This is troubling news about valor...

[_Pryor_]

The people have a life outside of the game folks should invest their time to get the gear..... It may take you months but you can still get there. If you want instant fun go play call of duty.

 

-1 internets for you. I did the grind and I'm happy to see these changes. Means less people made out of paper on my team.

Edited March 6, 2012 by _Pryor_

[AGoldCrayon]

And the MMO crowd ruined FPS games

 

 

The mmo crowd is demanding gear progression in fps games? When did this come about?

[mastersloup]

Hate to break it to you champ.

 

GW2 = 9 months minimum.

 

See you then.

 

try 3-4 months maximum

[StealthStalker]

-1 internets for you. I did the grind and I'm happy to see these changes. Means less people made out of paper on my team.

 

Exactly, though you seem to be in the minority which isn't really surprising. Most people found on the PvP boards aren't actually here for or are interested in competitive PvP. They're here for farming/completely outgearing their opponent who then pose no challenge.

Edited March 6, 2012 by StealthStalker

[Niaoru]

When I want to pick up in the random spot i left off a week ago and mindlessly kill people for fun, I go to an FPS. When I want to get rewarded for reaching a certain point in a game, or reaching a rating and see actual progression, I play MMOs.

 

With these new changes, it sounds like this is not MMO I am looking for. They seriously need to implement gear ratings for the new rated WZ system. Seems like there's really not much of a point to play.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Niaoru

[EpikWang]

Really?! This is the kind of elitist post that proves that the people who feel since they put in more time deserve the right to faceroll due to their gear crutch. The gear based pvp with huge gear gaps system is a total fail. Everyone knows it.

 

Like another poster said GW2 is going for balance and it is the first MMO to break the all about gear cycle.

 

People do have lives and can't spend all day gaming just to compete!!!! Anyone who thinks they are entitled to an advantage becuase they had the time to put in 15 days of playtime since launch needs to wake up.

 

Not saying gear and levels should be given out in a day, but these endless gear grinds where people are always behind the no lifers has been played out.

 

Glad to see BW wake up. Lets have more people BM have more competition and we will see the valor farmers and lowbie farmers QQ because they're not facerolling people anymore.

 

this is why people like you no matter what gear you have or get for free will alway's be on the bottom sure they'll give you whiners what you want

[rzrknight]

Why is this troubling?

 

Because you won't be rolfpawning people and EVERYONE will have the opportunity to the WAR Hero gear and people's talent will shine more than their gear.

 

This is a great way to effectively cancel out the valor farming that occurred and was never fixed.

 

I PVP for fun. The stuff that comes with it is icing on the cake.

 

Who knows what the Hero gear will look like or stat like and there is talk of being able to fit orange gear with pvp stuff.

 

PVP because it is fun. Grinding sounds like work.

 

This is a quite lame and shows your lack of understanding about how the whole game behaves.

 

Why would i waste my whole day , yeah some do this , getting something while i know another person is getting 1000 times what im getting by doing PvE for the same amount of time?

 

This is just a stupid system if it really works this way , takes all meaning for anyone PvPing and passes it to PvE.

 

The best part is , no there is NO skill requirement in the new gear, colors ... dont make me laugh ... i will lose every match to grind the gear faster and then go play PvE.

[-level-]

PvP isn't about progression, it's about competition.

 

PvE is about progression. Progressing through gear/content is part of the allure.

 

That fresh 50 will still have to run the rated WZ's and work for the War Hero gear, it's just easier to get on equal footing in PvP because that's what it's about.

 

Expertise/higher tier PvP gear doesn't exist to keep you ahead of the fresh entries to the PvP scene, it's there to keep your gear equal to or slightly better for PvP than PvE gear.

 

Rated WZ's have no progressive component?

 

If so then why bother rating them in the first place?

 

You start at 0 and progress up the ladder.

 

And you think pve isn't competitive?

 

A large part of that "allure" is downing some scripted mob first and being the first to have the gear rewards.

Edited March 6, 2012 by -level-

[StealthStalker]

When I want to pick up in the random spot i left off a week ago and mindlessly kill people for fun, I go to an FPS. When I want to get rewarded for my reaching a certain point in a game, or reaching a rating and see actual progression, I play MMOs.

 

With these new changes, it sounds like this is not MMO I am looking for. They seriously need to implement gear ratings for the new rated WZ system. Seems like there's really not much of a point to play.

 

You'll have ratings, that's your progression. There's no reason for gear to be included in that progression. Especially gear that's earned through time spent, not necessarily any other type of accomplishment. Appearances, Titles, Mounts, other unique things are more than enough incentive for me.

 

Gear being a determining factor just means less and less people are really able to jump in and give you a competitive run for your money as time goes on. Wouldn't you rather pit yourself against anyone who shows up to prove that your rating is really your rating, and not just your gear or how long you've been a subscriber?

 

I enjoy progressing in PvE and seeing PvE content, but I also enjoy PvP (DAoC, and Vanilla WoW prior to the Honor System being my favorites in that area, WAR an honorable mention).

 

Anything that promotes more people showing up to PvP (World, or Instanced) is not a bad thing to me. Ratings will separate the skill levels as time goes on, and the PvP gear/expertise will be there to ensure that PvE gear doesn't become a necessity.

 

As I said previously, PvP gear isn't about progression at all - it's about making sure anyone who purely PvP's in this game can continue to compete with PvE'ers. It's not there to create a gap or significant disadvantage for fresh 50's who also want to partake in PvP.

[StealthStalker]

Rated WZ's have no progressive component?

 

If so then why bother rating them in the first place?

 

You start at 0 and progress up the ladder.

 

And you think pve isn't competitive?

 

A large part of that "allure" is downing some scripted mob first and being the first to have the gear rewards.

 

The rating itself is the progression, not the gear... that's the point. The act of directly putting yourself against another player.

 

The gear exists to keep PvP gear equal, or slightly better than PvE gear for PvP.

 

Perhaps I worded what I said incorrectly, but surely you understand what I'm trying to get at.

Edited March 6, 2012 by StealthStalker

[Karandor]

Gear should be a small hill not a huge mountain in PvP.

 

 

I'm, personally, much more of a fan of DAoC/WAR style realm abilities that you unlock with PvP levels for PvP progression.

 

 

I have a Battlemaster toon and I'm happy that they're making the progression less time invested based and more skill based.

 

When I see people ***** about this sort of change in PvP I KNOW they have a huge gear crutch and are worried about how they'll do once there's an even slate.

[Niaoru]

You'll have ratings, that's your progression. There's no reason for gear to be included in that progression. Especially gear that's earned through time spent, not necessarily any other type of accomplishment. Appearances, Titles, Mounts, other unique things are more than enough incentive for me.

 

Gear being a determining factor just means less and less people are really able to jump in and give you a competitive run for your money as time goes on. Wouldn't you rather pit yourself against anyone who shows up to prove that your rating is really your rating, and not just your gear or how long you've been a subscriber?

 

I enjoy progressing in PvE and seeing PvE content, but I also enjoy PvP (DAoC, and Vanilla WoW prior to the Honor System being my favorites in that area, WAR an honorable mention).

 

Anything that promotes more people showing up to PvP (World, or Instanced) is not a bad thing to me. Ratings will separate the skill levels as time goes on, and the PvP gear/expertise will be there to ensure that PvE gear doesn't become a necessity.

 

As I said previously, PvP gear isn't about progression at all - it's about making sure anyone who purely PvP's in this game can continue to compete with PvE'ers. It's not there to create a gap or significant disadvantage for fresh 50's who also want to partake in PvP.

 

At the ratings that I play at, the people that I am against are not at that rating because they have the best gear, they are there because they are very very good. I have had people in my rated battleground groups mostly using the previous season's gear, and we still got the top .5%. Hell, I hit gladiator range in 3s with an alt paladin healer within the first few weeks, in literally mostly the blue PvP set.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is... If you are that good, the gear isn't going to matter as much as everyone is making it seem like.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Niaoru

[StealthStalker]

Gear should be a small hill not a huge mountain in PvP.

 

 

I'm, personally, much more of a fan of DAoC/WAR style realm abilities that you unlock with PvP levels for PvP progression.

 

 

I have a Battlemaster toon and I'm happy that they're making the progression less time invested based and more skill based.

 

When I see people ***** about this sort of change in PvP I KNOW they have a huge gear crutch and are worried about how they'll do once there's an even slate.

 

Yeah, I'd be quite supportive of some sort of Realm Ability system as well.

[-level-]

The rating itself is the progression, not the gear... that's the point. The competition of directly putting yourself against another player.

 

The gear exists to keep PvP gear equal, or slightly better than PvE gear for PvP.

 

Perhaps I worded what I said incorrectly, but surely you understand what I'm trying to get at.

 

I understand perfectly.

 

I am just turning your argument around on you.

 

Btw - who are you to determine why someone pvp's?

[Derian]

I guess this is the entitlement generation, and any amount of grinding or meaningful time investment is UNACCEPTABLE. MMo's used to be about building on your investments, showcasing what you've done over the years. Some of us are oldschool MMO'ers that are not into the welfare state of modern day gear giving and forgetting the founders of the game.

 

When you market a game as meaningful and every choice you make is important, like with Valor, and than tell us it's a useless and temp system that earns you almost NOTHING, it's a slap in the face.

 

This is 2012. I have real life to grind for stuff. The first graphical MMO, the first one I played, NWN on AOL. you could hit max level in a few hours if you knew what to do and had some simple help. These people paid six and three bucks an hour for an AOL connection, and PVP'd all day long and all night. MMOs aren't about wasting your life away. They are about the Massively part, first of all.

 

They were the founders. I'm from the same era, though I wouldn't call myself as much. They would slap you for wanting MMO to be about time invested, rather than a showcase of your skill. You are misconstruing what the founders enjoyed.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Derian

[StealthStalker]

At the ratings that I play at, the people that I am against are not at that rating because they have the best gear, they are there because they are very very good. I have had people in my rated battleground groups mostly using the previous season's gear, and we still got the top .5%. Hell, I hit gladiator range in 3s with an alt paladin healer within the first few weeks, in literally mostly the blue PvP set.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is... If you are that good, the gear isn't going to matter as much as everyone is making it seem like.

 

I get what you're saying, but I think the gear here is a much larger factor than there. I could be wrong though.

 

I think they've had a few years to work out the way gear works over there. I'm not familiar with the PvP gear system there since I left well before any arenas or rated warzones (midway through AQ40).

Edited March 6, 2012 by StealthStalker

[StealthStalker]

I understand perfectly.

 

I am just turning your argument around on you.

 

Btw - who are you to determine why someone pvp's?

 

I'm not, as I think I stated earlier somewhere in the thread, "if that's how you feel, that's okay". The point is that's not what Bioware has intended with the changes they're proposing, and I agree with them.

[Rogmar]

Valor rank 67 (Most of it is from WZs, Rank 60 pre-1.1):

I'm fine with this change. Will be easier to form teams with geared players, rather than waiting for them to grind valor rank. Also can play alts without grinding valor 60+ on each one.

 

Sucks that they're adding a new tier of gear though.

[Derian]

Yea. It's my fault for continuing to put my faith in Bioware, when patch after patch it was shattered by lies. The first time I saw them lie in the official patch notes, I should have just quit. I should have known nothing good can come of deceitful developers that make horrible game design decisions.(not only refering to the new gear not requiring valor 70)

 

I meant along the lines that doing anything as a grind, simply to gain a one up over the other, instead of doing something because it's fun, always always backfires in the long run. People who "grind" are doomed to a state of hating all the time they wasted. People leaving WoW is a sign of that. It is constant, and it will always happen. The day I feel like I'm doing a serious "Grind" is the day I quit doing anything. I did the same with EQ. I got my toon to 43 and got tired of it. It wasn't fun.

 

To grind for the sake of gain, IMO is insanity. Less people should do it.

 

I'm glad the new gear doesn't require Valor 70. Getting gear is an endless treadmill of fail and I quit MMOs for nearly a decade because of it. Let there be one MMO that doesn't follow that trend, for the love of god

[rzrknight]

At least you guys will get easy wins ... oh i remm the wow arena 4x4 days where all i did was queue and afked till the other team won.

 

Guess it is time to do the same in SWTOR.

[Derian]

Also, I would like to mention, if this new Gear is gained by doing well, or attaining certain levels of a rated zone, then how do you think you attain those levels? You practice, you SPEND TIME in order to get better. Rather then get a tangible piece of gear, your time spent, leads to more dominance, which then leads to the precious gear.

 

IMO The only welfare system is from those who think putzing around long enough, should get them gear that only true elite should get. Spending time does not equal elite, it just means you are spending time. If you want to spend time for the best stuff, there is something for that. It's called PVE.

[MrSteebin]

At least you guys will get easy wins ... oh i remm the wow arena 4x4 days where all i did was queue and afked till the other team won.

 

Guess it is time to do the same in SWTOR.

 

Yeah you could always do that in swtor...

 

Why are you now making such a big deal out of it when the system has been the same this whole time?

[Derian]

When I want to pick up in the random spot i left off a week ago and mindlessly kill people for fun, I go to an FPS. When I want to get rewarded for reaching a certain point in a game, or reaching a rating and see actual progression, I play MMOs.

 

With these new changes, it sounds like this is not MMO I am looking for. They seriously need to implement gear ratings for the new rated WZ system. Seems like there's really not much of a point to play.

 

Gear ratings and the like are not what their vision of a game is. They have said this a long time ago, and it was evident during closed beta. People who are looking for an experience like that, as it appears, are going to be very disappointed. Don't forget that this is Bioware.

[rzrknight]

Also, I would like to mention, if this new Gear is gained by doing well, or attaining certain levels of a rated zone, then how do you think you attain those levels? You practice, you SPEND TIME in order to get better. Rather then get a tangible piece of gear, your time spent, leads to more dominance, which then leads to the precious gear.

 

IMO The only welfare system is from those who think putzing around long enough, should get them gear that only true elite should get. Spending time does not equal elite, it just means you are spending time. If you want to spend time for the best stuff, there is something for that. It's called PVE.

 

hahaha mate you clearly did not read the patch note.

 

They say the gear , that mean the basic version so to say with stats X , will be attained bu doing the rated zones , NO restrictions to it.

 

By doing well you get: COLORS , CARS , POWERPUFF GIRLS STUFF ... basically FLUFF.

 

which means ... lose like a dog ... and be just as good as the guy dressed in black ... but yours is blue ... oh no.

[Slick]

Reading all the posts from people touting GW2, and say they are leaving when that drops cant be the same people upset with this change. in that game they have defined skills and level and gear that everyone uses.

 

this change is a step in that direction but with a little more depth in gear and time. seems like a minor change really.