Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Holytoe]

So I've been thinking this over and the nitpick post a few posts back just reiterated to me why this might be important. (Hopefully meta-talking about the thread itself is on topic. XD)

 

How would folks feel about making a new, reorganized first post for this topic, and then asking the mods to close this one for good and redirect to the fresh one?

 

A new reorganized post could have our "mission statement" (i.e., desire for information, not implementation), with a bit of detail regarding things many of us would like to know (vague timeline, is it actually in work, current companions or no, etc.). It could also include a FAQ modeled on sparklecat's (maybe a little less flippant ) to try to head off rehashing of the same old stuff.

 

And of course, a place to put all the extant dev quotes (and possibly those interview quotes from the Doctors) would be good, too.

 

I think having first post more relevant to current discussion might save us a lot of repetition (not all of it, of course... and would serve as a point of reference for all those quotes and things. As far as who would actually post it, it might be most helpful if it was put up by someone who is fairly active in this thread and isn't planning to unsubscribe, in case it needs edits. (I'm willing to write a draft, as far as that goes, but I've had a similar "thread maintenance" job before and got screwed when my workplace blocked that site. >_> Don't want to run into that here.)

 

At any rate, just an idea to clarify *our* end of the communication. Thoughts?

 

Yes, supported.

 

For those choosing to do this, may I humbly suggest:

Since pointing out spelling, grammar, or other errors in a post is against rules of conduct, be sure to choose your language carefully. I believe clear, concise, simple language is required here so the reader will not miss the message.

 

[Kharnis]

Ah, okay. Thanks for the heads up. I wasn't sure, and trust me, I want SGRs in the game, but I wanted to be certain. Please take no offense to the question.

 

There's a well-known saying that goes, "It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." There's a related saying (that I just made up, so all royalties come to me) that says, "It's better to ask a question and have others think you a fool than to remain silent and feel foolish."

 

Bottom line? Never be afraid to ask questions. The only people who'll look like fools and idiots are those who'll make fun of you for wanting to actually have accurate information before you come to a conclusion. I don't think there are any posters here who are pro-SGRAs who'll take offence from your question.

[Kaenna]

Well, I'm glad we got a response and it's about what I expected. Though I don't know if we'll hear anything else before they start hitting the conventions.

 

I hope we do as I'm still really torn about my characters and if I should play them, remake them or leave them alone. Some haven't gotten the the romance companions while others have. Sadly the ones I really really like have...

[MusedMoose]

Some really good points here, everyone. Also very good to see discussion here is still going; this thread is the only one I visit regularly on the boards and I'd miss it.

 

As for questions to ask in the Q&As and so forth: I agree that we probably shouldn't ask what characters will be SGR options; I think that's something BioWare won't reveal until they're good and ready. Hell, they weren't good and ready to reveal that we're getting a story update until yesterday.

 

I do think that it's a good idea to ask about the mechanics of affection* and whether we'll be able to access SGRs with max-affection characters or if we'll have to reroll characters to get SGRs going from the start. That seems like the sort of thing they can figure out fairly early on, and if they're set on how it's going to work, they should be able to tell us.

 

Just speculating, of course, but the mechanics aspect seems like a question we're more likely to get an answer for, judging by previous Q&As.

 

Regardless of how it works out, I know I wouldn't want to hit 50, get the update, and only then have my characters' companions start opening up. It's a story thing for me. I'm just picturing all the stuff that Kira and my JK have done, all that remains in the storyline, and when Kira finally gets all cutely nervous and asks if my JK has feelings for her... My JK's reaction would be something like "Wait, after all the we've been through, now you're wondering if I see you as something more? ...shut up and kiss me."

 

 

*"Mechanics of Affection" would be a great album title.

Edited March 7, 2012 by MusedMoose

[Kioma]

Or a band name.

 

"Aaaand now.. Presentiiiiing... MUSEDMOOSE and the MECHANICS of AFFECTION!!!"

[jediknightcub]

So, to clarify--because I heard this floating around in guild chat without a specific source--are SGRAs going to be integrated into the leveling process or only included in post-Chapter 4 content? Or do we not know?

 

Thoughts on the ideas I heard floating about...

 

INTEGRATED INTO THE LEVELING PROCESS:

• If it's integrated into the leveling process, will we have to re-roll in order to experience the content?
  

 

• The alternative of offering a reset button for affection would need to be specifically for romantic affection progression only. Resetting affection in general would be unfair to us because all of the other non-romantic ways in which we've gained affection would be wiped out as well. That would, in turn, affect the effectiveness of Crew Skills for at least some period of time, placing us at a disadvantage with other players.
  

 

POST-CHAPTER 4 INTEGRATION

 

GOOD:

• It would eliminate the predicament some of us are facing of not leveling our characters in order to avoid bypassing SGRA content.
  
  

 

BAD:

• It's completely ridiculous that you can be heterosexual for 50 levels but not homosexual or bisexual. That exacerbates the feelings of exclusion felt by many LGBTQA players.
  
  

 

• We'd have to reach 50 in order to play a homosexual or bisexual character. Not cool.
  
  

 

 

Until this is actually implemented or we have more specific information about implementation and how it will affect our characters, we're still in the same position we've been in--except we now have a timeline (this year, yay) and we know they're making these specific SG storylines (which I sincerely appreciate).

 

How this affects current gameplay is still an important question that I think needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.

[Kioma]

So, to clarify--because I heard this floating around in guild chat without a specific source--are SGRAs going to be integrated into the leveling process or only included in post-Chapter 4 content? Or do we not know?

 

Short answer: we don't know. It's coming this year along with 'other story content' and they're not going to hero-sexualise all of the existing characters. They seem very, very intent on doing a full and satisfying job of it.

 

They are keeping tabs on the discussion and that's more or less all we know. Though from the expressions of the people on the panel when the question was asked I think they're very, very well aware of how sensitive the topic is.

[Fishybob]

Simple answer: the fact that this even needs to be considered a sensitive subject makes me seriously sad about the state of humanity. I understand if a developer doesn't want to include it for whatever reason (however misguided) but the fact that we even need to discuss hiding it is silly. This is life we're talking about. Just ignore the stuff you don't like, and go on with your lives.

 

Personally, as a straight male who just isn't that interested in making male characters, if same-sex isn't introduced in the next six months (a very reasonable timeframe) then I will be cancelling my account. I came for the story, and I got 95% of one with my shadow. Issero is a terrible romance option, not only is hitting on a guy not for me, but he's basically a talking popsicle stick with a similar personality to one. I don't care if me chasing Nadia around with us both wearing twi'lek slavegirl costumes makes some people uncomfortable. On that very same stroke, picturing someone actually following a romance with issero makes me equally uncomfortable. I'm not forced to do it (well, technically I am, but I'm arguing for a perfect world here) so I just use that crazy thing I have called a "choice."

 

As for the people with objections to the content itself being on their computer, I can understand that, again, however misguided it is (fantasy game? not real?) there should be an option on install on whether or not to include the bytes of data that make up the affront to any deities. Beyond that, seriously, guys. Grow up.

[Kioma]

I like your post, Fishybob. Your points are salient and wise (not to mention quite humorous in their imagery). The only thing I'd say is in regards to your last point: there is an option on install to not include the bytes of data that will offend people's interpretation of their religions. It's called Cancel. If having this sort of content offends so drastically that one can't stand to have even the potential of it on their computer, well, don't install the game.

[Fishybob]

I like your post, Fishybob. Your points are salient and wise (not to mention quite humorous in their imagery). The only thing I'd say is in regards to your last point: there is an option on install to not include the bytes of data that will offend people's interpretation of their religions. It's called Cancel. If having this sort of content offends so drastically that one can't stand to have even the potential of it on their computer, well, don't install the game.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. Don't like it, don't buy it. I don't donate money to the Mormon church (not singling them out, just picking a random one) or support anything they endorse, I don't expect people who are offended by what I do to support me in any way. For similar reasons I boycott verizon wireless, vivendi, the RIAA, all corporate bailout banks, BP, and a slew of other things I despise. It's also why I spend almost every penny I can on games supported by valve. I am a human, I can make my own choices in life.

 

That said, I am a pragmatist, and I understand that the logical utopia that we all should live in is about as likely as my puppy growing up into a gilded unicorn. And that Bioware would be shooting itself in the foot to alienate a group of potential customers over a few megabytes of data. If it brings in that extra $2000 a month in player subscriptions for bioware, I'm okay conceding the need for those offended to -uncheck- a box at install. Making us all check one to install the same sex options, however, is going too far with the pandering. I'll cut ignorance a little slack, but in this day in age, I just sort of wish we would take the warning labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Fishybob

[MusedMoose]

Or a band name.

 

"Aaaand now.. Presentiiiiing... MUSEDMOOSE and the MECHANICS of AFFECTION!!!"

:D

Featuring our new hit single, "Blizz Loves You (And Explosions Too)"!

 

Until this is actually implemented or we have more specific information about implementation and how it will affect our characters, we're still in the same position we've been in--except we now have a timeline (this year, yay) and we know they're making these specific SG storylines (which I sincerely appreciate).

 

How this affects current gameplay is still an important question that I think needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.

Agreed. This is why I said asking about the mechanics of affection would be a good idea for the Q&A thread. Since this is keeping some people from playing their characters, it would be very helpful to know how SGRs are going to be implemented.

 

Also, I particularly like your points about how utterly ridiculous it would be to not be able to play a homosexual (or even bisexual, now that I think about it) until level 50. That's not something I've seen brought up before, and it's an excellent point. It would make SGRs feel like a Legacy benefit, and I truly don't think BioWare intends that.

 

Simple answer: the fact that this even needs to be considered a sensitive subject makes me seriously sad about the state of humanity. I understand if a developer doesn't want to include it for whatever reason (however misguided) but the fact that we even need to discuss hiding it is silly. This is life we're talking about. Just ignore the stuff you don't like, and go on with your lives.

I love how many posts in these threads make me want to high-five people through the internet. Well said, man.

 

there is an option on install to not include the bytes of data that will offend people's interpretation of their religions. It's called Cancel. If having this sort of content offends so drastically that one can't stand to have even the potential of it on their computer, well, don't install the game.

But that would require reason, logic, and foreknowledge of the game's content! Silly Kioma, did you forget you're on the internet, where such things are frowned upon?

 

Kidding, of course. While SGRs have brought certain aspects of this to the fore, I really do think it's ridiculous when people expect to have games catered to their preferences. Making suggestions or requests is fine, but there's never a guarantee that the devs will implement what you want. Hell, I've said many times which companions I want available for SGRs, but I don't think that means BW is going to do what I say. If I get what I want, awesome. If I don't, I'll accept it and see how I feel.

 

But making demands of the devs, regardless of what's being demanded? Not cool. Never cool.

 

[steps off soapbox]

[gekko_s]

"MUSEDMOOSE and the MECHANICS of AFFECTION!!!"

 

Bioware's next epic game project?

[Feline_Jaye]

I'll reiterate my opinion (mainly because I want to subscribe).

 

I hope all SGRA content will be patched in so that it is evident from level 1.

I hope there will be not only SGRA but general SG content (ie. same gender flirts).

 

I don't think there should be a toggle, if there is then I think it should turn all romance off or all romance on. If they insist on a separate toggle for OG and SG content then the toggle should have four options: Show no romance, show heterosexual romance, show homosexual content, show all romance content.

 

Deal with it

[Zandilar]

Just thought I'd offer some advice to the thread in general, given my recent experiences.

 

Don't get too attached to an OGR companion who you'd like to see as SGRA.

 

ME3 spoilers follow...

 

Recent experience with ME 3 shows that you can't always predict what they're going to do. Kaiden is available to male Shepards, while Ashley is not available to female Shepards as a love interest. A lot of Ashley fans were very disappointed by this (including me), and it didn't help that Bioware was so hush hush over who the s/s LIs in ME3 are.

 

 

I am aware that Austin is not Edmonton, but I can see the same kind of thing happening here. So just... don't buy heartbreak.

[AlyxDinas]

I think that ties into the idea that BioWare wants to make sure that the option, if present, is not simply there for the sake of being there but is, rather, something applied to characters they feel it makes sense for. Which is certainly their prerogative, I think.

[Zandilar]

I think that ties into the idea that BioWare wants to make sure that the option, if present, is not simply there for the sake of being there but is, rather, something applied to characters they feel it makes sense for. Which is certainly their prerogative, I think.

 

It is. Which is why I'm telling people not to get too attached, because they'll probably be disappointed.

 

Using an SWTOR example... If Bioware thinks it makes sense for Kaliyo to be bi, then my Agent will be without an s/s choice if Kaliyo's only option available. This would be exacerbated if I got to attached to say, Temple.

[MoogleNut]

Just popping my head in during a lull in my Mass Effect 3 haze (I've had like 6 hours sleep in the last 2 days - so very not good when I've gotta get up at stupid o'clock with the nephews hehe)

 

Happy to see we've finally got some information, even if it's not as detailed as we'd hoped.

Still, at least we have a general 'when' as well as some inidcation that the dev's have taken our discussions into account. (PleasebeKiraTempleWatcherTwoMakoRishaVetteandwhichevermentheguyswantPwettyPweesewithacherryontop)

 

Another poster suggested dark side Jaessa as the female Sith Warrior s/s option, my problem with this (apart from wanting Vette) is that would unfairly penalise light side players - not only would Vette not be available, but we'd be forced to play dark side in order to get the romance. Not that I would object to Jaessa, but if she does become available then the light-side/dark-side restrictions should be lifted.

 

For now I'll keep playing my existing characters as I have been - a first run though the story and setting them up to be my crafters/mules for when sgras are put in. Hopefully we'll get more info on the hows so that those who don't like re-rolling can make their plans too.

 

As for ME3,

 

 

No Ash, really? That is a surprise considering all the tension and Liara's obvious jealousy - not that I'd ever cheat on the blueberry goddess. Traynor is sooooo getting a singleFemshep just for her /sigh I'm even thinking of finally playing broShep for Steve - I just want to hug him every time we speak that man really needs some happiness.

 

 

Right, time to get the boys ready for school then more ME3 for me - after a long nap methinks

[LeJay]

Yes, that's true. We can guess some things - Nadia will more likely than not be the F/F option for Consulars, since she's the one female companion.

 

We can also try to guess going for the companion's personality - I think that Tharan probably wouldn't be a M/M option because his devotion to Holiday wouldn't let him build a true romantical relationship with another person. Sex, of course, he has itches that Holiday can't stratch, but I thin it stops at that. Wich leaves Zenith or Iresso.

 

Pleaseletbezenithletbezenithletbezenith

 

Of course, it may boil down to random factors - maybe the writer noticed the S/S community has hopes for a particular character more than others. Hell, it may as well make no sense except for the fact that the writer finds it hot/funny/cute. For all we know, the IA's writer has a thing for FemAgent/SCORPIO.

 

(That's my headcanon and I'm sticking with it.)

[Uluain]

The way that the Panel spoke in regards to this implied that the writers had already determined who the same-gender romance companions were when writing all the companion content from the beginning.

 

It is likely that our discussions are under the eye of at least someone with the ear of the writing team, and that our preferences are noted. The Valentine's Week romance polls on the Facebook page probably gave more feedback on the popularity of various companions.

 

So while they seem already to know who they have intended to be available for same-gender content, the material is still being written and input may influence that. We don't know, but it can't hurt to discuss who we would like.

 

I don't plan on romance with my Jedi. My Mirialan brother and sister grew up in monastic cicommunities anyway with their own disciplines, and celibacy is probably second nature. I don't know my Zabrak well enough to comment yet, but so far he only has Qyzen which is a big old NO.

 

My two Sith and my Bounty Hunter are cyphers to me as yet. My Marauder took of Vette's collar in a moment of weakness and immediately regretted it. To actually have an affair with Vette would be deeply unsettling for her. My Assassin has only met Khem Val so far, who is another big old NO.

 

My Bounty Hunter likewise only has met Mako so far, who is okay but female. I know him better in some ways than I would like, and any relationship that has him in it is by that fact alone going to be deeply disfunctional. Not a happy camper. He'd do best with a Sith mystic who could capitalize on his unwholesome fascination with the Dark Side.

 

Bringing me to my Gunslinger. And Corso. Now Corso Riggs is a companion that seems to many players to be obviously straight, so this may well be a case of a companion predestined for opposite-gender development only, which would be disappointing.

 

So far the only other companions I have met are Bowdaar and Risha. I'd accept Bowdaar as a runner-up, but I think he's actually far less likely a candidate. We'll have to wait and see.

[LeJay]

Corso has to be the M/M option, though. The only other male options are Bowdar, who is a wookiee and Guss Tuno who is a Mon Calamari (or, as I like to call them, fish thingies). Unless they add a new companion Corso is pretty much going to let me touch his Torchy in a near future.

 

Or we could have M!Smuggler/C2-N2.

[Suaine]

Corso has to be the M/M option, though. The only other male options are Bowdar, who is a wookiee and Guss Tuno who is a Mon Calamari (or, as I like to call them, fish thingies). Unless they add a new companion Corso is pretty much going to let me touch his Torchy in a near future.

 

Or we could have M!Smuggler/C2-N2.

 

They could also be adding at least one new companion per class. Unlikely, but certainly in the realm of possibility.

 

In an case, I think Corso is about as queer as you could be while still in a straight-only romance - he strikes people as straight because of some pervasive stereotypes, because they look at his chauvinist upbringing and cannot see beyond that, but I've seen his romance with the female Smuggler (on youtube) and both his backstory, his attitudes and his behavior toward the female Smuggler make me go "oh, of course he's one of us".

 

Sure, I could be looking at it from a completely different PoV than the writers, but I think chances for him are pretty good, personally.

[LeJay]

They could also be adding at least one new companion per class. Unlikely, but certainly in the realm of possibility.

 

In an case, I think Corso is about as queer as you could be while still in a straight-only romance - he strikes people as straight because of some pervasive stereotypes, because they look at his chauvinist upbringing and cannot see beyond that, but I've seen his romance with the female Smuggler (on youtube) and both his backstory, his attitudes and his behavior toward the female Smuggler make me go "oh, of course he's one of us".

 

Sure, I could be looking at it from a completely different PoV than the writers, but I think chances for him are pretty good, personally.

 

I was probably too busy making "awwwwns" to notice it, but you do have a point. His homeworld sound very conservative, so hiding that he swing both ways doesn't sound too far-fetched. In any case, I'll wait and see - I'm still rooting for my sweet little Corso, but if the writers think they can come up with a companion that will make me forget him I won't stop them.

[thomasmeadows]

Can Bowdaar be Bi?

[LeJay]

Can Bowdaar be Bi?

 

He can, but I doubt he will. With some notable exceptions (Garrus and Tali, and only because they're ridiculously popular, and even then they're not even that alien-ish) Bioware romances usually go for the humans or very, very human-like aliens. Cat man or not, Aric Jorgan looks very much like a rugged male, for example.

 

While I'm sure Bowdar owns a very charming personality, he's not what I would call Bioware Romance Material. But hey, they could surprise us.

 

Or not.

[gekko_s]

Don't forget that the story patch can bring new companions as well, so for some classes the assumed SGR companion can be a new one.

 

Actually, my wild guess is that the patch will bring one new available companion to all classes, either exclusive or shared with some other classes. The patch will probably aim to bring new story content not just for SGR but for all. Assuming every class will have one male and one female SGR companion, that companion will for some classes be an existing one, and for some a new one.

Edited March 7, 2012 by gekko_s