Harnessed Darkness\Shadows - The most OP talent in the game

[AMKSED]

Don't let them get their Lightning/Tele Throw off with their Adrenals/Relics popped. L2Stun. It's not hard.

[AMKSED]

Then you can combine Shroud too and it's gg against a lot of classes.

 

Sins have a lot going for them.

 

IMO, their Tank spec should NOT be doing that damage. You spec Tank/Tank Hybrids for suvivability. It's silly it's spec'd for damage. (On our server most sins have a tankish build in PvP).

 

Their DPS Trees should though, yet as it stands right now if I run in to a DPS sin it's a free kill and they don't do much damage which to me, stands at a current design flaw with the tree and needs to be severely looked at.

 

That's not a tank spec btw. It's hybrid, tank skills with Stalker gear on.

[Astarica]

I know that marauders are capable of that. But let me know when a marauder brings any utility to hes team compared to a sin. Perma guard+taunts, aoe slow, debuffs and a grip.

 

Im not saying marauders are a bad class, not by far. When played by a good player and with decent gear they are one of the best classes right now. Somewhere in the top 3. And tbh annihilation marauders are the only thing that really really gives me trouble in a 1v1. I'm just saying that a spec with so much "staying" power and utility as darkness shouldn't bring that much dmg to the table. It's a tanking spec after all. It shouldn't allow you to fight for the top places on the dmg meters.

 

I'm not campaigning for a darkness nerf. I just think maybe they should give them a bit more "tankiness" while reducing their dmg potential. Something like some better defensive cooldown somewhere high in the tree instead of that pos darkward.

 

The sad part tho is that besides darkness we really don't have anything else going for us. Both deception and madness are pos when you actually run into people who have a clue and focus you and keep guard / taunt for their squishies.

 

PS: a decent part of a marauders healing is done to the party. Therefor not very useful to hes survivability. All the healing a sin does is only to himself. It's the same concept as padding the dps meters with aoe vs single target.

 

Hihi and to the guy above: do you really play a sin? Dark charge reduces melee dmg bonus by 5%. That's trash and erm... that's all. Too bad we rely on trash so much to do our burst/dmg.

 

Thrash does less DPS than Wither on single target. Energized Shock just isn't as great as people think it is. Dark Charge does affect Assassinate but very few players will see more than one of those attack before they die so the damage reduction is generally irrelevent.

 

The Darkness Assassin can pretty much do everything in the game except healing, and that includes stuff like running the Huttball, and generally do all those things very well. There are some occasional matchup issues (1v1 against Marauder in Huttball comes to mind) but those are relatively isolated cases that aren't hard to avoid.

[Dharagada]

Complaining about a tank spec'd and dmg. WHA!?!!

 

5% flat dmg from stance. Yea I suppose stats have nothing to do with it cause my sinTank rolls with no crit no pwr nor surge, Im stuck with def, shield, and absorb. HUGE!!! damage difference. let me say that again HUGE!!!!.

 

Sure i could roll with no tank gear in a tank spec but that is just stupidity.

 

 

 

Troll or just really bad player...taking all bets!

 

I'm staying out of the whole is Harnessed Darkness OP thing, however you may want to give tanking a go in DPS gear sometime in pvp, tanking stats aren't that great (at best ok) and usually the trade off is worth it for most tank specs. Again talking PvP just to be clear.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Dharagada

[Xavory]

Every top Tank sin/shadow knows their dps is too high for the amount of survivability they have. They are gonna ride it/defend it until the day it gets nerfed, just like every Operative/Scoundrel did.

 

Every time someone says "the game isn't balanced around 1v1", remind them that the reason Bioware levied the ONLY major live class nerf to date was because of the way it functioned in a 1v1 situation.

[AMKSED]

Every top Tank sin/shadow knows their dps is too high for the amount of survivability they have. They are gonna ride it/defend it until the day it gets nerfed, just like every Operative/Scoundrel did.

 

Every time someone says "the game isn't balanced around 1v1", remind them that the reason Bioware levied the ONLY major live class nerf to date was because of the way it functioned in a 1v1 situation.

 

That's because Scoundrels and Operatives were 3 shotting people in less than 6 seconds.

 

If you die to a hybrid Shadow/Assassin in 6 seconds then you are doing something very wrong.

[Hethroin]

That's because Scoundrels and Operatives were 3 shotting people in less than 6 seconds.

 

If you die to a hybrid Shadow/Assassin in 6 seconds then you are being punted off a tall building.

 

Fixed.

[Astarica]

Every top Tank sin/shadow knows their dps is too high for the amount of survivability they have. They are gonna ride it/defend it until the day it gets nerfed, just like every Operative/Scoundrel did.

 

Every time someone says "the game isn't balanced around 1v1", remind them that the reason Bioware levied the ONLY major live class nerf to date was because of the way it functioned in a 1v1 situation.

 

I think the DPS should be nerfed some and I'm a Darkness Assassin.

 

People don't seem to understand being overpowered doesn't mean you win all the time. The house wins something like 52% of the time in Blackjack. Keep playing against the house and you'll eventually lose all your money. The Darkness Assassin doesn't always win either but he wins more than 50% of the time for sure, and keep fighting him long enough and you'll lose all your money. I guess it's to balance the fact that the Deception Assassin loses more than 50% and will lose all his money in the same scenario.

 

Even when you look at say a Marauder in Huttball played in a certain way to pad the stats, you'll notice that guy probably died 5 or 6 times even when he is only fighting on the terrain that's very advantageous to him. Marauder on side area in Huttball is probably the biggest imbalance in terms of 1on1 and even there they do not win 100% of the time, and they certain do die. But 8 out of 10 times they'll spank you in their preferred terrain and the two times you do win out of 10 doesn't make up for the other 8 times you lost.

[Panzerbase]

Every top Tank sin/shadow knows their dps is too high for the amount of survivability they have. They are gonna ride it/defend it until the day it gets nerfed, just like every Operative/Scoundrel did.

 

Every time someone says "the game isn't balanced around 1v1", remind them that the reason Bioware levied the ONLY major live class nerf to date was because of the way it functioned in a 1v1 situation.

 

Why did you interview every Top sin/shadow? Matter of fact how do we even know who is at the top? Or wait do we just toss out hyperbole due to the fact our won play is poor?

[Turn-XGundam]

OP my assault vanguard laughs at that dps, i can easily get that burst using my vanguard(powertech can get it as well since they are mirrors to us). i can do it while in tank stance.

[cycao]

Every top Tank sin/shadow knows their dps is too high for the amount of survivability they have. They are gonna ride it/defend it until the day it gets nerfed, just like every Operative/Scoundrel did.

 

Every time someone says "the game isn't balanced around 1v1", remind them that the reason Bioware levied the ONLY major live class nerf to date was because of the way it functioned in a 1v1 situation.

 

then Bioware should put a penalty for darkness/kinetics when it comes to using DPS gear problem solved. I wouldnt really call the ONLY major nerf a nerf, Ops/scouns can still do redic in warzones dps or healing. They have already done enough changes to this AC. You cant expect them to make this tree crap without making the other "real" dps worth playing, right now they are not and that is why you see more and more of these tanking sins/shadows coming out of the woodwork.

[Xavory]

The damage needs to be adjusted, I just hope that Bioware doesn't knee jerk gut the spec like they did with my Operative.

 

Perspective: Imagine if they nerfed Harnessed Darkness and Project by 20%, nerfed the heal from a stacked Force lightning by 20%, and reduced the duration of Wither/Slow Times snare by 50%.

 

Then you would have an Idea of the nature of the Operative nerf relative to Sins.

[Cyannez]

Ok. You both go it a bit wrong and i apologize for that. I probably didn't make my point clear enough. I don't think HD needs to be nerfed or that is the "cause" for anything. I don't think the darkness is especially op compared to other classes. Tho i think it's very strong.

 

My entire point is that darkness does too much dmg for a tank spec and for the utility it brings. Especially perma guard which is insane on healers and it's by far the best ability in the game atm.

 

I don't want darkness to be nerfed. I would like it to be tweaked with more emphasis on the tanking part and less on the dmg. Considering that the only defensive cd that our tank tree gives us (darkward) is borderline pathetic in pvp i would like some improvements in that area.

 

And it all stems out from darkcharge tbh. We don't have any drawback strapped on it except 5% melee dmg bonus reduction. Like we really care how much our trash is hitting for :/ All other classes give up more to use their "guard" stance.

 

The second point i was making is that if they would tweak darkness a bit in the right direction maybe they could do the same with deception. If they would strap a bit of utility on that spec it would make even more than playable. Even making our charges cost less (like 30-50) energy would be a bit of improvement since i always thought charge changing (stance-dancing, seal swapping w/e) makes for a more interesting and deeper gameplay. But i'm ranting already

 

In the end i would like to mention the numbers issue. Yes i can go over 300k in almost every full time wz. If i get the "crowded voidstar corridors" i can get 450k or higher. Yes some of it might be irrelevant aoe dmg but in the end, it's a lot of dmg coming from a taking spec.

[Grubfist]

The damage needs to be adjusted, I just hope that Bioware doesn't knee jerk gut the spec like they did with my Operative.

 

Perspective: Imagine if they nerfed Harnessed Darkness and Project by 20%, nerfed the heal from a stacked Force lightning by 20%, and reduced the duration of Wither/Slow Times snare by 50%.

 

Then you would have an Idea of the nature of the Operative nerf relative to Sins.

 

Oh god.

 

Project is ALL their single-target threat D:

[Astarica]

The damage needs to be adjusted, I just hope that Bioware doesn't knee jerk gut the spec like they did with my Operative.

 

Perspective: Imagine if they nerfed Harnessed Darkness and Project by 20%, nerfed the heal from a stacked Force lightning by 20%, and reduced the duration of Wither/Slow Times snare by 50%.

 

Then you would have an Idea of the nature of the Operative nerf relative to Sins.

 

Wither used to not give a stack of HD or snare at all, and did less damage, so that's roughly on par with what you described if not worse (using Shock to generate HD is actually very costly).

 

Of course back then nobody speced 31/0/10 for PvP either. 27/0/14 was pretty strong, though not nearly as overwhelmingly powerful. The buff to Wither making it both the best HD generator and the most crippling snare in the game is probably what pushed Darkness over the top.

 

For what it's worth prior to Wither buff I tried most of the common specs and even some stuff that probably don't work like 23/18/0 or 21/20/0 or even 20/21/0. HD just wasn't that powerful when the only thing that generated it was Shock because Shock requires a boatload of Force to use.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Astarica

[Xavory]

then Bioware should put a penalty for darkness/kinetics when it comes to using DPS gear problem solved. I wouldnt really call the ONLY major nerf a nerf, Ops/scouns can still do redic in warzones dps or healing. They have already done enough changes to this AC. You cant expect them to make this tree crap without making the other "real" dps worth playing, right now they are not and that is why you see more and more of these tanking sins/shadows coming out of the woodwork.

 

What you should have said was " You shouldn't want them to make the tree crap".. because we certainly CAN expect them to, because they've done it before. The reason people play the Tank spec is because 1. They enjoy it, or 2. It's overpowered. The other trees being crap is relative to the OP'd tree. Infiltration/Deception are good tree's when compared to other DPS classes, just not when you compare it to Dark/Kinetics.

[Astarica]

What you should have said was " You shouldn't want them to make the tree crap".. because we certainly CAN expect them to, because they've done it before. The reason people play the Tank spec is because 1. They enjoy it, or 2. It's overpowered. The other trees being crap is relative to the OP'd tree. Infiltration/Deception are good tree's when compared to other DPS classes, just not when you compare it to Dark/Kinetics.

 

I'd say Deception is generally a bit worse than the average DPS spec just due to its lack of survivality. Certainly Marauder DPS tree easily outclass Deception since both might do comparable DPS but a Marauder is much harder to kill than a Deception Assassin.

[Xavory]

Wither used to not give a stack of HD or snare at all, and did less damage, so that's roughly on par with what you described if not worse (using Shock to generate HD is actually very costly).

 

Of course back then nobody speced 31/0/10 for PvP either. 27/0/14 was pretty strong, though not nearly as overwhelmingly powerful. The buff to Wither making it both the best HD generator and the most crippling snare in the game is probably what pushed Darkness over the top.

 

For what it's worth prior to Wither buff I tried most of the common specs and even some stuff that probably don't work like 23/18/0 or 21/20/0 or even 20/21/0. HD just wasn't that powerful when the only thing that generated it was Shock because Shock requires a boatload of Force to use.

 

Agreed. It's probably a combination of A) the buff , and B) People have learned how to gear for Damage and are generally better geared than a month ago.

 

Best thing that we can do( I say WE because I have a 31/0/10 BM Shadow), is hope for a minor adjustment away from damage and towards survivability and threat gen. I've been on the pointy end of Gabe's Phantom Scoring System, it's no fun.

[Astarica]

Agreed. It's probably a combination of A) the buff , and B) People have learned how to gear for Damage and are generally better geared than a month ago.

 

Best thing that we can do( I say WE because I have a 31/0/10 BM Shadow), is hope for a minor adjustment away from damage and towards survivability and threat gen. I've been on the pointy end of Gabe's Phantom Scoring System, it's no fun.

 

Well from the PvP point of view, Wither's utility is just off the charts. A single Wither at the right time in Huttball or Voidstar leads to a goal or an undefended door. It's hard to see getting more side benefits as long as Darkness has the ability to snare the enemy team basically forever. It's almost backwards that Darkness spec which least needs a snare gets the most powerful snare in the game.

 

I think originally HD is just meant to let you have a counterattack at 10m so you're not a sitting duck against ranged if they managed to put some distance. But right now as Darkness is pretty much the premier 10m DPS in the game. If you stay at this distance, there's literally no class that can beat you at this range.

[Xavory]

I'd say Deception is generally a bit worse than the average DPS spec just due to its lack of survivality. Certainly Marauder DPS tree easily outclass Deception since both might do comparable DPS but a Marauder is much harder to kill than a Deception Assassin.

 

I don't completely agree, but it's an interesting discussion.

 

I think the better discussion would be: What can Bioware do about all the "Unused" trees?

 

Think about it, Almost every Advanced Class has a tree that is VERY rarely used because it underperforms. There are exceptions, but it would be wonderful if Bioware would breath life into those trees no one plays.

[cycao]

What you should have said was " You shouldn't want them to make the tree crap".. because we certainly CAN expect them to, because they've done it before. The reason people play the Tank spec is because 1. They enjoy it, or 2. It's overpowered. The other trees being crap is relative to the OP'd tree. Infiltration/Deception are good tree's when compared to other DPS classes, just not when you compare it to Dark/Kinetics.

 

I would say that the DPS tress are a little weak due to well light armor, but having never played other DPS classes other than commando (yep grav round). The darkness tree makes up for this (obviously). This may be a bad example but when I did a respec to deception, I could not do anything when dueling to my PT or Mara buddie (tore them apart with darkness).

 

I love this class and in the 4 other classes i have played I just do not find any other class fun to play. I have realized I only wish to play this one class because I want to know it inside and out and I feel right now i do.

[Antipathize]

Harnesses darkness can be interrupted with stuns or knock backs. The healing is the equivalent of one or two extra hits, and the perceived survivability from it probably comes from the sin blowing all his cooldowns and using it at the same time.

 

If you can't stop a sin from using HD, then learn to play. Also large damage numbers come from aoe stat padding, which is completely irrelevant to actual damage to single targets which is what really matters.

[Astarica]

I don't completely agree, but it's an interesting discussion.

 

I think the better discussion would be: What can Bioware do about all the "Unused" trees?

 

Think about it, Almost every Advanced Class has a tree that is VERY rarely used because it underperforms. There are exceptions, but it would be wonderful if Bioware would breath life into those trees no one plays.

 

Well it boils down to that players don't magically forget what classes are easy to kill bewteen engagements unlike mobs. On PvE you might be able to balance survivality against DPS, but this doesn't work in PvP. There's no class considered a powerhouse in PvP that is easy to kill (note that Sorcs are very hard to kill on Huttball due to terrain involved, even though the class's survivality is generally low). Deception would need something that at least discourages enemy from just focus firing on them. Right now there's absolutely no drawback to focus fire on a decent DPS/low survivality class. Marauder's Cloak of Pain/Undying Rage are good examples of CDs that discourage focus fire.

[Reveillere]

Harnesses darkness can be interrupted with stuns or knock backs. The healing is the equivalent of one or two extra hits, and the perceived survivability from it probably comes from the sin blowing all his cooldowns and using it at the same time.

 

If you can't stop a sin from using HD, then learn to play. Also large damage numbers come from aoe stat padding, which is completely irrelevant to actual damage to single targets which is what really matters.

 

I pull 400k+ every warzone without aoes on my darkness, as deception I cant even get close to that

[Astarica]

Harnesses darkness can be interrupted with stuns or knock backs. The healing is the equivalent of one or two extra hits, and the perceived survivability from it probably comes from the sin blowing all his cooldowns and using it at the same time.

 

If you can't stop a sin from using HD, then learn to play. Also large damage numbers come from aoe stat padding, which is completely irrelevant to actual damage to single targets which is what really matters.

 

You can do a 2 stack HD every 6 seconds. So you have a stun or KB (which usually won't hit a Darkness assassin because he will keep you from getting close) ready every 6 seconds? I wonder how anybody with a casting time ever beat you casting stuff that can be interrupted by normal interrupt methods.