Tool_of_Society Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Stranger things have happened, but no, I'm not saying that. And yes, PC (Mac and Windows) resolutions are trending higher than 1080p, but consoles are limited to TV resolutions. Consoles and iOS games are where the consumers are, and therefore is where the money is to be made. And as developers gear up to develop for iOS, they're also building great Mac OS game developer skills, too.TVs resolutions are trending upwards too. Ten years ago your average TV was displaying stuff at 640x480 now the average set sold is capable of 1920x1080. Mostly a product of the HD wars amongst set manufacturers. Consoles themselves are money losers so the real money in consoles is as a third party developer. The reality is the consumers are still in the PC market as the sales revenue in that field dwarfs console sales. Although actual game sales vary keep in mind that PC developers don't have to pay royalties and such to develop so their costs are lower. I won't deny that primitive games such as farmville and angry birds are producing impressive sales so I sort of agree on your iOS comment. Wow... you are REALLY not getting it here. You're trying to compare Iphone sales to computer sales as an indication that gamers are switching to the Iphone OS and you say I'm not getting it? Without even trying, Apple put gaming machines in the hands of hundreds of millions of people that didn't even know they wanted one. The game developers saw the innovation Apple brought in hardware and software, and jumped on it. This statement made me laugh extremely hard. I don't know many mac users who actually use their mac to play games and even those guys are using bootcamp to do that. Mac has never been a serious gaming machine the selling point has always been the superior productivity software such as video and photo editing capabilities. Most macs that are sold are not even equipped with the hardware required to be a serious gaming machine. The nature of developers supporting iOS (and all game developers will) means they are also a sneeze away from deploying on Mac OS X - and many of them already are. Just an FYI but developing for the xbox and to a lesser extent the ps3 is just a sneeze away from a wintel machine. How? Well most games are developed using the .net framework and that's easily portable. Things are changing... it won't be overnight, but any developer that doesn't embrace it will be left behind. And any consumer that tries to fight it will be standing there holding their liquid CPU cooler in one hand and scratching their *** with the other. I have seriously heard this argument since the 80s... Well minus the liquid cooling part but you get the point.. I've been an Apple developer since 1984. That explains why your arguments sound so familiar... EDIT : That ad was hilarious and it makes me sad to see they as a company simply replaced big brother. Edited March 8, 2012 by Tool_of_Society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elishah Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 A flamewar about whether you think people should use macs or not is entirely pointless. There are very many people who do, and a significant subset of them would be happy to give bioware money if they would only be willing to take it. It's in the company's interest to offer a mac version. And if you like pvp, operations, or an economy, it's in your interest to have a larger playerbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkeh Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I still cant grasp the idea of people actually buying anything apple makes... Its a complete rip-off and understandably so are microsoft products but at least you don't get shafted into a 1 lane road to which you are pretty much forced to buy everything from the provider... Apple are like the new hitlers of business... You will buy what they tell you and when they tell you... Thinking of it its probably why the program is called boot camp too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) You said gamers only want pieces/parts computers, not non-upgradeable hardware, and I pointed to all the console gamers who represent over 90% of the shooter games market. But the overall point is that the success of iOS gaming is causing developers to remove their DirectX blinders, and to add expertise in open gaming technology standards in general, and Objective-C/Cocoa skills in particular, which directly benefits Mac OS game development. And these skills aren't casual/facebook game-specific. If you re read what I actually said in context you would see I was clearly talking about computer gaming, when I talked about people upgrading their parts in the computer. When it comes high end gaming, no Computer gamer would ever except a closed system where they would have to buy a whole new $2000+ computer every few years to upgrade their computer. I have only spent about $2000 in 10 years on upgrading my computer to keep up with computer gaming and have High settings at decent frame rates (30 FPS). You can't tell me that a $2000 Mac can last 10 years in High end gaming. (High end gaming = games like Skyrim, Deus Ex, First Person Shooters). For as long as Apple stays with their business model, Mac will never become a serious gaming machine, computer gamers will not be there to support it. I don't doubt that it will end up having a crap ton of Social/Casual games like Angry Birds, and games that look like they can be played in a browser, and then the occasional Ported game. More then likely iOS will become the primary OS for the casual, angry bird type games, market, but it will never become the primary OS for the high end gaming with their current business model. Primary high end gaming OS will be Windows, and the Consoles. Edited March 8, 2012 by Wolfeisberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game-Hermit Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Cause it's gonna cost ya. Yes, Bootcamp does allow you to run Windows programs. That's how I play the game...and i spent an extra $120 just for the privilege. Right now a large number of players use Macs running Bootcamp, and they spent $100-$180 for the chance to play this game. Some of us really love this game. We'd love to get some of our friends and family members to play...but they use Macs to. Every time you say, as Daniel Erickson did during the Guild Summit Livestream, that "Bootcamp works just fine," while discussing making this game accessible to as many systems as possible is "you bought an expensive computer that can run this game like a champ....clearly you can afford another $100, and therefore you are not a priority market for us. On the other hand, letting your grandmother run it on her 10 year old PC is an important demographic." I realize that creating a client for another system is harder than optimization for one system, but being so dismissive of a decent chunk of the population is not helpful, nor does it engender goodwill in the customers who did pay an extra $100-$180 just to play your game. There is another MMO company out there (you may have heard of them...they dominate the industry) who has done near simultaneous releases since 1996 with the second of the franchise that launched the most successful MMO ever...and that MMO was also launched for both Windows and Mac simultaneously. I understand if your answer is "not soon." It's a technical hurdle and you didn't build for it from the start (though you probably should have). However, saying "if you want to play it, go drop an extra hundred bucks for you, your spouse, and everyone else you know who you want to get into the game and happens to be Mac people" is quite insulting to hear. You don't buy a mac and then whine that nobody makes games for it. That's like buying a chain-mail shirt and being mad that it makes a bad life jacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 If you re read what I actually said in context you would see I was clearly talking about computer gaming, when I talked about people upgrading their parts in the computer. When it comes high end gaming, no Computer gamer would ever except a closed system where they would have to buy a whole new $2000+ computer every few years to upgrade their computer. I have only spent about $2000 in 10 years on upgrading my computer to keep up with computer gaming and have High settings at decent frame rates (30 FPS). You can't tell me that a $2000 Mac can last 10 years in High end gaming. (High end gaming = games like Skyrim, Deus Ex, First Person Shooters). For as long as Apple stays with their business model, Mac will never become a serious gaming machine, computer gamers will not be there to support it. I don't doubt that it will end up having a crap ton of Social/Casual games like Angry Birds, and games that look like they can be played in a browser, and then the occasional Ported game. More then likely iOS will become the primary OS for the casual, angry bird type games, market, but it will never become the primary OS for the high end gaming with their current business model. Primary high end gaming OS will be Windows, and the Consoles. I don't know how to say it any more clearly. The market for iOS games is already as big or bigger than the market for PC/Desktop games... developers will turn their attention to that market first. Because the big budget desktop game is going toward a niche - to risky and it isn't available to all. Once they do that, they will be creating for iOS first, possibly creating an OS X version and possibly _porting to Windows_ if they feel it's worthwhile. I'm not saying every kind of game will work on anything but a desktop, but the demand for those will shrink, and the other market will grow. The Mac has a leg up because all of those iOS developers can easily expand and deliver their products to the Mac OS with nary breaking a sweat. Not as easy to port them to Windows. The situation will be reversed. And if Apple truly re-merges iOS with Mac OS X as they are expected to do, then all of these apps will run on the Mac. But, developers won't truly be targetting desktop gaming much longer - PC OR Mac. The Mac will just happen to have a nice saftey net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game-Hermit Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 But, developers won't truly be targetting desktop gaming much longer - PC OR Mac. The Mac will just happen to have a nice saftey net. This statement is full of LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiiRahnedancer Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 You don't buy a mac and then whine that nobody makes games for it. No, but it's reasonable to expect that a game development company that is known to make versions for Mac OS might have an interest in making another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I don't know how to say it any more clearly. The market for iOS games is already as big or bigger than the market for PC/Desktop games... developers will turn their attention to that market first. Because the big budget desktop game is going toward a niche - to risky and it isn't available to all. Once they do that, they will be creating for iOS first, possibly creating an OS X version and possibly _porting to Windows_ if they feel it's worthwhile. I'm not saying every kind of game will work on anything but a desktop, but the demand for those will shrink, and the other market will grow. The Mac has a leg up because all of those iOS developers can easily expand and deliver their products to the Mac OS with nary breaking a sweat. Not as easy to port them to Windows. The situation will be reversed. And if Apple truly re-merges iOS with Mac OS X as they are expected to do, then all of these apps will run on the Mac. But, developers won't truly be targetting desktop gaming much longer - PC OR Mac. The Mac will just happen to have a nice saftey net. Clearly PC gaming is becoming a Niche market. $18.6 Billion in 2011, record setting. Expected to grow to 25.5 Billion by 2015. The PC gaming platform has constantly been growing. Also http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/infinity-blade-2-ios-game-generates-5-million-in-sales-in-its-first-month-06-01-2012/ http://www.holyfragger.com/multiplatform/Role-Playing/news/?a=2456 $5 million in sales for an iOS game, $650 million in sales for a PC/Console game, both in their first month. PC is considered a platform right there with the consoles, which is why there are many many cross platform games, with exclusives for each system. PC gaming isn't going away, not in any foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tool_of_Society Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) But, developers won't truly be targetting desktop gaming much longer - PC OR Mac. The Mac will just happen to have a nice saftey net. Seriously people have been making that claim since the late 80s.. Every year there's a few articles about how the PC market is dead and the gaming market is dead. Yet the PC gaming market is as huge as ever. The Mac has a leg up because all of those iOS developers can easily expand and deliver their products to the Mac OS with nary breaking a sweat. Not as easy to port them to Windows. The situation will be reversed.I strongly believe that is the driving factor behind windows 8. Microsoft is trying to get there before Apple can take much in the way of market share. You really should take a moment to check XNA out and such which are free versus the $20,000 or so cost for the iOS developer kits. Apple isn't nearly as far ahead of Microsoft as you think when it comes to cross platform portability. A flamewar about whether you think people should use macs or not is entirely pointless. There are very many people who do, and a significant subset of them would be happy to give bioware money if they would only be willing to take it. It's in the company's interest to offer a mac version. And if you like pvp, operations, or an economy, it's in your interest to have a larger playerbase. You are very likely correct sir/maam. Edited March 9, 2012 by Tool_of_Society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Seriously people have been making that claim since the late 80s.. Every year there's a few articles about how the PC market is dead and the gaming market is dead. Yet the PC gaming market is as huge as ever. But things that have changed now: 1) Gamers who grew up in the dawn of the video game era (like me) are decision makers and mainstream soccer moms both. So there is a larger market for consumers who understand and maybe even play games. 2) The iOS has become a popular gaming platform partially due to #1 above. People NEED phones, they WANT smartphones and when these iOS devices landed in the hands of the video game generation, they were sold 3) There are many, many more of these people than there are hard core teen-age gamers. Also, these people have more money to spend. While PC/desktop gaming will continue, it will command but a fraction of the development and investment because it will command but a fraction of the revenue. It is, finally, dying on the vine. I strongly believe that is the driving factor behind windows 8. Microsoft is trying to get there before Apple can take much in the way of market share. Microsoft hasn't historically done well when trying to catch up or compete... only when they are first, or the sole player, do they execute. And considering Apple is so far ahead, M$ will be a non-factor in the post-PC era. You really should take a moment to check XNA out and such which are free versus the $20,000 or so cost for the iOS developer kits. Apple isn't nearly as far ahead of Microsoft as you think when it comes to cross platform portability. You are very likely correct sir/maam. Huh? You can download the development kit for iOS (and Mac OS X) for free. You only pay $99 to join the dev program to get early access to seed software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Clearly PC gaming is becoming a Niche market. $18.6 Billion in 2011, record setting. Expected to grow to 25.5 Billion by 2015. The PC gaming platform has constantly been growing. Also http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/infinity-blade-2-ios-game-generates-5-million-in-sales-in-its-first-month-06-01-2012/ http://www.holyfragger.com/multiplatform/Role-Playing/news/?a=2456 $5 million in sales for an iOS game, $650 million in sales for a PC/Console game, both in their first month. PC is considered a platform right there with the consoles, which is why there are many many cross platform games, with exclusives for each system. PC gaming isn't going away, not in any foreseeable future. You do not got it. The future is not predicted by the sales of current games, but by consumer and developer behavior. Look around you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxen Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 BW should just make a client for OSX only and get rid of their Windows Client. That will bring in more mac gamers. I'm being silly of course, but whether anyone thinks that macs are good for gaming or not, a Mac is more than enough machine to play SWTOR. And considering that millions of people out there own macs, it only makes good business sense to make a mac client for them. It's like if a console game developer (who doesn't have a special agreement with a particular console company) makes only one version of their game for, lets say the xbox, and leave out all the PS3 and Wii players out there who would buy their game. It's just throwing money away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 But things that have changed now: 1) Gamers who grew up in the dawn of the video game era (like me) are decision makers and mainstream soccer moms both. So there is a larger market for consumers who understand and maybe even play games. 2) The iOS has become a popular gaming platform partially due to #1 above. People NEED phones, they WANT smartphones and when these iOS devices landed in the hands of the video game generation, they were sold 3) There are many, many more of these people than there are hard core teen-age gamers. Also, these people have more money to spend. While PC/desktop gaming will continue, it will command but a fraction of the development and investment because it will command but a fraction of the revenue. It is, finally, dying on the vine. Microsoft hasn't historically done well when trying to catch up or compete... only when they are first, or the sole player, do they execute. And considering Apple is so far ahead, M$ will be a non-factor in the post-PC era. Huh? You can download the development kit for iOS (and Mac OS X) for free. You only pay $99 to join the dev program to get early access to seed software. "Finally, dying on the vine?" yeah, we have heard this before, this comes to mind http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/PC_dfe6c4_1685210.jpg Look, you are just another "PC Gaming is dying" arm chair analyst. Despite all the evidence from the last nearly 30 years, with constant growth, and current professional analyst projecting the continued growth, and reaching nearly 19 billion in sales, you still come in here saying that "PC gaming is dying". If it is, cetaintly there should be some profession analyst that would agree with you that states that PC gaming is Dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tool_of_Society Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) But things that have changed now:They say that every year too. "This year is different" "this year is a watershed" blahblahblah. 1) Gamers who grew up in the dawn of the video game era (like me) are decision makers and mainstream soccer moms both. So there is a larger market for consumers who understand and maybe even play games. 2) The iOS has become a popular gaming platform partially due to #1 above. People NEED phones, they WANT smartphones and when these iOS devices landed in the hands of the video game generation, they were sold 3) There are many, many more of these people than there are hard core teen-age gamers. Also, these people have more money to spend. 1. If that's true then you saw the great game market crash too which was followed by mad amounts of articles and editorials about how the concept of a computer gaming market is unaffordable and impossible with the crash proving them right. BTW my first gaming machine was colecovision which had qbert and Zaxon and I thought I was ROCKIN. 2.Sure it's popular but it's nowhere near the level of consoles or desktop gaming. There's serious interface issues with trying to play a game on a phone or even an ipad. There's also serious issues with hardware such as cooling processing power or battery tech that further complicates and limits the abilities of games on mobile devices. What you're really talking about is basically angry birds and farmville kind of games which are usually pretty fleeting in popularity. 3. You have absolutely NO clue about the gamer market and it's readily apparent in your statements. You're completely oblivious to the fact that the average hardcore gamer is in their late 20s and early 30s. Why? well probably because they can afford the hardware and software that teenagers could only dream of. I highly suggest you get your head out of the stereotypes and into reality if you wish to continue this discussion. While PC/desktop gaming will continue, it will command but a fraction of the development and investment because it will command but a fraction of the revenue. It is, finally, dying on the vine.What are you ingesting? Going from 18 billion to 26 billion is not anything that resembles a fraction of revenue or dying on a vine. I'm seriously becoming worried about how delusional you're behaving. Microsoft hasn't historically done well when trying to catch up or compete... only when they are first, or the sole player, do they execute. And considering Apple is so far ahead, M$ will be a non-factor in the post-PC era.XNA and other SDKs have been out for years. I've been able to program a game for the xbox that runs on a desktop and even a phone for some time now. Granted in the early days it was difficult but as of the last couple years it's pretty simple to do. This of course is assuming you're dealing with a game that has minor hardware requirements like angry birds. Frankly MS has spent a lot of their history playing catchup and they've done a damned fine job at it (xbox GUI based OS internet browser etc etc). EDIT: I cannot believe someone has actually got me defending Microsoft the "evil" corporation.. ugh. Huh? You can download the development kit for iOS (and Mac OS X) for free. You only pay $99 to join the dev program to get early access to seed software. Last time I tried to get a hold of it I was sent to the mac store where Apple demanded I pay for the privilege to develop on the iOS. There's a reason colleges and such are teaching classes on XNA and not the iOS SDK and that's pure cost.. You do not got it. The future is not predicted by the sales of current games, but by consumer and developer behavior. Look around you.I have been and every SINGLE YEAR for decades the gaming market for desktops and consoles has grown consistently. We're not talking the early 80s when atari and crew crashed the system we're WELL beyond that now. Just to provide a little perspective on the subject. Last year alone 364 million PCs were shipped out during a WORLD WIDE economic downturn with most industries showing massive decreases in sales. Edited March 9, 2012 by Tool_of_Society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 BW should just make a client for OSX only and get rid of their Windows Client. That will bring in more mac gamers. I'm being silly of course, but whether anyone thinks that macs are good for gaming or not, a Mac is more than enough machine to play SWTOR. And considering that millions of people out there own macs, it only makes good business sense to make a mac client for them. It's like if a console game developer (who doesn't have a special agreement with a particular console company) makes only one version of their game for, lets say the xbox, and leave out all the PS3 and Wii players out there who would buy their game. It's just throwing money away. Actually there are a crap ton of PS3/Xbox games that never make it to the Nintendo Wii, because the target demographic for Wii is not the same as the target demographic of the PS3/Xbox, and I am talking about the blockbuster AAA games. Anyways, yes if EA determines that there is enough money to be made in making an OSX client, then they will do it. But, I'm sure for the fact that Bootcamp exists, that is a part of the determining factor of how many more people they can gain over the amount of people willing to play SWTOR with Bootcamp. I mean if there are 150,000 people willing to play SWTOR with Bootcamp and they if they determine that they can gain another 10,000 with an OSX version, they may determine that is not enough because of the cost to create and support the client. But maybe they only need 15,000 more to make it worth it. Anyways the point is if EA deems it good for their bottom line they'll make it, if they deem it not good for their bottom line, then they wont have it made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzle_flash Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 warez->bootcamp->profit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryssprolls Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Indeed many people buy macs because they are incapable of building a decent computer on their own. Have you the slightest idea of how many Mac users are perfectly able to use a PC and used to built their PC themselves ? I worked 15 years in hybrid (Mac & PC) environments as an IT manager, and used to built my PCs for nearly as long. Building a PC is just dumb easy. Recognizing why Macs last longer than any self-assembled PC and what hardware+software synergy imply requires juste a little more brain.. Ah it's cute someone hasn't realized that Macs are just PCs with a TPM chip. Protip: You can run OSx on a regular PC with very little work. And ? Your hackintosh use the same OS than a Mac while running worse and lasting less ? Great. People using hackintoshes are doing so because they want cheap machines. And cheap they are. Same as self-built rigs : crappy integration, small lifespan, possibly buggy as hell. You're making utterly no sense. Are you seriously trying to claim major data centers use MACs as servers? I was about PCs. Same core components, differences in reliability. Any IT manager knows that 2 machines with the same components on the paper will behave differently. Same with Macs and self-builf & cheap PCs. Same core components but not the same quality. Now you're just making crap up to make yourself feel better for paying more for off the shelf components then I do. I've already stated that the macbooks are pretty nice. Since it's hard to build your own laptop there's not much competition there. Mac desktops use standard off the shelf level components which are of no special quality. I've seen MAC desktop units using Taiwanese caps for god's sake. Ignoring the massive power of proper marketing is even more delusional. All one has to do is look at the diamond industry for another example of the power of marketing. Steve Jobs was pretty brilliant when it came to marketing. That dude could sell Eskimos multiple generations of freezers... I dont have to feel better. I am not doing an e-peen competition. Macpros are good machines with good air flows management and great modular internals. Nothing stellar but pretty rare in PCs nonetheless. They are solid workhorses as are similar PC workstations (in the same price range, mind you). I, for one, don't find Macs overpriced. I know why I buy them. They are my working tools. I don't know why you buy in this "Macs are overpriced, let show our contempt for their users" ? Macs have a heflty 30 to 40% margin, PCs along the 20% margin. Nowhere will you find Macs costing double than a PC unless you're speaking about different quality or components. And Macs can entertain a 40% margin because of scale economy (one forme factor, shared components accross the hardware), not so much because of maketing ploys... Jobs was certainly a brilliant marketing ******e. He was also capable of building a TV set form scratch and knew how to code. Journalists love sterotypes and haters love to buy in them. What I see usually are people spitting on Macs without much knowledge of the machines. On the contrary the vast majority of Mac users I know have been or are still PC users, mind you. Edited March 9, 2012 by Kryssprolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 3. You have absolutely NO clue about the gamer market and it's readily apparent in your statements. You're completely oblivious to the fact that the average hardcore gamer is in their late 20s and early 30s. Why? well probably because they can afford the hardware and software that teenagers could only dream of. I highly suggest you get your head out of the stereotypes and into reality if you wish to continue this discussion. The gamer market is insignificant to the mainstream market going forward... please understand that, the sooner you accept it the easier this will be. What are you ingesting? Going from 18 billion to 26 billion is not anything that resembles a fraction of revenue or dying on a vine. I'm seriously becoming worried about how delusional you're behaving. It's because you're wearing the same blinders as everyone else. I am telling you a change is coming thanks to the iOS. It won't be overnight, but "porting to Windows" will become the new norm. Sorry if that hurts. The consoles were already doing in PC gaming, but this is the nail in the coffin. Frankly MS has spent a lot of their history playing catchup and they've done a damned fine job at it (xbox GUI based OS internet browser etc etc). The Xbox is the only worthwhile product to ever come out of Microsoft... it's almost like it was done by a different company. The Xbox live service, etc was well ahead of it's time. Of course their enterprise stuff and office suite is also well done, but again - they were leaders in these spaces. Last time I tried to get a hold of it I was sent to the mac store where Apple demanded I pay for the privilege to develop on the iOS. There's a reason colleges and such are teaching classes on XNA and not the iOS SDK and that's pure cost.. You have no clue... IT'S FREE. IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN FREE. And there are many more curriculum on iOS/Xcode development right now than there ever has been for Xbox/XNA, I guarantee you that. Just to provide a little perspective on the subject. Last year alone 364 million PCs were shipped out during a WORLD WIDE economic downturn with most industries showing massive decreases in sales. Interesting... let's look at growth percentages in that subset. There are hundreds of stories like this everywhere, many PC builders shipments have declined, but Apple has grown and grown like there's no tomorrow: Apple’s UK, European growth continues as PC sales decline PC sales hit a wall in 'post-PC' world Etc. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spcdog Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Oh geeze. Let the wookie win. You're not going to convince someone that your Toyota is just as good as their Lexus they just spent a bunch of money on, even though it's made with the same parts by the same company. You're also not going to convince an Apple zealot that it's equivalent to your PC with the same Intel processor and AMD GPU. Just nod, smile, and walk away. The fact that someone paid more money for the same computer hardware, for the privilege of jumping through all kinds of hoops to run anything other than the limited set of software available for their native OS, should already tell you you're not dealling with a completely rational person... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Oh geeze. Let the wookie win. You're not going to convince someone that your Toyota is just as good as their Lexus they just spent a bunch of money on, even though it's made with the same parts by the same company. You're also not going to convince an Apple zealot that it's equivalent to your PC with the same Intel processor and AMD GPU. Just nod, smile, and walk away. The fact that someone paid more money for the same computer hardware, for the privilege of jumping through all kinds of hoops to run anything other than the limited set of software available for their native OS, should already tell you you're not dealling with a completely rational person... Limited set of software? LOL. The only piece of software I've ever wanted to run but couldn't has been SW:TOR. And I've owned a Mac since 1984. You do get what you pay for. Cars. Clothing. Computers. I understand that many people don't understand the difference between "cheap" and "value" and I'll just leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lasani Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Trust me after my 1 month free subscription I will not play this game until they release Mac version of this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_Joad Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 These arguments are dumb. BW should just release a linux version and no one has to be pay or be locked in to any operating system or hardware. 100% of problems solved. I can just see it now, open up your terminal and type: sudo apt-get install swtor or yum install swtor And your done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro_Vitality Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 You attempt to program 19 GB's of info into the half baked Mac OS programming language and release it without nearly doubling the cost of the entire project and increasing the release time by 1/3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoforcer Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 so what your saying is BW should program there game for 10% market share for apple users because the other guy does. it comes down to cost and how many of the 10% that use apple are gamers and not just graphic or multi media professionals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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