Expertise - As seen from both sides of the fence. It is broken.

[FarizAA]

They already said expertise is getting a nerf

 

If true, I am really puzzled. It is already many people who are using hybrid gear for pvp, and if expertize is nerfed who will care to get pvp gear at all?

[Endowed]

Two days after I hit 50 on my Sorc... I had 400 expertise.

 

I don't see the problem.

 

Players need to plan/play better. But instead, they will cry and another game willbe ruined by people who have the same access as everyone else.

 

*** I will agree that when they made changes during the Ilum patch, that changed the access and is messed up. They shouldnt do such things. Especially when it comes to different players getting different degrees of access. But if its all the same, so be it.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Endowed

[rzrknight]

Two days after I hit 50 on my Sorc... I had 400 expertise.

 

I don't see the problem.

 

Players need to plan/play better. But instead, they will cry and another game willbe ruined by people who have the same access as everyone else.

 

*** I will agree that when they made changes during the Ilum patch, that changed the access and is messed up. They shouldnt do such things. Especially when it comes to different players getting different degrees of access. But if its all the same, so be it.

 

The actual funny part is how we are '' this close to ruin PvE

 

just wait till all pvp players begin to use the PvE gear , man i can alrdy hear the QQing.

[Calomega]

Couldn't agree more with the OP. I just got to 50, and went from dealing over 200k damage in almost every WZ, topping the damage charts 90% of the time, to being completely worthless, dealing around 75k per WZ.

 

Like he said, frustrating doesn't capture the feeling. It is depressing, I don't feel like I even want to spend the time trying to painfully grind out better gear just so I can start having fun.

 

Expertise should reduce incoming damage ONLY, and not have an effect on outgoing or anything else.

[CupieFoxtail]

Like he said, frustrating doesn't capture the feeling. It is depressing, I don't feel like I even want to spend the time trying to painfully grind out better gear just so I can start having fun.

 

Fortunately it will be over in 2 days, and you will be happy at how much more powerful your character feels

Edited March 5, 2012 by CupieFoxtail

[Calomega]

Two days after I hit 50 on my Sorc... I had 400 expertise.

 

I don't see the problem.

 

Players need to plan/play better. But instead, they will cry and another game willbe ruined by people who have the same access as everyone else.

 

*** I will agree that when they made changes during the Ilum patch, that changed the access and is messed up. They shouldnt do such things. Especially when it comes to different players getting different degrees of access. But if its all the same, so be it.

 

Listen up pumpkin,

 

If you got over 400 expertise in 2 days, you play WAY more than the average player. Your argument is thus invalid, and stupid.

 

In a well designed game, skill should trump gear. In this game, you literally CAN NOT win against a better geared player if they have even half of a brain. I can outplay the **** out of someone, blow all my CD's and still lose to their gear.

 

How can anyone consider that enjoyable?

[CupieFoxtail]

In a well designed game, skill should trump gear. In this game, you literally CAN NOT win against a better geared player if they have even half of a brain. I can outplay the **** out of someone, blow all my CD's and still lose to their gear.

It's not an issue when it takes two days to get competitively geared...

Edited March 5, 2012 by CupieFoxtail

[snaplemouton]

Listen up pumpkin,

 

If you got over 400 expertise in 2 days, you play WAY more than the average player. Your argument is thus invalid, and stupid.

 

In a well designed game, skill should trump gear. In this game, you literally CAN NOT win against a better geared player if they have even half of a brain. I can outplay the **** out of someone, blow all my CD's and still lose to their gear.

 

How can anyone consider that enjoyable?

 

It's enjoyable because a good player in centurion gear can kill an average player in battlemaster gear.

 

Full Centurion being obtainable by a casual in a few days.

Champion being obtainable over time by a casual.

Battlemaster being obtainable after around a month or 2 by a casual.

 

If you really are that good, you can beat 95% of the people 3 to 5 days after reaching 50 as a casual player.

[Calomega]

It's not an issue when it takes two days to get competitively geared...

 

It doesn't, for those of us with responsibilities.

[Astarica]

If you had 1000/1000 + a bag in store when you hit 50 (which isn't very hard if you PvPed a decent amount in 10-49, easier next patch too) you start with 6 bags. In 3 days you can win 9 games for a total of 6 bags (3 dailys + 1 weekly). For 12 bags you get 180 centurion commendations + 84 champion commendations + whatever you managed to get lucky on. Centurion range from low 20s to 40s, and you can buy 2 other stuff with 84 champion commendations. Assume the average (30) then you can buy roughly 6 pieces of Centurion + 2 pieces of champion, and there are 12 slots to fill. Realistically since you get identical Expertise rating per piece, you should buy 2 Champion relics + the cheapest possible Centurion pieces first and that should get you a solid 400+ Expertise to work with.

[JefferyClark]

Yeah like some people here have said, you can't hit 50 and expect to do all that great right away. If you were smart and had 1k/1k comms, along with a pre-purchased bag, you should have 6 bags with which to get comms out of. That nets you about 2 pieces of centurion and 42 champion comms, not to mention if you're lucky and get an item inside a bag. Then just grind it out for a couple days and pick up a few more pieces, and it should be a lot more even.

 

The other thing is, playing an Operative. It's the squishiest class there is, especially with no expertise. You rely on bursting people down, but against players with champion sets you won't be doing much dmg, on top of the mostly rediculous nerfs the Operative class has suffered. Not that I'll complain, as I still do amazing in PvP with my mostly champion geared Operative, but that's much more a testiment to player skill.

 

Even if you do this, you still need to do Belsavis/Ilum dailies to get armoring/mods/hilts/etc that are level 50. This is what I call tier 1 level 50 gear.

 

Gear tiers:

 

1 - Orange mod gear with mods from daily commendations

1.5 - the new starter pvp armor they are putting in

2 - Centurion/Tionese

2.5 - Champion/Columi

3 - Battlemaster/Rakata

 

If you are entering warzones in the 50 bracket with anything less than level 50 orange gear (ie, wearing level 30-40 greens and blues) with level 50 mods (blues and purples from dailies) you are wasting EVERYONE'S time.

[rzrknight]

It doesn't, for those of us with responsibilities.

 

So ... you want to play 1 hr a day at most ... and compete with a person playing for months.

 

Well , ic the problem ... you dont understand how MMOs work at all...

[Orangerascal]

expertise != gear disparity

 

Associating the two is about as crazy as associating violence with video games. Gear disparity sucks ... we know.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Redderic]

A new tier of gear was confirmed in one of the dev chat statements. he also mentioned they were going to make the stat itemisation better on that tier.

 

So, when t4 hits, if the expertise curve remains as it is now, using some t4 PvE will almost definitely be better than pure t4 PvP, for PvP since it will be even easier to hit 550/600 and then stack a bunch of more useful stats.

 

read it again the stat itiration is referring to the massive amount of accuracy on all pieces. they are rounding that out so that other stats are shown more often.

[TwitchFE]

It really isn't that bad, I don't understand the whining

[Endowed]

Listen up pumpkin,

 

If you got over 400 expertise in 2 days, you play WAY more than the average player. Your argument is thus invalid, and stupid.

 

In a well designed game, skill should trump gear. In this game, you literally CAN NOT win against a better geared player if they have even half of a brain. I can outplay the **** out of someone, blow all my CD's and still lose to their gear.

 

How can anyone consider that enjoyable?

 

Its not from mass hours, its from proper planning.

 

LEVEL in PVP and not PVE.

 

FTR: I did the two weeklys (6) and two dailys (2) and had 1 Champ Bag before I hit 50 (1) and 1000/1000 accoms (5-almost, but I did some pvp zones for more wz accoms after purchase) stocked up before I dinged 50 as well.

 

I opened 14! bags by day two of capping my level.

 

At 50 I didnt have to run but 9 winning warzones and an hour of Ilum.

 

I got a belt token (yay!!!) for +46 expertise. I spent 48 of 49 Champs on 2 Relics for 96exp more.

 

That left 225 (or so) Centurion tokens for Centurion Gear @ only 39 tokens a piece for set and 21 ea for implant/ear. Thats all 4 set pieces and and 2 Implants and 1 Ear (39exp ea). Which is roughly 219 cost.

 

See.

 

You do see that?

 

+46 Belt.

+96 2 Relics

+273 Centurion.

 

Thats 415 right there.

 

 

 

***And ftr, I had 100 more expertise, but I cant give away all my secrets.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Endowed

[kobesteve]

Don't agree with you at all in everything you said, you can win against them because it's a TEAM effort thus you may have to team up on stronger players or just be smarter sometimes by yourself. MMO's aren't only about one on one combat. You also have to earn your way by playing in them and not expect to pop in as a lvl 50 with the same gear as everybody else. If there was no effort to get gear or progress what fun would the game be? People seem to be confusing an MMO with FPS where everybody pops in with same gear and stats... Good MMO PvP was never like this, and that's what made it dangerous and challenging. You group up on stronger players and take them down if you have to or just be smart.

 

Listen up pumpkin,

In a well designed game, skill should trump gear. In this game, you literally CAN NOT win against a better geared player if they have even half of a brain. I can outplay the **** out of someone, blow all my CD's and still lose to their gear.

 

How can anyone consider that enjoyable?

[getdownsb]

I leveled up a PT pyro to 50 and with mostly cent gear plus one champ piece was tearing people apart. I don't think it's that big of a deal, but I could also care less.

[Kanana]

What the OP is asking for is to subvert the ENTIRE purpose of expertise. To keep PvE gear out of PvP.

 

You can go picket Bioware to have some crappy pre-Centurion craftable set because you're too lazy to pvp for 2 weeks.

 

Yeah. Let us get pvp gear through pvp. That is a thing BW did right. I'd rather not have to raid just to pvp.

[Waagabond]

Nerfing expertise I really dont think is a good solution.

Already now Rakata gear is much better then battlemaster gear.

 

You want best gear?

 

Get a few pieaces of battlemaster but have atleast 40% rakata gear in your arsenal.

 

Why?

 

Rakata gear have around 10-20% better stats for damage then battlemaster gear.

This makes expertise only useful for damage reduction, healing recieved etc.

 

Nerfing Expertise further will only cause casual players to be only FURTHER away, since all hardcore and even mediocre players will just get columni and rakata gear.

Since operations in SWTOR is so damn easy, its very easy to get gear this way, it already goes much faster to aquire rakata and columni gear then to get pvp gear.

And then ontop of this, PVE gear will be better?

 

If anything, they should BUFF expertise, not nerf it.

 

Expertise needs a 25% buff and THEN it will be better then pve gear for pvp.

[Waagabond]

Its not from mass hours, its from proper planning.

 

LEVEL in PVP and not PVE.

 

FTR: I did the two weeklys (6) and two dailys (2) and had 1 Champ Bag before I hit 50 (1) and 1000/1000 accoms (5-almost, but I did some pvp zones for more wz accoms after purchase) stocked up before I dinged 50 as well.

 

I opened 14! bags by day two of capping my level.

 

At 50 I didnt have to run but 9 winning warzones and an hour of Ilum.

 

I got a belt token (yay!!!) for +46 expertise. I spent 48 of 49 Champs on 2 Relics for 96exp more.

 

That left 225 (or so) Centurion tokens for Centurion Gear @ only 39 tokens a piece for set and 21 ea for implant/ear. Thats all 4 set pieces and and 2 Implants and 1 Ear (39exp ea). Which is roughly 219 cost.

 

See.

 

You do see that?

 

+46 Belt.

+96 2 Relics

+273 Centurion.

 

Thats 415 right there.

 

 

 

***And ftr, I had 100 more expertise, but I cant give away all my secrets.

 

This.

 

I had 400 expertise+ with my scoundrel after he dinged, by just doing the next daily and weekly.

 

If you get to 50 without 1 champ bags and 1k wz tokens/merc tokens, thats your fault.

Dont come and complain when you did not even put in 10% of the work people that PVP is doing.

 

To get 350+ expertise today takes a few hours after you dinged 50 if you atleast did the basics pre 50 work, which all pvpers do, and if you didnt, your voice should not even be listened to.

[Waagabond]

Expertise is NOT getting more nerf and neither is the PvP gear.

 

You low new lvl 50 are not worth the air you breath in a wz , FACT.

 

Still the BM gear is meant to compete with the rakata gear , which let me break the news for you who know NOTHING about the endgame , is alrdy stronger than the BM set.

 

Now , yeah keep nerfing the BM gear , we will go get the rakata and use it in wzs , then guys you will see what a true trashing is all about.

 

This.

 

Rakata gear is already stronger then BM gear even without expertise, as its on average 20% stronger, and have GOOD setbonuses compared to the pvp gear.

 

Lets look at soundrel dps set bonus shall we?

 

Rakata/Columni 2 set: +15% crit on backblast

 

PVP dps gear: 1 second longer duration on dodge, or 3 second longer duration on your 1 min AOE 3 second channel ability, XS flyby.

 

The sad part for us that pvp is, the flyby 2 set is the best set bonus smugglers have on any set, including healing set.

 

Back to the point: PVE gear already beats pvp gear.

 

Why bother rolling for battlemaster, when you can be part of a guild that not even botheres to do operations on hardmode, which already is easy, but go for columni gear.

 

Now, columni gear IS supposed to be same as champ gear, but let me break it....the dps stats on columni is far superior and it is more similar to battlemaster. You lack expertise but make up for it by having roughly 20-30% more dps stats on the items.

You dont see people running around with 20% expertise now do you?

 

Most people that do pvp today, including myself, run with 2 or more rakata pieaces, get expertise to around 10%, since stacking beyond this costs too much due to diminishing return, and you loose ALOT of stats from not using columni or rakata, by using those badly made champ and BM gear pieaces.

 

To add more frustation: The pvp set MUST be remodded to be competative.

Either you go and get your lvl 52 mods from dailys or you farm operations and take out mods from columni or rakata gear, you must do this, for dps users the accuracy is far above what you ever need for the worst raid pve boss, and they have got that into our pvp gear.

The development team dont even understand their own game.

 

Keep expertise and increase dps stats by 15% on the pvp gear, remove useless stats like accuracy and the pvp gear will finally be worth having full of, at the moment, only casual players that pvp use full pvp gear.

[Krystaf]

I think he meant PvE

A fresh level 50er will do very poorly compared to someone in rakata

It's just the nature of gear progression in this MMO (and in that other one I've played)

Luckily,they made the upswing to full expertise gear the shortest I've ever seen in an MMO

 

fixed once again.

 

There are two schools of though (and two schools of mmo's) out there.

 

1. Both PvE and PvP should have gear progression.

 

2. PvP shouldn't have gear progression, it's about skill.

 

SWTOR developers chose the former and that's how it's going to be. I myself am of the 2. school and will be enjoying GW2 when it comes out.

[Niconogood]

They already said expertise is getting a nerf

 

Rakata is already comparable better than BM-gear. If thats true we would have no need of PvP gear, and all PvPers would be forced to do PvE content to be competetive, decking themselves up in full rakata instead. This is retarded.

[VincentWolf]

Rakata is already comparable better than BM-gear. If thats true we would have no need of PvP gear, and all PvPers would be forced to do PvE content to be competetive, decking themselves up in full rakata instead. This is retarded.

 

Pretty much this. Anyone who knows at least something about pvp in this game will tell you that expertise needs a buff, not, in any case, a nerf. I don't think they going to make pvp gear completely useless, this just won't make any sense.