Guild Summit: Mac users better really want it...

[Talizzar]

Boot camp come with the MAC OS you need to purchase a legal copy of Windows to run on the MAC.

[elvavwiel]

... You don't buy a mac to play video games, how hard can it be to know that after all these years.

 

 

Also, if bootcamp works there is no problem. You don't spend the 100$ just to play swtor, but for all the other video games.

 

Seriously, why buy a 'mac' for 1.5times the price of a similar pc if you want to play video games on it?

[Lethality]

The level of ignorance demonstrated by that one sentence is utterly ridiculous. Age has little bearing on experience in the computer world. I know a couple 20 year olds that would solder circles around you and I any day of the week..

 

It does when it comes to experience, because they simply cannot have as much as someone who has been doing it their entire life. And that's me.

[Lethality]

... You don't buy a mac to play video games, how hard can it be to know that after all these years.

 

 

Also, if bootcamp works there is no problem. You don't spend the 100$ just to play swtor, but for all the other video games.

 

Seriously, why buy a 'mac' for 1.5times the price of a similar pc if you want to play video games on it?

 

Here's a shocker than I know must be hard to understand for you: most people don't buy their computers based on games. As a matter of fact, only a fool would do that.

 

Additionally, many developers support the Mac natively - the best studios, actually. I'm gonna go with they know something. I can play every game I ever wanted to play on my Mac. Except TOR.

 

Boot Camp doesn't work without Windows. #200 isn't worth playing a single video game.

 

I use a Mac because it's better than anything else for everything do. But occasionally I also play a game.

[Kennkra]

At only 23 years old you have forgone the right to actually make those statements.

 

Presuming you mean "Windows", Macs have quite a lot of compatibility with "Microsoft" out of the box. They have for many years. Turn that Mac on after the OS is installed and you can read your Windows hard-drive. Run a utility or an application and you can even run any Window's program.

 

By the way, did you know that Microsoft used to use MacOS to design and refine many of their software programs? That the foundation apps included in MS Office had some of their most innovative early development under MacOS?

 

I was 20 when Macs were introduced. I used the first Apple 1 many years before that.

 

You've been building machines for 11 years. I've been building them for more than 22. That actually includes tearing apart and upgrading Macs as well.

 

So, do you really want someone who's been involved with both OSs since their beginnings to answer "What was APPLE before the iPhone?" Because I'll hazard a guess that you really won't like the answer.

 

 

 

 

Beyond all that, I use whichever computer tool is best for what I am wanting to do. And that varies.

 

We can continue to argue this point until we are blue in the face but one thing stands that so far I've not seen anyone point out.

 

EA has Mac native versions of many of their top-selling games. I expect that this game will be no different. They've seen the advantage of providing Mac versions time and time again. Why would this be any different?

 

Never though that someone can be so naive, ignorant and close minded.

 

And yes plz tell me what mac & apple where before iPhone o plz share your wisdom because how you state things in your post is obvious that you think you get more knowlege only by age, so if you are 35 (lets day) and i'm 23. If you are a dev you are peobavly de assembler guy that thinks he is superior to other object oriented devs just because you can write un c with ease.

 

And plz, again, tell me more about mac & apple before iPhone how they almost disqpear because of they incompatible soft, high prices and low productivity, how they move out of powerpc cpus to intel just because intel was more popular and thus more money for apple, tell me plz of how emac g3 performance was or his gamecube macs exploting of overheating, oh and please tell me more about those mac super computer that they sayd where more Powerfull than any personal computer while in the same sentence they said the specs and the cost ( usd 75000) and half the crow standar on their feet and leave, how their *** was sue to death by amd and intel because of that statment. And it was proven in cort that a 13435usd pc with and intel xeon cpu was faster on any aspect than the 75000usd mac, then they had tu cut the price in half

 

Oh plz onyx, the elder of the tribe enlightend me with your knowlege plz

[kjfett]

Mac users buy macs knowing they can't run 90% of the games on the market then QQ when they have to dual boot...well, guess what...been that way for a couple decades now. Why do you expect a company to just suddenly change that industry standard after all this time?

[Kennkra]

 

 

I use a Mac because it's better than anything else for everything do. But occasionally I also play a game.

 

Plz lethality dont troll so hard, some p actualy thinks you are stupid but you are just trolling, right?

 

And plz i build my computers based on:

Prices

Productivity

Looks

 

Making coffee is harder than instaling ram or a cpu. Macs and prebuilds are like microwaves for ppl that dont want to Learn how to cook.

[Toxen]

The same company who launched this "mmo" you speak of, didn't launch it for the mac untill way after launch.

 

/thread

 

Well, that's incorrect.

[Lethality]

Plz lethality dont troll so hard, some p actualy thinks you are stupid but you are just trolling, right?

 

And plz i build my computers based on:

Prices

Productivity

Looks

 

Making coffee is harder than instaling ram or a cpu. Macs and prebuilds are like microwaves for ppl that dont want to Learn how to cook.

 

Newsflash for you sparky: Mainstream PC users don't upgrade their machines either.

 

Mainstream users are the core market for this game. Not "gamers."

Edited March 15, 2012 by Lethality

[JacenHallis]

And yes plz tell me what mac & apple where before iPhone

It wasn't the iPhone that saved Apple. It was the iMac. You'd be surprised at how having an interesting case matters to people. Being able to do something as simple as choose a color can increase sales.

 

What the iPhone did was give Apple dominance in a market that was squarely aimed at business professionals. It also opened up the smartphone to more people who wouldn't ordinarily think of getting such a device.

 

The main problem with the Bootcamp solution is the price. Yes, Mac users will likely already have it on their machines, as it now is free with the OS. However, OEM and upgrade versions of Windows are invalid for such an implementation, and the cheapest version of Windows 7 (Vista should not be used, as it is a resource hog) is $200 for Home "Premium." The lack of features in that version of the OS, though, makes the $300 Professional pack a better choice. Three hundred dollars. For an operating system that's going to be supplanted in a year or so. If Microsoft would price their OS at a decent price point, I would be more comfortable saying, "Sorry, Mac guys. Go buy Windows." But, considering the outrageous price of the operating system, I can't say that in good conscience.

 

As a PC user, I believe there needs to be a native MacOS client for TOR. I think the wider the audience, the better. The main problem comes with DirectX, though. But if Blizzard can do it, so can Bioware. And, yes, Blizzard had the MacOS version of WoW on the discs when it first released. The box had listed OS options as Windows 2000/XP, Windows Vista and Macintosh.

 

image of release box: http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/534914-world-of-warcraft/images/box-5996

Edited March 15, 2012 by JacenHallis

[Drunkenfarmer]

The Biggest difference, for the average user, between Windows 7 Home Premium and the higher tiers is the amount of allowable RAM. That's it. Most Mac's don't hit the RAM cap on Home Premium, and even fewer need the encryption or the language packs. Hell, most home PC users don't really need the upgrade.

[Tool_of_Society]

Newsflash for you sparky: Mainstream PC users don't upgrade their machines either.

 

Mainstream users are the core market for this game. Not "gamers."

Absolutely and that's why newegg tigerdirect and other component sellers went bankrupt or quit selling computer components years ago..

 

 

It does when it comes to experience, because they simply cannot have as much as someone who has been doing it their entire life. And that's me.

Working on hardware all your life and relying upon that experience to work on it is different from knowing how to build the hardware itself like who I'm talking about. Edited March 15, 2012 by Tool_of_Society

[Onyx]

At only 23 years old you have forgone the right to actually make those statements.

 

The level of ignorance demonstrated by that one sentence is utterly ridiculous. Age has little bearing on experience in the computer world. I know a couple 20 year olds that would solder circles around you and I any day of the week..

 

And you took my comment out of context.

 

If you read (or read again) the comments to which I responded with that statement, it might be clearer.

 

That aside, the bearing that age has is first-hand experience. It is one thing to read history and draw conclusions from it and quite another to actually live through it. Knowledge and experience are two very different things.

 

I'm all for supporting talent, as well as learning from those who can give first-hand accounts. I know people half my age whom I know have a very full grasp on many things within the technological world we live in--a far better grasp than some who've experienced it. But, making statements in absolute based mainly on only what one has seen is where the problem lies. So yes, making erroneous comments and assumptions about historical information based only on today's status quo is indeed inaccurate.

[Onyx]

Never though that someone can be so naive, ignorant and close minded.

 

And yes plz tell me what mac & apple where before iPhone o plz share your wisdom because how you state things in your post is obvious that you think you get more knowlege only by age, so if you are 35 (lets day) and i'm 23. If you are a dev you are peobavly de assembler guy that thinks he is superior to other object oriented devs just because you can write un c with ease.

 

And plz, again, tell me more about mac & apple before iPhone how they almost disqpear because of they incompatible soft, high prices and low productivity, how they move out of powerpc cpus to intel just because intel was more popular and thus more money for apple, tell me plz of how emac g3 performance was or his gamecube macs exploting of overheating, oh and please tell me more about those mac super computer that they sayd where more Powerfull than any personal computer while in the same sentence they said the specs and the cost ( usd 75000) and half the crow standar on their feet and leave, how their *** was sue to death by amd and intel because of that statment. And it was proven in cort that a 13435usd pc with and intel xeon cpu was faster on any aspect than the 75000usd mac, then they had tu cut the price in half

 

Oh plz onyx, the elder of the tribe enlightend me with your knowlege plz

 

LOL!

 

Good grief. Assumptions much?

 

And of course commenting coherently would help a bit. And no, I'm not a C or assembly programmer lol. Nor am I a guy.

 

There are many things today which can be accomplished equally under Windows and MacOS. But that was not always the case. The entire world of desktop publishing was born and came of age under MacOS. For many, many, years Windows couldn't even compete in that arena.

 

As I mentioned in my earlier post, core elements of MS Office also fell under that umbrella. Excel and Powerpoint were both developed under and released for MacOS first. Word had a DOS version which was released shortly before the Mac version, however the Windows version came much later. In fact, the version numbering scheme for all three of them followed the Mac releases rather than the Windows versions. When MS finally converted those applications to a common version scheme, the Windows version numbers were brought in line with the Mac versions.

 

Several genre-breaking games also fall into that category, MYST being one of the biggest. It revolutionized computer gaming.

 

But it wasn't just Macs. Go back a few more years and you'll see that the first highly-successful personal computer was the Apple II. Go back several more and you'll find that the Apple I was the first graphically interactive microcomputer.

 

And of course I haven't even mentioned the Newton.

 

Short version? There's a lot more importance and innovation to what Apple has contributed than the iPhone.

 

Did they make a lot of mistakes along the way? Certainly. Did they tie their own hands with some of their practices? You bet. But do those things negate what else they've done? No.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Onyx

[Tool_of_Society]

And you took my comment out of context.

 

If you read (or read again) the comments to which I responded with that statement, it might be clearer.

 

That aside, the bearing that age has is first-hand experience. It is one thing to read history and draw conclusions from it and quite another to actually live through it. Knowledge and experience are two very different things.

 

I'm all for supporting talent, as well as learning from those who can give first-hand accounts. I know people half my age whom I know have a very full grasp on many things within the technological world we live in--a far better grasp than some who've experienced it. But, making statements in absolute based mainly on only what one has seen is where the problem lies. So yes, making erroneous comments and assumptions about historical information based only on today's status quo is indeed inaccurate.

What a load of sanctimonious crap..

[jaabber]

You tell me first: What does a PC do that a Mac can't?

 

open system

[Lethality]

open system

 

Who cares? Not the target market of games like TOR, that's for sure. PC owners do not upgrade their machines any more than Mac owners do. They simply buy another.

 

I know this might be hard for you to fathom, but you're in the teeny minority.

[Lethality]

What a load of sanctimonious crap..

 

And oh-so-true. Experience is different than age.

[Shyvre]

open system

 

Windows is no more open or closed than a OSX... Actually with BSD unix being the underpinnings of OSX I would say it may be more open.

[Dayfax]

open system

 

Open hardware, not open software.

 

Or wait .. Did MSFT release a chunk of Win 7 and IE 9 as open source, as AAPL has been doing for nearly a decade?

[NemoSD]

LOL!

 

Good grief. Assumptions much?

 

And of course commenting coherently would help a bit. And no, I'm not a C or assembly programmer lol. Nor am I a guy.

 

There are many things today which can be accomplished equally under Windows and MacOS. But that was not always the case. The entire world of desktop publishing was born and came of age under MacOS. For many, many, years Windows couldn't even compete in that arena.

 

As I mentioned in my earlier post, core elements of MS Office also fell under that umbrella. Excel and Powerpoint were both developed under and released for MacOS first. Word had a DOS version which was released shortly before the Mac version, however the Windows version came much later. In fact, the version numbering scheme for all three of them followed the Mac releases rather than the Windows versions. When MS finally converted those applications to a common version scheme, the Windows version numbers were brought in line with the Mac versions.

 

Several genre-breaking games also fall into that category, MYST being one of the biggest. It revolutionized computer gaming.

 

But it wasn't just Macs. Go back a few more years and you'll see that the first highly-successful personal computer was the Apple II. Go back several more and you'll find that the Apple I was the first graphically interactive microcomputer.

 

And of course I haven't even mentioned the Newton.

 

Short version? There's a lot more importance and innovation to what Apple has contributed than the iPhone.

 

Did they make a lot of mistakes along the way? Certainly. Did they tie their own hands with some of their practices? You bet. But do those things negate what else they've done? No.

 

Apple I, like all the computers of its day had a text based interface. Apple IIe was capable of displaying graphics, but its OS and interface was still text based. The Apple Lucy was the first computer to feature a GUI, and that GUI was licensed from Xerox. (It never saw public release due to technical issues.) The Mac OS that is used today was in large parts designed by Microsoft (mostly the cleaned up mouse interface.)

 

If you are going to say people are to young to talk about way back, then spout off some history... get the history right.

[Lethality]

Apple I, like all the computers of its day had a text based interface. Apple IIe was capable of displaying graphics, but its OS and interface was still text based. The Apple Lucy was the first computer to feature a GUI, and that GUI was licensed from Xerox. (It never saw public release due to technical issues.) The Mac OS that is used today was in large parts designed by Microsoft (mostly the cleaned up mouse interface.)

 

If you are going to say people are to young to talk about way back, then spout off some history... get the history right.

 

Oh the irony is so thick it's intoxicating.

 

Plus, the crazy is strong in this one.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Lethality

[Onyx]

Apple I, like all the computers of its day had a text based interface. Apple IIe was capable of displaying graphics, but its OS and interface was still text based. The Apple Lucy was the first computer to feature a GUI, and that GUI was licensed from Xerox. (It never saw public release due to technical issues.) The Mac OS that is used today was in large parts designed by Microsoft (mostly the cleaned up mouse interface.)

 

If you are going to say people are to young to talk about way back, then spout off some history... get the history right.

 

However I didn't say graphical interface or graphical user interface

 

Interactive, it's quite a bit different.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Onyx

[Onyx]

What a load of sanctimonious crap..

 

Yes, what you keep spouting falls into that category.

 

Gotta love it when someone doesn't bother to read the relevant comments, nor to review the responses, and instead focuses on the first few lines.

 

But it doesn't really matter, you pretty much proved my point lol.

[JSykes]

1- According to latest stats from statcounter, Mac OS X market share is between 8 and 15% in the markets targeted by Bioware for TOR foccial launches.

 

And that is overall marketshare : no need to be Einstein to know that Macs have a higher share among home users than i among businesses. Expect Mac OS X share to be higher when talking about home users and gaming population.

 

2- Bioware said several times thay needed 500 k subs to break even. They are more or less standing at 2 million accounts as of today. 10% of 2 million = 200 k. That's at the very least is the number of Mac players Bioware can expect to have onboard if a Mac OS X TOR native client is available. Maybe a big chunk of those players are already on board, using Bootcamp. But maybe not.

If an OS X native client is available, 200 k players will be interested (no reboot needed, no loss of 70 GB disk space, ni Windows licence to buy), and, will be probably ok to be charged 1 time for this client.

 

I can't see how the cost of porting the client to Mac wouldn't be covered by the number of customers either added or already playing and willing to pay for a Mac client.

 

Transcoding DX 9 instructions to OpenGL 2.1 ones are a tiny, tiny part of the game overall development costs.

 

The game is already running ok (albeit not sufficiently to PvP or do hard mode FPs and operations, or do red space missions) through Parallels Desktop on a recent Mac rig : the game engine is undoubtly pretty low on hardware requirement and I think the DX9 coding is easily wrappable in a transcoding layer without much performance loss...

 

Bioware can go the Cider port route pretty confidently or ask for a third party company (like Feral interactive) to do a Mac port for a rather small price (compared to the voice acting or server management costs...).

Your numbers are fancy and all... but you overlooked one critical point. That "200k" Bioware stands to gain, I'd wager my next months pay 60% are already on board with bootcamp. Sputter and cry all day, TOR isn't coming out for CrapOSX. The market isn't there outside of the people already playing via Bootcamp.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Wekeltes