of the free market. I care about SWToR, it's a great game for what it is. It has a lot of strengths and a lot of weeknesses but it's one of the top MMO's on the market right now IMHO for what i'm looking for. I'd change a few things like removing Expertise at lvl 55 to make end-game pvp as much fun as pre-end game pvp but that's me. Either way, i'd like to see this game running for a lot of years and not end up like SWG which was switched off as a faint shadow of what it was on launch with no new good content to be seen.