No more color restrictions on crystals ?! Really ?

[terminova]

This precisely sums up the "feelings" I have about this whole thing. It is like Alliance in WoW crying because Horde has cooler armor sets and Blizzard caving in and allowing them to wear each other's armor.

 

When you chose a side, you made a CHOICE. You were told what the restrictions would be...it is part of what lends flavor and CHARACTER to your decision to go Light or Dark. Removing the restrictions on these colors will result in a bunch of gloppy gobbledygook resembling My Little Pony more than Star Wars.

 

Next everyone will be crying about Jedi can't wear coolsitharmor and IWANTTHATSPACESHIP. If you want to have fun with colors go to an art supply store and knock yourself out. Can't we have a little MEANING and CHARACTER in this game ffs?

 

I think your slippery slope fallacy looks like it's falling down a sheer cliff.

Edited March 2, 2012 by terminova

[smexymage]

I like the change. Not like a sith physically couldnt fit a blue or green crystal to their saber, they just chose not to, which players can also do.

 

Its choice, and I think its a positive change.

[EvanSnowWolf]

I think your slippery slope fallacy looks like it's falling down a sheer cliff.

 

I think your Fallacy Trope is lacking a counterargument of its own.

[Vecke]

No, far from it. As was discussed above, the traditions alone would result in the MAJORITY of force users sticking with the traditional colors. In this game it will be exactly the opposite, and THAT is the problem.

 

Not sure why you think the majority will be going with the opposite of the traditional colors. Every person in this thread arguing against this change won't suddenly start using opposite colors. I certainly won't be using opposite colors. My wife won't. My regular grouping friends won't.

 

1 subset of players will be doing this, but they will be countered by evil jedi using blue sabers which does conform to tradition.

 

I'm just not sure where you're getting that the majority of good jedi want to use red crystals. That's a pretty big assumption there. There will be some, but there will be just as many that actually use the restriction removal as an opportunity to conform to tradition (which is currently forbidden by the restriction).

[Lord_Scythe]

I genuinely believe this was a poor (but well intentioned) idea to begin with and I'm glad to see that BW is adaptable enough to remove it.

 

There were originally no restrictions to saber colors in early beta. You can even do a search and see that the Dev team stated that there would not be alignment restrictions in several interviews.

 

Then the "purists" came out in force and put up a poll before the wipe and they ended up edging out others. They were very loud and wanted color restrictions so Bioware caved. Now they are caving to the back lash.

 

I don't like the color restrictions of any sort but I really hate it being based on alignment. If they were going to make restrictions it should have been faction based.

 

Since the game does not allow swapping of sides a Dark Jedi is still a Jedi and a Light Sith is still Sith. I mean if we want to be purists a Dark Jedi would become Sith and a Light Sith would become Jedi. So based on a purist point of view it should have been Blue/Green Jedi and Red Sith regardless of alignment.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Lord_Scythe
missed a word

[Vecke]

There were originally no restrictions to saber colors in early beta. You can even do a search and see that the Dev team stated that there would not be alignment restrictions in several interviews.

 

Then the "purists" came out in force and put up a poll before the wipe and they ended up edging out others. They were very loud and wanted color restrictions so Bioware caved. Now they are caving to the back lash.

 

I don't like the color restrictions of any sort but I really hate it being based on alignment. If they were going to make restrictions it should have been faction based.

 

Since the game does not allow swapping of sides a Dark Jedi is still a Jedi and a Light Sith is still Sith. I mean if we want to be purists a Dark Jedi would become Sith and a Light Sith would become Jedi. So based on a purist point of view it should have been Blue/Green Jedi and Red Sith regardless of alignment.

 

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

[terminova]

I think your Fallacy Trope is lacking a counterargument of its own.

 

No need for one.

[Altyrell]

There were originally no restrictions to saber colors in early beta. You can even do a search and see that the Dev team stated that there would not be alignment restrictions in several interviews.

 

Then the "purists" came out in force and put up a poll before the wipe and they ended up edging out others. They were very loud and wanted color restrictions so Bioware caved. Now they are caving to the back lash.

 

I don't like the color restrictions of any sort but I really hate it being based on alignment. If they were going to make restrictions it should have been faction based.

 

Since the game does not allow swapping of sides a Dark Jedi is still a Jedi and a Light Sith is still Sith. I mean if we want to be purists a Dark Jedi would become Sith and a Light Sith would become Jedi. So based on a purist point of view it should have been Blue/Green Jedi and Red Sith regardless of alignment.

 

Except, Dark Jedi doesn't mean Sith, as a Dark Jedi can be a Dark Jedi without being or becoming a Sith.

[Vecke]

This precisely sums up the "feelings" I have about this whole thing. It is like Alliance in WoW crying because Horde has cooler armor sets and Blizzard caving in and allowing them to wear each other's armor.

 

When you chose a side, you made a CHOICE. You were told what the restrictions would be...it is part of what lends flavor and CHARACTER to your decision to go Light or Dark. Removing the restrictions on these colors will result in a bunch of gloppy gobbledygook resembling My Little Pony more than Star Wars.

 

Next everyone will be crying about Jedi can't wear coolsitharmor and IWANTTHATSPACESHIP. If you want to have fun with colors go to an art supply store and knock yourself out. Can't we have a little MEANING and CHARACTER in this game ffs?

 

Just because I'm in favor of removing one restriction that was incorrectly implemented (should have been faction based, if anything) doesn't mean I want every restriction removed.

 

Keeping poorly implemented restrictions is just as bad as removing all restrictions.

[Altyrell]

No, far from it. As was discussed above, the traditions alone would result in the MAJORITY of force users sticking with the traditional colors. In this game it will be exactly the opposite, and THAT is the problem.

 

Except, if Star Wars were real, and people on Earth could be Jedi, I really REALLY doubt people would allow to be told "You can only use Green or Blue Lightsabers". I mean, if that was the only ones being made, that would be 1 thing, but in the end, other Colors would have to be made and then we would end up having a Diverse amount including Red.

 

 

Oh, and Red does NOT only/always mean Evil. Heck, I can name several reasons why a Good Person would use Red and a Evil Person use Blue or Green.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Altyrell

[Angror]

Im kinda sad by this, i chose to play a sith war through on the light side and it was nice having the only blue/green sabre around. Now everyone is gonna have em. Almost made your light/dark choices trivial now.

[Altyrell]

Almost made your light/dark choices trivial now.

 

How so? Cause to me, it means that you can have you Character go either Alignment and not have to be restricted from Colors.

 

I mean, a Jedi/Sith could want to use Blue Lightsabers because it represents ice, water, sky, sadness, royalty, cold, calm, trueness.

 

A Jedi/Sith could want to use a Green Lightsaber because it represents nature, growth, hope, sickness, health, greed, and envy.

 

Just as a Jedi/Sith could want to use Red Lightsabers because it represents aggression, anger, love, passion, beauty, heat, fire, beauty, hunger, leadership, danger, blood, volcanoes, courage, failure, drug intolerance, death.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Altyrell

[Toonimator]

The 'slippery slope' argument is baseless as it entirely neglects the blaster-wielding classes, which have absolutely zero reason for having any kind of morality-based restrictions on their colors. And, unlike Jedi/Sith, there's no way for anyone to immediately spot their alignment unless they're in combat. And even then, some special abilities of those classes have their own color blasts, regardless of the crystal in the gun.

 

So the entire 'alignment ID' aspect falls apart there. Right now, there's restrictions, but they only make 'sense' regarding the Force classes. So why keep them at all, when they hamper the blaster classes?

 

Not to mention that even if restrictions remained, dark Jedi and dark Sith could still run around with yellow or orange. With those two colors in the mix, keeping others restricted doesn't make sense. If they HAD to keep any kind of restriction, red and blue would be the most balanced (one for each alignment), and only if they applied solely to the Force classes.

[Zahh]

This is a great choice!

 

Whats next? PANDAS?

[Angror]

How so?

 

As far as i know the crystals were the only thing that showed end game what you were. Light side or Dark side. All the gear i always found that was restricted to light or dark was low level.

[Angror]

This is a great choice!

 

Whats next? PANDAS?

 

we call em wookies in this game.

[RowanThursday]

As I think someone said else-thread about non-force user crystal usage...

 

"Why does my blaster care if I'm a b----?"

 

Same applies, surely, to lightsabres. A crystal is a shaped piece of inorganic matter, used to focus a beam of plasma, and, as a side effect of that, imbuing the beam with its colour.

 

I work with 35mm film. It's composed of lots of very tiny light-sensitive crystals. I've never yet encountered *any* of them making moral choices, or exercising moral censure against photographers of whose ethics they disapprove.

 

Obviously, yes, Star Wars is science-fantasy... but moral-aligned crystal usage isn't even consistent with the game's *internal* lore.

 

Crystal availability and colour scheme- I'm quoting- or likely paraphrasing, the TOR Wiki- is down to the Sith *tending* to use synthesised crystals, which *tend* to be red, whilst the Jedi mostly use naturally occurring ones, of which the majority are blue and green.

 

In the 'current' galaxy at the time of the game, both the Jedi and Sith orders are very active and fully staffed, and turning out a lot of crystals, one way or another. In a galaxy with a lot of trade... crystal usage will be very much down to personal preference.

 

Of course there are 'traditions'... but some follow them more than others.

 

Darth Vader *lost* his original blue light sabre at the end of episode three, having been disarmed (I'm so sorry) by Obi-Wan. At this point, the Jedi temple was in flames, and any surviving Jedi would be very unlikely to have a civil and helpful chat with him about where he might be able to pick up a new crystal for his sabre. The chances are, either the Emperor gave him a new sabre, or else directed him to the parts to make one... and Palpatine likes red sabres.

 

For all we know, though, this is just because he happened to buy a boat load of cheap rubies from the Jawas years ago, and has been selling them to his various apprentices at a profit ever since.

[Evray]

Except, Dark Jedi doesn't mean Sith, as a Dark Jedi can be a Dark Jedi without being or becoming a Sith.

 

This is true. But the problem with that idea also goes along with the fact that the original Jedi on Tython fought against their own allies who had succumb to the Dark Side.

 

Dark Side Jedi in this game, by definition should be exiled from the Jedi Order, be stripped of their status and lightsabers and be on a sort of 'probation' with the Jedi.

 

Its one thing when your usually an arrogant jerk but your still over-all a good Jedi.

 

Shoving people out airlocks and killing people who don't deserve to die warrant more than just a few negative points for companion affection.

 

If Star Wars was reality and you walked up to Satele Shan with dark red eyes and dark side corruption, and then gave her a half ***** explanation as to why you killed someone who was defenseless, you'd probably be sent to the spice mines of Kessel immediately after a long session of attempts to 'redeem' you.

 

Light side Sith are actually more logical. I mean, goodness is looked at as a weakness and I think a lot of characters would treat you differently if they all knew about your goody two-shoedness. But the Sith are all about the strong, power. If you were lightsided, helped the empire and were strong they wouldn't care.

 

Kill innocent people and such on the Republic side is against the law, and is also against the Jedi Code.

 

Back on topic. I thought it would be fitting if green and red were the restrictions.

 

Purple being confined to the Empire was a bad move, considering the first purple saber in the series was used by a Jedi. Also, they gave us a crappy light blue saber in return.

 

We've seen a decent amount of varied color crystals on both the sith and jedi sides. But rarely do we see Jedi with red sabers or Sith with green. Blue, purple, yellow, orange, dark/light blue etc are more common for everyone. Where as green was something more iconic to the Jedi (Luke, Yoda, Quigon) and red was something used by pretty much most Sith.

 

I think if they had faction restricted green and red that would of been fine. But I don't have a problem with everyone gets a chance at every color. I don't really mind, it just means I get a crack at other lightsaber colors now.

[PostalTwinkie]

Oh, and the lore supports sith with green/blue sabers and jedi with red ones.

 

^ This.

 

There is Star Wars cannon that has the two factions using different colored sabers.

[maxetius]

Exar Kun used a blue saber.

 

So seriously, this is idiotic. What does it matter if another character is light or dark? Because that's all it used to tell you.

[Knockerz]

Good riddance. The light/dark side restrictions were absurd and should have always been like in kotor where you could use any crystal color minus a few exceptions.

[Lord_Scythe]

Except, Dark Jedi doesn't mean Sith, as a Dark Jedi can be a Dark Jedi without being or becoming a Sith.

 

I said true purists. Purists base stuff only directly from George Lucas which in this case means movies I-VI. Tell me in these movies which Jedi is a Dark Jedi? From what I recall of movies I-VI the two I know of become known as Darth Sidious and Darth Vader.

 

No Jedi I know of can use force lightning or Force Choke.

 

I don't agree with this view just stating it as an example.

 

I can accept no color restrictions and prefer this option.

 

I would even accept, though grudgingly, Jedi green/blue and Sith red.

 

I hate the alignment restriction as it makes zero sense.

 

My favorite movies are IV-VI. I can tolerate II and III. Tor is roughly 3000 Years before the movies so canon from the movies is irrelevant.

 

Again Bioware had no intentions of adding the color restrictions based on Devs interviews during beta. They also said there would be hundreds of colors many that have never been seen in the movies. They caved and are caving again! Bioware seems to to go with the majority on issues without any independent thought.

 

My theory on lack of colors is they did not have time to get them in.

[Altyrell]

I said true purists. Purists base stuff only directly from George Lucas which in this case means movies I-VI. Tell me in these movies which Jedi is a Dark Jedi? From what I recall of movies I-VI the two I know of become known as Darth Sidious and Darth Vader.

 

No Jedi I know of can use force lightning or Force Choke.

 

I don't agree with this view just stating it as an example.

 

I can accept no color restrictions and prefer this option.

 

I would even accept, though grudgingly, Jedi green/blue and Sith red.

 

I hate the alignment restriction as it makes zero sense.

 

My favorite movies are IV-VI. I can tolerate II and III. Tor is roughly 3000 Years before the movies so canon from the movies is irrelevant.

 

Again Bioware had no intentions of adding the color restrictions based on Devs interviews during beta. They also said there would be hundreds of colors many that have never been seen in the movies. They caved and are caving again! Bioware seems to to go with the majority on issues without any independent thought.

 

My theory on lack of colors is they did not have time to get them in.

 

Agreed cause if we were to stick with only the Movies, then we would have to remove everything that wasn't in the 6 Movies.

 

Goodbye Orange, White, Yellow & Black, Red & Black, Green & Black, Sith Pureblood, Chiss, Rattataki, Korriban, Corellia, Tython, Nar Shaddaa, Nal Hutta, Ord Mantell, Sith Empire, Sith Imperial Ships, Republic Ships, Miraluka, Imperial Agents, all of the Sith Force Using Players, Voss, Quesh, Ilum, Etc.

 

Though, I would say that they are actually going back to what they originally intended and said, about not having Restrictions on Colors

Edited March 3, 2012 by Altyrell

[Vincire]

I've grown used to the restriction since Beta but I feel that the restriction was a bit unnecessary. The more customization options players have the better. Besides, my Light Sith Warrior received a number of nice Red crystals mailed to him he could never use.. Edited March 3, 2012 by Vincire

[Sarfux]

the kind of crystal you have has NO effect on who you fight for. It is a reflection of personal preference and who YOU are.

 

In the movies, you saw light with blue, yellow, all those "good" colors

 

and saw bad with red...the "bad" colors

 

I think it's step in the right direction of giving players what THEY want. They continue doing things like this, this game will just go nowhere but up