Debuff Stacking Needs to be looked at.

[Spymaster]

Honestly, it's not like damage rotations are that complicated for most classes. When my Sniper is specced MM, I use all of 4 abilities when I'm not getting attacked. My Sage is heal specced and I spend a lot of each match spamming bubble, HOT and my big heal. My Vanguard's primary damage rotation only consists of 4 buttons.

.

 

This is a good point. I guess playing operative, in which just getting to a place where you can use your high damage abiliites once sours me to the whole spamming the same rotation at range thing.

[Greyfeld]

This is a good point. I guess playing operative, in which just getting to a place where you can use your high damage abiliites once sours me to the whole spamming the same rotation at range thing.

 

The thing is, ranged classes don't have to play as frantically as melee classes do most of the time. In melee, you have to worry about positioning and mitigating damage for the lowest cooldown cost possible. When you play a ranged character, you don't have to worry about that sort of thing until somebody actually goes out of their way to attack you. My Marauder is only level 23, but his damage rotation alone is 5 buttons, not taking into account popping shields, burning Frenzy, and Force Charging to new targets.

 

When my Sniper gets attacked, my 4-key rotation easily triples. But I don't have to worry about all those extra keys until I actually get attacked, because I can lounge around 30+ yards away.

[Jestunhi]

im fairly certain that debuffs stack - just not debuffs of the same type, regardless of what the icons show. While Shattering Shot + Heat Signature stack, and would even stack with Sundering Strike, two Shattering Shots dont stack, and Multiple piles of heat signature dont stack.

 

Ill head over to Sithwarrior.com and see if someone there has done the math, but i *know* a dev once said that stacking 3-4 Sith Warriors in a party wouldnt help you because their sunders dont stack with each other.

 

I'm not sure about this instance but certainly you can't rely on the buff / debuff bar.

 

Use a runspeed buff which doesn't stack with sprint (like hold the line or hydraulic overrides) and both will be on the bar but only sprint will be working.

[BobaFurz]

You're telling me a ranged class can hit a full battlemaster marauder for 2.5k with each shot?

 

You get hit, in full epics at 12-13k hp only, for 2.2-2.5k at mid 40ish with grav round, but from a single commando at the same lvl around. Getting 4 shotted more or less without a shield up.

 

Do you know what people told me in the warrior section....L2p to interrupt

Edited March 4, 2012 by BobaFurz

[Vetril]

The problem with tha debuff isnt that it stacks armor debuffs imo its that it actually stacks the heatseeker missile dmg buff 5% per lvl so if you have 3 of em merc/commando your looking at a 75% increase to heatseeker/demoround damage which is already high due to 0% armor

 

The problem is that they stack, I'd say.

[Astarica]

The debuff basically works out for any Commando/Merc beyond the first the target takse another 10% damage per extra Commando/Merc attacking him. That's not an insignificant amount especially consider no other classes benefit like this. If you have two Marauders attacking the same guy he takes 200% the damage compared to one, not 220% (each Merc is doing 110% of his normal damage due to extra debuffs). It's not like putting stacks of the armor debuff is hard or anything.

 

That said I don't think Heatseeker benefits the same way, i.e. 2 stacks of 5 doesn't mean you get +50%, otherwise we should see much bigger crits when there are a lot of Merc/Commando around and that's not exactly a rare occurence.

[Jestunhi]

The fact is that without a combat log threads like this come about because "I think he hit me harder than normal!".

 

It would be nice if BW could clarify the situation.

[KonohaFlash]

You get hit, in full epics at 12-13k hp only, for 2.2-2.5k at mid 40ish with grav round, but from a single commando at the same lvl around. Getting 4 shotted more or less without a shield up.

 

Do you know what people told me in the warrior section....L2p to interrupt

 

Those people are usually the ones who are attacking the dps instead of healers. I can't interupt two commandos at the same time unless they are dumb enough to stand close enough and i use intimdating roar, which isn't even a interrupt.

 

I'm usually always attacking healers so I can't really prevent myself from getting hit from ranged classes and I always save my interrupts for healers.

 

That is besides the point, not all classes have interrupts to begin with, so they are at a disadvantage in that regard.

 

Not to mention interrupting doesn't clear the damage debuff and only prevents one commando from using it for 4 seconds. The warzones i play in, there are usually 2-3 of them.

Edited March 4, 2012 by KonohaFlash

[Greyfeld]

You get hit, in full epics at 12-13k hp only, for 2.2-2.5k at mid 40ish with grav round, but from a single commando at the same lvl around. Getting 4 shotted more or less without a shield up.

 

Do you know what people told me in the warrior section....L2p to interrupt

 

The merc may have stocked up on expertise mods and gotten extremely lucky with crits. Because my BH is level 36 with about 15% crit and only hits 2k+ on crits against light armor.

[BobaFurz]

How many HP do you have in BM gear ?

 

What I dont like is the fact that people actually shout to l2p when you get litterally 4shotted at mid 40ies lvls in great gear, hitting you for 2.2-2.5k. If you have no shield up.

 

But this without any debuff stucking.

 

The merc may have stocked up on expertise mods and gotten extremely lucky with crits. Because my BH is level 36 with about 15% crit and only hits 2k+ on crits against light armor.

 

Add your 31 point talent, which is instant, and you are at 5000 dmg almost in 2 seconds. You have 12.xxx-13.xxx HP in this lvl range in good gear.

Edited March 4, 2012 by BobaFurz

[Kalliadies]

I have no problem with stacking debuffs.

 

It all plays into keeping group coordinated assaults interesting. If multiple people can set up a target with mutually beneficial stacking debuffs, more power to them.

 

In PvP armor is largely bypassed or ignored completely. Damage reduction/absorb is more prized by tanks

 

Next thing you will be asking for is DoTs of the same type not stacking.. THAT is when the game gets boring

Edited March 4, 2012 by Kalliadies

[Sylvarine]

Hmm, we were just discussing this exact topic in a match earlier on how some people were hitting so f#$king hard, literally dropping 20k hp players in 4-5 secs tops. This would explain a lot and good god, this is almost worse then stacking all the adrenals and relics at once given the # of players that play all these 3 button pushing dps classes. I hope they rework merc/bh/dps sorcs so they have to use their abilities just like an ops/mauraders or healing specced classes have to and see how many quit when they don't have the ezmode play anymore.

 

Astonishing how they can make certain class specs require them having to utilize 20+ hot keys all the time in comparison to other specs requiring a handful of hotkeys to be effective.

[KonohaFlash]

How many HP do you have in BM gear ?

 

What I dont like is the fact that people actually shout to l2p when you get litterally 4shotted at mid 40ies lvls in great gear, hitting you for 2.2-2.5k. If you have no shield up.

 

But this without any debuff stucking.

 

 

 

Add your 31 point talent, which is instant, and you are at 5000 dmg almost in 2 seconds. You have 12.xxx-13.xxx HP in this lvl range.

 

17k hp.

[kweassa]

I'm willing to accept a limit on debuff stacking...

 

..provided, that they also equally level out all the buff stacking.

 

 

And yes, don't pretend you people don't know what I'm talking about.

 

...since the amount of 'steroids' some people are on, they make all the talks about 'balance' between classes practically null and void.

 

There ain't no 'tactics' necessary when you are on two lines of buffs over your portrait.

[EternalFinality]

I'm willing to accept a limit on debuff stacking...

 

..provided, that they also equally level out all the buff stacking.

 

 

And yes, don't pretend you people don't know what I'm talking about.

 

...since the amount of 'steroids' some people are on, they make all the talks about 'balance' between classes practically null and void.

 

There ain't no 'tactics' necessary when you are on two lines of buffs over your portrait.

 

I'm pretty sure movespeed buffs don't stack with each other. If I'm sprinting and a Sentinel throws Transcendence on me, I'm not moving at 85% movespeed. You can easily notice this at the beginning of any huttball match, because Transcendence puts you in combat, yet the Sentinel doesn't move faster than the other people who receive the buff.

[KonohaFlash]

I'm pretty sure movespeed buffs don't stack with each other. If I'm sprinting and a Sentinel throws Transcendence on me, I'm not moving at 85% movespeed. You can easily notice this at the beginning of any huttball match, because Transcendence puts you in combat, yet the Sentinel doesn't move faster than the other people who receive the buff.

 

Yes presation/transcendence doesn't stack. However the buff marauders give which is called Bloodthirst whoch gives 15% damage and healing can stack.

 

I tested this with my friend earlier today. We both used Bloodthirt and it would show side by side together just like the grav/tracer debuff.

[BobaFurz]

This is an older and bigger thread about debuff stucking, its well known since weeks. Wonder if this is working as intended or not.

 

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=308326

 

 

In the french forum one screenshot was posted about a commando/Merc doing almost a 9k crit after 1.1. patch.

 

http://www.swtor.com/fr/community/showthread.php?p=3048877#post3048877

Edited March 5, 2012 by BobaFurz

[Astarica]

Well just because you have two buffs appear on your icon doesn't mean their effects stack.

 

If you activate Force Speed while you've Sprint on both buffs are up but you don't move faster htan out of combat with FS (with Sprint) versus in combat (no Sprint).

 

So the question is if you have two stacks of 5 Tracer Missiles are you really debuffed 50% or 25% on armor? I don't know if you can easily tell which is the case very easily. I know I can use a Railshot on someone afflicted with someone else's Tracer Missiles while my stacks aren't on, but not sure if the % adds together. I'm inclined to think they don't stack because otherwise having two sources of snare should bring your speed to next to nothing and it's hard for me to believe that no one else is snaring when I throw Withers on the enemy team permanently.

[BobaFurz]

Well just because you have two buffs appear on your icon doesn't mean their effects stack.

 

Someone in the older thread about debuff stucking (which I did post above you) did write:

 

I've been seeing crits of 6500-7000 fairly consistently on mobs in EV and Karaggas on my demo round with another commando in the group. With a base skill damage 2000-2200 (somewhere around there) I should be capping out around 5500 and that is if there is zero damage reduction from the boss.

 

 

 

This. Our merc was drooling over his 7k+ crit heatseekers when we paired him up with another merc on our latest KP run.

Mercs are definitely benefitting from each other specifically, it is not a universal gain from the armor pen.

It's not that the enemy has five 20% armor debuffs making it so the enemy has zero armor (even though it doesn't because it's always 20% of the last armor, so in reality it's 100% -> 80% -> 66% -> 55% -> 45% -> 37.5% with 5 stacks). What is making demo round hitting for more is demo round hits 5% harder per stack of grav round on the target. It's not just your own personal grav round debuff that makes it stronger, each stack of grav round on the target makes it hit 5% harder. In other words, if three commandos have 5 stacks of grav round on the target, there is now 15 stacks of grav round on the target. So now grav round hits 5x15 = 75% harder where as it "should" be only 25% because of the 5 stacks of your own personal grav round.

 

 

SSSSSSSSHHHhhhh!!!!!

Edited March 5, 2012 by BobaFurz

[Jadeor]

PvE group composition

 

Knight tank

Scoundrel healer

Sage healer

5x commando dps

 

=

 

everything dies

[eavn]

Merc/Troopers are one of the easiest classes to counter. I would pick 2 merc/troopers attacking me any day compared to 2 sorcs/sages.

 

ive got a level 50 commando on the thena vash server and i can't agree more with the quoted post, commandos are by far the easiest class to counter with the "gunnery" tree, that tree is the one you are complaining about as it gives gravround.

 

and no we don't "just" spam grav round/tracer missle, while we do use it alot, it is the basis for our rotations, grav round can give armour buff to us, debuff on enemy players and it boosts the damage of demo round and high impact bolt, which are our main burst dps moves, grav round also boosts full auto giving it 25% more damage, so yes we depend on it alot, but its called "inturupts", an easy type of move to use on us, when you take away our grav round you SEVERLY reduce our dps, which is what you should be doing, if you are not then you need to learn how to kill us better. as for our debuff stacking, if you are being hit by 2+ commandos, then for the love of god

 

line of sight us

 

its easy to do, and it is annoying for us as gravround/trace is not instant, so we are stationary to do considerable damage

 

2ldr, use inturputs/los us and you're fine, if not prepare to be killed off

[Stormlorr]

The fact is that without a combat log threads like this come about because "I think he hit me harder than normal!".

 

It would be nice if BW could clarify the situation.

If they add a combat log we sould be able to call them on their bull(poop_) though, as far as I'm concerned it was a planned move to hide how incompetent they are.