Combat Log Format?

[Perringaiden]

So I made another thread after the Aus release, regarding comments on the combat log.

 

During the Ops panel, this was said:

 

Combat log will show everything incoming and outgoing to your character, that can be saved to disk. However, you can’t flag a button to see how everyone else is doing. Also, this will work out of game, not in.

 

So the Ops panel has answered 3 of the 4 questions regarding the combat log, so I have the one remaining BIG question.

 

What is the format of the combat log?

 

These combat logs will be parsed by external apps and websites, guaranteed. Since they're not viewable in game, I'm hoping that the contents of each event will therefore be described in a way that makes them much better for parsing than for simple reading. I don't expect many people will open up the text file and simply read line after line of a 7 minute fight.

 

In regards to what I mean about parsable logs, there's a big difference between:

 

JoeSchmo hit BossMan with DragonPunch for 300 Elemental damage (150 Absorbed)

 

and

 

{987-34-AX-2,"JoeSchmo"}, {B-1532,"BossMan"}, {342-545,"DragonPunch"}, 300, 6, 150

 

The first is a textual representation. Differentiating between two mobs with the same name is impossible, two spells with the same name is the same issue. Text parsing to determine which parts are what is troublesome etc.

 

The second is a CSV representation providing specific detail, which an application then re-interprets into a textual (and localisable) representation. This second method is much easier to work with when parsing data, and much easier to manage.

 

I'm hoping the combat log we get written to disk (or accessible from addons eventually) will be the second type, but in order to get a start on parsing tools, I'd love for BioWare to release the format early, or at least some details about the format.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Perringaiden

[Knewt]

The PTS will probably be up later this week. You'll get a chance to try it out very soon.

[Tarka]

If I understood the situation correctly, bioware are creating a potential security risk on peoples computers for having to rely on third party apps just to read the information.

 

Very disappointing.

[solidkjames]

If I understood the situation correctly, bioware are creating a potential security risk on peoples computers for having to rely on third party apps just to read the information.

 

Very disappointing.

 

Yeah Blizzard allowed Curse to sell out to hackers and did nothing to stop that. Bioware just needs to make a program to do it and keep all the gold farmers out of this game. I would prefer no mods made by third parties for this very reason, you can't trust people.

[Perringaiden]

If I understood the situation correctly, bioware are creating a potential security risk on peoples computers for having to rely on third party apps just to read the information.

 

Very disappointing.

 

You don't understand the situation then. BioWare is writing a text file to your computer. What you do after that, is a choice they leave up to you.

 

World of Logs is an independent site that you present your non-executable log to, that causes no security vulnerability, for WoW logs. Nothing says that a) you have to use a specific application, and b) you have to use any application at all.

 

If you choose to download and execute an application on your computer for any purpose, then you are responsible for the safeguard of your computer and the data on it. Anything else is a Nanny state, and just ridiculous. Expecting BioWare to be responsible is like saying that when you download an app that tracks your Crafting timers out of game, BioWare should protect you, or provide their own out of game app to track Crafting timers. The furthest BioWare needs to go is to say "If you use a 3rd party application, use a damn Virus Scanner ... or you're fool."

 

Anyway, back on topic, my intention is to provide parsing of files on a website, so that I can get my guildies to all submit their logs and we can put together a picture. No security vulnerabilities on your computer. To get started though, I need the format.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Perringaiden

[mufutiz]

people need to stop using the term combat log.

 

you get a trashy log file that you can look at after beating up a target dummy on your ship.

 

 

if you want a real time combat log to tell you the underlying metrics of the combat your character was involved in just a few seconds ago - not happening.

[Knewt]

Yeah Blizzard allowed Curse to sell out to hackers and did nothing to stop that.

Please stop. If you hate Blizzard, that's fine. But there is nothing Blizzard can do about a third party hosting site. If you used Curse or any other website on the Internet without having virus scan and malware protection, then the problem is with you, not Blizzard.

 

Bioware just needs to make a program to do it and keep all the gold farmers out of this game. I would prefer no mods made by third parties for this very reason, you can't trust people.

I hate to break this to you, but there are already credit farmers in TOR. I get mail every week or so offering to sell me credits cheap. Unfortunately, MMOs have little power to eradicate secondary markets like gold selling.

 

Anyhow, as I said earlier, 1.2 will be on the PTS soon. We'll have be able to see the format during testing.

[ferroz]

Text parsing to determine which parts are what is troublesome etc.

L2Regex...

 

Seriously, your text version is NOT hard to parse.

 

 

people need to stop using the term combat log.

 

you get a trashy log file that you can look at after beating up a target dummy on your ship.

That's a combat log; the term is being used correctly.

 

it may or may not include everything you want it to include, and it doesn't work in game in real time the way you want it to... but that doesn't make it not "a combat log".

Edited March 8, 2012 by ferroz

[ferroz]

If I understood the situation correctly, bioware are creating a potential security risk on peoples computers for having to rely on third party apps just to read the information.

 

Very disappointing.

you can choose to use 3rd party apps.

 

or you could write your own parser...

 

or parse it manually.

[MaverickXIV]

L2Regex...

 

Seriously, your text version is NOT hard to parse.

 

 

That's a combat log; the term is being used correctly.

 

it may or may not include everything you want it to include, and it doesn't work in game in real time the way you want it to... but that doesn't make it not "a combat log".

 

And if there's one programming practice that should be followed, it's making things harder for no gain.

[mufutiz]

L2Regex...

 

Seriously, your text version is NOT hard to parse.

 

 

That's a combat log; the term is being used correctly.

 

it may or may not include everything you want it to include, and it doesn't work in game in real time the way you want it to... but that doesn't make it not "a combat log".

 

 

technically it is a form of combat log of course, however it is mmo convention that the combat log is accessible through the game interface. Swtor is the only exception to that rule actually.

 

 

so for the sake of simplification calling swtors's combat log a "combat log text file you can access outside of the game" is easier and a far more accurate description, otherwise people could be mislead to expect a proper real time combat log ui element like they were supplied with in any other mmo they ever played.

Edited March 8, 2012 by mufutiz

[ferroz]

And if there's one programming practice that should be followed, it's making things harder for no gain.

I'm not sure exactly what you're driving at; but writing it out in the text format example makes it easier for humans to read, so there is a gain there. Edited March 8, 2012 by ferroz

[ferroz]

technically it is a form of combat log of course, however it is mmo convention that the combat log is accessible through the game interface. Swtor is the only exception to that rule actually.

No, there's a convention that they have a log of some sort; I'd say that most have an out of game parsable log rather than anything in game.

 

I think you've cited lotro as one that has that... what other mmos are you referring to that have that?

 

 

I mean, the term combat log refers to the fact that it's a log file of what happens in combat.

[Drewser]

So I made another thread after the Aus release, regarding comments on the combat log.

 

During the Ops panel, this was said:

 

 

 

So the Ops panel has answered 3 of the 4 questions regarding the combat log, so I have the one remaining BIG question.

 

What is the format of the combat log?

 

These combat logs will be parsed by external apps and websites, guaranteed. Since they're not viewable in game, I'm hoping that the contents of each event will therefore be described in a way that makes them much better for parsing than for simple reading. I don't expect many people will open up the text file and simply read line after line of a 7 minute fight.

 

In regards to what I mean about parsable logs, there's a big difference between:

 

JoeSchmo hit BossMan with DragonPunch for 300 Elemental damage (150 Absorbed)

 

and

 

{987-34-AX-2,"JoeSchmo"}, {B-1532,"BossMan"}, {342-545,"DragonPunch"}, 300, 6, 150

 

The first is a textual representation. Differentiating between two mobs with the same name is impossible, two spells with the same name is the same issue. Text parsing to determine which parts are what is troublesome etc.

 

The second is a CSV representation providing specific detail, which an application then re-interprets into a textual (and localisable) representation. This second method is much easier to work with when parsing data, and much easier to manage.

 

I'm hoping the combat log we get written to disk (or accessible from addons eventually) will be the second type, but in order to get a start on parsing tools, I'd love for BioWare to release the format early, or at least some details about the format.

 

There is an in game chat option as well, we just don't know what will be in it.

 

Here is one full quote:

 

What is the current stance on Operations? Threat meters, damage meters, combat logs, etc?

 

The stance is that we want to have reliance on the end game visual cues, not reliance on add ons. The stance is that we do want to have them in, but not for 1.2.

 

We do realize it’s very important, especially if you’re an Ops leader, to identify what are we doing wrong, on the other hand we want you to have control over what you choose to show for your character. As of 1.2, you will be able to put something in a chat window.

 

Combat log will show everything incoming and outgoing to your character, that can be saved to disk. However, you can’t flag a button to see how everyone else is doing. Also, this will work out of game, not in.

 

Then we have a slightly different answer to the same question:

 

Q: Metrics for Operations? When will we get threat meters and combat logs?

 

Gabe: We don't want to rely as much as meters, we want to rely more on visual in-game cues. We do want to have those metrics though. They're not in 1.2 though.

 

Georg: We do realize it is useful to figure out what is being done wrong. But we don't want to people to be able to go out and judge you. With 1.2 you will be able to enable a chat log feature that indicates what killed you or what you killed. We also will have a detailed parseable combat log able to be written to disc. The log will not be available in-game.

 

I have not been able to find a recording of the summit to go back and listen to what was stated again.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Drewser

[Etilrellim]

people need to stop using the term combat log.

 

you get a trashy log file that you can look at after beating up a target dummy on your ship.

 

 

if you want a real time combat log to tell you the underlying metrics of the combat your character was involved in just a few seconds ago - not happening.

 

You must not know how a Parser works. What do you think is going to happen with those log files? Can you say check your combat from a few secs ago?

[Drewser]

You must not know how a Parser works. What do you think is going to happen with those log files? Can you say check your combat from a few secs ago?

 

His big beef is you have to do it outside of the game.

 

Which may or may not be the case since they have talked about a chat option but not disclosed anything about it other than "what you killed and what killed you".

[J_Five]

Within a couple weeks you will have a separate program that will be able to parse your combat log in real time. The information will have to be stored somewhere in real time for it to be saved. I highly doubt that bioware is going to be storing 2 million + combat logs and then dumping them to your system when you log out.

 

If the combat log can be parsed in real time on one machine, then it can parse several at one time on several different machines. If you consistently run with the same group, all it would take is everyone running the same parsing app on their systems in game, and the metrics being transmitted to each other person at the same time. Think of it like Ventrilo, where one person speaks, everyone hears. The application would transmit and receive data in the same manner.

[netskink]

I wonder why anyone would want to read anyone's combat log when they are a text file. Last I heard a text file could be edited. If its not an in game combat log and the game does not open up an api then its useless. I assure you that it will be edited to show anything you want.

[mufutiz]

No, there's a convention that they have a log of some sort; I'd say that most have an out of game parsable log rather than anything in game.

 

By convention I meant I am not aware of one single, at least remotely popular game of this kind that does not have a combat log. If you say that most do not have an ingame log, please name an example. Just one

 

And all those games pretty clearly use the term "combat log" in regards to the ui element labeled "combat log" and not a text file you can save on your pc.

 

 

I think you've cited lotro as one that has that... what other mmos are you referring to that have that?

 

Every single one in the last decade and many before that even.

 

I mean, the term combat log refers to the fact that it's a log file of what happens in combat.

 

I am not talking about a log file though. I am talking about the real time log "file" that is directly displayed within the game client. That's what a combat log usually means in regards to modern MMO's, everything else is just semantics.

[Etilrellim]

I wonder why anyone would want to read anyone's combat log when they are a text file. Last I heard a text file could be edited. If its not an in game combat log and the game does not open up an api then its useless. I assure you that it will be edited to show anything you want.

 

 

 

The parser's like recount and many others turn that text file into something readable for people to understand. Syntactic analysis, is the process of analyzing a text log file. If you have seen recount or others post something you just read someones text file in "Laymen's terms".

[Vydor_HC]

I wonder why anyone would want to read anyone's combat log when they are a text file. Last I heard a text file could be edited. If its not an in game combat log and the game does not open up an api then its useless. I assure you that it will be edited to show anything you want.

 

It's a fairly common usage. ACT does this for many games combat log files, and they are generally accepted by the gaming community as valid.

[Moosimoo]

Within a couple weeks you will have a separate program that will be able to parse your combat log in real time. The information will have to be stored somewhere in real time for it to be saved. I highly doubt that bioware is going to be storing 2 million + combat logs and then dumping them to your system when you log out.

 

If the combat log can be parsed in real time on one machine, then it can parse several at one time on several different machines. If you consistently run with the same group, all it would take is everyone running the same parsing app on their systems in game, and the metrics being transmitted to each other person at the same time. Think of it like Ventrilo, where one person speaks, everyone hears. The application would transmit and receive data in the same manner.

 

You just described the Recount addon for WoW. Thats how it works, by communicating via discreet chat channels the information gleaned from each players' combat.

 

I am hoping the log will be realtime saved to the file, which means it should be easy enough to write an external app that will display details such as dps, hps etc reltime in a separate window. I use a second screen so this would be perfect for me.

[Perringaiden]

people need to stop using the term combat log.

 

you get a trashy log file that you can look at after beating up a target dummy on your ship.

 

 

if you want a real time combat log to tell you the underlying metrics of the combat your character was involved in just a few seconds ago - not happening.

 

Actually a 'combat log' is a log... of your combat....

 

A combat log that's only written to a text file is still a combat log. Just because its not a UI element that has a blow by blow account on screen, doesn't mean its not a combat log. You're applying the term exclusively to the method, not the content.

 

And all those games pretty clearly use the term "combat log" in regards to the ui element labeled "combat log" and not a text file you can save on your pc.

 

The /combatlog command in WoW turns on logging of all the things that happen to you in combat to a text file on disk. If your combat log isn't what gets written to disk, then what is? (And before anyone complains about using WOW as an example, its a 'remotely popular game of this kind')

 

I am not talking about a log file though. I am talking about the real time log "file" that is directly displayed within the game client. That's what a combat log usually means in regards to modern MMO's, everything else is just semantics.

 

If you have to put 'file' in inverted commas in order for us to understand what you're saying, maybe your using the wrong words

 

L2Regex...

 

Seriously, your text version is NOT hard to parse.

 

If you read the reason why human-readable text is bad, then you'd understand that its not because characters are hard to locate, but because there is not enough information in the text to properly differentiate similarly named elements of the fight. "Peon" #1 and "Peon" #2 both show up just as "Peon". By embedding all that information though, human-readabilty goes out the window. You can't have both, so you make it human-readable only when you need a human to read it, i.e. on the UI or after parsing.

 

.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Perringaiden

[Dayfax]

I read somewhere (!) that the log is going to be XML, but I have no idea if that was based on something from the Guild Summit or pure speculation from a player.

[MaverickXIV]

I read somewhere (!) that the log is going to be XML, but I have no idea if that was based on something from the Guild Summit or pure speculation from a player.

I believe that is going to be your custom UI that is saved in XML.

 

XML combat logs would be great, though.

 

Step 1: JAXB.

Step 2: Done.