New abilities incoming in 1.2

[Ardelia]

You don't need 2 pve specs for one class.

 

 

 

...because NO group is ever temporarily full on tanks, but could take another DPS, right?

[JediMasterYuvan]

For immortal, all I hope for is

 

- smoother dps rotation that keeps up rage

- a pull (maybe even just put a talent in above the no channeling choke adding range/pull to it)

- a bit better baseline survivability

- aoe threat (add to somethnig like smash or something)

 

What I hope for Vengeance is to add at least a few abilities that complement your defenses. Similar to how the Immortal Defense Tree has the buffs on Force Scream and Backhand, and the attack Backhand. I like the abilities on Vengeance but I think a little more work could be done to it. Like add a few more attacks instead of the Vengeance tree being a bunch of abilities that complement the Ravage, Obliterate or Vicious Slash attacks.

[JediMasterYuvan]

Immortal needs help in the threat department for AoE tanking. As it stands, not only do we have the worst AoE tanking ability, but our mitigation is also the worst overall (based on spreadsheet analysis on Sithwarrior.com - check it out if you havn't yet.)

 

Immortal needs some serious love - and I can't speak for the other classes, but tanking as a Jugg is very twitchy. Too many abilities are in our 'rotation' which isn't really a rotation - and it takes away from one of our very important jobs - positioning. Of course, you don't HAVE to use all your abilities and you can just spam your auto-attack instead of rotating all of your abilities.... but who wants to be bad?

 

I like vengeance, and I think the DPS is pretty good (despite what the nay-sayers QQ about.) Then again, my DPS set is 4/5 rakata so perhaps it's just very gear dependant. I agree that the tree has some talents that make no sense, and should probably be moved. (For instance the +endurance and +DR talents really belong in immortal.

 

Hope to hear more about what they have planned... As a former old school vanilla Rogue raider, I have a bias towards being pessimistic

 

I couldn't agree more! For example, Backhand, which happens to be an attack, is an example of an ability that belongs more in the Vengeance or Rage trees.

 

Plus, true, Juggernauts don't have a lot of good AoE DPSing. "Smash", I think, is a good ability but could use more potential. I mean I would enjoy Smashing more and more if hadn't been for its weak power. Plus when I get on my skill trees and level up, I end up having to spend a lot on the buffs that buff Smash, instead of other attacks like Impale or Obliterate.

[Anbokr]

I don't see how new abilities could come to "warriors." Hope the author miswrote. Marauders and Juggernauts need completely different abilities for this so called "help." If anything, dps juggs need some extra survivability, and dps marauders need some more control. Giving juggs a pull or stun as collateral for marauders would be hilarious. On the other hand giving marauders another defensive cooldown because of juggs would be broken. Both advanced specs have two diametrically opposed needs. Edited March 6, 2012 by Anbokr

[JediMasterYuvan]

Class changes in 1.2 include new abilities for the Warrior and the Knight, a nerf for the Bounty Hunter, and more. Every class will receive changes, and all skill tree points refunded so you can look over the trees again before deciding how to rebuild your class. "Some players will be excited, some might not. That's always the case when there's tweaks to classes."

 

Head over to ign and read it all a good read indeed:)

 

http://pc.ign.com/articles/121/1219843p1.html

 

I also hope we GET more skill points.

[Superastro]

Oh, just what I was waiting for:

 

MORE SKILLS COOLDOWNS TO BABYSIT ON MY BARS AS A MARAUDER! YES!

 

And BW stated on The Guild Summit yesterday that they wanted the players to experience the visual "world" and not the bars so much.

 

Today as Annihilation/Watchman we have to constantly keep track of:

 

Fury Stacks,

debuffs/dots,

cds (including attacks and defensive ),

procs,

Rage Points.

 

BTW, there is easy visual queues for all of that, u have to find where the hell is the icon of the debbuf/buff stacks among all the other 23939. If only they coudl be stuck in the same place.

 

I like the way it is, took me a while to learn the class. Pls BW do not give us Marauders more skills to their "rotations".

[Zarrot]

As an Immortal Jug...

 

- Improved combat movement. Why am I so slow? Why do I run like I badly need a toilet?

- Force Leap and Intercede break Roots and Slows

[FalcoLombardi]

Class changes in 1.2 include new abilities for the Warrior and the Knight, a nerf for the Bounty Hunter, and more. Every class will receive changes, and all skill tree points refunded so you can look over the trees again before deciding how to rebuild your class. "Some players will be excited, some might not. That's always the case when there's tweaks to classes."

 

Head over to ign and read it all a good read indeed:)

 

http://pc.ign.com/articles/121/1219843p1.html

 

Why does Bounty Hunter need to be nerfed?

[coldserpent]

Why does Bounty Hunter need to be nerfed?

 

People complained about Tracer Missile stacks and spam w/ the Bounty Hunter for a while now.

[Diviciacus]

I too used to think Vengeance didn't flow well, but now that I've figured out the rotation, I almost don't want to go back to Immortal. It's so fun and so powerful that I beat Rage Juggs in PvP all the time, and I DPS so fast that even Mercs can't keep up. It might have very poor burst, but its sustained DPS is fantastic.

 

Learn me your secrets! I just hit 50 last night on my Vengeance jugg (my first lvl 50...shh, I'm slow) and I think I have a rotation figured out, but I only use six abilities... Sundering Assault, Smash, Impale, Shatter, Force Scream, Ravage, and Vicious Throw when the target is in execute range. Things like force push and choke I use situationally (ie. to get a tough mob to stop hitting for a few seconds) rather than on CD.

[RikHar]

Here are my hopes for the Warrior changes, in terms of juggernaut play.

 

 

.

 

 

Rage - This tree is also an absolute mess which borders in the areas of being over powered. IMO a good way to treat Rage would be to make it the Force Ability tree. One thing they could do is nerf the damage on smash but buff the damage on force scream. What do I mean by this? I think the tree could be better balanced if Force Scream was hitting in the 3.5-5.5k range while smash got its damage lowered. I'm just of the opinion that it is WAY to easy to do the amount of damage you do in Rage in its current form. The way the buffs work is also kinda wonky, its a good idea, but I think it could use some smoothing out.

 

 

 

 

also, new abilities for warriors? Thanks bioware, just what I needed, more buttons.

 

 

 

 

Rage is far from being "overpowered."

[zargulis]

I'd like to see some changes to Ravage. The animation as it is now is retarded. It takes TWO WHOLE SECONDS to wind up for the final attack, which does not deal enough damage for the cast time, and makes no sense from a lore point of view. You are swinging a "blade" made of a stream of very high energy particles (or some such). These particles basically have ZERO mass, so swinging REALLY hard is a waste of time - there will be ZERO increase in momentum-->damage. Not only that, but in a real (use your imagination) lightsaber duel, you would be cut into seven pieces before that final swing hit.

[Superastro]

Am I the only one concerned about those new abilities coming with 1.2?

Dont we have enough CDS to manage already?

[Schwarzwald]

...because NO group is ever temporarily full on tanks, but could take another DPS, right?

 

What? No, I was saying we don't need PvE skills in Rage. Its counter productive. Ops in its current forms are about single target damage, and currently that resides in Veng. We don't need a PvE rage spec as others have been asking for because it would only limit the diversity that Jugs need atm.

[blakerocks]

This really needs to be stickied. I really like what AngelousWang said about the Dark Side auras - Hatred, Fear, and Enthrallment. And the Force Charge refreshing after every kill would be AMAZING for PvP, slightly less useful for PvE, but still GREAT overall. And AKfourtyseven talking about the damage debuff Dark Side aura...AMAZING!!!! You guys are great, I'm going to keep reading and wishing I had this, but probably will never get. GO JUGGERNAUT!

[jasta_]

I'm hoping they don't add another button to push - at least not with out making another ability more focused (ie. good for some specs but not others). My hotkeys are groaning as it is.

 

My thoughts on what it could be:

 

Remove Pommel Strike or Kick and replace one of them with a better PvE Aoe threat/damage ability. As much as I like the animations these two are pretty similar (and of pretty limited use). Do we really need both?

 

Something for the Vengeance tree that makes it synergise better. Maybe even replace Shatter altogether it never really felt all that good. At the moment Vengeance is wishy washy... it needs to focus a bit more on DoT's, or tanky DPS, or something.

 

A third ability for the Rage tree that gives them something else to do (and probably makes up for a likely nerf to the super Smash crits) Rage is a one trick pony IMO, maybe not OP but it wouldn't surprise me if they toned it down a bit.

 

Something a bit more pro-active for Jugg tanks. This is my hope, Jugg tanking gets a bit monotonous... cycle through your rotation, be ready with a panic button. I'd like something to do that doesn't have a 3 minute cooldown.

[atreyuz]

Just what I needed. Some more keybinds to add to my 30 ones as a mara.

 

Sweeeeet.

 

-----_______-----

[Elyx]

Am I the only one concerned about those new abilities coming with 1.2?

Dont we have enough CDS to manage already?

 

I am concerned about it as well. I think most people are simply excited about the news (They really WERE looking at it!!) and they are trying to get their 2 cents in on the discussion.

 

I personally think that most of the Jugg/knight issues can be resolved with current skills in existence. very easily

 

Threat can be buffed either in the stance (30% extra or whatever it takes), or they can simply add an extra threat component to certain abilites, and tag it on an existing talent in the immortal tree.

 

Damage can be upped very easily for Immortals by increasing inherent Str gain, or just buffing overall damage by X% while in soresu. It wouldn't take leaps and bounds to fix. but the class is definitely already full enough with skills...we don't need any more TYVM.

 

And I like the feel of the class, So I don't want any of our current skills (for the most part) changed. I would like to see some polishing...increasing the DoT's by a bit in vengance...give Rage more flexibility in its damage production (not proc humping as much as it does), etc. Make Ravage a non-interruptable skill as baseline (you could give Rage an additional perk for the talent it would lose...perhaps make it an instance attack for Rage like immortal has for choke).

 

But pleeeeaase...no more new skills. just polish the ones we got, and for heaven's sake, buff immortals damage and mitigation. I don't want us to be OP...I just want to see jugg's able to tank HM's without sweating the enrage timers.

[devyne]

Really?, lol

 

Juggernaut dps is pretty much useless in pve. They need to really buff the vengeance tree and nerf the rage tree a little. because as it is the only useful warrior in pve is a mara and not even by much.

 

I totally agree with the bounty hunter thing tho i have a 50 jugg dps in full rakata and just recently got my merc in pretty much full rakata and i can honestly say my merc more then doubles the dps of my warrior and can *********** heal itself. my warrior seems useful in pvp as rage spec or immortal but still they have to make them kind of useful for pve as dps.

 

Also thanks alot for the post about `1.2 mate it gives me hopes that maybe just maybe this game got a shot. especially if it brings some of those people that quit because they hit 50 and did nothing.

[Schwarzwald]

They said NEW abilities, more specifically, they did not say MORE abilities.

 

So perhaps in 1.2 they are removing/replacing/seriously reworking some abilities that warriors have.

 

 

Damage can be upped very easily for Immortals by increasing inherent Str gain, or just buffing overall damage by X% while in soresu. It wouldn't take leaps and bounds to fix. but the class is definitely already full enough with skills...we don't need any more TYVM.

 

Less Hit, more Power on items would fix this. Its kinda wacky that default itemization pushes you to the DR of hit.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Schwarzwald

[Elyx]

Really?, lol

 

Juggernaut dps is pretty much useless in pve. They need to really buff the vengeance tree and nerf the rage tree a little. because as it is the only useful warrior in pve is a mara and not even by much.

 

I totally agree with the bounty hunter thing tho i have a 50 jugg dps in full rakata and just recently got my merc in pretty much full rakata and i can honestly say my merc more then doubles the dps of my warrior and can *********** heal itself. my warrior seems useful in pvp as rage spec or immortal but still they have to make them kind of useful for pve as dps.

 

Also thanks alot for the post about `1.2 mate it gives me hopes that maybe just maybe this game got a shot. especially if it brings some of those people that quit because they hit 50 and did nothing.

 

you need to show the data. all the timed tests I've seen so far place Vengance juggs higher up on the food chain for DPS. Your quip about their DPS sucking is either incorrect, or it's user error. I agree that BH needs an adjustment, but comparing a class that is pretty much faceshmash DPS ( I play one as well) to one that is challenging to play, and then basing your comment purely on personal anecdotal experience, is hardly evidence.

 

But I think we are still in agreement. BH could use some balance, and vengance could use some polish. but 2x damage? hardly.

[Foxcolt]

All you bads qq'ing about hitting moar buttons lolz..

 

I would love more abilities..the sheer amount of abilities I currently have are what make the class fun.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Foxcolt

[devyne]

you need to show the data. all the timed tests I've seen so far place Vengance juggs higher up on the food chain for DPS. Your quip about their DPS sucking is either incorrect, or it's user error. I agree that BH needs an adjustment, but comparing a class that is pretty much faceshmash DPS ( I play one as well) to one that is challenging to play, and then basing your comment purely on personal anecdotal experience, is hardly evidence.

 

But I think we are still in agreement. BH could use some balance, and vengance could use some polish. but 2x damage? hardly.

 

Maybe not 2x the damage but you dont have to worry i 100% know how to play my vengeance juggernaut in pve wich most dont, hell alot of people think force scream is a rage dump for when ravage impale and shatter on cd lol. but the dot damage is 100% useless the initial damage of impale for me is around 4k crit on bosses where my bh does 4k tracers missiles and 5.5-6k heatseekers.... cmon.

 

Another class that people dont realize is a little under powered in PVE is assassins. they think there doing good damage but honestly there doing much less then other classes. i actually did some testing. On the 4th boss of ev hardmode i decided to test the dps of my merc vs my jugg tonight. My merc killed both his targets before enrage 1 with 101k health i believe and another with 68ish?. where as my jugg only got his fatty (the 1 with 68k health) to about 43% before they enraged and disappeared.

 

I couldnt time everything precisely but thats still a big difference and when in a boss with 1.6-1.8m health thats more then a 200k damage difference it gives less incentive to give a slot to a juggernaut dps.

 

In my opinion impale needs a big nerf and the dots on force scream and shatter need a buff then they'll be pretty on par with marauder a few other classes. also how about they put the 4% extra endurance and 4% less damage in the *********** tank tree and the bubble on force charge in the tank tree instead of putting it in what is suppose to be a pve dps tree.

[devyne]

All you bads qq'ing about hitting moar buttons lolz..

 

I would love more abilities..the sheer amount of abilities I currently have are what make the class fun.

 

Well there are a lot of buttons but personally they dont bother me (razer naga) and my action bars are fine, but for more casual players and people that are used to the wow smash 5 button rotation or priority and be done its quite overwhelming.

[darktroysith]

Bioware!!! Our Characters need more customization!!! For example, my Sith Inquisitor. In the new 1.2 Family tree, there needs to be a new customization option that allows characters to have wrinkles. I need my Inquisitor to be ancient and powerful!!! Please Bioware!!! Answer the call of the players!!!