Guild Summit: Mac users better really want it...

[Lethality]

Not every company wants to spend the extra dollars to write a whole new client for niche market. It's your price for picking Mac, and for wanting to be unique snowflakes just like all the other unique snowflakes.

 

Obviously, the Mac market is not a niche.

[Alric_Annondu]

Mac users are terrible and should atleast make the attempt to buy a PC, if they want to actually play this game. I built my friend's PC and he can play this game at max settings, and it only cost him about $450.

 

So, if you want to not bleed your wallet dry, try a PC. Cheaper, and easier to use TBH.

[ArkhamNative]

EDIT ; Oh and Apple CHOSE to lock themselves out of the market by forcing people to buy their hardware to get their OS.

 

But... Apple is principally a *hardware* company, and a very successful one. That's like saying Dell CHOSE not to let HP make its computers. Microsoft is mostly a software company. It truly is an apples vs oranges comparison.

 

(Currently Apple is the #1 smartphone manufacturer in the world, and #6 or so computer maker in the world if you don't count "pads" (iPad, Android tablets, Fire, Nook, etc.) as computers, and #1 if you do.)

Edited March 13, 2012 by ArkhamNative

[ArkhamNative]

To be honest, it really doesn't make any sense. If you're on a Mac running bootcamp, that itself is a solution to play SWTOR isnt it?

Sure it's a solution, but when developers make Mac versions, they sell, and bring in a lot more money than the cost to do the port. The world is full of "it shouldn't work, but it does". If Mac games weren't profitable, developers wouldn't keep making them, and certainly new developers, including indies, wouldn't also port to Mac.

 

MAC simply does not have the market share that makes development/publishing worth while.

It's not an all-or-nothing deal. If a developer wanted to make a Mac-only game, there would be fewer people to buy it, so they would have to budget accordingly. But developers can target a larger market (e.g. consoles) to make huge-budget games, and port to the smaller markets (Windows and Mac). The larger market pays for the game, the smaller markets pay for their ports, and both bring in profits.

[Laurien-Wriroh]

What concern, then, is it of yours what I decide to pay for my computer? Zero, that's what.

 

And millions of people seem to see the value that Apple provides... it's huge market, and as a mainstream entertainment software provider like BioWare, what you call an "emergent" market and precisely where you want to be poised for future growth of your business.

 

The only thing I've seen millions of people see in the value of Apple is the logo triggering in their minds I'm going to be trendy if I buy this and I'm going to look cool!! So millions throw away twice as much money for a logo on their Apple products.

[Lethality]

The only thing I've seen millions of people see in the value of Apple is the logo triggering in their minds I'm going to be trendy if I buy this and I'm going to look cool!! So millions throw away twice as much money for a logo on their Apple products.

 

If that's you're response, you'll never understand the value. Have fun at Wal-Mart and Golden Corral.

[BrunoLogan]

The only thing I've seen millions of people see in the value of Apple is the logo triggering in their minds I'm going to be trendy if I buy this and I'm going to look cool!! So millions throw away twice as much money for a logo on their Apple products.

 

It's not a just a logo thing, I can assure you. It's a different experience like using linux is another experience. The existence of choices can only be good. Unfortunately many people think the way you do. I don't buy an Apple product just because it looks cool. I buy because I like the way they build things may it be software or the devices and the experience they provide. Just that. In the end, you don't have to accept other people's choices. You only have to respect it just like you like yours to be respected.

[Wolfeisberg]

http://investor.apple.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1047469-97-6960&CIK=320193

 

And - Jobs said nothing of the sort.

 

oh really... http://activeden.net/forums/thread/just-in-steve-jobs-interview-today-in-d8-conference-2010-talks-about-his-letter-flash-on-mobile-devices-computers-and-a-few-other-things-started-at-jun-1st-2010-910pm-pst/27221

 

6:24PM Walt: It is a little surreal. I remember talking to you when you came back to Apple… the company was in bad shape. Steve: Oh it was on the rocks. We were 90 days from going bankrupt.

[Lethality]

oh really... http://activeden.net/forums/thread/just-in-steve-jobs-interview-today-in-d8-conference-2010-talks-about-his-letter-flash-on-mobile-devices-computers-and-a-few-other-things-started-at-jun-1st-2010-910pm-pst/27221

 

SEC Filings don't lie. They had plenty of cash.

 

Oh the company was in bad shape, only a fool would deny that. Point being, with billions in the bank, and the size of company Apple was even at that time, $150 million is not a saving throw, it doesn't even hit the weekly burn rate.

 

It was a merely a symbol. It was a vote of confidence by Microsoft that Apple needed, and got, to secure the belief of others.

 

Jobs crafted the single best turnaround ever in the history of business. To go from "almost out of business" to "largest valued company in the world" in 12 years is... amazing.

 

In other words, it wasn't the money Jobs needed or wanted, it was the confidence that instilled in others.

 

Masterful.

[Gyrovague]

Tell your friends to get a real gaming machine and leave the Mac's for multimedia.

 

Last I checked a video game counts as multimedia.

[BrunoLogan]

Last I checked a video game counts as multimedia.

 

Multimedia as in content creation. Games are entertainment.

[Tool_of_Society]

But... Apple is principally a *hardware* company, and a very successful one. That's like saying Dell CHOSE not to let HP make its computers. Microsoft is mostly a software company. It truly is an apples vs oranges comparison.

 

(Currently Apple is the #1 smartphone manufacturer in the world, and #6 or so computer maker in the world if you don't count "pads" (iPad, Android tablets, Fire, Nook, etc.) as computers, and #1 if you do.)

I wasn't the one that made the comparison/statement it was one of your fellow mac fans. You are correct that Apple decided to be a hardware manufacturer back then. Since Apple no longer really makes anything themselves that doesn't really apply anymore. These days they are just a design company

 

 

Originally Posted by Gerandar

Tell your friends to get a real gaming machine and leave the Mac's for multimedia.

The amount of stereotyping in this thread is amazing. The Apple fans act like Windows is stuck in the early 90s still and the Windows fans act like no one develops games for the Mac...

[Wolfeisberg]

 

 

The amount of stereotyping in this thread is amazing. The Apple fans act like Windows is stuck in the early 90s still and the Windows fans act like no one develops games for the Mac...

 

True.

 

Currently Mac only have 3 disadvantages when it comes to high end gaming that I can think of:

 

1- Pay about 2x the money for a Mac compared to an equivalent Windows machine

2- None to very little ability to upgrade the Mac without having to buy a completely new Mac

3- Have to buy Windows to be able to play any Non Mac game

[Lethality]

True.

 

Currently Mac only have 3 disadvantages when it comes to high end gaming that I can think of:

 

1- Pay about 2x the money for a Mac compared to an equivalent Windows machine

2- None to very little ability to upgrade the Mac without having to buy a completely new Mac

3- Have to buy Windows to be able to play any Non Mac game

 

1- Not true, and most of all irrelevant.

2- Shall I find the statistics on the percentage of PC owners who upgrade (more than just RAM and HD) as opposed to buy a new machine every 3-4 years?

3- That's not a disadvantage, it's a showstopper.

[Toxen]

Mac users are terrible and should atleast make the attempt to buy a PC, if they want to actually play this game. I built my friend's PC and he can play this game at max settings, and it only cost him about $450.

 

So, if you want to not bleed your wallet dry, try a PC. Cheaper, and easier to use TBH.

 

Many mac users, including myself, were already "born" into PC's and chose the Mac. It'll be hard convincing them to go back.

 

Personally, I don't hate PCs, Windows, or Bill Gates. I used them for years and got a lot out of them. Then I got a Mac, and got a lot out of it. And besides my Mac, I also have a Windows laptop and a desktop I built myself. Building PCs IS very rewarding and gives the user a better understand of how the machine he/she's using actually works. But at the end of the day, the Mac's where I keep my digital life: all my pics, videos, music, and yes even games. In the 5 or so years since i've had the Mac, SWTOR is the only game i've needed bootcamp for (and probably use it for GW2 when it comes out).

 

I don't hate having to use Bootcamp (other than the inconvenience of rebooting), cause as I've said: I don't hate Windows. Heck, Windows 7 on my Mac runs better than my PCs. It's like having your cake and eating it too. But the topic of this thread is about BW releasing a Mac client/port, and I am all for that. Every Mac user, if you give them a choice between using OSX or Windows, will choose OSX. I've thought about increasing the size of my Windows partition and just using it, but I know I'd miss the features of OS X too much. After all, that's part of the reason I bought a Mac.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Toxen

[Onyx]

And i told you one last thing, as a .net, java, asp, sql, abap, c, c#, c++ and objective-C I can tell you one thing, No developer out there, not a seroiusly one at least, buys a mac for his one projects or has a freaking mac at the office exept if he is actualy doing something FOR macs.

 

Macs have 0 compatibility out of the box with microsoft, but microsoft has done the imposible to be compatible with apple, they just dont like it.

 

 

And you rly forget something, What was APPLE before Iphone?

 

I'm 23y old and I'm have been building my own PC's since 12. Started developing at 15, and i only have a mac mini because of some "only mac" work. Fundation librarys outside mac? forget it apple will never let that happen.

 

At only 23 years old you have forgone the right to actually make those statements.

 

Presuming you mean "Windows", Macs have quite a lot of compatibility with "Microsoft" out of the box. They have for many years. Turn that Mac on after the OS is installed and you can read your Windows hard-drive. Run a utility or an application and you can even run any Window's program.

 

By the way, did you know that Microsoft used to use MacOS to design and refine many of their software programs? That the foundation apps included in MS Office had some of their most innovative early development under MacOS?

 

I was 20 when Macs were introduced. I used the first Apple 1 many years before that.

 

You've been building machines for 11 years. I've been building them for more than 22. That actually includes tearing apart and upgrading Macs as well.

 

So, do you really want someone who's been involved with both OSs since their beginnings to answer "What was APPLE before the iPhone?" Because I'll hazard a guess that you really won't like the answer.

 

 

 

 

Beyond all that, I use whichever computer tool is best for what I am wanting to do. And that varies.

 

We can continue to argue this point until we are blue in the face but one thing stands that so far I've not seen anyone point out.

 

EA has Mac native versions of many of their top-selling games. I expect that this game will be no different. They've seen the advantage of providing Mac versions time and time again. Why would this be any different?

Edited March 13, 2012 by Onyx

[Wolfeisberg]

1- Not true, and most of all irrelevant.

2- Shall I find the statistics on the percentage of PC owners who upgrade (more than just RAM and HD) as opposed to buy a new machine every 3-4 years?

3- That's not a disadvantage, it's a showstopper.

 

1- Actually it is true, as has been proven in this very thread, when it comes to high end gaming. For most people price is very relevant, especially when it comes to high end gaming. Don't even bring up Dell, they are just 1 company out of thousands that builds computers.

2- Are those statistics specific to High end gamers? They only polled the high end gamers? Cause the vast majority of the high end gamers that I know, either upgrade their computers themselves, or have someone else do it for them

3- Showstopper is still a disadvantage, and it being a showstopper is your opinion, there are many mac users who use Windows to play games, they probably rather be playing in Mac OS, but being Windows only doesn't stop them from playing the games they want or are able to play.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Wolfeisberg

[Lethality]

1- Actually it is true, as has been proven in this very thread, when it comes to high end gaming. For most people price is very relevant, especially when it comes to high end gaming. Don't even bring up Dell, they are just 1 company out of thousands that builds computers.

2- Are those statistics specific to High end gamers? They only polled the high end gamers? Cause the vast majority of the high end gamers that I know, either upgrade their computers themselves, or have someone else do it for them

3- Showstopper is still a disadvantage, and it being a showstopper is your opinion, there are many mac users who use Windows to play games, they probably rather be playing in Mac OS, but being Windows only doesn't stop them from playing the games they want or are able to play.

 

Hmm, maybe this is misunderstanding for you: MMOs do not require and will never require "high end gaming" rigs. Those "high end gamers" are not the target audience, and will be less and less so moving forward. Accessibility wins the day.

 

Back to everything I was talking about earlier... mainstream is going to trump gaming.

 

This thread though is about yes, there is more than enough market share to have an incredibly profitable Mac version of TOR for sale. And that remains true.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Lethality

[Lasani]

I can't brain why does Windows fanbots come here asking MAC users to get a Windows PC ?

 

This thread is not about it /facepalm

Edited March 14, 2012 by Lasani

[Limedust]

The only thing I've seen millions of people see in the value of Apple is the logo triggering in their minds I'm going to be trendy if I buy this and I'm going to look cool!! So millions throw away twice as much money for a logo on their Apple products.

 

Ah, so you have a unique insight into what millions think? Perhaps you're mistaken.

[Limedust]

I'd like to run SWTOR natively on OSX. I don't give a good flying **** what the rest of you think or why this may not happen. My desire to play in OSX has nothing to do with the arguments here.

 

I am, of course, used to disappointment too, so it's no great worry.

[Valketh]

First of all, those are not Jobs' words.

 

Second of all, what will you do when Apple renames Mac OS X to iOS Desktop and then suddenly, based on devices, utterly OWNS Windows in market share? There will be more people with an iOS system than Windows.

 

Think about it... where will developers go?

 

Exactly.

 

This guys is the biggest Apple fanboi I've EVER seen. If he doesn't work for Apple they need hire him as their PR guy and pep rally president!

[Tissu]

what if boiware stopped being c o m m u nist and make it for mac

[Tool_of_Society]

At only 23 years old you have forgone the right to actually make those statements.

The level of ignorance demonstrated by that one sentence is utterly ridiculous. Age has little bearing on experience in the computer world. I know a couple 20 year olds that would solder circles around you and I any day of the week..

 

 

 

what if boiware stopped being c o m m u nist and make it for mac

Great now the usage of catch all boogieman phrases from someone that doesn't even know what real communism is. Seriously just because you don't understand what a word means doesn't mean it's a scary word to everyone else..

[BOLTgamer]

Cause it's gonna cost ya. Yes, Bootcamp does allow you to run Windows programs. That's how I play the game...and i spent an extra $120 just for the privilege.

 

Right now a large number of players use Macs running Bootcamp, and they spent $100-$180 for the chance to play this game.

 

Some of us really love this game. We'd love to get some of our friends and family members to play...but they use Macs to.

 

Every time you say, as Daniel Erickson did during the Guild Summit Livestream, that "Bootcamp works just fine," while discussing making this game accessible to as many systems as possible is "you bought an expensive computer that can run this game like a champ....clearly you can afford another $100, and therefore you are not a priority market for us. On the other hand, letting your grandmother run it on her 10 year old PC is an important demographic."

 

I realize that creating a client for another system is harder than optimization for one system, but being so dismissive of a decent chunk of the population is not helpful, nor does it engender goodwill in the customers who did pay an extra $100-$180 just to play your game.

 

There is another MMO company out there (you may have heard of them...they dominate the industry) who has done near simultaneous releases since 1996 with the second of the franchise that launched the most successful MMO ever...and that MMO was also launched for both Windows and Mac simultaneously.

 

I understand if your answer is "not soon." It's a technical hurdle and you didn't build for it from the start (though you probably should have). However, saying "if you want to play it, go drop an extra hundred bucks for you, your spouse, and everyone else you know who you want to get into the game and happens to be Mac people" is quite insulting to hear.

 

The same company who launched this "mmo" you speak of, didn't launch it for the mac untill way after launch.

 

/thread