Gs/snipers, 100% useless for competitive play

[Kattla]

My first toon was a sniper, lvl 50, a couple champion pieces. Haven't played her for nearly two months, so she's a bit undergeared of course. And me not remembering all the hotkeys either. I didn't expect to rock with her last night either, and i didn't.

 

So i sit there behind my flashy red screen, and squeezes off a few shots, all of which seem to hit for 50 - 70% less then what the tooltip says. Even if i consider half of that to be bad gear on my part, and the other half good gear/damage reduction on the opposition, i can see what people mean by the pain of having weapon damage go through all defensive measures.

Funnily enough, i think i do more damage with my full healing specced sage.

And that my best defense as a sniper are that i am regarded almost harmless by the enemy, so they don't bother killing me..

 

That was my own experience, however, i think a decently skilled and geared sniper can put out a decent load of pain. I was not just up for that job after 2 months of not playing my sniper.

 

But to be more constructive. I think snipers range are way too short for them to be called long range dps. 5m over others are like nothing in this pvp, given that a lot of

ppl are quite mobile.

 

- 50m if crouched/in cover would be neat. This for some skills, not all. Since it is easy

to make a sniper loose line of sight anyway, i don't think it would be OP. Perhaps a skill high up in the sharpshooter/marksman tree.

 

- 50% more accuracy if in cover too. Maybe a prone position to further improve range and accuracy. Prone with armor penalities, of course.

 

- All but the melee skill usable when standing. Perhaps an accuracy penalty for some

of them. Or am i the only one who is frustrated by seeing the "you must be in cover to use this skill" ?. Channelled skills would still require standstill, of course.

 

- Able to roll into another cover position from cover.

 

- Having smoke canisters provide actuall smoke. Well, not real smoke, but something that

confuses the player too, not only reducing accuray.

 

- An option in the preferences to turn on a range circle. Just a dim, traced circle that shows a specific range. Or make the range numbers more easy to spot.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Kattla
adding.

[Altruismo]

My first toon was a sniper, lvl 50, a couple champion pieces. Haven't played her for nearly two months, so she's a bit undergeared of course. And me not remembering all the hotkeys either. I didn't expect to rock with her last night either, and i didn't.

 

[...SNIP...].

 

Yeah.. maybe before we go and push to have the Sniper/Gunslinger ACs seriously redesigned, start with lobbying to get some of the major crippling bugs fixed.

Start with all the silly stuff that prevents entering cover/crouch: Roots, messed up terrain/positioning.

Remove the need to be in cover when using cover-pulse, and instead make cover pulse usable at any time and drop you into cover when you use it.

Make Evasion and Shield probe actually do something in PVP.

Sort these issues out, and things are looking up - the class is good, it's just haunted by crippling (exploitable) bugs.

[caravaggio]

I am convinced that people who claim GS/Sniper doesn't need some love fall into one of the following categories...

 

1. They haven't hit 50 yet.

 

2. They play on a server where the majority of the other PvPers don't know what they are doing.

 

3. They are lying and have probably never even played the class.

 

I admit, I'm not the best PvP guy around, but I do okay... and my GS isn't completely useless, but it is much more towards that end of the spectrum when playing against anyone who has a clue what they are doing.

 

BW admits that our greatest defensive ability (roll into environmental cover) is gimped in PvP and not working properly. If that is so then take cover in place should give us the same defensive bonus at a minimum.

 

The bugs need to be addressed.

Tweaks need to be made.

 

BW should consider moving some of our damage from weapon to tech, better escapes, and allowing at least one more of our bread and butter damage dealing abilities to be used out of cover (or all of them at reduced damage).

 

No GS/Sniper thinks we should be able to kill every class every time 1v1, but we do want to stand a chance against anyone who is paying attention.

[Desgarden]

The three biggest issues are, imo,

 

1. that specs are total crap under certain conditions

 

marksman - as soon as a tank is involved the damage is a bad joke because marksman damage has to pass ALL available defenses in-game (sorcs and BHs do not have those restrictions)

 

lethality - a baseline dispel destroys the whole spec

 

 

2. Cover conditions

if entrench is on cooldown or the battle moves away (e.g. often in Huttball) cover becomes a royal pain in the bum combined with the cast time of the marksman tree when people are aware that a simple root prevents you from using cover.

 

 

3. CC

The cc package isn't bad but not great either. Why an immobile class has a melee range stun is beyond me...of course bh and sorc get the ranged version.

 

This and the amount of resolve our cc generates is just a bad joke

 

 

 

And I was wondering where's Gaidax...

 

hehe I thought the same. I am still waiting for one of his pearls of wisdom like: "Snipers are great if left alone" (which class doesn't) or "sit far in the back and use your range" (oh yeah, the problem starts when someone sees the red blinking light and decides to go for you) or "dispel is no issue for dispels because healers have better things to do then dispel" (oh yeah...why spam heals when you can remove the damage source with 1 button press) etc

 

I miss those "oh really, Gaidax?!" moments.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Desgarden

[richardya]

Root is as powerful as force speed or leap or grapple or pull. It is the most underrated ability in Huttball and useful to mess up attackers en route in Alderan. In Voidstar GS owns. Edited March 4, 2012 by richardya

[Nyysjan]

Root is as powerful as force speed or leap or grapple or pull. It is the most underrated ability in Huttball and useful to mess up attackers en route in Alderan. In Voidstar GS owns.

 

Sniper root breaks on damage, so unless there is nobody else on the target, it is barely worth using, if there is nobody else on the target, they make a goal 5 seconds later, or pass the ball to a friend who goals, or break the root (Powertech AP spec has root removal/speed buff, not sure of other classes).

Not saying root is not usefull, but it is hardly powerfull enough to even make a dent to all the issues snipers have, and claiming it's as usefull as grapple or pull or force speed, is beyond hilarious.

[richardya]

Sniper root breaks on damage, so unless there is nobody else on the target, it is barely worth using, if there is nobody else on the target, they make a goal 5 seconds later, or pass the ball to a friend who goals, or break the root (Powertech AP spec has root removal/speed buff, not sure of other classes).

Not saying root is not usefull, but it is hardly powerfull enough to even make a dent to all the issues snipers have, and claiming it's as usefull as grapple or pull or force speed, is beyond hilarious.

 

You can damage for 2 seconds without it breaking. A root in the fire will not have people damaging the carrier. A root before the goal line, 2 seconds is an eternity. This is especially true because people generally give the carrier full resolve and root bypasses resolve, but you made a fair point. Not trying to be argumentative.

 

In Alderan, I constantly use root to root people running to attack a side turret when I am at mid and we control it. It leaves him alone and easy pray for the guys at mid with nothing to do.

 

Also, Assassins and knights are totally kept out of the fight, they have virtually no range abilities.

Edited March 4, 2012 by richardya

[goulet]

2 dots+explosive probe+cull, followed by a 2nd cull that is hitting with a damage bonus from 3 dots (explosive probes 3 second one). Granted you have to be lethality and on your toes.

 

used to hate sniper till i started sitting back and helped attack targets who were already being focused. Not saying they don't need improving in some areas, but its not a nail in the coffin right now. Yeah it sucks when people get close to you, but you're a sniper, its supposed to suck.

[Desgarden]

You can damage for 2 seconds without it breaking. A root in the fire will not have people damaging the carrier. A root before the goal line, 2 seconds is an eternity. This is especially true because people generally give the carrier full resolve and root bypasses resolve, but you made a fair point. Not trying to be argumentative.

 

In Alderan, I constantly use root to root people running to attack a side turret when I am at mid and we control it. It leaves him alone and easy pray for the guys at mid with nothing to do.

 

Also, Assassins and knights are totally kept out of the fight, they have virtually no range abilities.

 

Assassins and Knights often parry/deflect your shots - leg shot included. Maybe you should mention that as well

 

And sorry, inflating a 2 sec root (it is usually not more, not less) to be SUUUUUCH a great thing is grasping for straws. Don't get me wrong, it can help now and then. But it is not that great at all.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Desgarden

[Noctournys]

2 dots+explosive probe+cull, followed by a 2nd cull that is hitting with a damage bonus from 3 dots (explosive probes 3 second one). Granted you have to be lethality and on your toes.

 

used to hate sniper till i started sitting back and helped attack targets who were already being focused. Not saying they don't need improving in some areas, but its not a nail in the coffin right now. Yeah it sucks when people get close to you, but you're a sniper, its supposed to suck.

 

Cull only gains a damage bonus from corrosive grenade and corrosive dart. None of the other DoTs count.

 

edit: and on the subject of leg shot - yeah, you can damage them for 2 seconds after the root.. but because of the global, you get .5 seconds to land damage, which means you need to have an instant lined up or you dont get anything at all.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Noctournys

[Twenynge]

You can damage for 2 seconds without it breaking. A root in the fire will not have people damaging the carrier. A root before the goal line, 2 seconds is an eternity. This is especially true because people generally give the carrier full resolve and root bypasses resolve, but you made a fair point. Not trying to be argumentative.

 

In Alderan, I constantly use root to root people running to attack a side turret when I am at mid and we control it. It leaves him alone and easy pray for the guys at mid with nothing to do.

 

Also, Assassins and knights totally keep those classes with no range out of the fight.

 

I'm not jumping in the middle of this debate except to say that our root is not terribly useful due to the fact that it breaks on damage. Especially considering two of our specs are heavily DoT reliant, you are pretty much guaranteed that it lasts two seconds and no more. What's worse, the slow in the engineer/sabotuer tree is also a DoT, meaning our snare prevents the use of our root and vice versa. Even if you somehow avoid breaking your root, you can be sure some mouth breathing force user will pounce immediately thus breaking the root, preventing you from gaining any distance, and thus ensuring your untimely death.

 

With regard to the ability to damage the rootee for two seconds without worry of breaking the root, the previous poster is discounting the fact that 1.5 of the two "free" seconds is taken up by the global cooldown, meaning you can really only cast one of two incredibly weak instants with no travel time. Not worth the risk...

[richardya]

And sorry, inflating a 2 sec root (it is usually not more, not less) to be SUUUUUCH a great thing is grasping for straws. Don't get me wrong, it can help now and then. But it is not that great at all.

 

I am probably making it to be more than it is, but... it is the only CC that bypasses resolve and in HUttball I have found it to be a pretty big deal. In a 1 V 1 it is no use because of the reasons stated but most WZ are not 1v1. You all made valid points though.

[Twenynge]

You can damage for 2 seconds without it breaking. A root in the fire will not have people damaging the carrier. A root before the goal line, 2 seconds is an eternity. This is especially true because people generally give the carrier full resolve and root bypasses resolve, but you made a fair point. Not trying to be argumentative.

 

In Alderan, I constantly use root to root people running to attack a side turret when I am at mid and we control it. It leaves him alone and easy pray for the guys at mid with nothing to do.

 

Also, Assassins and knights totally keep those classes with no range out of the fight.

 

I'm not jumping in the middle of this debate except to say that our root is not terribly useful due to the fact that it breaks on damage. Especially considering two of our specs are heavily DoT reliant, you are pretty much guaranteed that it lasts two seconds and no more. What's worse, the slow in the engineer/sabotuer tree is also a DoT, meaning our snare prevents the use of our root and vice versa. Even if you somehow avoid breaking your root, you can be sure some mouth breathing force user will pounce immediately thus breaking the root, preventing you from gaining any distance, and thus ensuring your untimely death.

 

With regard to the ability to damage the rootee for two seconds without worry of breaking the root, the previous poster is discounting the fact that 1.5 of the two "free" seconds is taken up by the global cooldown, meaning you can really only cast one of two incredibly weak instants with no travel time. Not worth the risk...

[GingerMagician]

Most of what is posted regarding the defencies of gunslingers is true.

 

What I find unbelieveable is that on switching to dirty fighting that while the spec has a lot better mobility and aoe damage without needing to be in cover you basically have 5 clicks and then the rest of the time until you die you are spamming burst of bolts because your energy is not enough to go into cover and even fire off 1 ability.

 

How can you have a spec that works for 20 seconds of the warzone and then you cant use it again until you either die or spent 15 seconds recuperating?

 

Is there any other class which runs out of energy like this?

 

Totally incredible that such an untested and unusable spec could make it into the live game.

[DrekorSilverfang]

I was going to post a detailed response to this about how wrong the OP is. Then I realized I like being overpowered and the less people know about the sniper the better. Let's all whine about marauders instead.... yesssssssssss. muahahahahah.

[Nyysjan]

I was going to post a detailed response to this about how wrong the OP is. Then I realized I like being overpowered and the less people know about the sniper the better. Let's all whine about marauders instead.... yesssssssssss. muahahahahah.

 

can i have some of whatever it is you're smoking?

[Desgarden]

I was going to post a detailed response to this about how wrong the OP is. Then I realized I like being overpowered and the less people know about the sniper the better. Let's all whine about marauders instead.... yesssssssssss. muahahahahah.

 

Thank you for your constructive and informative contribution. We all agree now that the class is totally op.

[Vyndeta]

I was going to post a detailed response to this about how wrong the OP is. Then I realized I like being overpowered and the less people know about the sniper the better. Let's all whine about marauders instead.... yesssssssssss. muahahahahah.

 

lol i wish i could do this and be quiet but i always face palm whenever i look at one of these threads. I like using the im "im underpowered" excuse whenever i kill someone 1vX or when i top damage/Kbs in warzones by a large margin anyways. alright im going to the majority buff gunslinger/snipers we are useless atm

Edited March 4, 2012 by Vyndeta

[Xeraz]

Didn't bother reading all this qq.

 

In response to the title, you are wrong.

[Xsorus]

Realistically, people won't cure your dots most of the time as Lethality spec Sniper.

 

Wasting a GCD curing random dots off people when you can easily out heal the damage is pointless. Not to mention, Most snipers will be applying those dots on everyone anyway so chances are you actually getting the right target is slim.

 

Now in competitive play, people will cure them, cause it'll be much easier to call out and to mark the sniper.

 

But in pug play, the only time you really have trouble with it is in a 1v1 with someone who actually can cure (Commando/Scoundrel for example), As a Leth sniper the chances of you kill those 2 classes in a 1v1 is rare...

 

Even still, Snipers don't have the damage nor the utility of a Marauder, they're certainly not able to take as much damage as a Marauder either, and since the marauder is basically the "melee" version of the sniper (aka all damage tree's) it's kind of silly to take a Sniper.

 

The Sniper class itself needs a full rework period... It serves zero role in this game.

[NoTomorrow]

Snipers should be the only class able to penetrate sorc bubbles and tank guard shields. These mechanics need a hard counter in this game. And before you cry OP, remember, that LoS still exists.

[Mrtomie]

People who are supporting cover and saying gunslinger isnt underpowered are full of **** or barely pvp with their class or still under 50.

 

I'm valor 65+, close to full BM

 

My aimed shot does LESS dmg to a tracer missle with a 1 second higher cast time and a cooldown, and less dmg than a force lightning.

 

Take a merc: he gets a free 35% armour reduction buff plus the debuff from grav rounds for a total of 55% armor penetration.

 

A sniper has shatter shot: 20% debuff and...for 2 talent pointsa further 20% armour piercing FOR ONE ABILITY ONLY which has a long cast time and a cd of 15 seconds.

 

Anyone claiming to get 5k crits consistently is straight lying off their ***. I will get a 5k crit on only like a 12k hp sorc with no bubble and all my adrenal/relic popped.

 

Hunkerdown is a terribly circumstantial move since u get LOSed all day on high-cast time "burst" moves.

 

Any mobility with sabo/DF hybrids take 50+ energy to get off a single combo.

 

Our "great" cc has some of the highest resolve gains in the game. Dirty Kick gives 80% resolve as well as flashbang.

 

Anyone claiming gunslingers do great burst on tank classes is lying off their *** or not even lvl 50. The armor reduction and automatic 10% deflection chance with lightsabers make any ranged attacks inferior to other dps trees not just the whole class.

 

There is absolutly no reason to play a GS over any other class.

 

I can play my slinger well and am always carry my own on WZ, but if i were a sage with similar gear I would dominate not just carry my own.

 

QFT! I play well on my 50 SS GS but anything I do, any other class can do and with more survivaliblity.

 

Love how all the haters say we have range attacks, we have burst, we have so many CCs. blah blah blah

 

- Dirty Kick, by the time we get any distance our opponents are already in our face.

- Flash bang, sucks if you're DF or Sab. DOT DOT DOT

- Oh hey we're range, yet other players have leap, pull, sprint, etc. and can get to us before we can get one spell off.

- I'm in a good spot to cover and burst......nevermind, LoS LoS LoS LoS.

- Need to use my pushback spell.........wait...wait...wait...need to get into cover first....I'm being CC'ed....wait....wait...dead

[Evuke]

true unfortunately, snipers are not welcome in my pvp groups or my pve groups, it's like playing with a man down.

 

operatives aren't welcome either for the same reason unless they are healing specced

Edited March 4, 2012 by Evuke

[Kurfer]

I just run around as lethality spamming dots...I don't help my team win but don't really feel like I give a flying f_uck; as long as I top the damage meters I enjoy putting a bitter taste on peoples mouth about the class.

 

In the end i'm doing my part, eventually BW will be forced to fix them because of jerks like me.

 

I wouldn't hold my breath though, this IS the worst PvP team in history of MMO's.

 

Bunch of pony tail nerds that have already failed their families once (unemployment from Warhammer).

[Mrtomie]

I just run around as lethality spamming dots...I don't help my team win but don't really feel like I give a flying f_uck; as long as I top the damage meters I enjoy putting a bitter taste on peoples mouth about the class.

 

In the end i'm doing my part, eventually BW will be forced to fix them because of jerks like me.

 

I wouldn't hold my breath though, this IS the worst PvP team in history of MMO's.

 

Bunch of pony tail nerds that have already failed their families once (unemployment from Warhammer).

 

I use my XS Flyer ability and watch my spaceship fly by for added coolness