finansjapp Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I agree that Snipers are not good at running the ball in Hutball. We are prob the worst class at doing that. But we are THE BEST CLASS AT KILLING SINGLE TARGETS. End of story. No one matches our ability to kill someone very fast. As far as not bringing anything tot he table...incorrect once again. 2/3 of the WZ game types are based on taking and guarding objectives. If the sniper is the best class in the game at burning down a target as fast as possible, wouldn't that make them excellent at taking and defending an objective? Also, in these game types I play as a personal protector of the healers. I will set up right on top of them and make sure I take out anyone who is trying to mess with them. We have so much CC to deal with others that it is quite easy to keep a healer safe. In Hutball, defense is just as important as offense. Often times, when a team scores, the other team will have a couple guys in the middle waiting for the respawn and if they go unchecked, they have an easy score. I typically control the rafters and dont let anyone past the middle into our zone to setup an easy score. I would consider that a pretty important part of the game. Basically what you are saying is that any pure DPS class is worthless to bring into a WZ. You say that all of these other classes can DPS just as good as snipers (Which I have never experienced) yet they can bring more to the table. Really? Why bring a Marauder, Assassin, or DPS Operative into the game? They really don't do anything besides DPS either...and its worse DPS than snipers and its all melee. I have a Sage. I know from experience which class does more dmg. The sniper will EASILY kill a single target faster than a sage can. Sure the Sage will out AoE a sniper but who cares? Looking to put up impressive worthless numbers? Go with the Sage...it seems to really impress the scrubs on the forums. It just amazes me that unskilled players come into the forums and complain that a class is worthless in WZs just because they don't know how to PvP. You know what. We do not even play the same game. Stand on rafters in huttball and wait!? You are easily accessible there. You can not hide, and you can not sprint. Neither can you hide while in combat. You are to say it least. Free prey. Kill single targets fastest in the game? Who are we talking about then? Some yes, others no. To also say marauder, assassin and dps operative only bring dps!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRagingPwner Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 You know what. We do not even play the same game. Stand on rafters in huttball and wait!? You are easily accessible there. You can not hide, and you can not sprint. Neither can you hide while in combat. You are to say it least. Free prey. Kill single targets fastest in the game? Who are we talking about then? Some yes, others no. To also say marauder, assassin and dps operative only bring dps!? That must explain why you are so bad...you aren't even talking about the right game. So as a sniper you don't patrol the top of the map in Hutball? I almost never jump down to the ground...maybe that is your problem. I can hit every point on the map from the rafters. Learn where to stand. Easily accessible? It's hard to tell if you are being serious or not. There are 4 access points to top rafters...easily the least accessible area of the map. I dont understand your reasoning. I can see someone coming from a mile away when I am up top unless they have a leap. It's called having map awareness. I am not trying to hide from anyone. I am trying to kill anyone that comes near me. I can solo any class easily besides assassins. It sounds like you prefer to hide as a sniper just coming out when they arent paying attention to you? That shows your skill level right there. I was wondering why you were arguing so much with me but it is now obvious that you just are not able to do what I can do in WZs. It's ok. There are others who are in the same place that you are. I would rather have people try to come and kill me because they wont be able to. Its usually an easy kill for me. Free prey? How so? To what class am I free prey to by staying up top? If a melee tries running to me via a ramp, I can have them half dead before they even get to me. Stealthers are the only ones who really give me any challenge. I can easily kill any other ranged classes so they arent a problem for me. Entrench is your friend when fighting up top just as much as our Cover Pulse. I love when a melee works so hard to get to me and then when they are half dead, I knock them off the top (or into a fire) and finish them off below as they try to run and hide. Tank classes are the only classes in the game that we struggle to kill. Everyone knows that. Im ok with that. Any other class is pretty easy to kill. I am saying that DPS assassins, Marauders, and DPS operative bring mostly just DPS to a WZ. Their utility is negligible, especially outside of Hutball. People overvalue this whole "Utility" thing. 2/3 of the WZs, the goal is to kill as fast as possible to either take or defend an area. Hutball is the only game type where leaping or pulling matters. I hope that you are able to get a little bit better at playing the sniper class because it is actually a pretty fun class to play when you know what you are doing. Good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finansjapp Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) You know what. Im done discussing this with you. When you say you see people from far away you can not face much opposition. Its good you mention stealthers can be a pain, but still. And yes I patrol the top also. For your information. I do quite well with my sniper, and have a lot of fun with it. But I can do much much better with my two other characters. Edited March 8, 2012 by finansjapp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belgaram Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I am the Lethality Hybrid and I love it. I don't stand around in one place and snipe passers by, I go out and play strategic. I Love groups that gravitate together. I absolutely dot them up and cull, I absolutely use Orbital Strike whenever I can... Usually in front of fires when a group with the ball is waiting to cross, or at the center when groups love to gather for coffee. I will snipe someone low on health in a heart beat. Because that puts them behind the wall and less people attacking/defending. My whole reason for going Lethality based was for the mobility so that I'm not a sitting duck. I went MM for a long time and after getting my arse handed to me from having to be in cover all the time, I went for a change. Now I can chase people down that are either attacking our ball carrier or chasing down the opposing carrier and hit them with a bunch of damage. For the record, I screen shotted a pretty average Huttball score... I'm Admar at the top... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/Belgaram/300k.jpg Not anywhere near 600k... Thats impressive as hell... I've only broken 400k in voidstar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaidax Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) You know what. Im done discussing this with you. He is right and you are wrong, as simple as that... When you compare our death count average to most other WZ participants - we are sure as hell not a free prey there. In between all the CC, range and defensive abilities we are a huge pain in the *** to kill for all the damage we do. Edited March 8, 2012 by Gaidax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neliok Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 You say your job is to dps. Then why do you play a sniper? You can easily get the same dps with other classes. Come with arguments. Um he actually did come with arguements if you werent paying attention, he stated that as a pure dps class he doesn't have access to healing medals or defender medals as all the tank/dps AC's and healer/dps AC's so 99% of the time the only classes that even get above 8 medals are sorcs/assassins powertech/mercenary or operatives and as of now any medals over 4 is just flexing useless epeen but how many medals a person has in a game doesn't mean **** because most of them can be fudged. all a non healing sorc has to do is stop doing dmg to get his 2.5k heal and 75k healing in a game. all a non tanking assassin/juggernaut has to do to get his defender medals is taunt a couple people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neliok Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Post the link because I would like to see what he said. I spend a lot of time on the forums and see a lot of talk about 1 million damage and everyone who knows PvP knows exactly how it happens. Massive AoE is the only way to do it and it really doesn't do much in terms of winning a game. In fact, I have seen screenshots where the guy was at 1mil and the team lost! You will almost always see a couple healers on the other team with 800k healing to go along with those since it is just so easy to heal when no one is really dropping that fast. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=318443 Im guessing that is the post you are referring to. If you notice, his sole goal in the game was to hit 1 million. He went in there with 2 pocket healers and a tank that was guarding him. That means that he is basically invincible. Want to know what they did? Without even seeing the replay, I bet they had all 4 of them stack on top of each other in front of a door, with a horrible opposing team, guarding and healing each other while he casted AoEs on top of themselves. It really isn't impressive and if you see all of the posts following his screenshots...everyone is saying the same thing. Go ahead, be one of the few scrubs who thinks that what he did is impressive. Id bet that a lethality spec sniper trying to do the same BS that he did would be able to do the same thing. If he did it in the flow of a game where both teams were good and trying to win, then I would be impressed. Im more impressed with the 2 pocket healers than I am with his DPS. and the funny thing is...his team still lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neliok Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Again, that's your theory. He stated he did not use a lot of aoe. There was also screenshot from sage with 1kk dmg in that thread. Did he do the same? And we have yet to see if Sn/GS could beat the number. Question if he stated that monkey's fly out of his *** and give him free money would you believe it? his highest hit is 4.1k critical....not to mention tracking down 64 kills with nothing but single target is nearly impossible unless they are bad kungfu movie styling you and just coming up to him one at a time 64 times saying HI MY TURN Edited March 8, 2012 by Neliok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffinslol Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I really dont understand why anyone is having this argument in the first place..both marks and leth are equally viable to do top damage, ive played both and got 500-600k damage with both of them, in multiple games...it legit depends on what play style you prefer, it seems like every class forum spends its time arguing with no proof, saying my spec is better then your spec.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkei Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I agree that Snipers are not good at running the ball in Hutball. We are prob the worst class at doing that. But we are THE BEST CLASS AT KILLING SINGLE TARGETS. End of story. No one matches our ability to kill someone very fast. Wrong. Marauder, rage juggernaut and firebug powertech can kill faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finansjapp Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) He is right and you are wrong, as simple as that... When you compare our death count average to most other WZ participants - we are sure as hell not a free prey there. In between all the CC, range and defensive abilities we are a huge pain in the *** to kill for all the damage we do. No he does not know what he is talking about. A good team that have lightsabers will see a sniper run around on top there, and they will either come for you (and you wont see him come), jump to you, or grapple you down. You wont be allowed to stand there and dominate the middle. Again, sure if you play against bad teams, but an equal good team will NEVER let that happen. Ive seen him talk about orbital strike and how good that is in other threads also. The only thing it is good for is to put on doors and objectives. Very few who have faced that stand and take it. Edited March 9, 2012 by finansjapp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaidax Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Seeing you think Orbital Strike is only good for doors just shows your skill level. Orbital Strike is amazing anti-melee tool and it can be chained into an insane starter burst too, when you chain it with CC and Let Shot. Also it is very convenient that you can't be jumped and pulled in cover and with entrench, people basically can't do **** about it, except going a long way up to the top ramp, while you and your team nukes and cc their face. You think that Snipers are in WZ 1v8 - I assure you, it is not the case. You keep invoking this "if you face a good team" argument, but you know what, I run in good teams too and trust me getting to me through my premade buddies is hell and staying there is even worse. Reminds me of a recent 2v5 standoff in Huttball near the enemy healing power-up after scoring... that was fun, as a side note Orbital Strike totally annihilated there. BTW, if you happen to have awareness issues - go and update your ini file with a camera distance line, you can remove camera zoom out restriction nicely. Edited March 9, 2012 by Gaidax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRagingPwner Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 No he does not know what he is talking about. A good team that have lightsabers will see a sniper run around on top there, and they will either come for you (and you wont see him come), jump to you, or grapple you down. You wont be allowed to stand there and dominate the middle. Again, sure if you play against bad teams, but an equal good team will NEVER let that happen. Ive seen him talk about orbital strike and how good that is in other threads also. The only thing it is good for is to put on doors and objectives. Very few who have faced that stand and take it. I thought he said he was done arguing? I knew he wouldn't be able to stay away from multiple people saying he's wrong. If more than 1 melee jumps on a sniper he is dead...but the same thing will happen with any class. Are you serious? If it is a 1v1 fight, the sniper is fine. If I am doing premade vs premade, I typically follow around our healer to peel people off of him...do you really think that they are going to send 2 lightsaber classes to kill me rather than take out the healer? By all means, please do that and give me healer free reign to heal. My healers know that I am squishy and that most good people are going to either go for me or the other healers so they pay attention to it. Having a tank guard whoever gets jumped helps as well. It is quite obvious that you are doing something wrong if you now have more than 3 people tell you that you are doing it wrong...but keep arguing buddy. It sure makes it sound like you know what you are talking about. And I dont say that I use OS all the time. Quit making stuff up. I said that it is very usable in situations. The ones you stated as well as casting on yourself when melee are trying to get on you. They either stand in it or scatter. Its also useful when someone is trying to LOS you. Cast it on or next to their cover and they will have to leave. Is that what is has come to now? You are completely making stuff up to try to make me sound like I dont know what I'm talking about? Good job. Keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manganese Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Can I ask what spec you mean by lethality hybrid? Is that MM/Lethality? I'm really looking to top these damage numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finansjapp Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Seeing you think Orbital Strike is only good for doors just shows your skill level. Orbital Strike is amazing anti-melee tool and it can be chained into an insane starter burst too, when you chain it with CC and Let Shot. Also it is very convenient that you can't be jumped and pulled in cover and with entrench, people basically can't do **** about it, except going a long way up to the top ramp, while you and your team nukes and cc their face. You think that Snipers are in WZ 1v8 - I assure you, it is not the case. You keep invoking this "if you face a good team" argument, but you know what, I run in good teams too and trust me getting to me through my premade buddies is hell and staying there is even worse. Reminds me of a recent 2v5 standoff in Huttball near the enemy healing power-up after scoring... that was fun, as a side note Orbital Strike totally annihilated there. BTW, if you happen to have awareness issues - go and update your ini file with a camera distance line, you can remove camera zoom out restriction nicely. As I said. We do not play the same game. You compare you and a good premade group to a standard group fight. Even a mediocre class can shine then. Either you play in a very good group, or you havent faced a really good group. But we are not talking about that here. We talk about an EQUAL playfield. You may not know what that is, but in an equal playfield a sniper is underpowered compared to others. There i sno doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finansjapp Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I thought he said he was done arguing? I knew he wouldn't be able to stay away from multiple people saying he's wrong. If more than 1 melee jumps on a sniper he is dead...but the same thing will happen with any class. Are you serious? If it is a 1v1 fight, the sniper is fine. This is not about me. I play a shadow and a sorceror. I can freely admit my sorceror is overpowered. My shadow seem fine as it is, but is way stronger than my sniper. That is what I am talking about. Besides, I dont listen to your ranting playing in premades vs pugs. I was done discussing with you, but you continue to talk about things that you dont know anything about. In 1v1 in some cases the sniper will just die. You dont have a chance. That is fine, because there are nemesis class to all classes in a game like this. Again not what Im talking about. Sniper is the least played class in the game. It is a reason for it. Players who understand the game try to tell that, but gets distracted by the so called kings who dont play equal playfields. They talk about a different game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpatian Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 http://tinypic.com/r/vh5ldg/5 http://tinypic.com/r/33agqi0/5 It is possible .Im 48 valor with no full champ yet. The only condition is the enemy team to have a bunch of healers and to not be dumb. in a regular game i have around 250-350k or less depends how long the match is. sorry my english Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manganese Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 http://tinypic.com/r/vh5ldg/5 http://tinypic.com/r/33agqi0/5 It is possible .Im 48 valor with no full champ yet. The only condition is the enemy team to have a bunch of healers and to not be dumb. in a regular game i have around 250-350k or less depends how long the match is. sorry my english Wow, what spec are you running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffinslol Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Wow, what spec are you running? hes running 2/16/23 from the looks of it which is from testing the highest damage spec you can play as a sniper right now, I have had similar results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manganese Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Thanks for that, i might try this spec out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdvesper Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) http://i42.tinypic.com/23rwit.jpg I have many examples of games above 600k but I'm stuffed I'm going to upload them all. I'm running full lethality 2/8/31 because I prefer to have my single target burst damage from Cull to take down healers. A fully critted Cull with all buffs and including WZ +15% up can do 8k to 9k damage. (you can achieve these numbers without BM gear, easily) Edited March 10, 2012 by xdvesper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdvesper Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 That being said, I do play a Marksman / Eng hybrid now because it's that much easier to get the 5k crit medals although you do less overall AOE damage. With optimal gear you can be scoring 5k crits on even heavy armor (troopers, guardians) and have no problems hitting 300k damage. You can go up to 6k crits or 7k crits if you have the WZ +15% buff up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Famex Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 We had a bad team and lost but this one I found of me doing 657k, I can get as high as 800k if i push it. Will be in my video which is inc soon! http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/4799/gamedps.png Uploaded with ImageShack.us ~Game Rank 85 Sniper <Chronic Insanity> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deviltreh Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 As a 24 sniper I got 189,000 on a alderaan battle and some guy was like "pfft crappy damage lol" he said anything less than 500k is lulzubad. I asked him for screenshots of him hitting 500k... no response. Obviously he wasn't good. Still doesn't change the fact that <300k is lulzubad.......................................................................................................................................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaed Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Depends how many operatives they have and whether or not said operatives have it in for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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