Juggernaut advice. What's best at levelling with a mix of pvp and pve.

[Jinxxus]

I have recently stopped playing my Juggernaut because i can't make my mind up on which direction to go in. Up until now I have been levelling by doing a mix of PVE questing (mainly just class quests with the occasional extras that are in the vacinity of the class quest) and PVP. I am currently sitting at level 35 and something was just niggling away causing me to reset my talent tree with the intention of trying to fix it. I levelled as Vengeance until the reset and as far as the PVE content was concerned I was doing fine. My problem was in PVP in which I just didn't seem to perform. I have been trailing through endless forum threads and other websites trying to find out what I should do and I am now at a point where I don't play my Warrior because I don't want to make a bad decision with my spec.

In short, the question I am asking is what would I be better off playing as? I want to make the right decision now so I can learn to play it properly over the remaining 15 levels rather than be a fail level 50 that doesn't know his class due to multi-respeccing. Is there a dps build that performs at both PVP and PVE (all other classes seem to have a spec that can do both) for levelling and at level 50, performs respectably there too? While my warrior has been on downtime, I have levelled my Deception Assassin to level 25 and the build I have laid out is performing fine in both PVE and PVP which brought me to the question whether there is a Warrior build that can do the same. I am loving the quest line for the Sith Warrior and I want to continue it but I want to make sure I get my talent spec correct before I carry on.

I would like to add though that I am looking for a dps spec. I playing as a tank in WoW, in fact I had 2 and have decided that in SWTOR I want to get away from tanking as I did it for 4-5 years previously. I chose Juggernaut because I like the single saber style (old school Star Wars fan at heart)

 

I look forward to hearing from the community and thanks in advance for any help or advice offered.

[Irishpierre]

Immortal with Quinn, is my choice. You don't miss out on THAT much damage, you simply kill mobs slower. Though you have a healer with you so you can take your time.

 

PVE, I'm able to finish quests 2 levels below recommendation with ease, 3-4 for a challenge.

 

PVP, I take in roughly 7-8 medals a match.

 

I'm level 31, having finished Act 1.

 

 

Someone else can provide details on rage, though I enjoy Immortal. It's rather simple.

[AngelousWang]

There is no god send PVE and PVP DPS spec with Juggernaut. And Veng-Rage Hybirds all suck, I've yet to see a single one match the pure specs.

 

Rage is PVP as it is highly dependent almost completely on Smash, and these super-smashes take a bit of time to set up. When fighting elites or higher (even some strongs) this causes much trouble, because if they survive your super-smash (which they will) they will kill you before you get another one off.

 

Vengance is PVE, because it's it a sustained damage (has 3 big attacks that are spread out in a rotation making strongs/elites pushovers), you need to spend much longer fighting to do the same amount as all burst specs other people use in PVP which puts you at a big disadvantage.

 

Immortal ironically enough works well in both, but of course that's Tanking&Objectives, not DPS&Killing.

Edited March 4, 2012 by AngelousWang

[lordofdamornin]

Jinxxus -

 

The Juggernaut is a very late-blooming class.

 

The good news? You are almost there.

 

The bad news? You are almost there.

 

I recommend Immortal, with any companion you want (though using Quinn makes you nigh-unkillable) until you hit 40-41. At that point, switch to Rage. Rage is a killing machine in PvE, and pretty good in PvP as well.

 

As Rage, your companion is Quinn. You can run with Jaesa or Vette, but the simple fact of the matter is that you don't need their help at all, and you certainly don't need them pulling melee mobs off of you before your Smash is ready. Using Quinn, you will kill a pack of mobs in roughly the same amount of time, but you probably won't have to stop your killing spree.

 

Riôt

[Jinxxus]

Does anyone else have any opinions on this and can anyone recommend any particular builds.

[Dracosz]

Level as vengeance to 40

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cMZIrMRMhdzM.1

 

 

Get the immortal talents first as they will facilitate leveling the most. Vengeance will remove most rage issues while leveling and give you way to kill targets quickly after charge

 

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cMZhMZrrRbdrMdGo.1

 

From 40-50 level as rage, you'll have force crush so you can finally generate shockwave effectively without relying on choke and it will make kills in PvP much more quick and effective.

 

 

At 50, it's your choice

[OrphanOfDarkness]

Rage and Quinn. People really cant figure this out on their own?

 

Immortal is gimp, its not good for tanking and its amazingly crappy dps. It's for baddies that cant handle real dps rotations. I'm sorry if that offends said baddies, but the truth is ugly.

 

Rage is the best for straight up killing people. So what if you die quicker? I charge into huttball teams solo and kill 1 to 3 people almost always. You are gonna die anyway, might as well wh*re up those kills/medals.

 

Vengeance is weaker but it is more balanced. If gives you a friendly rotation and has survivability. This might be the better choice for pre-50 pvp when you dont have a Rakata set with power/crit/surge mods ripped out of Agent gear like I do.

 

14/27/0 is your tank spec right now, take it from a main tank in nightmare level guild, and from someone who tops thewarzone scoreboards as a dps juggernaut on the weekends.

[Elyx]

Now, for a bit of defense of the Vengance spec, I've leveled to 48 so far in vengance and it's been a fun, smooth time. I can kill elites easily, and even champs I come across (not all, but most the generic ones are doable).

 

Now, Drac you suggest Rage post 40, and at this point im pretty interested, as i want to try it out. What do you feel is the reason it's better then Vengance, and what in your experience is the difference between the specs as to how they play? Im looking for advice on rotation and such, as I've pretty much ignored both immortal and rage trees up to this point.

 

On an average mob (vengance spec) ill leap, hit my target with a sunder while the extra mobs run in, then smash to get taht threat on them all (and stun the normals). ill also cycle in a quick pommel strike while they're stunned (usually finishes off a normal fast). from that point it's a cycle of my 9 second wonders (shatter, impale, scream) and the sunders are fill-ins to gain extra rage and keep sunder stacks up. smash is really a placeholder when im low on rage and/or other skills are on CD. i dont use it unless I know Im not going to break CC (quinns or groups). And yes, I maximize use of quinn's freeze when i can (you'd be surprised at how useful it is when you time things right)

 

how does the "rage cycle" differ from this? do I prioritize other skills instead? obviously shatter and impale are not a part of it, but what do you do in their place? I'm assuming that our other skills that are available are thrown in when opportunity and procs permit, but are there some that you sill always do? ravage would be an example....it's an afterthought for me in my standard rotation, is it the same with rage?

 

Edit: also...looking at the rage tree, it seems like many of their abilities rely on longer CD's (force crush, force choke, etc). Even the all mighty smash is on a 12 sec CD (I'm assuming you always take the CD reduction talent in the venge tree). Given that im used to multiple skills being on a 9 second CD (or less), how well does the whole cycle play out? do you find yourself caught on some mobs/groups with nothing but sunder/vicious slash spam?

 

And while i directed this as drac, anyone who regularly plays Rage spec in PVE (not PvP..could care less about it) can answer. I'm just looking to get an idea of how it will feel when I transition.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Elyx

[ArtMonster]

....People really cant figure this out on their own? .... It's for baddies that cant handle real dps rotations. I'm sorry if that offends said baddies, but the truth is ugly.....

 

dont have to be a dick about it.

 

op was asking for advice, not abuse.

 

the purpose of asking is to learn.... some are just getting into the Juggernaut for the first time.

 

cut some slack, take off your elitist shoes in this house please.

[Fallenlore]

Level as vengeance to 40

 

From 40-50 level as rage, you'll have force crush so you can finally generate shockwave effectively without relying on choke and it will make kills in PvP much more quick and effective.

 

 

At 50, it's your choice

 

^ This is correct.

 

I leveled from 1-40 as Veng with no issues. Used Quinn mainly but also tried out Jaena a bit when I first got her. Have absolutely no issues with any non Heroic quests on any of the planets. Did fairly well in PvP but I was mainly PvE questing to be honest.

 

40-50 I used Rage. It comes into it's own as a spec at around level 43 when you get 3 points in Immortal for free scream. You will be pwning people in the pre-50 bracket for those 10 levels so enjoy it. The exp was sort of slow even though I won nearly all my pvp matches, so I went back to PvE questing on the planets to hit 50.

 

At 50 I was torn between Rage and Veng. I used Rage initially due to my craptasic gear but once you get a decent 126+ set I'd switch back to Vengence. Vengence scales better imo and is easier to play for PvE. For PvP rage does a more damage to clusters of people but in the post 50 bracket people learn NOT to cluster up.

 

The main reason I stopped using Rage was because it felt too cetered around Smash. If you miss it, they cc you at the right time, push you away, stun you, etc, etc then you just lost all your damage. And post 50 folks inately know when you're about to smash somehow and find a way to counter it.

 

My Guardian is Veng spec as well and doing decent damage in Ops runs. I'm sitting around 1650 str fully buffed with rakata stims, just a reference.

[wickedUOF]

There's no reason you can use Rage the whole time. It is nicer when you get Force Crush but totally not neccassary.

 

For a 3-4 pack of normal mobs, leap > savage kick > smash > switch target > pommel strike > switch target > scream

 

everything is dead, spend 3 seconds healing, on you go. You won't always get to finish this rotationb because Vette will kill ****.

 

These guys saying rage relies on Smash clearly never really tried it. You don't need to have shockwave on every single smash, not at those levels anyway.

 

I think I levelled with 5 points in immortal the whole time to get extra rage from Sunder and free screams.

 

For a strong, Leap > savage kick > scream > choke > smash

Remember you have obliterate too which gives you another free scream and you can always chilling scream/savage kick. In rare cases you could use Viscous slash.

[EnalisNailo]

I actually leveled all the way to 50 running a pure vengence spec. I've spent a lot of time also trying to figure out what worked best for me in PVP. I have run rage for quite a bit but I just felt a bit on the meh side. Everything was reliant on getting smash off. It was great for the first few minutes of a match but once the other team caught on I was a rage jugg I would just get spammed with knockbacks, force choke would get interupted, or they would kb me in the middle of the smash animation and I became more a liability than anything. I recently decided what the hell, why not try vengence spec in pvp and it just simply fits my pvp style alot better. I feel I have more utility and more options to work with when taking on opponents (especially healers) granted I dont get to see those big numbers from a charged up Smash, but for me atleast I have a constant flow of rage and have some sort of attack at the ready at any given time. I've put up about the same numbers damage wise in both specs (180k-240k is my average)

[unclekaula]

There's no reason you can use Rage the whole time. It is nicer when you get Force Crush but totally not neccassary.

 

For a 3-4 pack of normal mobs, leap > savage kick > smash > switch target > pommel strike > switch target > scream

 

everything is dead, spend 3 seconds healing, on you go. You won't always get to finish this rotationb because Vette will kill ****.

 

These guys saying rage relies on Smash clearly never really tried it. You don't need to have shockwave on every single smash, not at those levels anyway.

 

I think I levelled with 5 points in immortal the whole time to get extra rage from Sunder and free screams.

 

For a strong, Leap > savage kick > scream > choke > smash

Remember you have obliterate too which gives you another free scream and you can always chilling scream/savage kick. In rare cases you could use Viscous slash.

 

Personally, I'd use Immortal till 40 and then switch to Rage. The guy I quoted is right though, if you think the Rage tree is all about the smash then you're missing out on a lot the spec has to offer.

 

Once you get into a few groups where the tank doesnt know how to, well... tank, then you'll start to see what I mean. You learn to maximize your effectiveness in the group without using smash by controlling the mobs. You can use that in pvp when you arnt able to smash or when wearing down a healer before bursting. Control the fight and sneak your smash in if possible.

[ArtMonster]

been vengeance the whole way (well till 46 at least so far )

 

Quinn geared 'well' can keep me alive through just about anything as I slice and dice.

 

havent had any boss problems at all.

 

set up your keybinds comfortablty, and you will slay well in pvp too with Veng.

[phga]

I went Immortal with Quinn all the way, with some DPS talents thrown in and a mix of DPS and Tank gear/mods. It has been quite a ride, I leveled pretty darn fast (specially 40-49) and I never died while soloing (kept Quinn's gear better than my own). But having seen the patch notes, I'll be going Rage in 1.2. It's getting a much needed survivability boost and I've always been curious about the spec. Should be fun