deltaminus Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 1. You can mark enemy healers 2. You can mark friendly healers so team mates can keep them alive 3. This is a team game, if the enemy team is working as a team and killing healers as a group, can't really blame them for good teamwork. You can blame your own team for a lack of teamwork though. 4. Seeing someone far away with a raid marker is a moot point for some maps like Voidstar and Huttball on account of their objectives. If you're not near the doors/ball, you're already doing it wrong. I can see this as being somewhat of an issue in Alderan if the ENTIRE enemy team was marked. 5. Healers can be marked as targets, so can DPS. If you're a healer and keep dieing to a particular player, maybe it's time you mark them so your team can kill them for you. 6. This is a team game. From the sounds of things the OP doesn't like the fact that her opponents worked together as a team and beat her with better teamwork. 7. Everyone, regardless of class should understand they'll die in WZs. To act incensed about it is plain silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandrillagon Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 This is pretty much how it's done whenever we're playing against good Rep teams on my server. The mark is really nothing but a heads up when you have more than one healer on the field, and killing that mark becomes exponentially harder in that case. Especially when they have a good tank switching guards and getting heals. You don't need to be in a premade for a tank to guard you, or for another healer to heal you. That's just people doing their job. Exactly. Anyone knows from enough pvp experience that healer supporting another healer with tank switching guard is not so uncommon and a beast to deal with. The mark simply gives us a heads up as you said which is more than fair I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBCHiyde Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 ...most of YOU can't get PAST THE RAGE and the EMOTIONS in your head to see the POINT. Pot, Kettle. Kettle, Pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiajayde Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) 1. You can mark enemy healers 2. You can mark friendly healers so team mates can keep them alive 3. This is a team game, if the enemy team is working as a team and killing healers as a group, can't really blame them for good teamwork. You can blame your own team for a lack of teamwork though. 4. Seeing someone far away with a raid marker is a moot point for some maps like Voidstar and Huttball on account of their objectives. If you're not near the doors/ball, you're already doing it wrong. I can see this as being somewhat of an issue in Alderan if the ENTIRE enemy team was marked. 5. Healers can be marked as targets, so can DPS. If you're a healer and keep dieing to a particular player, maybe it's time you mark them so your team can kill them for you. 6. This is a team game. From the sounds of things the OP doesn't like the fact that her opponents worked together as a team and beat her with better teamwork. You are dead wrong the the fact i don't like team work THAT's the point a mark IS NOT COORDINATION its i see mark i cc/pull/kill mark DHA did i do good its thats NOT skill L2P not L2mark more words in my mouth i did not say i didn't want you to mark your own team its a ENEMY mark that the problem again stay on topic and thats its no FUN when you are mark not that it can be over come that the team need to L2p the point is its no FUN thats the topic Edited March 4, 2012 by Maiajayde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molatova Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Like I said often times a healer will have a support healer with a smart tank switching guard. This is especially true for republic teams since they have a higher ratio of healers compared to empire. The last thing we need to worry about is finding the healer. The real challenge is taking them and their support down. Edit: Maiajayde, didn't mean to imply you are valor 60 but any healer at level 50 and doing pvp has learned a thing or two about evasion and survival which makes for a more satisfy predatory experience as a dps player. Im sure maia has. But with that big mark you see threw the wall still lets everyone one know you are there your skill at Evasion and Survival goes way down. No one should know where a enemy player in a WF is at all times you should have to at least be aware of whats around you not just look healer nyuck nyuck nyuck keep them away from ball handler cause i see the big mark or kill that one frist so we can put bomb on wall and when he/she jumps down with 5 other people i know who is who not even having to try to find you. it takes skill out of the WF. Edited March 4, 2012 by Molatova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tservo Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Edit: Maiajayde, didn't mean to imply you are valor 60 but any healer at level 50 and doing pvp has learned a thing or two about evasion and survival which makes for a more satisfy predatory experience as a dps player. This is the problem. If a healer uses those skills gained from experience, successfully gets out of view and escapes, or would have, - the target marker over their head negates all of that. It's pretty ridiculous talking about a "predatory experience" when all you're doing is chasing down a giant target marker honestly. Someone like you should see how much more fun it would be without the easy target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tservo Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 The mark is really nothing but a heads up when you have more than one healer on the field.. Sorry but you, and your premade, can easily communicate how many there are in chat. No need for any markers there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltaminus Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) more words in my mouth i did not say i didn't want you to mark your own team its a ENEMY mark that the problem We all understand you don't like dieing to the enemy team, it's clear enough by now. Dieing to enemy players is a normal part of PvP. If you don't like dieing to other players, perhaps PvP is not for you. Taken from dictionary.com co·or·di·na·tion [koh-awr-dn-ey-shuhn] Show IPA noun 1. the act or state of coordinating or of being coordinated. 2. proper order or relationship. 3. harmonious combination or interaction, as of functions or parts. To put a mark on an enemy player, regardless of class, does indeed facilitate the coordination necessary to kill a particular target. The ones that benefit most from these markers are pug groups, as they lack coordination via 3rd party software such as vent, and are essentially relying on the game software as is. So you're trying to gimp disorganized pugs that NEED this game feature, while the organized premades won't lose any sleep over this. Dieing is part of PvP, regardless of how FUN or not FUN it might be for you. I have FUN killing enemy players, but I know that to have this FUN, I must risk dieing myself. Edited March 4, 2012 by deltaminus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpLTunnel Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Why is it always the healers who bring this up and complain in every MMO I have ever plaid that has or had raid marking? At worst I think the icon should reset upon death and someone should have to reapply it. That is more fair is it not? Marking should remain aloud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tservo Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Why is it always the healers who bring this up and complain in every MMO I have ever plaid that has or had raid marking? Probably because their WZ experience is complete crap since they can't do a damn thing because of some unfair marker above their head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belialle Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) 1. You can mark enemy healers 2. You can mark friendly healers so team mates can keep them alive 3. This is a team game, if the enemy team is working as a team and killing healers as a group, can't really blame them for good teamwork. You can blame your own team for a lack of teamwork though. 4. Seeing someone far away with a raid marker is a moot point for some maps like Voidstar and Huttball on account of their objectives. If you're not near the doors/ball, you're already doing it wrong. I can see this as being somewhat of an issue in Alderan if the ENTIRE enemy team was marked. 5. Healers can be marked as targets, so can DPS. If you're a healer and keep dieing to a particular player, maybe it's time you mark them so your team can kill them for you. 6. This is a team game. From the sounds of things the OP doesn't like the fact that her opponents worked together as a team and beat her with better teamwork. Marking friendly healers is one thing. It helps people stay in LoS and range for heals. It helps them peel better. It encourages a higher level of team play. Marking enemy healers just makes for EZ-mode PvP for the lazy/new players who derp their way through WZs without ever bothering to discern a high priority target from a low priority target. Having that gigantic mark on the enemy healer's head really just lowers the level of play. With raid markers on enemy players, the derpies don't even have to find a good target or even think about what a good target might be. Allowing raid markers on enemy players is just silly. There's a reason you can't do it in certain other games which bear a striking similarity to this game. The reason is that it sucks. It encourages lazy play, and it makes the game extremely un-fun for the marked person. You could be the best player in the world and it wouldn't matter. You could be the Jebus of Star Wars. If you have a marker on your head, you are at an extremely unfair disadvantage. It's not right. Edited March 4, 2012 by belialle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltaminus Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Probably because their WZ experience is complete crap since they can't do a damn thing because of some unfair marker above their head. Oh, you mean the marker their own OPS leader placed above their head, but then their team mates ignored? So when 3 guys where trying to kill the healer, their team mates completely ignored the healer because they where to busy tunneling some other target? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babiegirlla Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) having multiple healers in warzones with multiple tanks, especially in rateds, and being able to mark them is very important. Healing in PvP with tanks guarding already makes healing overpowered as hell. besides it`s not like people on the other team wouldn`t be able to find and kill you any less fast if they`re communicating, as for "other games" not allowing marks... "other games" are not this game, and "other games" had ways like arena to tell who was obviously a healer and wasn`t guarded by a tank who didn`t need to be marked because there wasn`t 10 things to hide behind, or there was only 3 players. you can do the same thing to the other team can you not? like it or not, sentinels and people like me are going to be on your butt in a split second, mark or no mark we`ll find and stay on you, some things you just have to accept Edited March 4, 2012 by babiegirlla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltaminus Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Marking enemy healers just makes for EZ-mode PvP for the lazy/new players who derp their way through WZs without ever bothering to discern a high priority target from a low priority target. Having a gigantic mark on the enemy healer's head really just lowers the level of play. With raid markers on enemy players, the derpies don't even have to find a good target or even think about what a good target might be. Wait what? So if I mark targets for my lesser skilled team mates, it's a bad thing? The fact that I'm helping them play better and be more successful, is bad? When some of my team mates fail to understand the basic objectives of a game, it's pretty clear they need to be lead and NEED markers above targets. Oh right, it's only bad if it makes you (my opponent) lose. How is you having to deal with a greater challenge lowering the level of play? You have to work harder as a healer and your team mates have to work to protect you... how is that a lower level of play again? Edited March 4, 2012 by deltaminus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tservo Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Wait what? So if I mark targets for my lesser skilled team mates, it's a bad thing? The fact that I'm helping them play better and be more successful, is bad? When some of my team mates fail to understand the basic objectives of a game, it's pretty clear they need to be lead and NEED markers above targets. Oh right, it's only bad if it makes you (my opponent) lose. Really this is your argument - people need the markers because they suck? Thanks for proving our point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltaminus Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Really this is your argument - people need the markers because they suck? Thanks for proving our point. Well you're the one who says they suck. So you really shouldn't be afraid of dieing to them. I'm saying they do indeed NEED the markers because it does indeed HELP them play better as a team. Considering how many threads are out there complaining about premades, it's sad that someone is trying to take away one of the tools that puts a PUG on a more equal footing with a premade. Edited March 4, 2012 by deltaminus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belialle Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Wait what? So if I mark targets for my lesser skilled team mates, it's a bad thing? The fact that I'm helping them play better and be more successful, is bad? When some of my team mates fail to understand the basic objectives of a game, it's pretty clear they need to be lead and NEED markers above targets. Oh right, it's only bad if it makes you (my opponent) lose. How is you having to deal with a greater challenge lowering the level of play? You have to work harder as a healer and your team mates have to work to protect you... how is that a lower level of play again? I think it's a bad thing, yeah. I'm glad you picked up on that. I was worried that I might have been beating around the bush too much and that my subtle point might have gone unnoticed. Our lesser skilled teammates should learn how to choose their own targets. With raid makers, they get to be lazy. They don't have to think about choosing a strategically important target. That lowers the level of play. Sure, you can argue that it encourages team play by forcing the healer's team to play extremely well in order to protect them, but we both know how this scenario is likely to play out in a PuG. Hell, even in a premade. There's only so much you can do about 4 people bursting a single target down very quickly. The effort required by the aggressor: Follow the star. The effort required by the healer and its team: Well, it's a lot harder than just "follow the star," isn't it? It's not right. Edited March 4, 2012 by belialle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absit Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 The effort required by the aggressor: Follow the star. The effort required by the healer and its team: Well, it's a lot harder than just "follow the star," isn't it? It's not right. [/color] Unless, of course, both teams follow the star.. I don't know why anyone would complain about this, most of the time when I mark a healer my PuG still ignores them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandrillagon Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 having multiple healers in warzones with multiple tanks, especially in rateds, and being able to mark them is very important. Healing in PvP with tanks guarding already makes healing overpowered as hell. ^^^ So true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltaminus Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Our lesser skilled teammates should learn how to choose their own targets. So if I use marks to teach my lesser skilled teammates which targets they should be picking, they're doing what you yourself have just said they "should" do. I'm teaching a man to fish, I'm not just giving him the fish. And what you're asking for will make it easier for you, essentially lowering the skill cap required for you to be successful. So in fact you're asking for the game to be made easier for you, at the expense of others. Maybe it's time you put in a little effort, and asked your team mates to help you out and protect you. Edited March 4, 2012 by deltaminus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belialle Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 So if I use marks to teach my lesser skilled teammates which targets they should be picking, they're doing what you yourself have just said they "should" do. I'm teaching a man to fish, I'm not just giving him the fish. And what you're asking for will make it easier for you, essentially lowering the skill cap required for you to be successful. So in fact you're asking for the game to be made easier for you, at the expense of others. Maybe it's time you put in a little effort, and asked your team mates to help you out and protect you. Oh, please. There will always be players who target healers. I choose my targets fine (most of the time ), and I can kill/terrorize pretty much any healer I come across. It's the derp zerg that we're talking about when we are discussing marking targets. I think that allowing us to put raid markers on enemy players is bad design. We should have to do a little bit of thinking to find our target. We sure as hell should not see them through walls from across the map. That is just silly. It's not even remotely fair. Also, you're not teaching anyone to fish by marking their targets for them. Come on, now. You're just setting the cruise control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattotwo Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Could you Imagine marks on Rated BG's the outcry would be Enormous In high rated BGs in wow they call targets out ie BS pally healer (name) focus/Cc Pretty much the same as marking.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Sorry but you, and your premade, can easily communicate how many there are in chat. No need for any markers there. I don't run premades. Not really sure where you even got that idea. I use marks because I don't run in premades, and I like to easily communicate to the other pug players where they need to focus their attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Oh, please. There will always be players who target healers. I choose my targets fine (most of the time ), and I can kill/terrorize pretty much any healer I come across. It's the derp zerg that we're talking about when we are discussing marking targets. I think that allowing us to put raid markers on enemy players is bad design. We should have to do a little bit of thinking to find our target. We sure as hell should not see them through walls from across the map. That is just silly. It's not even remotely fair. Also, you're not teaching anyone to fish by marking their targets for them. Come on, now. You're just setting the cruise control. Personally, when I'm running warzones, I'm not there to teach players to fish. I'm there to win. When I'm not in warzones, I'm all about helping my fellow players to become better, but that has no place INSIDE the warzone, when every moment matters. In that circumstance, I don't care about helping my teammates learn to become better players, I just want them to focus the correct people, and w/out vent or running in a premade, it's far easier to coordinate w/ a pug group by simply marking the person you want them to kill. That is exactly what the target marker is for. I don't see anyone complaining about using them to focus dps in PvE. Is it not a crutch there too? Why aren't you harping about making fellow raiders learn which targets to focus first every single time w/out the aid of marking? Because that's what the target marker is for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wessik Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 IF marking is so powerful that it can overcome a PREMADE WITH VENT with just pugs then it need to go that is the point i lol'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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