Pekish Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) I think choise are never casual... emp have the tendency to use Red for many reason red is the color of blood and fire, danger (have u ever seen the street signal?) it always have a strong violent vibe... erotism etcetc blue/green color of the sky/water and grass has a calming vibe. I am not saying the movie give a clean cut personally I don't give a **** about what the movie prove one way or another. I only think that it would be intresting to tight the color with an emotion obviolsy you could use different one it doesnt turn off ur lightsaber but matching the color with the side u play should give you a bonus you can still choose to go opposite color but you would pay a little debilitation (no bonus) Edited March 2, 2012 by Pekish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Scythe Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Ya you and every other player in the game. That is the whole point of mmorpg to make a hero... What else would the point be in playing? Don't know about you but I would rather be the Hero than Boon the local Bantha poodoo cleaner or bob the steamed womp rat vendor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I won't even get into the debate about "cannon"(oh wow, Lucas signed off on a bunch of stuff to make money, and that makes it real, whatever), the simple fact is that IN THIS GAME we need something to separate and give character to the two alignments. The color crystals are the MAIN, and in fact only really distinctive, way to do this. Removing the restrictions will just make a huge mess, destroy the identity of alignments as it has been established in the game, and frankly reflect poorly on both Bioware's will to make the game what they want it to be, and their priorities. While you make a good point about the DS/LS mechanic in general, I don't think lightsabers were ever a good way to give it meaning. It simply doesn't make sense from any perspective (lore or otherwise). Even for the people that find lore important, it was never about good and evil. It was factional. Anakin used a red saber on dooku and a blue saber on Obi Wan. So, I'm glad they're removing the mechanic. It increases options and is no longer a hindrance to players that aren't Jedi. As to your feedback about the LS/DS mechanic having meaning, that's valid, but there are plenty of better ways to give this meaning. For example, I think unlocking alignment specific abilities is a far better approach. That's not faction-based; it's alignment based. Luke was a jedi, and yet he choked Jabba's guards. If you read the ROTJ novel, it's because he was basically toying with the darkside. There are other ways they could give this meaning, but (IMO) lightsaber color was never a good choice for that. I don't think removing that restriction says anything about Bioware's devotion to their vision. It says more about their willingness to adapt and let go of bad ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belcorwyn Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Snipped extremely well thought-out and organized post full of logic, sense, and downright correctness. /Applause Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancrizans Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 That is the whole point of mmorpg to make a hero... What else would the point be in playing? Don't know about you but I would rather be the Hero than Boon the local Bantha poodoo cleaner or bob the steamed womp rat vendor! Which has nothing to do with the fact that everyone being the hero will result in an inordinate and unrealistic number of each faction having inappropriate looking color crystals. You really need to slow down and read more than one sentence of a post before you respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Scythe Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 If you even bothered to read my post you would notice I said TO DIFFERENTIATE ALIGNMENTS, not to differentiate FACTIONS. It is your reading comprehension that is a very big fail. What does it matter who is light or dark. As someone said in a previous post a light side Sith is not going to advertise he is light side nor is a dark side Jedi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinybum Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 All I can say is I am going to laugh really hard when all these Impies in their badarse looking outfits come running at me waving blue and green lightsabers in Voidstar. Nooo! If you do that, someone's bound to complain that the laughing messes with your reaction time and it makes PVP imbalanced! Note to self: call a synthweaver and order a custom PVP clown suit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Scythe Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Which has nothing to do with the fact that everyone being the hero will result in an inordinate and unrealistic number of each faction having inappropriate looking color crystals. You really need to slow down and read more than one sentence of a post before you respond. LOL I am forced with my light side Sith to use blue or green. The imbalance already exists. It is not inappropriate to use any color crystal you want. There is no rules that say any faction has to use a certain color crystals any where in Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) LOL I am forced with my light side Sith to use blue or green. The imbalance already exists. It is not inappropriate to use any color crystal you want. There is no rules that say any faction has to use a certain color crystals any where in Star Wars. George Lucas himself said there was no meaning behind the color of the light sabers, and that the color was nothing more then a personal preference. So yeah, there is no rule in the Star Wars movies, nor in the EU till the Rule of Two gets implemented. Edited March 2, 2012 by Wolfeisberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CadeAssant Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Saber Crystal Restrictions to LS and DS are not Canon, thank you Bioware for correcting the mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Scythe Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 George Lucas himself said there was no meaning behind the color of the light sabers, and that the color was nothing more then a personal preference. So yeah, there is no rule in the Star Wars movies, nor in the EU till the Rule of Two gets implemented. Yes I know. Yet people still argue its canon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancrizans Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 LOL I am forced with my light side Sith to use blue or green. The imbalance already exists. It is not inappropriate to use any color crystal you want. There is no rules that say any faction has to use a certain color crystals any where in Star Wars. How is it an "imbalance" that you are "forced" to use a color appropriate to your alignment? Alignment /= faction. Everyone supporting this change simply wants to have their cake and eat it. You want to play Republic...but you want to make dark side choices...BUT you still want to use a blue crystal...(or whatever). Regardless of what "lore" you cite or "rational" arguments you make, the fact remains that having RED as an indicator of "The Dark Side" and blue/green as indicators of "The Light Side" are both deeply entrenched in both the visual style and the ideology of Star Wars...and also make a LOT of sense from the perspective of how people seem to be oriented towards certain colors based on personality/mood/psychology whatever. This is a HUGE piece of Star Wars identity they are getting ready to rip out, and I don't think doing it for the sake of giving people more cosmetic options makes even a shred of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Scythe Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 saber crystal restrictions to ls and ds are not canon, thank you bioware for correcting the mistake. +1 qft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancrizans Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 +1 qft Lol I love how you guys curse Lucas to the skies when he makes Greedo shoot first or makes Jar Jar Binks a perpetual character in the last three films, but when he says color has nothing to do with alignment, it is "Oh ya Lucas says so so it MUST be true!". How convenient. /snicker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Scythe Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 How is it an "imbalance" that you are "forced" to use a color appropriate to your alignment? Alignment /= faction. Everyone supporting this change simply wants to have their cake and eat it. You want to play Republic...but you want to make dark side choices...BUT you still want to use a blue crystal...(or whatever). Regardless of what "lore" you cite or "rational" arguments you make, the fact remains that having RED as an indicator of "The Dark Side" and blue/green as indicators of "The Light Side" are both deeply entrenched in both the visual style and the ideology of Star Wars...and also make a LOT of sense from the perspective of how people seem to be oriented towards certain colors based on personality/mood/psychology whatever. This is a HUGE piece of Star Wars identity they are getting ready to rip out, and I don't think doing it for the sake of giving people more cosmetic options makes even a shred of sense. You need to reread the posts here proving it is not a basis for alignment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancrizans Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 You need to reread the posts here proving it is not a basis for alignment! You need to reread mine explaining why I disagree with those posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 How is it an "imbalance" that you are "forced" to use a color appropriate to your alignment? Alignment /= faction. Everyone supporting this change simply wants to have their cake and eat it. You want to play Republic...but you want to make dark side choices...BUT you still want to use a blue crystal...(or whatever). Regardless of what "lore" you cite or "rational" arguments you make, the fact remains that having RED as an indicator of "The Dark Side" and blue/green as indicators of "The Light Side" are both deeply entrenched in both the visual style and the ideology of Star Wars...and also make a LOT of sense from the perspective of how people seem to be oriented towards certain colors based on personality/mood/psychology whatever. This is a HUGE piece of Star Wars identity they are getting ready to rip out, and I don't think doing it for the sake of giving people more cosmetic options makes even a shred of sense. Visual style of the movies, that is it, but not the ideology. When George Lucas said that colors mean nothing, just a preference, that takes away your ideology argument. You are putting in an ideology into the movies that George Lucas never created. Also, since this game is a part of the Expanded Universe, it should follow the lore of the expanded Universe. And in the Expanded universe, the color of the saber means nothing, it is just a preference. heck, you might as well argue that there are more then 2 Sith, cause you know there were only 2 Sith in the movies and the ideology of the movies is that there were only 2 Sith , with no information ever given about there ever being more then 2 Sith at a time in the past, just that there are always 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RycheMykola Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Apparently, you're not much of a Star Wars fan. Color has-never-been-nor-will-it-ever-be restricted to morality. Lucas himself has confirmed that there is no direct link. The only lore basis for the restrictions was that, in the time of TPM, AotC etc., Sith couldn't get their hands on natural crystal supplies, and had to use synthetic crystals. Synth crystals (Luke used a synth crystal in RotJ, too, btw) are created by channeling the force through a forge. In the case of darksiders, this creates a crimson-red crystal... but not all synth crystals are red -- nor are all the sabers of Sith red. Certainly, the fact that the Sith in the TOR timeline favor purple just as much as red is proof of this. Frankly, the limits in TOR make absolutely no sense as implemented in the game. They neither preserve the 'look' of the films, nor do they have any basis in the lore. You would argue that color is tied to morality as if picking up a green or a blue saber as a darksider would cause it to explode in my hand. Even in the films, time and again we are shown that darksiders can use 'light' colors (Anakin/Vader with blue throughout Ep. III, Vader ignited Luke's green saber in Ep. VI). Similarly, lightsiders can use red... as in the case of Anakin picking up Dooku's saber to finish him off with. *** HI THAR. MY NAME IZ EXAR KUN, ONE OF THE MOST BAD-*** SITH LORDS OF ALL TIMES (YOU CAN TELL SINC I USE ALL CAPS TO POST). I'D JUS LIK 2 JUMP IN HERE AND POINT OUT DAT I USED A BLUE SABRE. TY. DATS ALL I WANTED. <3 TO MY HOMIES IN EMPIR. *** Thanks, Exar. Getting back on topic, the simple fact of the matter is, there is no canonical basis or otherwise for the current crystal restrictions. They were, quite literally, something Bioware conjured out of thin air. And, what's worse, they don't even preserve the look of the films, instead forcing many Jedi to abandon green/blue, and many Sith to forsake red. If you wanted to see more Sith using red, and more Jedi using green/blue as in the films, you should actually support dropping the restrictions. As it stands now, I believe you simply don't understand either the lore or the system we've got in game. -------------------------------- Just wanted to tack this on from later in the thread. This is how TOR's current restrictions would look if applied to Star Wars. *I take you now to the famous Temple Slaughter scene from Ep. III. Anakin is boldly walking up the Jedi Temple stairs, flanked by an army of clone troopers. He approaches the door, reaches into his robes, pulls out his blue saber, and prepares to ignite it when... ... nothing happens?* Clone trooper #1: Ruh-roh! Clone trooper #3: He's got er... troubles 'getting it up,' I guess? Clone trooper #1: Man, that's gotta create some tension in the sack with him and Padmomma or whatever. Clone trooper #2: Hehe... be quiet, I want to hear this. [Anakin COMM] Master, I have run into some issues. *The clones snicker.* [sidious COMM] What is it, my young apprentice? Are the Jedi dead? Is the temple aflame? [Anakin COMM] No, master my... lightsaber won't turn on. *More clone laughter.* [sidious COMM] Oh, I forgot to tell you. You can't use that lightsaber anymore because you're a bad guy now. Big oopsies on my part. Come back to my office and I'll give you a red crystal. *Anakin leaves in a huff.* Clone trooper #1: Ciggy break! AFK! Clone trooper #2: Hehe... stupid sith. Clone trooper #3: Shut up, dude... any more darkside points and you won't be able to use that blaster anymore. Wow. You are so utterly clueless as to lore. You're story example. Wrong on so many levels. Jedi on either side used what was available on hand for their saber. Even in lore it states this. Of course Anakin wasn't going to rush out and make a new saber. Red has and always will be associated as a symbol of the Sith. Were they forced to use it? No. Most chose that color though for there sabers. There are exceptions as always. IMHO, seeing a bunch of light side jedi running with red sabers is pretty dumb imho. What other way can the limit color choices? What about a Dark aligned Jedi/Sith getting a bonus for using a red color crystal? You can still use blue or green if you want, you would just lose some minor stats. But I 100% agree its a stupid idea to put this color restriction on non-force users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Scythe Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Lol I love how you guys curse Lucas to the skies when he makes Greedo shoot first or makes Jar Jar Binks a perpetual character in the last three films, but when he says color has nothing to do with alignment, it is "Oh ya Lucas says so so it MUST be true!". How convenient. /snicker LOL I have never ever said anything about either of those things. Though thanks for putting words in my mouth. ASSume much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Lol I love how you guys curse Lucas to the skies when he makes Greedo shoot first or makes Jar Jar Binks a perpetual character in the last three films, but when he says color has nothing to do with alignment, it is "Oh ya Lucas says so so it MUST be true!". How convenient. /snicker Mind showing proof of anyone here complaining about the Greedo, Jar Jar stuff? If not, then your argument here is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormey Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Cool, good news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulself Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Small question tho, with the colors being spread out to both sides dose this mean that colors like orange,yellow or purple will be more widely available at lower levels? i for one dislike having to wait till level 41 or so to get a purple lightsaber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewatcheruatu Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I was a little surprised by this, too. I think this is one area where BioWare should have stuck to their guns. Plus, it was kind of the only incentive that remained for playing a neutral character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 You need to reread mine explaining why I disagree with those posts. Yes, we know you that you like to disagree with the facts. We use facts, you use opinion and assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonimator Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Don't bother, they will keep hammering you with nonsense out of those book for profit rehashed gimmick novels they call canon these days. I'll grant you there's plenty of bad EU out there, but there's also a lot of good stuff. The prequels gave us a lot of 'canon' that's even more ridiculous than many of the novels, comics, and games. But you don't even have to go to the books or comics to find support for the no-color-restriction idea: you have but to look at Bioware's own previous Star Wars endeavor, KOTOR. Or is even KOTOR considered non-canon to you? Lucasfilm has a series of rankings for canon; TOR and KOTOR and the books are all considered canon, unless something in the films contradicts it. There's nothing in the films that says Jedi of 3,000 years earlier didn't use more colors than just blue, green and purple, nor that pre-Bane Sith only used red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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